We are on the brink

[WhyUs]

Two years???? I did not realize it has been that long. Yes bread crums are the way to go. Follow the advice on interaction with him though.

[Avanti]

Azzork, largely agreed.

The slightly contentious observation I'd make and at the risk of appearing judgemental SJ (which I sincerely don't wish to be) is that it seems like you have not been leaving your H alone for very long, over the 2 years, so he's very entrenched in his cave.

If anything I'd be encouraged as he's still with you, it's just that you've got into some tricky positions that gently need maneuvering out of. Frankly, a BD is acting like someone who is ill-informed and in a fog, which you aren't SJ. Maybe it's better to think of your sitch as being at a point where the Last or Last, Last Resort Technique (LRT) needs to be potentially employed and then you can adapt and fit the DB strategy around what you do, rather than something potentially a bit maverick. Have you got and read the book yet?

The detach element to DB applies here (read up on it on here, or in the book) and until it's strictly adhered to, or as close as you can get given your sitch, you'll not make any real or sustained progress.

You've agreed to one more month before deploying a BD (still think this approach is wrong), make that a month where you go no where near his cave. Keep as big a distance as you can between you and your H, no crumbs, no nothing (sorry Azzork). If you get some movement from him, leave a mere morsel nothing more, be very frugal, to encourage more, but if you leave nothing you'll get more movement anyway IF he's ready to talk. Fight any instinct to reach out or fix him and he may turn around but if you don't give him space he'll stick where he is, almost guaranteed.

[Azzork]

You've agreed to one more month before deploying a BD (still think this approach is wrong), make that a month where you go no where near his cave. Keep as big a distance as you can between you and your H, no crumbs, no nothing (sorry Azzork). If you get some movement from him, leave a mere morsel nothing more, be very frugal, to encourage more, but if you leave nothing you'll get more movement anyway IF he's ready to talk. Fight any instinct to reach out or fix him and he may turn around but if you don't give him space he'll stick where he is, almost guaranteed.

As for the one month, I agree on some level. But I think one month of seriously doing some work and tracking the progress is better than giving up today and BD/filing.

As for doing "nothing" by his cave, I inderstand what you mean on some level. On an emotional level I DEFINITELY agree. No R talk, no deep convos. But I do think doing things to reinforce his positive behaviors is important. Being appreciative, validating, etc. I'm not suggesting she walk by his computer room in her underwear.

Take a look at some of the goals I listed on the last page. I mentioned I'm not great at it. Add stuff!!

[Avanti]

Your suggested goals are a great scaffold for SJ to work from, I can only think of a few colouring in suggestions, nothing any more concrete.

How do you feel SJ now that you've had a few (former and no doubt future repeat offender) cave dwellers give their 2 cents?

[SpinningJenny]

Thanks so much for the feedback, gentlemen.

How do I feel? More and less baffled. I feel like I can take my husband's cave-dwelling less personally. And yes, while I've been moving away from him and we've been much more distant over the past two years, it hasn't been consistent on my part that I've left him alone.

On the other hand, I want a partner. Someone who is able to speak up for their needs, tell me what they want and don't want, and deal with the fact that I have wants and needs too. I don't want to be babied, I don't expect him to spend his life meeting my every whim. But I do expect someone emotionally robust enough to deal with the normal actions of family life - budgeting, shopping, etc. And I do expect to be able to ask, calmly and with respect, for what I need. And sometimes get it.

I need to think more. And right now I need to sleep. It's been a good day for me today. I was kind and friendly to my husband. I cooked his favourite thing and instead of hiding away in my home office, I sat in the living room and knitted this evening. I didn't expect or initiate conversation. But I feel like a punished child banished to her room these days, and I guess I don't have to live that life if I don't want to. He doesn't banish me to my room, I sneak away there to leave him alone. I don't want to do that anymore though.

I will walk tomorrow and have a good long think. Amazon says DR is on its way.

[Avanti]

The BD book might still be on its way, but you've done quite a few of the things it suggests already. You'll have to retreat to your office to read the book, don't do so in front of your husband thinking it'll intrigue him, let your new behaviour do that for you.

You will feel more and less baffled for quite a while (if not all the time), what changes is stuff becoming less tangled as you'll find a path for yourself through to a better more peaceful and under control (in a nice way) place.

The needs you talk about above are understandable, they are what we all crave, if you put them to one side for a while you'll see some change that's for certain, you are going to have to cast off the need to be right and turn it into doing the right things.

Enjoy your walk and think; try not to let your thoughts get knotted up by over analysing. If you find your thoughts ending up in dark places, become aware of it and gently distract yourself by switching your focus to what your can hear or what you can see and stay with that for as long as you can.

[SpinningJenny]

Thanks, Beagley.

I think I do have a problem with wanting to be right, rather than wanting to do the right thing. That is an issue I could work on.

Part of me thinks, why should I pretend to be less capable than I am, just to get him involved with our lives? Why shouldn't I expect an adult to act like an adult?

But that isn't working and hasn't been working for a long time.

I need to find a way to change my behaviour while keeping my respect for him and myself.

I think I need to reframe things. I've been reading your threads and I see how reframing has been helpful to you.

Perhaps he's not childish or incapable or sulking. The more I think about it, the more I think he's stuck in self-protective mode, and I do need to take a huge amount of responsibility for that. My illness was traumatic to him, the way I behaved was unacceptable to any normal adult, and it took me a long time to get over it (I had PTSD which is resolved or at least under control now). I think I need to show him that I am trustworthy - that I am not going to go back to this place.

Perhaps my leaving him alone has looked like sulking and withdrawal to him. I am certain he's sensed my lack of respect for the way he's dealt with things over the past couple of years. I can work on rectifying those things.

I have some work and errands to do this afternoon, but I will be checking in again later.

Thanks all, so much, for posting. It has actually helped a lot to have a man's perspective on these things.

[Avanti]

Your thinking really is moving in the right directions, you are turning a very significant corner and will benefit greatly from it.

When you get DB the book you'll really start to motor on, even more, as it will give you some subtle changes to what you are doing now if and when they are required.

Looking forward to your update posts.

[WhyUs]

Good luck Spinning Jenny and do not forget to get "Men are From Mars, Women are from Venus." I think you have the right attitude and that will help tremendously.

[Azzork]

How would you treat him if you had exactly ZERO expectations of him?

Instead of being disappointed that he doesnt do something, be grateful when he DOES something.