Crimson......still just checkin' in.

[25yearsmlc]

SID - thanks. There are days I really wish I could force my heart closed and stop caring one way or the other. I just can't....no more so than someone can force it open.

But you Do have some control in this^^^...."Love is a choice. Where the head goes, the heart will follow", etc. As long as you let the women you date have at least a chance, then so be it.


Over the time that this has been going on, I have really learned from the folks here and others that XW does, in fact, have her work to do and thus far she hasn't really dug into herself to do it.

^^Which makes it impossible to reconcile "as is".

I tend to believe that she has surrounded herself with folks (family and otherwise) that tell her that there really isn't any work for her to do and that things just "happen".

RE this^^^ I have 2 thoughts...1) how enraging(!) and good for you not to screw your head in the ceiling; and 2) do you see how the "just happens" is not that different from You saying you can't force a heart to open/close? You DO have some control there, just as your w did/does....

do you get what I'm saying here?



And I know that her dad tells her that the only reason I want to fix things is so I don't have to pay alimony and child support....and that message resonates with her I'm sure.

I probably would need to address this^^ mistaken belief, at least once. And with conviction. It's an insult you do NOT deserve. IF SHE cannot tell the difference between a man who is a cad, and a loving involved father like you...then you really are better off without her in your life & the divorce was a favor to You...



Even though nothing could be farther from the truth. Honestly, in my weaker moments I can't even begin to tell you how much that makes me mad....and, honestly, hurts my feelings that someone would think that lowly of me. No matter - nothing I can do.


You're "doing" what you can on this ^^ front, but it needs saying, & articulation at least once. Subtlety is lost on your x w, if it's a positive about you...

GM - At this point you should know that little to nothing here really rattles me much on this board....even being called a reformed narcissistic prick . I would take her "as is", but it would be "as is" while we go get help and try to work through things.

I understand you here^^. But I caution you b/c your Xw does not think she has work to do, and did nothing while you attempted a recon. I guess she thought it would 'happen" but whoops, it does not work that way.
I swear to you Crimson, IF IF IF there's a chance for her to really come around and do work on HERSELF FIRST...( to earn her way back to you) it'd be by her seeing you in another R with someone.

She'd see you still being warm/positive upbeat around her, and a "dear friend" who listens to her frustrations about work or parenting and co-parents well....and is also a dynamite boyfriend to OW...she'd start thinking "WTH did I give up? Oh, a really good man..."

OR she would not care at all. But I do NOT believe she'd think "Crimson must not have cared or he'd STILL be pining for me..." b/c Crimson,
IF pining for her to prove your love was really what she needed, it would have happened by now, imo.

I am not advising you to date, as a tactic. I'm simply saying it won't hurt your R with HER...so that should not be a consideration when you decide to date. And I hope you find someone who sees you for who you are.

We all like to think it'd be 'ideal' to reconcile, for your son's sake. But would it? I mean, as she is now, She left at the first conflict, instead of modeling ANY resolution of conflict.

She nurses her perceived "wounds" til they fester silently, (so you cannot do anything to help b/c she withholds the information you need) & she can wallop you with a sudden departure/punishment.

What does that really do for your son?



I am now 100% of the belief that each party has to hit that one wall where you realize it's you and not the other person as much as you think. And then, even if you DO hit it -- you have to have a reason to want to improve, own, and be better.

Yes...well said. But I wonder... could she ever hit that wall, with you so available? You may say you are not that available, but if she were to call you and want lunch/dinner/or a new dishwasher...(anything, really) wouldn't you look for a reason to do it ----by claiming it's "for your son"....??


Thank you for your kind words, GM....I was feeling a little down this morning. I wish XW could see me in 1/10th of the light you see me in. That would help.

Crimson

Open your heart Crimson...not just for her. 90% of the women you meet for a date are already attracted to you enough for a date. (Unless you are showing the photo taken 12 years ago...)

When they get to know the real you (assuming you show them the guy we see HERE), how can they not think "this is a GOOD man"?

Sure, it doesn't mean they'll all think you're a great fit for their lives and must be their husband, but I'm sure if they meet the man who is here on this site, you're going to feel a lot better about who you are.

BTW, just so we know...do you have to lose 100 lbs or have any disfiguring scars on your face or some such "defect" we are not aware of? I only ask b/c I'm baffled by your w's choices.

I mean, talk about someone living in fear....her whole perspective is based on the premise she was/is a victim & will be hurt by taking ANY risks...and to HER, being single and having a great co-parent for her son, seems safer. What a lousy way to live.

If she's dating, she will notice that A LOT of men are not going to match YOU. I hope she does date b/c that's another shorter route to her seeing your value. So don't freak if she does. Seriously.

