Dreading the holidays.....

[vows4ever]

I've been trying really hard to just live my life and move on as if H wasn't a part of my life anymore. And I have to say I was doing pretty well for a while. Then my 46th birthday rolled around last week and I know I shouldn't have expected anything, but it really hit me hard when I didn't even get a text wishing me a happy bday. He just acts like I don't exist and that I meant nothing to him all these years.

And now I'm facing Thanksgiving, Christmas & New Years and I am dreading them. Normally, I love these holidays - the decorations, the music, the gift giving, the family get-togethers, cooking the big meals for the whole family. But this year it will just be me. I don't have any family left here anymore as both of my parents have passed away and my brother and sister live in other states. I will be going over to a friend's house for Thanksgiving dinner, but they won't be having their dinner until Friday because of other family coming in from out of town. So, I will be alone on Thanksgiving day.

I am going to stay with my brother for Christmas and I am looking forward to getting away for a while and seeing them. But I am also dreading Christmas because this will be the first one without H in 22 years. Christmas has always been so special to us. He proposed to me on Christmas morning 16 years ago. And we've always made each Christmas so special.

Does anyone know how the MLCers deal with the holidays? I know some people dealing with depression tend to have a hard time over the holidays. But what about the MLCers? Do they get even more depressed or act more bazaar? Do they withdraw even more from family and friends? Or do they go in the opposite direction and act more manic than usual? I'd like to know what I might have to deal with.

Any words of wisdom would be so appreciated!!

[job]

vows,
It's time to create some new traditions. You can always go to a movie, volunteer at a soup kitchen, a homeless shelter, a nursing home and visit w/the patients, or even a woman's shelter. During the holidays, these places need quite a number of volunteers and I have to say that I've done it quite often over the years and it is very rewarding in the sense that you can put a smile back on a person's face as well as feel good about yourself in helping someone in more need than yourself.

Now, the answer your other questions, it depends upon the MLCer has to how they react to holidays. Some getting really nutty and have more contact w/the LBS and others tend to avoid the holidays like the plaque. Again, some withdraw from family because they don't want to be reminded of what they've left behind and the guilt really tears them up. Others, well...they just ignore the guilt and bust on.

Generally from Halloween to St. Patrick's Day, you can expect odd behavior from MLCers. Some really miss home and family and will want more contact than ever. Others, will act out and try to make your life miserable if they can. Around Christmas Holidays, especially the days leading up to New Year's will be the time when many newbies have the bomb dropped on them w/respect to their MLCers wanting to leave and they don't love you like they use to. Why? Because they want to start out the new year right and be single once again.

There are many holidays between Halloween and St. Patrick's Day which means anything can happen during those times. My advice is not to worry about it and if something does happen, you can then determine how to handle it.

Vows, think about doing something different this year. I know it's a difficult time for you and you should try to find things to do so that you aren't alone.

The most important thing is to take care of yourself and let the future take care of itself as well.

[vows4ever]

Thanks for responding Job! I really appreciate your advice.

I am going to be doing lots of different things this year. I have great friends that are helping me through the tough times and I am so grateful for them! My brother and his wife are having me stay with them over Christmas and even paid for my plane ticket!

I guess I am just trying to gain some control over my life again and that's why I was wondering what to expect over the holidays. He has been so unpredictable from the beginning, but he seemed like he was starting to come around for a little while. Then in late Sept., the weekend before what would have been our 15th wedding anniversary, he took off on his motorcycle and wrecked it and ended up in the hospital. Since then, he's been so distant and angry. He won't face me or talk to me (unless his mother is with him). He claims he wants a D and is willing to sit down to discuss dividing our assets, but I can't get him to actually sit down to discuss. He just avoids.

And like I said before, I didn't even get a text from him. He seemed to have disappeared for over a week.

And now with the holidays coming up, I need to speak to him about my trip because he will need to take care of the fur-babies while I'm away. I just hope he's capable of being responsible enough to do this.

[job]

Vows,
I'm not surprised he is saying he wants a divorce and wants to discuss the division of assets and yet, you can't get him to sit down and do so. Typical mlc behavior. Unless you are ready to move ahead w/the divorce, I would sit quietly and see if he will reach out to you. You can't make or push him into meeting w/you because the guilt is eating him up right now. Can you monitor your bills/assets and if things start to get out of hand. If they begin to get out of hand, you may need to take action to move things over into your name so that he doesn't go off on a wild life excursion spending money on stupid stuff.

I will say this, holidays, anniversaries and special events that mean something to the both of you will become times of avoidance for him. He may even do some acting out around those times, just to annoy you or make you angry and miserable, just as he is. Don't ever think for one minute that he's forgotten your anniversary and other special dates because he hasn't. He just won't admit that he remembers them at the moment. So, keep your expectations at zero and do not expect any type of recognition for those special times. If, by chance, he does recognize them...well...it will be a pleasant surprise for you. Okay?

