Stuck On You

[Wonka]

Raine,

I think what it comes down to is the ring isn't me. I've changed. It's from before.

I do get what you mean here. A lot like how people's tastes in clothes change over time. Bell bottoms, anyone!? Out with the old, in with the new. Some people get new wedding rings that reflect their preferences and it could be symbolic for you as well. It is something you may want to consider down the road. It is a personal choice.

It meant a lot to him that I asked him to be there when the baby was born. He didn't think I wanted him there. He was worried that he wouldn't feel the same way towards the baby as he did the other boys, but he did. He fell in love with him the moment he saw him. He is so in love with all the boys and such an amazing father. He is super involved with all of them. I told him I felt like the baby saved my life. I had to take care of me, because I was carrying him. He said that it just makes the baby even more special to him.

You could say that this baby is a DB baby! You're writing new chapters together in your new storybook and this kid is a part of this as well.

And I am having a very hard time feeling "done," because I want that decision to be from me. I don't like that there is a negative feeling there with me being pregnant. I don't like that he abandoned me during that time.

What is keeping you stuck in that place? What is it that's holding you up? Whatever it is, you might want to work through them by asking yourself: "My H will leave again if I get pregnant. Is it true?" With each statement or fear you have, end it with "Is it true". This is classic Bryon Katie. Wonderful writer!

He thought it was good that he moved out so me and the boys didn't have to see him coping and dealing with the depression. He worried about lashing out in anger at me or the boys. And he said he was useless. He just slept all the time. He said when he moved back in, he was still in the thick of the depression

This MLC stuff isn't kiddie pool stuff at all. There's no cure for this at all. The only thing is to just let the MLCer work through their depression at his/her own pace to the other side.
When things become Claritin clear, this is what we process post-MLC. Which is why have a hard time reconciling the chit we throw at our spouses with the real, true essence within us. Sometimes it isn't always fun when our empathy chips are back in full working order either.

This applies only to kitty-kitten MLCers. It does not apply to Jekyll/Hyde MLCers. They're just soooo deep in the abyss that there's no hope for them.

The main OW complained a lot to him. He never spent special holidays with her, never this, never that. Wanting him to move faster on his timeline. She is so clueless.

Those OWs/OMs are broken people as well which is why the MLCer engages in an affair with them. For me, my OW was just available for the taking. sigh Talk about timing! And GOOD thing that they're not DBers.

Buh-bye to XOW!!!!

[TL72*]

Is there a post or article that talks about the kitty-kitten MLC and the jekyll/Hyde MLC? I will look deeper and see if I can find it.

[Wonka]

TL,

Kitty-kitten MLCer and Jekyll/Hyde MLCers are terms were coined here by DBers to describe the different types of MLCers on the opposite ends of the spectrum. I am not sure if there's an "article" on these types that you can read up here or out on the 'Net. There have been posts here and there that brings up those two terms "kitty-kitten MLCer" and "Jekyll/Hyde MLCer."

[TL72*]

thanks Wonka, I did a search for it in the forum and found an old explanation that you had given which is helpful. This board is full of so much good information! I now know I have a kitty kitten.

"A Jekyll/Hyde MCLer is full of anger, uncontrollable rage, deep unhappiness, and irrationally thinks the LBS is out to get them so their actions are extreme such as gaslighting, engaging in a "gotcha" game with the LBS, and trying to hurt them in every conceivable way (legally, emotionally, financially).

A kitty kitten MLCer is low-level type of person who is deep into the fog, forgetful, spacey, may engage in occasional spewing, and usually does not engage in gamesmanship with the LBS. Most often the LBS can talk back at the kitty kitten MLCer with some well-aimed "truth darts" without any serious blow backs from the MLCer. The anger and rage aren't the predominant driving forces for the kitty kitten MLCer. Forgetfulness and spacey behaviors are at the forefront for the kitty kitten MLCer.

Hope this helps! "

[Raine]

Hey Everyone! I wanted to share some things that might be helpful for those looking at this thread for guidance on the stage I'm in right now with H.

I started reading the book "Not Just Friends." (Thanks Wonka!) This book has been so helpful for me. I'm feeling validated. Finally, I feel that my needs in all this are okay...well, more than okay. I feel that my needs are right and ordinary. Just as uR says, "I matter in this too." So two weeks ago I wanted H to read the intro of that book. But better than that, I found an article and sent it to him. It's called "Is it reasonable to want to talk about the affair?" by Dear Peggy. You can find it by Googling it. This article has been more helpful and had a bigger impact on both of us opening up and understanding the other one. I can't believe it has only been two weeks since I sent him that article. It has been so incredibly helpful for both of us and helped us take some big steps.