(((( ))))

[Crimson]

Nope, 25 -- not major afflictions, rashes, scars, missing parts, or morbid obesity to report. I am 6'5", 235-ish, and in reasonably good shape....pretty much the same way she found me in 2003. I think I am reasonably attractive - I am no Brad Pitt (or Denzel Washington, as the case may be) - but I do try to take care of myself. Notwithstanding, holy CRAP does this whole ordeal make you revisit your physical attractiveness as well....being left behind can tap into insecurities that you didn't even really know you possessed. To be fully transparent, I still struggle looking at myself in the mirror at times because I think that WHATEVER it is that is looking back at me is so unattractive, so undesirable to XW that to makes me focus in on every little flaw I can see. Sometimes, I just take off my glasses or contacts to avoid getting a clear look at myself and having to think my hair is too long or I am getting too soft in the middle. Embarrassing to admit, but very much a true story.

I do believe, all in all, that through this whole debacle I have become a better father, a better potential husband, and a better man in general. And I guess I soak in that irony now because XW can't see it - but was able to marry and reproduce with a "worse" version of me and can't see fit to trust or get to know who or what I am now - despite trying my best to make it easy to do.

You know, 25 (and others), part of me wants her to date and have a miserable time of it....and I know that that is my spiteful side emerging and I do try to put it back in its place when it pops up. Yet at the same time, I feel like she'll meet someone right out of the gate that she thinks is amazing, is the antithesis of the me that she remembers, and wants all the things out of life that she wants or thinks she wants....they'll marry, have a few kids, live happily ever after, and my S will have a secondary male role model. Now, academically, I know that that is not the most likely scenario given what I know about some of the travails my single female friends in their late 30's and early 40's have been through - but I keep thinking "with my luck......".

Unrelated, but I am also starting to strongly believe that the same communication problems that appeared in our marriage are appearing in how we parent. XW will basically ONLY speak to my via text right now for the most part. And she flat out said a few weeks back that she didn't feel we could talk without a third party present. I don't know what is driving that because I do not go about searching for fights....I know better and do not take the bait if it is offered. Even on a friendly level she can't communicate. She texted me this weekend asking if I had any picture of S from the weekend I could share. I waited a few hours and eventually sent over some that I had taken. There was no "thank you", no "oh, where did you guys go?", there was zero acknowledgment that I had even sent them along....no text back. What is that about?? That is basically the level of respect or communication that you would give a stranger. And yes, I thought long and hard about not sending any pictures at all and ignoring her - but I viewed it as another one of those moments in life where I am being prodded to choose kindness even though I won't get it back. All in all, I feel like I need to tell her that we cannot raise a child through text messages.

With regard to clarifying directly to her that my desire to hold my family together has nothing to do with not wanting to pay alimony or child support as her father has told her - maybe I will try to find a way to make that point -- verbally or written?? I really, really, REALLY is something that bothers me greatly - and is a pretty harsh false indictment of my character. Come the end of July, however, I will write my last spousal support check - and in doing so, I know that it will create a rash of financial problems for her (or so I suspect, anyway -- I know most of the numbers in play). So I guess if ever after that point I am still "present" in one way, shape or form -- then what is the excuse for me wanting my family intact?

Hope everyone is well.

Crimson

[sandi2]

Well, she's a miserable person and has to blame someone, otherwise, she'd have to take a little responsibility for her happiness. I think she uses you as her emotional punching bag. You never know what kind of mood to expect from day to day.


Is son feeling better these days?

Oh, does that bring back memories! My H would beg, bargin, play games, etc..... to get our kids to take their meds. But I didn't so much. I found that if you hold their nose long enough....they eventually have to open their mouth.

Oh come on! That was funny!

[Crimson]

Sandi - if she is miserable, she does a fairly decent job trying to conceal it from me. At times I think her definition of happiness is finding someone else and just starting over again fresh.

S is feeling much better, thank you. I resorted to sneak attacks with his meds. If he was wrapped up in Angry Birds or something I would quickly swoop in and give them to him before he had a chance to run or cry....and then give him some water to wash it down with. He still cried - but not as much.

Just to keep everyone up to speed - couple of things....

I took Monday and Tuesday off for S spring break from preschool. We had a pretty good time together and did a lot. The handoff to XW was rough....really rough. We were leaving a mall after getting ice cream and he asked where we were going....I told him we had to go to mama's and he started sobbing....hard. And I know the fakes ones and this was not that. He asked "how many minutes" he had to be there while choking on his own tears. At that point I started to fight back my own. Still sobbing, he said "I'm going to miss you" and then shattered my heart by saying through his sobs "when am I going to see you again?". I couldn't even open my mouth at that point, my voice was cracking. It was silent after that for the whole drive and as I looked in the rearview mirror his face was long and his demeanor was despondent. I just reach back and grabbed his hand and he gripped my forearm.