I'm glad to see that you have the holidays covered and will not be alone. I think it was very nice of your brother and his wife to ask you to stay w/them and what a pleasant surprise...your ticket is paid for.

Now, I'm going to give you a little bit of advice here. You can ask him about taking care of your fur babies, but I would have a back up plan because these mlcers are not very responsible or reliable. I, personally, think you should consider asking someone else to watch over them while you are gone. After all, they are your babies and they do need TLC while you are gone. Again, ask him, but keep your expectations at zero and definitely have a Plan B in place.

[vows4ever]

I totally agree Job! In fact, that is exactly what I've been doing regarding the D. Some of my friends wonder why I don't just call his bluff and start the process myself. But I have no intention of doing his work for him. If he really wants out, he will have to do the work. He put us in this sitch so he needs to be the one to take care of it. I don't want a D, he SAYS he does. So he will have to "man up" or continue to avoid. The ball is in his court.

So you really think he does recognize and remember the special dates like our anniversary, etc.? I guess I thought they just blocked all that stuff out, kind of erased it from their minds. It's really scary how their brains work (or not work!!).

I think you are right about having a Plan B in place!! He has been consistently inconsistent this whole time, so I will be sure to line up a backup plan before I leave!!!

[job]

Vow,
They do remember everything about their past life. If you send him letters, emails, cards or give him gifts, he will keep them. Some even keep the wrapping paper!

Generally in the early stages of mlc they will not talk about those special times, especially if you have an angry monster. I know that after I met up w/my xh 6 years after he walked out the second time, he asked me if I had gone "Black Friday" shopping that morning. I just looked at him and told him that I didn't do that any longer. My xh began wishing me a happy birthday and greetings for the holidays about 4 years ago. So, yes, they do remember a lot more than you think.

Their minds are like a bunch of twisted or scrambled wires that are sparking all over the place. Sometimes their minds race and they have no control over their thoughts or emotions and other times, they are like zombies staring into space. There is no way to predict which personality you will be speaking to at any given time. But, I can assure you, in time, you'll be able to tell when he opens his mouth to speak or by his body language (if you happen to be in his presence). It takes time, but you'll figure it out.

I agree...if he wants a divorce, then he should be doing the work. You can provide whatever paperwork you need to do, but put the responsibility of the divorce on him.

I would definitely have a Plan B in place. I know how much I love my babies and I sure wouldn't want a 2 year old promising to watch them and then don't show up to feed and water them. You'll feel better and enjoy your trips more if you have someone else to follow through on this for you.

[vows4ever]

Job,

That is so interesting that they keep letters, cards, etc. I have left notes for him on the dining room table and he takes them and if he bothers to respond, he will leave a separate note. I just thought he threw them away. I did leave him a birthday card for him and he took that as well. I had bought tickets to a comedy show that he wanted to see and put his ticket in his card. He never acknowledged it, so I assumed he just threw it away. When it came time for the comedy show, I sent him a text asking if he wanted to go or if not, I'd like the ticket back so I could find someone else to go with me. He responded and said he'd leave the ticket on the dining room table, which he did do.

Why do they hold onto these things if they don't want the LBS or the life they shared? Why do they say they want a D when their actions say otherwise? If they're confused (and there's no doubt that they are!!), then why don't they just say they need some time and space to clear their heads and deal with whatever their issues are?

If this wasn't so painful, it would be fascinating. I have to say that I am so grateful for this site because it validates what I've seen and experienced with H. At first, I really thought I was losing my mind!! It's amazing that these MLCers all seem to follow nearly the same script, almost word for word!!

[job]

Vows,
They hold on those items because it is a line to their old lives. MLCers do not want to lose that one little string that is still attached to the apron of their old lives. They pull those items out every so often and reflect on them.

They want a divorce because they think that by separating and moving on, their lives will be so much better. They look at us as their parents or authority figures and once they go back in time, they begin rebelling like a toddler or a teenager does when they think parents aren't getting it and allowing them to do what they want. Their feelings for us are then stuffed way down into their souls and their issues begin to rise and take over. Truthfully, I honestly don't think that they ever stop loving us, but the issues take over and their opposite selves take over. Some do walk away and never divorce. Sting use to post on here. Her had went MLCing and they aren't divorced and she's been on her on just about 14 years.

You have to remember that each and every person goes through a life's transition and those that don't navigate them well are more than likely to have a full blown crisis at some point. Each person is different, each crisis is different and how they handle they crisis will be very unique and yet have similar traits of others.

So, yes, it's a painful journey, but when you get to the other side, it can be fascinating to watch from afar to see just what they will say or do next.

[vows4ever]

Well I survived Thanksgiving! I am so thankful that I have such wonderful friends who included me in their family get-together. Although I really missed spending it with H and his family, it wasn't as hard as I was afraid it would be thanks to my wonderful friends.

