I've been a lurker on this forum for a while and have finally got up the courage to post. I have read the books and the rules and have been having trouble applying them to my particular situation, so I am hoping that by outlining things here I am going to get some advice as to where I am going wrong, how I can improve - and a few 2X4s if needed.
My DH and I have been together for nearly nine years, married for four. We have two children - 8 year old and 3 year old. After the birth of our youngest, I was very sick with PPD and PTSD. I believe that is where the root of our problems are - I was working, my DH was a student, and I was angry, depressed, anxious - really taking it out on him. He was basically a punching bag for me, developed his own anxiety and depression issues (I believe) as a consequence of this, and generally withdrew from me. It took me about a year to seek treatment, and I can say that only in the past six months have I started to feel fully recovered. DH has stuck by me in practical terms - he's a SAHD to our children, is devoted to the, and works hard around the house, but he's very withdrawn from me.
I have been persuing him and getting upset when he's been distant - that has led to some really ugly fights, to us both threatening to leave each other, to some very hurtful things said. He says he feels helpless, like he has no power in the relationship, like he isn't respected, I don't care about what he needs, that he doesn't get to have choices about how to spend his time, that he's unhappy, and it is my fault. I haven't been good at validating him, and haven't been good at showing the patience and perseverance that he did while I was ill and recovering. I do believe that we're on the brink of leaving - he's certainly told me several times that he is trapped, and only here because he can't afford his own place, that he doesn't want to leave the children, etc.
I have been trying to give him space, be kind, be calm, and not ask him for anything - not pester, not ask that he spend time with me. It is hard for me to make sure he has time for himself - I work full time, am around as much as possible at the weekends, but I also don't want to suggest things for him to do because I don't want to stifle him or make him feel disrespected or controlled.
I have been reading a book called 'Boundaries'. So far the only Boundary I have put in place is to do with our communication. I won't speak to him in a sarcastic or disrespectful way and I won't stay in a conversation where he is speaking that way to me. I calmly say, 'please don't speak to me that way, if you do I will have to leave,' and then I do. This hasn't had much effect so far, though I have managed to control my own tongue much better.
I think we have issues around money - he doesn't make any at the moment, and though I transfer money into his account each month for the household and his personal needs, he doesn't feel like he is in control - I guess he feels dependent. I have said I will work less hours so he can work outside the home if he wants to, but he hasn't had success at finding work and I can't work less until he does. I pay for childcare three days a week so he can have time to himself and he generally uses that time to work on the house or do some leisure activity.
We also have an issue around sex. He tends not to initiate very often - I believe because when I was sick I so often refused, or had anxiety-attack type symptoms, became very angry and unreasonable when he approached me. I can totally understand that. I have been working on initiating with him more, so we do have some sexual contact, but it isn't really that enjoyable for me. Partly I think due to anxiety on my part, my focus on constantly reassuring him that it is okay, I am not going to get anxious again distracting me, and partly to do with the fact that he does very little foreplay or kissing. I think this might be because he is scared - he will do nothing unless I ask for it specifically, and if I don't respond quickly enough, he will stop. This feels very pressured for me, so it's been easier for me just to make sure he has a good time and forget about me. I think he's angry about this - he tells me that there's something wrong with me, that I need to get therapy, that it isn't his job to make me feel good. I think he's scared and frustrated.
The other problem is with his family. We've been struggling for a while - but it came to a head in the summer. He was giving me the silent treatment and I was beside myself. I confided in his mother. She, at the time, seemed sympathetic (we had, up until that point, been reasonably close) but since then has certainly cooled towards me. I have been ignored by his sisters at family events, and apparently his mother has said some fairly unpleasant things about me to DH. I have not indicated that I want to curtail his or our children's time with them, but I don't feel comfortable around them any more and I do feel hurt that DH hasn't defended me or supported me in this.
Another issue is drinking. DH has always been a big drinker - me less so, though over our first years together I gradually started drinking more as so much of the time we spent together revolved around drinking. After the birth of my second child my drinking and his really got out of control - I think we were both self medicating anxiety and depression. While we both drink a little less than we used to, I still drink more than is good for me - mainly to deal with boredom, lonleyness and stress - and I believe that DH drinks too much too. This often makes him really angry - I certainly don't feel unsafe with him (he has never been violent - punched a wall in frustration once during an argument, but nothing else) but today it is about 8pm, he has been drinking since 2pm in the afternoon and has just asked me to put more money in his bank account so he can buy more. I don't want to do that, but I don't want him to feel I am controlling all the money and what he can do either.
Really I need help with making some specific goals and 180s that I can try because I am lost. Things are most peaceful between us when I leave him completely alone and stay out of his way, but I am not sure if that is helping, or not.
I am so glad you posted.You will surely get some insights here. There are many long standing issues to address. The best way to immediately set your goals and have a plan in place is to talk to a DB coach. They are the experts and will help you get on track with the support and guidance you need to turn things around. I would be happy to discuss further with you. Take good care.