H has being operating under the mindset of protecting me, not hurting me over things he feels are insignificant. That if we just focus on the positive, all this other stuff will go away. This article helped him to see, no, that's not the case. I felt like he had all the pieces of what was going on with me, but this article was able to communicate all the links to put it all together for him.

He has been completely honest with me since then. And when I say complete, he is now coming to me and bringing up things that he left out before. He listened to his voice mail in front of me. This is a transparency I've never experienced before. He is becoming aware of my triggers and stopping them before they appear. He is 100% honest with me, immediately. I've gotten some "news" while on the phone with him, even though he wished he could have just said something different and then come home right away and tell me. He won't anymore. He has committed to be honest, always. And that can be a little scary...for both of us. But I'm trusting him more than I thought I ever would at this point. He has even been honest about withdrawals from OW, although he said there hasn't been any of that since October. He is opening up about things that are very difficult for him to admit to. He says he absolutely hates "that guy" that he was before. I am also completely honest with him. I have told him about things that I kept from him while S, including that I was and am part of a support group.

The Dear Peggy article helped me to understand how he wants to put it behind him and how he doesn't feel that it was him and how it's normal that he wants to deal with it the way he does do. This also helped me to understand and feel that I'm not alone. That it's normal how I need to deal with it.

He says and has shown he will do absolutely anything to get me through this. He will never hurt me again. He feels like life is meaningless without me. He feels like he needs me and without me there is no point to life. A little extreme, me thinks. And I don't know if a lot of that is just Eros love talk or if that's really how he feels. He has never talked like this before, not even when we first fell in love. I asked him if he has talked to the C about that, and he says no, but that he probably should, because the C would probably think that was unhealthy. I said, "Yeah. That's what I was thinking too, even though it makes me feel adored and special." I told him I want him to always feel so attached to me, but that it's from choice, and not a survival need. But I do feel like he is getting stronger, more confident, more grown up. He continues to grow and improve. Just when I think we've hit the mark, it gets even better. And we can and do talk about EVERYTHING.

I'm sure many of you here would absolutely love to listen to what he has to say. He is trying to give me everything. He's trying to piece together the old H, the mlc H, the feelings of mlc H and how they are illogical, but how they made sense at the time to the MLC H. He was like if you could talk to him then, he could explain why he felt that way, but the person he is now, can't explain it.

I'm getting the other side of the story. My story of things like how he showed up randomly at the house one night just to see me and hug me for 5 minutes, but now I know why. I know now how looking amazing all the time affected him. (Yes! Do this! Do everything on those lists! They notice. It matters!) He loves that I always look cute for bed. Even when he showed up randomly, even when he was sleeping in the basement, times he knew that I didn't know he would see me ready for bed, so he knew it was for me, and not for him...he loved that. He loves that I always wear something cute for bed, because now he knows it's for him. He loves when we are out and random people compliment me on my appearance. He may tease me about the time I spend to get ready to go out, but he is so proud to be seen with me.

BTW, he does not care for the term MLC at all or that he followed any kind of patterns or is relateable to anyone else. Hah! He feels like he is unique. The thing he does not like about having a term for it is it makes him feel like there is an excuse in there for his behavior. He does not feel there was any excuse for what he did. He feels like he should have gotten to where he is and where we are without all the damage and pain he caused. He feels he should have never done what he did. That he thought he was stronger and he should have been and could have been stronger.

He doesn't ever want to be apart from me. He had a convention last weekend and he was dreading it, considering not even going. He couldn't bare the thought of being away from me all weekend. I suggested that I go with him one of the days, and he was so happy. He said knowing I would be there Saturday is what got him through Friday. He called and texted me all throughout the day. When I was there on Friday, there were so many people who seemed so genuinely happy to meet me. One guy said, with a big smile on his face, "So this is your beautiful bride. I've heard a lot about you in a very short period of time."

H is so in this. And so am I. I look forward to the weekends so I can just be with him. He appreciates that when we talk about things and get to a good place with things, I am good with that and I move on from it. I don't feel the need to keep rehashing anything. I also like knowing that if I do feel like I need to go back to something, I can. Talking to him brings clarity and makes me stop thinking about it and questioning it. And as Dear Peggy said: "The goal is not to get to the point of 'never talking about it.' (That does not represent recovery.) The goal is to get to the point where you can talk about it—without the talking triggering the old painful feelings."

Also reading that timeline of at least two years for recovery helps a lot. I feel like I'm ahead of the curve in so many ways, but I'm not getting down on myself for not being further a long. That also helped H to understand that this is just going to take time and effort, which he doing and happy to be doing.

Life is amazing! The boys are happy and so much fun. We enjoy every moment with them. Every day is a new gift to cherish.