I did send H a text simply wishing him a Happy Thanksgiving. I didn't hear back from him that day which did hurt, but he finally responded the next day wishing me a Happy belated Thanksgiving. If I had to guess, he waited until he was away from his mother before he responded since he is always much nicer when he is away from her.

I sent a text asking him to stop by the house this past weekend because I needed to talk to him about a few things. I wanted to let him know I was going out of town for Christmas and to make arrangements for him to take care of our fur-babies whiling I'm gone. I also had a few other things to discuss with him while I had him in front of me for a few minutes. But I didn't want to "discuss" these things through a text.

But, surprise, he never replied and he never showed up. I finally sent another text after I had enough time to cool off and asked him if he got the text I sent last week asking him to stop by. I said that I hoped it had just slipped his mind and that he wasn't avoiding me. I got a response that time! He said Saturday was the only day he could stop by this week because of work and wanted to know what was so urgent. He claims he isn't avoiding me - yeah, right!

I responded back that it wasn't urgent, just important and that I was glad he wasn't avoiding me, but when he doesn't respond like that, it feels like he is.

So I guess we shall see if he shows up or not on Saturday. Maybe he will surprise me, but I'll believe it when I see it!

I really am dreading the Christmas holiday though. I usually love this time of year, but I'm just not in the spirit this year. Usually, I love listening to the Christmas music and watching the Christmas shows but this year I can't bring myself to listen to or watch any of these. I'm excited to be seeing my brother at Christmas, but I'm dreading my first Christmas and New Years in 23 years without H.

I have decorated inside, but normally we decorate outside (and we usually win the decorating contest or come in 2nd each year). But this year there are no decorations outside. Only candles in the windows. The house looks great once you get inside, but it's depressing when I pull up in the driveway.

But, I just have to keep telling myself that I can survive this. As they say, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I should be able to bench press a Buick by now!!!

[BrightFuture]

Vows, holidays are tough, no question. It is the second year for me and I still feel sad.

My H did this to me during the first 6 months after BD, not responding to my texts sometimes and ignoring me. This year, he didn’t acknowledge the Mother’s day, which I thought was kind of weird because he wanted us to be “the best friends”.

Job posted a lot of good info on your thread. I’ve read all of it and I can definitely benefit from it for my sitch. My H said he was done with us last October and wanted to file for D back in April. He wanted to do it together. I told him to bring me the paper work and I would pass it to my lawyer. He didn’t like the lawyer idea. I haven’t heard anything about D since then. He treats me like don’t exist some times, and other times he is very nice and polite. I’m taking Job’s advice and sitting quite, waiting for him to initiate any motions.

It is great that you are spending the Christmas with your brother. I’ve learnt that family means a lot during this trying times.

[vows4ever]

Thanks BF, you are so right that Job has given some really great info. I have read and printed anything and everything I can get my hands on about MLC since BD and have filled a 3 inch binder with articles, etc. that I found online. Between the great info and advice I see on this site and the reference material I have found that I re-read all the time, these are the things that help me through this. It reminds me that I am not alone and that this is not my fault. It helps to keep me empathetic toward H, especially when I just want to throttle him!!!

I don't have a very big family since both of my parents are gone. My brother and his family live in Texas and my sister and her family live in Washington state. And you are so right BF, family does mean a lot during this painful time, even if we are so spread apart! I have a few cousins here in Virginia, but we're not that close. Thank God I have some really great friends who are my extended family!! They have been such a blessing to me!!

I try to stay quiet and live my own life while I continue to stand. I only reach out to him when I really need something (which is very rare these days) or when it's a holiday or his birthday by wishing him a happy whatever. I guess I do that just to keep my foot in the door. I don't know if I should be doing that or not, but I feel like I should let him know that I still care and I'm still here. I don't know if that makes things worse or if it helps chip away the distance between us.

Everyone have a great day! I think I'll go bench press a Buick before heading to work this morning!!!

[vows4ever]

Well, it's been a while since I've posted on here. I survived the holidays and actually enjoyed my time with my brother and his family. The down side of my trip was that I caught a cold or upper respiratory infection and I can't seem to get rid of it.

H did take care of the pets while I was gone so I'm grateful for that. As a thank you, I did bring a T-shirt back for him and left it on the dining room table with a note thanking him for taking care of things while I was gone. He took the shirt and note, but never said thanks or even acknowledge receiving it.

It's coming up on the 1 year anniversary since BD. I have to admit that I have had several days lately where I feel like I'm losing patience with the whole process. I just get so tired of feeling like I don't exist and I'm tired of dealing with only text messages because he can't deal with having an adult conversation. I catch myself wondering if he will ever work his way thru this and if so, will I still be here? Then I start playing the "what if" game until I've worked myself into a minor panic attack as I feel everything is so out of control and I have no control on the outcome. I hate feeling I have no control over any of this.