Karen, Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004 karen@divorcebusting.com
Give me a call if you'd like to schedule an appointment to speak with a Divorce Busting® Coach.
Welcome to the boards, you'll find a lot of good here. I don't have any great advice to give at the moment....but I do wonder about your money situation. Why doesn't your H have direct access to both of your money. One thing I did learn in MC is not matter who brings in the money it belongs to you both. Having to ask for money was something that was demasculating fo my H and I didnt realize it (he worked but he paid rent and would sometimes need extra money around that time of the month to do other things). I immediately had my direct deposit changed over to a joint account and stopped saying "my money" and began to say "our money"...."my, mine" seems like a small thing but it definitely aids in being a relationship killer.
So I was curious if there was a serious specific reason he doesn't have direct access to household funds and is instead given the money to pay bills and personal needs? If not then it can be a quick and simple 180 to fix that one issue.
me: 30 H:30 tgthr:7 m:4 no kids 5 counseling sessions initiated by H as a LR: Oct 2012 long distance marriage b/c of work since Nov 2012 official BD: July 2013 nothing filed 1/1/14 I dropped the rope
With what you described about the money, him not having a job, supporting his drinking- I think this is a major issue. You are enabling him to not work, by supporting him financially. I know you are treading lightly, but I would reconsider how you are approaching this.
Were the roles ever reversed and he was the sole earner? How did he control the money then? If he wanted the money to go buy illegal drugs would you still give it to him? (Alcohol is a drug but not illegal of course.)
I understand he's a SAHD and that is a hard job, what kind of social circles does he have? Could he do part time work? I think there are examples in DR where the SAHS goes to work just to pull them out of their funk, give them adult interaction.
H: 29 WAXW: 30
Bomb Drop- 9/9/13 Negotiated Settlement- 5/9/14 D Final- 5/21/14 XW has breakdown in attorney lobby- 5/30/14
Kdog - I might be enabling him not to work by supporting him financially, but then again, he is enabling me to pursue my career by doing much of the childcare and most of the housework, so I guess it works both ways. I know he does want to work and is looking for work, but the economy is bad. I've let him know if he wants to do voluntary work or training, we can afford for him to do that. But I don't want to make this decision for him.
Regarding finances - he's never been the sole earner and we've never had shared accounts. He generally paid a % of his income directly into my account to cover his share of the household expenses and had the rest to do as he pleased with. Now I pay a %of my income into his account for household expenses (food shopping, petrol for his car etc) and extra for his own needs to do as he pleases with. The rest of the bills and my own transport costs are covered from my account and the amount of money I have for personal fun money is probably about the same as his. We could open a joint account - we just never have before - but I would not be adverse to it.
Drinking - yes - this is a problem for us both, I think. I didn't have anything yesterday and nothing today, and I am planning on continuing this. Neither of us are physically dependent, but I know I over-use alcohol to get rid of anxiety, boredom and loneliness and I want to stop that. I think DH uses it for much the same reasons.
What do I want? I want to be more emotionally independent - not reliant on DH or the booze to deal with my negative feelings. I want to get more exercise and take better care of my emotional and physical health. I want to have a better relationship with my children - spend more time doing fun things with them. I want to balance my work and family life better, and spend less time on social media. I want to find a way to treat my husband with respect without stifling him or mothering him or expecting him to mother me. I want to find some actions I can take that will make changes to my life and our relationship, rather than just endlessly having conversations that turn into arguments and don't really cause any change. I want to have fun again.
My DH is isolated - has few friends and not a huge amount of close contact with his family. He's always been this way - he's an introverted person. He used to have many interests, but I don't see that so much now. I think he's possibly depressed, but I also think he feels that so much of his time is spent care-taking me or the children that he has no time for himself any more. That is why I originally suggested we send our youngest to daycare for a couple of days a week - to give him that time. So I suppose I could also say that as much as I want to GAL for myself, I'd like to see him GAL too and I want to stop getting in the way of that, if I am, but I don't want to do it for him, either (of course I couldn't, but I mean, I know I can't and I don't want to try).
I dont recall you mentioning any BDs from your H...so that's great.
I say as far as him not initiating sex....if you feel its appropriate for your sitch, you can do a 180 in that area by not initiating for a while. But maybe start "speaking" his love language more instead (if you haven't read 5 love languages you may want to check that out). "Speaking" his love language may cause him to "wake up" and begin to be more intimate with you in return.
Other 180s for that you can do fornyour self that may also benefit your sex life... working out, maybe go out and buy your self a few new outfits....also some new "night time" outfits for bed if your current ones arent so eye catching just do things for your self that make you feel good , they will help with that independence you want to find and I'm sure he'll begin to see a change and be attracted to that confidence as well.
GAL by yourself a couple times a week and do the things you love...a hobby you enjoy. That will help you with you indepenence as well. Sometimes invite your H...but even if he doesnt want to go, still go with out him. Then also find some GAL activities you can do with your kids since you want to work on the relationships with them as well.