When we got to XWs place he was silent, but very sad in his mannerisms. He gripped onto my leg and wouldn't really let go....started sobbing his eyes out again. I picked him up and hugged him....then handed him to XW, he reached back out for one more hug, still crying, and then the door closed. XW and S watched me walk away from through the window.

Water poured from my eyes the whole drive home.

My heart breaks every time that happens and I am left to wonder how in the world a mother could witness that happening to her son and think that the decisions that she has made for his life are "good" ones. I am sure many of you have lived through it yourselves - it is brutal....and it has not gotten any easier for me OR him throughout this whole ordeal. I am tearing up just recounting it all right now.

I won't go into the specifics as to why right now, but XW basically said she would be open to going back to my C regarding co-parenting. I think it is a good idea, but I need to try to calm my anger that has grown. Notwithstanding, I am learning that the EXACT same issues that caused strife in our relationship will cause strife as we share a child. It's impossible to NOT address them and do well. It's a small thing, her wanting to go, but I think I will take her up on it. She texted this morning asking about it again....maybe the events of yesterday were on her mind too. He is the kindest, sweetest kid you'll ever meet....he deserves so much better than having to wonder when he will see his dad again. And I am still left to wonder what it is like over there for him to not want to be there so much.

XW signed him up for swimming lessons without asking me first - not allowed to do that without consulting the other parent first. It's the second or third time she has done something like that without checking with me first.....I have not brought it to her attention, but will. It seems as if she feels that she can do anything she wants with him without having to touch base with me....like I am some sort of non-factor.

UGH....my heart hurts.

[Crimson]

Thanks, GM -- at this juncture I am willing to try almost anything. I can't stand to see him break down like that again and again and again.

So I have a general question for everyone - if both parties haven't really addressed their respective "things", can that bleed over into a co-parenting relationship? As time progresses onward, I am starting to see some of the same communication and understanding issues materialize in our co-parenting space.

Why do I ask?

Without going into depth as to why, XW said she would like to go back to my IC together to talk about co-parenting and she brought it up again last week. She said she was "open" to it. Given how everything has been, I think it would be helpful to have a dialogue on this with a C. The thing is, I have a very strong feeling that any talk about this topic with a C is going to be a little bit deeper than "be-a-team-with-him" and really look at how we relate to one another. Not sure how that level of analysis will sit with XW.....but really, what's to lose?

There are moments where I think the not knowing each other anymore, paired with old feelings and resentment really get in the way of dealing with our S. For example, if I have a strong thought or feeling about something that I think he should or should not do and I stand by that feeling the narrative from XW becomes (once again) "See? Everthing has to be your way....I don't have a voice....my opinion is never listened to." The grand irony in that is that by approaching someone with that line is basically telling them that THEIR opinion doesn't matter and THEY don't have a voice when there is an opposing view or desire.

To this day I still can't see through her eyes what is so deplorable about me and/or our family that makes being single and having your baby part time a more viable/desirable option. I hate being without my boy and I can't think of too many things that I wouldn't do or work on in myself or my life to make my way back to him full time. Looking back on it, she wanted a family so badly (remember - 3 years of infertility and treatments) I can't see how this makes much sense. I know not to take too much of it on - but at moments I think to myself that I have GOT to be horrible for this to be a better choice.

At any rate -- just looking for input.

Thanks -

Crimson

[ye21]

To this day I still can't see through her eyes what is so deplorable about me and/or our family that makes being single and having your baby part time a more viable/desirable option. I hate being without my boy and I can't think of too many things that I wouldn't do or work on in myself or my life to make my way back to him full time. Looking back on it, she wanted a family so badly (remember - 3 years of infertility and treatments) I can't see how this makes much sense. I know not to take too much of it on - but at moments I think to myself that I have GOT to be horrible for this to be a better choice.

Hey man, I dont like to hear that you feel like that...
Thats the way we think things has to be...we do something "wrong" so we have to be punished because we deserve it...
I dont know what you did to your W...but unless you did some kind of abusse, it makes no sense that a person has that anger....Its their life and they blame us for their problems but the reality its that most of the times we didnt do something so "wrong"

When my W left the house, she blamed me of not being financially solvent, of being inmature and lie to her, also not supporting her in her career...
Its true, Well till a point it is...I worked as a photographer for 3 years...we were together for 4 and a half....inmature? Every time we had a problem I was willing to talk about it, she didnt, lie to her? Yes, I told her when I was 15 years old a pro cycling team gave me an offer to be a ciclist...it wasnt true....
Not supporting her in her career? Everytime she asked me if I though she was gonna be an actress I said yes, right away she would cut me and tell me I dont want to talk about this anymore...