But then I have to remember that I do have a choice and I can control my reactions to all of this. I did not choose this path, but I do choose to stay on this path and see where it takes me. I know that I love my H and I choose to believe that somewhere deep down he loves me as well. And for now, that is enough to help me continue hoping for the best outcome while I continue to use this time to GAL and be the best me I can be!

Well, I've been practicing my bench pressing a Buick so much lately that I've moved up to bench pressing a school bus now!! Lol

[BrightFuture]

Vows, welcome back. I hope you feel better soon.

At least your H took a note. My H was in the house painting doors (unfinished business) a few months after BD. I left him a note thanking him for taking care of it, and he thrown it in the garbage. Throughout the last year I was forwarding him his mail and doing things for our business, and I rarely got thanks for that. Actually he never said thanks for the mail.

He also was communicating mostly via text and e-mail.

He started to be a lot nicer recently. He started be more elaborate and polite in his e-mails, thanking me more for stuff I do for him. He also started calling me more often instead of e-mailing.

So, hang in there. It could also change with your H. You just never know. Oh, and I’ve learnt not to try to control the outcome. Yes, you can control your reactions. Keep moving forward.

[vows4ever]

It's been almost a year since I found out about the OW and then BD. I feel like we are farther apart then ever. H won't talk to me, avoids seeing me at all cost and now his texts are becoming so few and far between. I have no idea if there is an OW anymore or what he is doing these days. He still lives with his mother, 6 months after his motorcycle accident. He's back to work at full duty, so he's not living there because of any
lingering medical issues. And as I've said before, it is not a good thing that he's still there because she is so controlling (which is what he accused me of being after BD).

I've worked hard to work through my own depression issues with IC and the right meds over this past year. I feel I have been successfully GAL and doing things for myself instead of moping or worring about what H is doing. My friend and I have been getting hormone replacement treatments and I must say that I am feeling like my much younger self! I have more energy now, I feel more interested in life and my sex drive is back!! While I was depressed over the last few years, I had absolutely NO interest in sex. I felt empty inside and was barely functioning from one day to the next. At the time, I thought I was in control of my life, but looking back now I can see that I was simply going through the motions and not really living. Now, I am beginning to live again, looking forward to the future, enjoying everyday life - that is until lately. Lately,
I have been feeling anxious, lonely and losing hope that my M will survive.

I really thought that my H was in MLC because he seemed to be following the same script I've seen so many on here discuss. But other than a somewhat controlling mother, I don't know of any unresolved childhood issues that could be a trigger for his MLC. I do think he suffers from some PTSD issues - some from his work (he's in law enforcement), some from being in the fire department, and from when we found my mother and he tried to perform CPR to save her. I think he has felt so much guilt that he couldn't save her and that he let me down. He was also under so much pressure at work right before BD as well. He was up for a big promotion and was also involved in a few volunteer organizations that demanded a lot of work and commitment from him. Maybe he cracked under the pressure and fell into the MLC?????? Or did he fall out of love with me while I was in my depression fog and I've been fooling myself thinking he was in MLC?? I just don't know anymore.

I don't know if I'm just feeling this way because it's coming up on the anniversary of BD or if it really is over... How do you tell the difference?? If he is in MLC, why has he pulled so far away from me, us, the M?? If he is in MLC, will he be able to forgive himself for the things he has done and said, or will they only prolong his journey?

Sorry for the rambling and the pity party tonight. I guess I need some reassuring that I will survive this. Any advice or suggestions are welcome!!!

[TL72*]

Vows,
I read your post and think to myself this will be me in a year.
Mine just left a few weeks ago and BD was in Jan so I am so in the early stages.
From what I understand, they do this when in MLC, it takes years. Literally years and they DO distance themselves and act this way. That's why it is so important to GAL which it sounds like you're doing. You WILL survive, look how far you've come already! Don't second guess yourself, none of this is your fault. Sometimes it helps to re-read all the MLC resources. That totally confirmed for me that my H was in MLC and that his weird behavior is what he's going through and there's nothing I can do to fix it. There is a whole withdrawal stage that perhaps your H is in. There is no real time frame so all you can do is leave him alone until he comes to you. Unfortunately we don't know if that will ever happen - really messes with your mind for sure. I keep thinking how can my H just throw away this entire relationship, I didn't even get a hug good bye, I got a see ya later. When? when you come out of the tunnel? It's hard not to have a pity party once in awhile. I think about how long this is going to take and I wonder if I can make it. Of course I can, what choice do I have - it's all part of living so I will GAL and IF he decides to contact me in the future, I'll deal with it then. If he doesn't, well I'll be ok because i'll have new things I'm doing with my life. I'm sorry you're going through this too and I'm sorry it takes so darn long. It's not your fault. Take it one day at a time. Keep posting!

