I used t to dislike u. Thought u were a narscisits prick. But man im proud as to how much you have grown. You know we r family even if we disagree. And I will Allways want the best for u and the family. Keep growing buddy. Im sorry that your w is missing out.
M 53 D 20 Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24 Together 26 yrs Married 16 W Filed for D 7/21/11 Served 9/6/11 D final 8/28/12
“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”
Thanks for chiming in, folks - as always I sincerely appreciate the perspectives and insights that I get here.
Rick - your post cracked me the eff up! I don't think I was so much a narcissistic prick and I was just TOTALLY lost and incapable of helping myself or anyone else for that matter. That said, within the context of my marriage - I was totally narcissistic (though unaware) and selfish.....but that is neither here nor there.....or is it??
25 & GM.....My IC, you guys, and a host of others have basically made me aware of the fact that she (XW) has not really dug into her side of the train tracks to do her work. I think she has flirted with notion over time - but really has not committed to it. It's hard...and it required the ability to flat out say what I thought, said or felt was just....well, wrong. And that is might have hurt someone else. I don't think she is prepared to deal with the pain of that realization. Lord knows I wasn't - but a series of 2x4s here (as well as some from friends) got me to do the work and own it. So no, there is no way that we could work out in the absence of her taking those steps....none. And truthfully, if I think about it -- I wouldn't want it. There are only so many eggshells you can walk on, and only so much of your tongue you can bite in the hopes of not being misunderstood or vilified. Your assessment that she hears what she fears - not what is actually in front of her it very accurate.
So yeah, to some degree I think you guys are right I am stuck. Though I don't think it's stuck on the notion that she will simply come back. Rather, I am somewhat stuck hoping that she will, at some point, want to work on her things. Believe me, I am dating -- I am really trying to put myself out there and admittedly, I have had some fun along the way. However, I know for me to be able to TRULY immerse myself (as well as my S) in a relationship it would have to be someone exceptional - and I have not encountered that yet. My heart is slowly opening to the idea -- but it is not there just yet.
In recent events related to this whole ordeal......
Last Sunday morning I was in bed around 8:00 AM. I left my phone of vibrate and out of reach so I really hadn't looked at it since around 6:00 the previous night. So when I started to flip back and forth in bed because of the sunrise and the urge to pee, I grabbed my phone. I missed a call at around 7:30 AM from XW and there was a voicemail. She had also left a text message that read "we are at the Children's Hospital". Well, that got the adrenaline flowing for sure. I listened to the voice message and basically S had woken up complaining about a pain in his ear - and the side of his neck was very swollen. In her message she was asking me to help her find a 24 hour clinic....I never got the message, hence they ended up at the hospital.
I drove like a maniac to get there and by the time I arrived S had been seen and diagnosed (just a lymph infection, nothing too serious). He lit up when he saw me enter the ER and just lunged for me (that felt good). XW filled me in a bit and I spoke to one of the nurses.
So as XW and I were exiting the hospital for the parking lot - she through a question out to me that I was not really expecting - "So do you want to go get breakfast?". We ended up grabbing something to eat together and just enjoying the time with our S. She asked how work was going for me so I filled her in -- and she did the same. It felt good to talk to my old best friend just about life again. Then rather abruptly she asked my how my follow-up with IC after her visit went. Didn't see that coming.
Now, there is a lot I wanted to say about the two visits I've had since she saw her - but honestly, the setting was not right and I was neither mentally nor emotionally prepared to discuss it at that time....plus, S was right there with us and I try to keep him shielded from any of our "stuff" if I can. I just said "it went really well". I also told her that IC is very discreet and did not talk in great detail about what they discussed (which is true). I said that she (my IC) really seemed to like her and just had good things to say about the discussion.
XW then responded "so I wasn't the evil person that she was probably expecting to meet?". I promptly said that I have never bad-mouthed her in the least to my IC. She said "Can you imagine how intimidating that was going in there by myself?". I validated her feelings and moved on. It felt like she wanted to talk about it a little more - it looked like it in her face as well....her affect changed a tiny bit when she brought up IC. Sidenote: the "can you imagine" was said conversationally - not in a hostile fashion.