When she left I blamed myself for all that, and couldnt see the reality...I wanted her to be with me and I would take any shot to make that work...

Do I deserve the insults? The disrespectfull attitudes? The "I am depress" why honey? "Its because of my career" ???? Do I deserve her flirting with other guys in front of me? Do I deserve her making fun of me in front of my friends and her family?
The response its no, no matter what I did I dont deserve none of that...but untill I didnt gained enough self respect I couldnt see that, its true that I will always tell her about my problems at my work, its true that I got jealous when she will be flirting with others...
Also its true that my W didnt put any effort in stopping blaming everybody of her problems...it was easier for her to blame everybody instead of looking inside her...
There are things we dont like in our lifes so we work on them, but your W its not the person to tell you those things, at least not in that way, she has choices and can do whatever she wants nobody and nothing will stop her...but there is a big part we all loose when we loose the R, and that part its self respect...

Today I see my W from a different lens, I love her a lot, and I understand her for the first time, I understand one thing she told me once: I dont know how to accept love because I think I don't deserve it...

And because I see her in a different way, I stay away from her...because now I understand her frustrations, her fears and I understand why she had to escape the way she did...she was escaping from "her life" a life she didnt like it, and in that process somebody had to get hurt...

That doesnt justify that i deserve that....

Analize what you did, but analize it in a realistic way..... And you will realize what I am saying....sometimes its our fault...years ago I had a girlfriend that I abussed phisically... I dont blame her for living me I am actually happy now that she did, she didnt deserve what I did to her...
Sometimes we do things that push W away, sometimes they are figuring out their lifes and being inside a R doesnt allow them to figure it out so they need to step away....
So dont fall in the "I caused everything mentallity" analize what you realistically dont like from your R and how you can change that, but also assume that sometimes they need to work on themselves and thats the only way they will be able to do it...by walking away

[slow_it_down]

If she's bringing it up my vote would be to take her up on it and get some counseling together.

Either A she really does just want things to be good between you as a co parent or B she feels like she isn't exactly happy and is testing the waters of having you in her life again. If you were a beginner on these boards everyone would be telling you to take advantage of that counseling time together to show your best self. You don't have to go into it with your hopes up that things will work out, but you can take what she can give and see where it leads you.

Plus, the more you are in her life, even as a co parent, the more she's likely to think of you for decisions like swimming lessons.

[25yearsmlc]

Crimson

If I were in my h's shoes, and knew what I as his w know, (as in, how hurt our daughters were when he left, despite their pleas to him to stay)

I'd have a hard time wanting to live....

But my h says he's willing to "get naked" and become vulnerable in the Therapists office and so next week, we'll go.

My point is, his absence hurt them deeply, which I BELIEVED would happen and which I told him back then. But I moved forward b/c I had to.

I just didn't realize how hard it would be, years later, to see our girls suffer from depression and anxiety and need therapy and each one say "my dad IGNORED me/us for years", which is how they see the separation, years later.

I'm not having a great month but I actually am trying to make a positive point here.

It's this: YOUR son knows you love him and want to be with him. That matters. He'll never feel rejected BY you. As for his r with your ex w, my dear friend, try what I am trying, which is to step back.

Support what you can when you can, and hope to God your son doesn't resent women later on...but don't take it all on yourself. I'm proof that it doesn't work and it stinks to feel this way.

Torn in different directions, and trying to bridge gaps between others, that cannot be our job, can it? Of course h's r's with our kids affects how I feel toward him, which makes this all so complicated.

Take a break. Imagine if you were to meet a woman who loved you as you are, and loved your son too...

would that really be so bad? I KNOW it'd be more ideal if your x w came around, but let's just imagine that doesn't happen.

If she's never going to come around, what are YOUR options, other than moving on?

And if she is going to come around, how is you waiting for her, speeding that up?

(I think it's slowing her 'progress' down). But hey, we're here, all rooting for you.

((( )))

[Crimson]

For the first time I can remember, 25, my heart actually goes out to you in a post you have made to me. It is clear that the situation that is currently in the landscape of your life is troublesome. You are are hero to me and many others here - you have helped both directly and indirectly so many. I am rooting for you, too. I mean that will every ounce of my heart.

[25yearsmlc]

Crimson,

Thanks...truly.


((((( )))))