[job]

vow,
I'm sorry you are having a difficult time..but, if he's in MLC, it takes years (5-7 or longer)for them to see the light of day. I know that a year sounds like a long time, but in mlc time...it's a blip on the radar screen for them. Replay can take a long time and it continues until they begin to face their childhood issues and work on them.

The issues from childhood may not be something you are privy to because he was a child and he may not remember them until something happened to "trigger" his re-evaluation of his life. You've mentioned a few triggers that may have started his journey.

I suggest that you read up on MLC and if you've not read the "Welcome" posting that Cadet usually puts out for newbies, I'll be happy to locate a copy and post it here. If he is in mlc, he's following the normal path and it's a very long journey. Your journey began the day of the BD and now you need to keep your focus on you and what you need to do to survive. Dig out that list of hobbies and projects that you've put aside and start working on them. It's time to start working on you and getting you to a better place.

We use the same techniques for both MLC and Walkaways, i.e., give them plenty of space, only contact them in emergencies, listen to what they say and learn to sift through what they are saying for they do tell on themselves...but most importantly...focus on you.

[Cadet]

Heres a link to your first thread and it has my welcome post on it

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...018#Post2368018

[vows4ever]

Hi TL! Thanks for stopping by and for the encouragement! It has been a while since I've had a melt down, so things seemed to sneak up on me this time! I KNOW this is not my fault - at least not all my fault. I did have my own issues that did affect our R, but I've faced them and worked through them and now I'm in a much better place emotionally for having done so.

I'm sorry for the circumstances that brought you here, but I am glad you did find this group. I don't post very often, but I do get on here all the time and read the other sitches. There are some awesome folks on here with great advice and insight. And I do read and re-read the articles and books I have collected since BD. They do validate that this is his journey and I can't help him fix it. I think I was just feeling lonely, having a panic attack and started my pity party!! You know, before this happened to me I never realized just how "real" and destructive this MLC stuff really was! I always thought MLC was the old man in a bright red convertible with a much younger woman trying to act and look much younger than he really is. I guess I really thought it was all just an excuse or a joke - boy was I wrong on so many levels!!!

Job, once again I appreciate you checking in and helping me hold it together! Intellectually, I know it could take years to complete this journey, but sometimes my heart needs some reassuring - well, maybe a LOT of reassuring!!!! I really think his crisis began 1 1/2 to 2 years before BD. I saw some changes in him during that period of time that I didn't think of as signs of a crisis, but looking back on it now I really think the signs were all there. He started exercising more, dressing younger, listening to younger music and he seemed restless and would get angry over the smallest things. These didn't happen all at one time but rather gradually so I missed the signs. I read somewhere that their journey begins quite a while before BD but I don't know whether the 5 - 7 years (or longer) includes this time or is in addition to this time. I guess it is
a case by case situation. Either way, I know I have a long journey ahead myself and I guess I just wanted or needed some reassurance!

One of the few times I was actually able to speak to H, just before Christmas, I asked him to meet with me. I was going to Texas to spend Christmas with my brother and his family and I wanted to go over a few things with him. He didn't want to meet with me at the house, but offered to meet me at McDonald's. When I asked him why he couldn't or didn't want to talk to me, all he could say was (after a long pause) "...I don't know...". That was the first thing he's said to me that I truly believe was the complete truth in a long time. He still hasn't faced me or really spoken to me since. He will only text and even that has become so rare.

I've rambled enough tonight. Thanks again so much TL and Job for your encouragement and support!! This is exactly why I love this group!!!!

[BrightFuture]

Vows, I remember having the same feelings at about the same time, 1 year after the BD. Sometimes H didn’t contact me for long periods of time. The only thing that we communicated about was the business. It felt like he was avoiding me too, and there was no OW.

Like job said, this takes a long time. Let your H continue on his journey and take care of youself.

[vows4ever]

Hi everyone. It's been a long time since I last posted, but I have been reading everyday and living my life one day at a time. For the most part, there hasn't been much change in my sitch...until recently. H is back in the hospital for the 3rd time since BD. Each time it seems to be worse. This time, his blood sugar was over 800. He passed out at his mothers and she found him last Tuesday morning unconscious with no idea how long he had been there. And when he fell, he broke his shoulder. While at the hospital, he had a seizure and was medically sedated to prevent another seizure. The doctor told him and his family that he was very lucky because by all rights, he should not be alive right now. And if he doesn't start taking care of himself and something like this happens again, he will not survive it.

I am so stressed out and worried about him. He seems to be on a self-destructive mission lately. I know that I didn't break him and I can't fix him - at least I keep telling myself this. But something's got to change. I can't just stand by and watch him die. I couldn't live with myself if that happened.

I haven't been to the hospital to see him. I don't want to make things worse. But it is taking every ounce of strength I have to stay away. I cry myself to sleep every night - unless I finally give in and take a sleeping pill.

