Unlearning conflict avoidance - 11

[LuckyLuke]

Action - took an hour long walk with d16 today. Broached the shopping trip, but d16 said she didn't really need clothes and would be spoiled. I'll need to soften her up somehow...

Luke

[LuckyLuke]

Hej - the shopping trip with d16 is not clear now - she and I went for a walk yesterday, and I asked when we should go. She said it wasn't necessary, as she has enough clothes already, it would spoil her... I said that I could use some clothes too (shirts please!) but she thought I have enough already... so I not sure how to repackage this and make it happen. I think I have one more chance to sell the idea. Any thoughts? Is a worst case backup solution just to say I would like to do something fun with her and what does she suggest?

Tx - Luke

[MrBond]

Have you noticed that your daughter talks to you EXACTLY the same way your W does? You're letting her control the situation. Timing is everything when you're talking to her.

If she says that she doesn't want to be spoiled, look at her straight in the eye and tell her that you're her dad and it's your job to spoil her. When she tells you that you have enough clothes (which is weird coming from your daughter), tell her that you're going for something new and that's that.

Stop her from controlling you.

[sandi2]

Yeah, whoever heard of a teenage girl not wanting more clothes?

What about shopping for her gear for the mountain climbing?

[25yearsmlc]

Have you noticed that your daughter talks to you EXACTLY the same way your W does? You're letting her control the situation. Timing is everything when you're talking to her.

If she says that she doesn't want to be spoiled, look at her straight in the eye and tell her that you're her dad and it's your job to spoil her. When she tells you that you have enough clothes (which is weird coming from your daughter), tell her that you're going for something new and that's that.

Stop her from controlling you.

What he said. ..Luke, who the hell decides if YOU have enough clothes, You or your teen daughter...or your w...???

Sweetie, this is a pattern here, which YOU must change.

The only tiny question I have, (& it is only a tiny one)

is whether your d has some vague financial fears about the future, going on...I mean, what kid her age would say no to shopping for herself AND you? Does she think you guys are going broke, or that wife will, soon...???


I believe your d knows a divorce looms on the horizon, but maybe that's just me.

Tell her YOU NEED a NEW 'X' or "Y' and you wanted updating on the wardrobe, which you trust her judgment about. You know this b/c you travel to the USA a lot in professional circles....Be lighthearted but clear...if she insists on telling you what YOU need, insist back.

and if, by chance, she IS worried that HER needs won't be met later on, financially,
(or emotionally for that matter)

and this request of yours somehow triggered it, DIG INTO THAT, and

be reassuring to her that her needs will always be a priority in your mind. That way, the conversation can for sure end on a positive note.

Make sense? End each conversation with a reassuring comment, even if firmly delivered.

Kids need/want strong dads, Luke. You will never be confused with being a bully so don't even let that fear enter your mind. It's not in you to bully. And that's fine.

Just show the strengths we know you have, more, to your family.

THEY NEED IT FROM YOU. They always have.

[LuckyLuke]

Thanks, folks, for pointing out who decides here. And must lead. As a friend pointed out, it is important for d16 to see that I do not back down from my gift. And we can always go window shopping...

By way of explanation as to why a 16 year old would say no to a free shopping offer (and the following come from W rubbing off on d16): frugality and Calvinist morality and recycling is good. Oh, and d16 boycotts certain brands because of ethical reasons.

I don't think d16 has financial fears, but do think she senses a looming D. Something started to slip out of her the other day, but then she clammed up, even though I asked, though just once.

I understand the need to reassure. I am obligated by law to pay for her until she is 21, and will pay (knock on wood) for her education (much cheaper or even free tuition here in Europe).

Luke

[MrBond]

"By way of explanation as to why a 16 year old would say no to a free shopping offer (and the following come from W rubbing off on d16):"

Mindreading. You don't "know" why she said that.

"frugality and Calvinist morality"

Nothing wrong with that.

"and recycling is good."

It is.

"Oh, and d16 boycotts certain brands because of ethical reasons."

Which is also a noble thought. But these aren't the "cause" of why she simply didn't want to go shopping with you. It could very well be that she felt uncomfortable shopping with you alone because you had never done that before. Rather than blaming external influences, it could just be stemming from you.

Regardless of the reason why she says or does what she does, stop the blame and start doing things to change that attitude that she has of you.

[LuckyLuke]

Bond, I try not to be a blamer - my W does this a lot, and I disagree with it.

I find it hard to find the words/argument to persuade/sell her to go, and have come up with something like:

o I've thought a bit more about the shopping present
o yes, you are right, I don't normally like to go clothes shopping, but do enjoy finally getting and wearing nice clothing, also for her, and really would appreciate her help in finding a nice shirt or two for me
o we could also just window shop, and if there is something she likes, well, I do get to treat you every now and then
o I have no good counterargument to her not wanting to go or be spoiled, except that I'd like to have fun and spend time with her and thought she would enjoy this
o can I just order her to come with me "you must come with me, I insist"? Why should she?

I think there is just one chance left to make this sale and make the outing happen, but the psychology of it escapes me - thx -

Luke

[sandi2]

I'd like to have fun and spend time with her and thought she would enjoy this

I think this would be a winner!

[25yearsmlc]

I'd like to have fun and spend time with her and thought she would enjoy this

I think this would be a winner!

Agreed^^^...

You can inform her that you do really need HER advice about some clothing for you..and let a spontaneous gift happen for her, if it's organic & natural feeling. Certainly offer it at some point but without pressure...she may have sincere objections but if that's the case, geez, ask her about a charity she'd like you to donate to, in her name...?? I mean, I'm spitballing here...

But if the initial offer to shop or hang out really falls flat, what about saying

"well D, if you [refuse] to shop with me or for me, then what do YOU suggest WE do together for fun?"

NOT "if" or "will she" . The assumption must be that no question exists that you have the right to spend time with your daughter. You do, Luke. Why wouldn't she want to? BTW, my h has been working HARD on the R's he has with our d's. As you may recall, they both felt "abandoned" by h when he went off to Alaska.

He invited the older one (when she was at your d's age) to monthly lunches...he did not arrange it that way, but it happened several times before I saw some improvement and thawing in their R. But it did thaw.

I guess I can theoretically imagine her saying "no!" But is that realistic?? Even my d's, who had a reason for feeling left behind or 'ignored for 2 years" as my youngest said, would not have given him an outright refusal. Frankly it would be rude.

I mean, will she actually "refuse" to do anything with you? Since when?

If it really seems like it's an outright refusal , here are some random ways of pursuing time with her...

- perhaps you can directly ask her IF that is what is happening and if so, why.

AND OR

"d, it feels as if you are refusing to spend time with me and that hurts. I love you very much but it feels as if we've been ships passing in the day, not interacting nearly as much as I'd like...so what will it be??"

OR

"We have a lot of catching up to do" --

AND OR

"you're always going to be my d" and "you're always going to be endless fascinating to me so get used to it"

"so please, humor me, let's shop/visit a museum/go to a concert, X, Y, Z"....

Also, I think if you can make sure you compliment your d with authentic, specific comments that are positive about her. Not so much generic "you're great"

but more like "you're so 'artistic/smart/poetic/funny/beautiful" etc...and how much you enjoy spending time with her,

that she may come to believe even more that you are in the bleachers as her number one fan. (Specificity = believability)

When my dad was terminally ill, we discussed the afterlife and missing him/me.

He mentioned something about how he'd "always be cheering [me] on, from the bleachers" and that he was my "number 1 fan".

I never forgot that...