That's great you see where the alcohol comes into play for your self and that you've ready decided to take a break from drinking.
me: 30 H:30 tgthr:7 m:4 no kids 5 counseling sessions initiated by H as a LR: Oct 2012 long distance marriage b/c of work since Nov 2012 official BD: July 2013 nothing filed 1/1/14 I dropped the rope
How are you going to work on the WHY of your alcohol use?
I know I am not physically dependent because when I don't drink for a few days, or a couple of weeks - whatever - I suffer no physical withdrawal symptoms whatsoever. I have professional experience in this area. And it matters inasmuch as I know while I may need social and emotional support and therapy to control my drinking, I am not in medical need of withdrawal support. Why do you ask? Am I misunderstanding what you're asking me?
The why of my alcohol use - good question. At the moment I am looking for ways to GAL, look after myself, treat myself, care for myself that don't involve booze nor unreasonable emotional demands on my husband. I actually made a list this afternoon!
@Mimi - no, no BDs - or rather, ones said in anger or while drunk, but quickly brushed under the carpet. As was said before, there's no honest communication when drink is involved - for both me and him. But I do feel that it's only going to take one more argument - or perhaps an external crisis - financial, children being ill, something like that - to finish us off. I do feel like he's dangling by a thread, and only in the house because he's not got resources to move elsewhere right now.
I love your suggestions for 180s. I think he does need to be pursued a little. To be honest, I have no idea how to do this. But I can work on finding out. A bit of trial and error. And certainly a hair cut and a new set of clothes never hurt anyone.
I was GALing out with friends this evening. They don't know the situation and I didn't speak about it. They'd just had some good news, so we spoke mainly about them, but it was fun and happy and I felt good when I came home.
I am back. It has been a very long time since I've posted.
I think we're still on the brink - and perhaps the brink is the only place we'll ever be.
We sleep separately, there's very little sex, we do spend time together when I initiate it, but we don't when I don't make it happen.
His complaints are the same - mainly to do with me being controlling and him not having enough space. I have withdrawn as much as I can while still living in the same house, and the result is that we're having an in-house separation in all but name.
I'm not sure what he wants. I do ask - but he seems to experience my asking as pressure, or control. He seems happier when I leave him alone. I GAL, which means I have friends, interests and hobbies that I really enjoy pursuing, and time alone with both my children - again, which I enjoy. But this seems to drive us further apart. I have worked a lot on my communication and I've been really good with my boundary of speaking respectfully to him and not allowing him to speak disrespectfully to me. Which means we don't talk, because often when we speak he does nasty sarcastic impressions of me, or interrupts me to tell me that I am mentally ill and can't be trusted (I do have a history of a mental illness, which was treated and is resolved and I have tools for maintaining my health which I implement daily - exercise, meditation, etc) or he tells me what I think and feel (not always accurate) and then responds as if that's the truth. It's like he's carrying on a conversation with himself sometimes. So I leave.
There's not really been a BD. He's made it clear to me he does not trust my perception of things, that he wants more time alone and separate lives, and he's here for the kids. This isn't mind-reading - this is what he verbally says to me when I try to initiate conversation about improving our relationship. I am still the main wage earner and he does not work, but is at home with the kids. They're both in full time school now.
I feel like I am heading towards a BD of my own. I believe that he deserves support and patience because many of our problems relate to how I behaved when I was sick, and my refusal to seek treatment for too long. That was my fault. I have corrected it but of course the impact on him isn't just going to disappear because I want it to. I also feel resentful that I am here, willing, financially supporting all of us, ready to listen and make changes, and he seems to be content with the situation as it is even though he knows I am unhappy. He is not having an affair (to my knowledge - I don't believe he is and have no suspicions) but it feels like cake-eating to me anyway. It seems he has all the benefits of being married (the stability, the security, the house, the ability to choose not to be in paid work) without any of the responsibilities of being a husband. But I don't want him to be a husband because he 'owes' me. I want a partner and I want him to want me. I don't think he does, and I am still here, two years later, and that feels hard - like I'm selling myself out and losing my integrity.
I know I am at the very least 50% responsible for where we are and I want to put in 100% effort. At the same time, I resent him assuming that I will continue to financially support him into the long term when the marriage seems to be a practical convenience for him. He very badly wants to do a training course that starts next year. This is a huge improvement for him and really positive. I've not actually seen him want anything for himself and his own enjoyment for a long time. I think it's a good decision and suited to his interests and abilities. I do want him to be able to achieve his goals. But (no mind-reading) it appears his plan is for me to financially support him in that while knowing he is not really 'in' our marriage.
I suppose we could carry on like this for years and years. But I don't want to. I'd prefer to improve things rather than end things but I don't know how to improve things without a basic of respect and participation from him, and I don't have that.
just do things for your self that make you feel good