How do I keep doing this? How much farther is he going to take this? Should I go to the hospital to see him? Would this make things worse for him and make him feel pressured and resent me even more (if that's possible) or would he appreciate the visit and realize that I still care? I just don't know what to do anymore. HELP!!!!!!

[2BHappy]

Hello Vows,,

I have not read your whole story, but my 2cents is I would go to visit your H, just a quick visit while he is in hospital.

You would probably check in on a sick friend, so just visit your sick friend (H) in the hospital.

[job]

Vows,
I'm sorry to read that your h is still on his self destructive path. I do hope that this last visit to the hospital will be a wake up call for him. He evidently thinks that he's a teenager w/super human skills and doesn't need to monitor his sugar level. I sincerely hope that he listened to the doctor and comes to his senses. This is nothing to play with.

I'm sure you are stressed to the max, but you have no control over him and what he does these days. Yes, I agree, something has to change, but he's the only one that can make the necessary changes in his life.

How were things between the two of you before this latest trip to the hospital? Does he have a phone in his room? If so, you might want to call first to see how he is doing and if he needs anything. If he sounds like he's happy to hear form you, then you might consider a very short visit. I would hate to see you go there w/good intentions and he throw a fit and treat you poorly.

Vows, your intentions are good, but some of them do not want us to be around them when they are ill or in the hospital. They only want their "family/close friends" there. Yes, this hurts and yes, you are his spouse, but in the mind of a crisis person, we are no longer a part of that "family".

Just my two cents.

[Lifes Twists]

Vows,

I agree with job. My wife has been in the hospital several times while this has gone on. I did the visit thing, not appreciated. I sent things I knew she needed, not appreciated. I picked up things she needed form her apartment, not appreciated. Right now they don't really see you as a person trying to help, but as a problem they want to go away. They may even see anything you do as persuing. The advice that we all get here to leave them alone on their own path is the right one. You can't save them from their own personal wreckage. They need to do it them selves. Ask yourself what a neighbor would do. In most cases nothing unless they were really close.

[beatrice]

Job and Lifes Twists are both right, BUT the fact that we didn't visit is also used against us in the future 'You didn't even visit me . . . .' Basically, like teenagers, they are experts at creating no win situations in which they are the victim.

[vows4ever]

Hi Job! Thanks so much for talking me down from the ledge! I was having a panic attack and of course second guessing myself this morning. I had originally planned to stay away but then I began over-thinking as I always do and was afraid if I didn't stop by he would take that as I don't care enough to check in on him. I know....stop trying to make sense of the nonsense!

We haven't had much contact at all over the last month or two. So I really have no idea what his state of mind was like. I've just given him his space and stayed dark.

On a positive note, he was released from the hospital this afternoon. He goes back on Friday for his out-patient surgery on his shoulder. I do think this episode opened his eyes this time - at least I sure hope so. The doctor told him and his family that if an episode like this happens again, his body could not survive it.

Thanks so much for checking in on me and pulling me back on the right path!!!

[vows4ever]

Hi LT! Thanks so much for stopping by. And you are so right...we can't save them from their own wreckage but OMG it is so hard to stand by and watch the fall-out! But in the end, I know everyone is right, but it sure doesn't make it any easier to watch the train wreck that was once a vibrant, loving husband as he self-destructs.

And I didn't even think how it may look like pursuing to him, but you make a very good point there. Thanks so much for recognizing that!

[vows4ever]

Hi Bea! That is an excellent point - they are like teenagers creating no win situations where they are the victims. And I guess since he is living with his mother who is now coddling him and defending his self-destructive behaviors, he gets a free pass to act like a reckless teenager again.

I just hope that this doesn't prevent him from working his way through this tunnel.

[vows4ever]

Hi Everyone, it's been a while since my last post, but not much has really changed in the last month.

Today is H's birthday. I am struggling with whether I should send a text wishing him a happy birthday or just stay dark.

Most days I'm doing OK and feel strong and independent but little things creep up on me and set me back a step or two. Just the other day, I asked him to pick up some of the special dog treats I give our dog if he was going to be near the pet store, if not I would make the trip to get them. He did pick them up and then left them on his brother's front porch (B-I-L lives next door to me) instead of bringing them to the house because I was home... and then sent me a text to tell me where he left them. REALLY??? Who does that??? I don't know why, but that really upset me for some reason. I had a little melt down. Why is he avoiding me like a school age boy hides from girls??

Knowing the holidays are coming up again is not helping this situation. Not to mention that our wedding anniversary is coming up in a couple of weeks.

I thought I was doing so well, but now I feel like I'm struggling again.

Some days I feel like I can and will stand for our M however long it takes. Then there are days that I fear that he will never come out of this. He AVOIDS everything that pertains to me, our M, our home. He says he wants a D, but then can't/won't meet with me face to face to discuss what we each want or anything.

AVOIDANCE, AVOIDANCE, AVOIDANCE!!!! That's the name of the game around here and it's wearing me down...