[job]

Raine,
I'm very happy for you and your family. What better way to celebrate spring...but w/recovery and new beginnings.

It's been a long journey for both of you and you both still have a little ways to go. Take things slowly, keep the door of communication open and always take the time to listen to each other. Life has a way of turning things around.

Congratulations!

[Raine]

Thanks job! I sure do appreciate you and all of your wonderful advice

[nero]

hey hi raine

i'm so happy to read your last few posts, i've been "gone" for awhile-too much going on here.

Anyway- it's so nice to hear about what is going on in your life and how it's turning out. i'm so happy for you- and your family. always good to know there is hope - still - out there.

thanks for sharing. we all just hope we reach some kind of a point - anywhere near this!

xxo

[Wonka]

Raine Baby!!!

You snuck in here without me noticing! You sly lil' devil!

I gotta look up the Dear Peggy article and see what that's all about. Always learn something new every day here in DBland.

It is good to see that H is making every effort to make up for the betrayal and loss of trust between you. However, I am also curious to know what YOU'RE doing to make H feel he's needed and how to meet his needs in the new marriage.

As you know, this isn't all about HIM. But you too. What certain things, actions, and behaviors that you're doing that is contributing to the new marriage? Are you able to recognize some of the old patterns? Are you able to develop new habits/patterns on your part that strengthen the overall well-being of this new marriage?

Are are the boys and H interacting lately? Do you see father-son bonding going on pretty well? The baby?

Keep going!!! Wonderful update!

[Raine]

I don't like to brag, and it's so much easier to focus on him...but since you want to know...

I'm hitting some pretty big marks in the PA category. I think the term he used was "insatiable," with a wicked grin on his face. (Oh, I don't "think" I "know" that's what he said.) I initiate, he initiates. There is a lot of ML, a lot of kissing, hugging, touching from both sides. Just this ever present need to be next to each other. I tease him, joke with him, just simply adore him. I kiss him and hug him whenever he is going or returning. Yes a very physical relationship that both of us think is amazing and better than it has ever been before or with anyone.

I compliment him, a lot, daily+. His appearance, his mind, his achievements. I tell him I'm proud of him. I brag about him. I admire him as a husband, father, provider. I text him sweet stuff, sexy stuff, I miss you, I love you, I want you kinds of stuff. I call him. I'm excited when he calls me. I react positively to him, always. I look nice, always, especially when we are going out together or before bed.

I go out of my way to make time spent together special. We go out a heck of a lot, to the point we really need to cut down because I think we're burning it at both ends. Concerts a few times a month, musicals, movies, dinner, games, cooking classes, shooting range, you name it, we'll try it. Friends on FB are always commenting on how they love seeing what we are up to, how do we manage it all, and what are we doing next. He plans a lot and I plan a lot. We have playlists and mementos from events we share together. I made his birthday extra special with multiple surprises, including putting together a video for him that ended up spreading all through his office. He had people he barely knew coming up to him and telling him how awesome his wife is and how great the video was.

I setup an app for lists and goals and bucket lists that sync between our phones. He loves this and adds to it. He mentions something, and I find a way to get it or make it happen. I don't have to nag him about things, like I would anyway, but the list is there for both of us. Even outside of the list, I'm taking care of things. Like he mentions an artist and I'll put their new album on his itunes. I'm always finding new ways to surprise him. I take care of things for him, like taking his shirts to the cleaners without him noticing. I always thank him and try to notice everything he does for me and the family too, and thank him for it.

I get up with him the morning, make sure he has things ready for the day, stuff for breakfast, his lunch, vitamins, etc. Time in the morning isn't just about getting the kids out the door, he is part of being taken care of too.

Above all, I'm a really good listener. I'm understanding and non-judging. Some of this stuff is super hard, and yeah, I have emotional reactions to it, but not anger or pulling away from him in anyway. I am pretty dang easy to talk to, to the point he feels like he has probably over-shared a few times. I have been very forgiving. I am working on fully getting there. I feel like when I do, I will no longer hold on to the past I thought I wanted. Everything is out in the open. I talk to him about things too. He knows I have a support group. He even knows about certain sitches too. He doesn't like to be compared to them in anyway of course. Nope, his journey is his and he is unique.

His relationship with the kids is amazing. He is all over it. He makes sure they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. He does homework with them, reads with him, plans special outings with them. He has setup Sunday afternoon family time and we watch a movie together and play games together and one night a week we go out as a family together to different places like a museum, activity, or grabbing ice cream. He is there for parent/teacher events too and shares in running them to appt or practices.

He is really close with the baby, getting up to take care of the baby or feeding him, changing diapers and playing with the toys with him. He is very protective and watchful of him and all the boys.

Life is amazing!