Soooo.....breakfast ended, we went our separate ways - she dropped him off with me later that day, and that was it.
Thanks, GM....it's a wrestling match to get him to take his antibiotic, but he is in great shape.
That is an excellent question, and one that I frequently ask myself. If I met her today for the first time and had no history -- just the attraction and whatever would come of our interactions....yeah, I would date her. If I met her and knew a lot of depth about her issues - I would take a long look at dating first. I am not saying "no"....but I would not rush in by any means. I guess I would try to look at her issues relative to the issues of others.
I would tend to agree with you there, Bug. Do I have the energy? Hmmm, is there a difference between having the energy vs. having the motivation? Because I may have some mixture of both - but enough of either? To be determined. She has a decent amount of real estate in my heart....as does S, of course. But still - we are where we are - right?
It's spring training season in PHX, Bug!!!! You need to take in a game!! It's a great date - the cheap grass seats, sunshine, and and a few cold drinks.
Hi Crimson, about drop offs and your son. when my d was younger we did most swaps through daycare and school. i'd let my d know who was picking her up later so she knew who to expect. direct drop-offs were always a little rough.
when she was about 4 we had a conversation and she told me that she was always torn between being happy to see one of us while missing the other at the same time.
i think your son may be at this same stage.
"In a ham and eggs breakfast, the hen is involved, but the pig is committed".
it's a wrestling match to get him to take his antibiotic, but he is in great shape.
Oh, does that bring back memories! My H would beg, bargin, play games, etc..... to get our kids to take their meds. But I didn't so much. I found that if you hold their nose long enough....they eventually have to open their mouth.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
XW then responded "so I wasn't the evil person that she was probably expecting to meet?". I promptly said that I have never bad-mouthed her in the least to my IC. She said "Can you imagine how intimidating that was going in there by myself?".
It sounds like maybe she's accepting at least some degree of responsibility for things. If she felt totally absolved of all guilt I'd imagine she would have walked away from that IC session feeling like she got to prove how this was all your fault and wouldn't be asking you for an opinion of what the IC thought of her.
Is being 'stuck on her' really so bad? You are living life w/o her while keeping your heart open and the path back clear. I think that's a loving way to live. Also, she may not have done the work on herself, but she's still someone you committed your life to. We all want to see you happy and free of drama, but if accepting her as is gets you back to seeing your son daily and gets you closer to the life you want, maybe it's worth giving things another shot if she starts warming up to you again.
As always, only patience and time will tell you what she's thinking.
BD: Aug 2012 Separated since May 2013 S born Aug 2013 Aug 2013 H agrees to consider 'baby steps toward working things out' H is/was actively seeing someone?
SID - thanks. There are days I really wish I could force my heart closed and stop caring one way or the other. I just can't....no more so than someone can force it open. Over the time that this has been going on, I have really learned from the folks here and others that XW does, in fact, have her work to do and thus far she hasn't really dug into herself to do it. I tend to believe that she has surrounded herself with folks (family and otherwise) that tell her that there really isn't any work for her to do and that things just "happen". And I know that her dad tells her that the only reason I want to fix things is so I don't have to pay alimony and child support....and that message resonates with her I'm sure. Even though nothing could be farther from the truth. Honestly, in my weaker moments I can't even begin to tell you how much that makes me mad....and, honestly, hurts my feelings that someone would think that lowly of me. No matter - nothing I can do.
GM - At this point you should know that little to nothing here really rattles me much on this board....even being called a reformed narcissistic prick . I would take her "as is", but it would be "as is" while we go get help and try to work through things. I am now 100% of the belief that each party has to hit that one wall where you realize it's you and not the other person as much as you think. And then, even if you DO hit it -- you have to have a reason to want to improve, own, and be better.
Thank you for your kind words, GM....I was feeling a little down this morning. I wish XW could see me in 1/10th of the light you see me in. That would help.
. I would take her "as is", but it would be "as is" while we go get help and try to work through things. I am now 100% of the belief that each party has to hit that one wall where you realize it's you and not the other person as much as you think. And then, even if you DO hit it -- you have to have a reason to want to improve, own, and be better.