Back to my original question.... should I send him a text wishing him a HB, or should I just pretend it's just another day?

I really hate this...I really do.

Any suggestions, comments or advice would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks for stopping by and letting me rant a bit today!

[job]

Your h sounds like my xh who would drive 40 miles one way to put an addressed letter in my mailbox, minus the stamp. Yes, I was home too when he did this. It's avoidance because they can't be around us, they don't want to hear our voices and/or be reminded of their guilt for what they are doing. It use to upset me until I realized what was going on and then it didn't bother me any longer.

I know that what he did about the dog treats hurt, but try to not take it personally and realize that while acting out as a teenager, he's going to avoid you "mom" as long as possible. He knows that what he's doing is very wrong and he just can't face you right now.

How do you feel about sending him a simple note? If you would normally send birthday greetings to people, then by all means send him a very simple text something like this, "Happy Birthday, have a great day" and nothing more. If you do send it, be prepared for him not to respond back. You'll need to keep your expectations at zero because he's still acting out. Even though he won't admit it, he will be disappointed if you don't recognize it's his birthday, i.e., just like a kid. Don't ever think that they forget those special dates of ours, especially anniversaries. Any and all missives are kept to look at again and again by him.

[LoisB]

Vow,

My H's b'day was on Monday. I chose to send a short Happy B'day text because it hurt when I didn't receive one. I didn't get a response.

I thought I was prepared when I sent it...just putting some good wishes out there and letting him know I remembered. However, it still hurt when I didn't receive a reply and I caught myself checking my phone...something I haven't done in months.

Put your heart first. If you think it will make you crazier when he doesn't acknowledge the kindness, then let it go. Try to keep perspective on who he is right now...the guy who left the dog treats at the neighbors!

Our H's sound similar in their avoidance. Mine has simply gone MIA. Try to look at him as he is today.

[Georgiabelle]

Vow,

Great advice from Job and Heather. Don't allow your "what ifs" to change what you do. If you typically send birthday greetings, send a simple greeting. Again, don't let your h's behavior dictate simple gestures.

The sooner you set expectations at zero or gosh darn close to zero, the better you will feel. Hang in there!

[vows4ever]

Thanks everyone!! I decided to send the simple text "Happy Birthday! Hope you have a good day." And surprise!!! He DID respond with "Thanks". So I feel much better that I did send it - not because he responded, but because I realize that I would have regretted not wishing him well today. I really do want him to be happy - whether it's with me or not. And I do think Job was right and he would have missed not getting that from me and think that I don't care anymore. I just didn't want it to look or feel like I was pursuing him. I didn't have any expectations when I sent him the simple text - in fact I really didn't think he would acknowledge it as usual. So it was a nice little surprise for me today. It's funny how something so little can make such a difference. It just validated that I did the right thing.

So, now I will go back to being dark again and lean on my friends to get me through the next hurdle - our 16th wedding anniversary on 9/26. What do you all do to get through this tough day? Last year I met a girlfriend for dinner and then came home - alone. It was a tuff day. This year, it falls on a Friday...what to do, what to do.

I was talking with a girlfriend of mine the other night. She's in a little rough patch with her man and asked me how I've been able to deal with my sitch for a year and a half! She's going out of her mind and her sitch is NOTHING like MLC and she doesn't feel she could keep going through this for as long as I've been dealing with H's MLC. I told her that a person never really knows just how strong they really are until they are put in a position where they have to be strong.

Anyway, I've had a few invitations to join some friends for some girl's nights out and I'm looking forward to them!!

Thanks again for the great advice and for helping me stay afloat!! This standing is really hard sometimes and I need to be reminded that this time is a gift and I need to take advantage of it!

[vows4ever]

Hi all.
It's been a while since my last post. I've been GALing and trying to enjoy my life while H continues to spin out of control. Two weeks after he got out of the hospital after nearly dying (and of course he went home with his mother), he filed for D. I just received the papers a week ago. He's filed a contested D in a different court jurisdiction. I can just hear his mother's voice telling him that this situation was killing him and he needed to get the divorce started (because as you've heard me say before, she blames me for all of this). He still will not talk to me about how to divide the marital assets, etc. He is so deep into avoidance it's ridiculous.

The holidays are rolling around again. Not only does this time of the year affect the MLCer, it also affects the LBS as well. I will be traveling again this holiday to visit my sister and her family in the northwest right before Christmas. I couldn't get off this year for Christmas, so I will be home alone this year on Christmas day. I'm so not looking forward to this holiday season.

Does anyone have any advice on how to handle this contested D? I'm a very private person and don't want to have my personal business put out there for everyone to gawk at. He chose the court district, I believe, because he's a police officer and has had court cases in the other jurisdictions but not in this court.

Why can't he man-up and just do the right thing?? I think I've done what he's wanted by leaving him alone, stayed away when he was in the hospital, living my own life. But he is still so angry at me. I came home from work early a couple of weeks ago and found him at the house. When I tried to open the front door, he opened the main door, looked at me with such anger, said he was "out of here" and pushed by me, turning his shoulder away from me like a little child trying to avoid the "cooties". SERIOUSLY??? When I asked him as he was walking away why he was so angry at me, he just shook his head and motioned his hands as if to say "not now". I then asked him what I ever did to piss him off and I got the same reaction. No eye contact and he never looked back.

Any advice or comments would be so much appreciated. I feel like I'm losing it again.

[Lifes Twists]

Do you know on what grounds he is filing a contested divorce? Does your state have a no fault divorce? Seems weird that he would file a contested divorce if he is the one that wants out. Maybe this will shed some light on why he is angry with you.

[vows4ever]

Hi LT,

We do live in a no fault state. From what I've read, the contested D is for those who have not or can not come to an agreeable division of assets. But I can't get him to sit down to discuss this because he wants to AVOID, AVOID, AVOID.

[job]

Vows,
I hate to tell you...but you aren't going to get him to sit down and discuss it. MLCers will not have rational conversations w/you about anything. Maybe he's hoping that by contesting the divorce he can drag it out and you'll give in to his demands of what he wants in the way of money and property.

As for him being angry, it's typical behavior and he'll be that way for a while, or at least until his fire burns out and he enters a new stage of his crisis.

I'm sorry he's acting this way, and it's frustrating to have to deal w/things the way they are.

[Lifes Twists]

Hi Vows,

You can have a no fault divorce where neither party will talk directly to the other. I agree with Job that he is trying to make the divorce as miserable for you as he can. Since he filed the divorce it will be up to him and his lawyer to craft some attempt at an agreement and then present it through your lawyer. Until then, you don't need to do a thing. Make sure you tell your lawyer that you do not want him or her to spend any time or effort until his lawyer presents some type of agreement. That you will not pay them for any effort to get one. It will be a waiting game for you. Once your lawyer gets it, I would not even read it for a month. Take your time and work through it and make decisions that are best for you at your own pace. My guess is your husband will try and take it all the way to court. Your game plan should be that your attorney spends as little time on it till then. No sense in paying for wasted effort. Your husband may eventually come around and be reasonable after it costs him a lot of cash.

[LoisB]

Vows,

It's hard being rejected by someone we considered our most trusted ally in this world. It's even worse when this person blames us for the rejection and seeks to punish us for things we don't understand.

Last night, I was cuddling our lab. I caught myself saying to her, "It's not your fault. You didn't do anything wrong."

For some reason, it's easier for me to see the senseless part of all this when looking at my dog. She didn't do anything at all. In fact, Smokey was the one who rescued her and argued that she was worth keeping. And, she, like the rest of us, was abandoned when he left. At one point, he accidentally called her by the OW's dog's name while visiting our D12.

Some of this is just senseless.

Remain in this moment. Know you aren't to blame. People aren't perfect, even in the best of marriages. The key is to accept responsibility for your own shortcomings and move to improve them--sadly, this seems to be something our spouses are unwilling or unable to do.

[vows4ever]

Thanks Job, LT and LB for your input. LT, I'm thinking that he filed a contested D so he can continue to AVOID, AVOID, AVOID. I think in a contested D, the responsibility for dividing everything up belongs with the court rather than the H and W. And I think you and Job are right in that he wants to make this as difficult as possible on me. He knows I don't want the D, but I would not fight the D if that's what he truly wanted. And I certainly don't want to air this all out in public.

The paperwork I received states that I have 21 days from date of service to file a response to his "reasons" for the D. If no response is received by the court, then it will be assumed by the court that I do not wish to contribute to the proceedings. My time is running out - I have until 11/13 to file a response.

He's left me completely broke, living off of what I make (which is 1/3 of what he makes) trying to pay the bills in my name which were incurred by both of us but in my name because I had better credit limits. He does currently pay the mortgage payment, but otherwise he doesn't help at all.

I HATE THIS MESS!!!!!

[Lifes Twists]

Hi Vows,

Do you have a lawyer? or are you trying to answer this response on your own?

Make sure you respond regardless and do it honestly. If he has accused you of things that are not true then make sure to defend yourself strongly.

Given the length of time you were married and if there are no real compelling reasons like having an affair on your side then I suspect the court will tend to favor you a bit. At worst it will be a 50 / 50 split which means for some period he will probably have to give you money to equal the living arrangements. So if he is making 70k and you are making 30k the court will probably split it up to where you are each having 50k for some period till you are on your feet. If he lies about you and it can be proven then it will go against him.

You said he was a police officer. I suspect he may few somehow that he is above the law and therefor it will fall his way. I have heard of other police officers doing what yours is doing and getting the short end in a divorce because they were to stubborn and blinded to see what they were doing would back fire.