Moving forward

[RockJC]

2ltl - It is good advice though. I doubt my W will notice, but eventually, I am sure someone else will.

[AJM]

I think I am handling things with as much grace as I can

I believe that. And I applaud that.

I'm just pointing out that there's more to go and trying to see if there is something you don't see. Maybe there is nothing I can help you see. Dunno. I can really only go off of what I do know and what I see which is likely based on my own experience and beliefs and your words.

If that is all the grace you can handle this with, then there really is no more to do, right?

And if there is no room for improvement, then also nothing more to do.

Glad things are moving along quickly for you.

AJ

[RockJC]

Thanks AJM. I have a good support system of family and friends. I actively seek out wise council. You mentioned:

"My friends pointed out the same"

My friends and family all tell me the same thing. They tell me that I need to be more assertive. That I need to challange her more. That I need to enforce boundaries. The people who truly know us (including ALL of her family), all think that I tolerate too much and that I let her get her way too often.

I compromise regularly and put up with a lot in an attempt to avoid conflict. The result is that my W doesn't respect me, doesn't appreciate what I do and continually pushes for more. I have been a doormat for so long that I really struggle with this. Lately, I have been trying to be more assertive, to tell her no and to demand reciprication when I make compromises. It is not going well.

I do listen to the advice from this site and think about how to apply it. Let me give you a specific example that I am conflicted about. This morning my W texts me:

W: "I had to order D12's and D14's yearbooks. D14's was $76 and D12's was $51. Are you paying half? Also, I got a call from the school that one of the girls lunch account is overdrawn."

Me: "I will send $20 with each of the girls to school tomorrow to cover the balance. I spent $89 for D14's winter retreat. I will send you a check for the difference"

I immediately get a phone call back. She threatens to call her lawyer and insists that I pay for half the yearbooks. She doesn't want D14 going on the retreat (because she is mad at our church for asking her to leave). Not only won't she pay half, but D14 cannot go because they don't get back until Monday and she gets custody @ 5:00 Sunday. I tell her that she is welcome to take that position, but she needs to tell D14 and I will not be paying for 1/2 the yearbooks. If she wants to buy them for the girls, go ahead.

I already sent her over $2,500 last month, but she wants to give me grief about another $60. It never ends. She just keeps demanding more and more and more, and whenever I ask for anything, I get told to go pound sand.

I am seriously at a point where I will do exactly what the courts order me to and no more/ no less. I am tired of getting a phone call everyday nitpicking me for more money or telling me how to parent. I want a true seperation. I want her out of my life. If compromises are not reciprocated, I am done compromising.

[RockJC]

I am conflicted, because it would be so easy to just pay her another $60 and avoid the conflict. But, like I said, I want a change on our relationship and simply saying 'Yes' to everything she asks for has never worked.

I want her to let D14 go on the retreat. I want her to pay 1/2 of the expenses I cover also. I want her to stop threatening me everytime I disagre with her. Everything seems so one-sided.

[AJM]

Gotcha. I know how you feel. I've been there. The text you received? That's almost verbatim what my ex sent me over and over again as recently as last night.

I doubt what you do will matter for what she's doing. At one point in the recent past my ex told me that she considered the court document (sep agreement) to be a set of guidelines. She fired her lawyer because she felt she didn't need it and it just cost her money That's what I base my observation on.

So, the text exchange? I would suggest you NOT do what you did. I tried that in the beginning and it ended the same way yours is. Instead? I follow to the letter. No more. No less. No expectations.

In the above, I don't even respond unless necessary. If a direct question, I directly answer it. I make sure to invoice her for the expenses I incur. I pay for my bills for the expenses I incur. That keeps it clean and neat and no questions. No expectations.

The change starts with you. She won't do it. She is not likely capable.

What you two are doing doesn't seem to work either. You think you're being reasonable and she goes to nuclear with any response you make.

Stop being reasonable. Stop being responsive at all. Stop having an expectation with regards to her and anything that you may want. She is a black hole in your universe and you cannot change that. Nor can you change how things go without changing how you interact.

I found that it took a long time. Been a few years and over that time I saw her continue as if I was still doing the same things. Then she began to quiet down and not instigate for a while. Then she became very noisy and started instigating all kinds of conversations. I finally told her to shut up and go away and stop harassing me. I cc'd her new husband. I did not threaten. I did not step beyond the issue at hand. I was mildly annoyed, but that was it.

In return I received another year of "junk" from her. Everything from accusations to lies etc. I'm waiting to see if this Christmas will bring me another round of harassment or if she'll be quiet. My money is on the former, but what do I know?

I do know that the more I stop allowing the behavior, the more effective I become at keeping her at bay. Do I get what I want? No. Do I get peace and more of what I want? Absolutely.

I changed. She had no choice but to change as well.

Stop the texts. Stop the ambiguity and expecting common understanding. Stop thinking you're a floormat. (I think you could look at your namesake as a floormat too, right? Was he? Or did he have a different perspective than you or I? ) Email helps to slow things down. No phone calls - too much emotion. If asked, just let her know it doesn't work for you. No more than that.

She will continue to do same as long as you do. Or longer....

AJ

[MrBond]

"(because she is mad at our church for asking her to leave)"

Weren't you the one who asked her to leave? Now that decision is haunting both of you. The blame is still going round and round. I don't know if you ee how the resentment on both your parts is why you can't communicate effectively.

No one said you had to give in to everything she asks. I think that's what you think I'm telling you. I'm just saying that there are better ways of handling the situation without you allowing resentment to eat away at you.

You say that you're getting better at forgiveness, etc. but it sure doesn't seem like it.

[RockJC]

I see the wisdom in what you are saying. I am going to start tomorrow:

1) I will answer the phone out of courtesy, but if it is not immediately urgent, I will just tell her "I do not wish to discuss this over the phone, please send me an email"

2) I will not respond to any texts that are not completely benign (For example "Where is D12's practice?"). If it is about money, or some other contentious issue, I will respond via email after a sufficient wait.

3) If the subject of money comes up, I will simply say "I am itemizing all my expenses and will send you an invoice at the end of the month. Please do the same, I will review it monthly and send you any money I feel you are owed." If there is a disagreement about what she feels I owe, then she can proceed with a court action, but I will not spend any time discussing it.

How does this sound?

[RockJC]

Yes, I asked her to leave the church. She doesn't belong there. Don't blame me for her spite and resentment.

I am not allowing resentment to eat away at me. I simply want a different relationship. I communicate very effectively.

She wants what she wants and threatens when she doesn't get it. She won't even consider anything I want. This has nothing to do with communication or resentment. It is all about selfishness and the personality of a bully.

I have worked on forgiveness. It doesn't stop the phone from ringing or the bullying behavior. I am going to give AJM's suggestions a shot. It can't hurt.

[AJM]

How does this sound?

Hmm.. Not quite what I intended. Let me put it another way:
The idea is to get some breathing room between the two of you. To put a buffer in there. To that end, I'm suggesting no more texts at all. It know it's convenient, but it's not working. By design, texting is brief and informal. Email is more formal and can allow a lot longer before a response.

The suggestions were there as a means to show you that YOU need to change the dynamic. It will NOT change overnight. You have to be prepared to change that and stay changed. Consistently.

It's also not all or nothing, but I agree that if she cannot be bothered to talk in a business like manner, you don't need to listen to it. The reverse is true as well. If you can't keep your remarks or the past or your anger out of the conversation, then she has no reason to listen to it.

If the subject of money comes up, I will simply say "I am itemizing all my expenses and will send you an invoice at the end of the month. Please do the same, I will review it monthly and send you any money I feel you are owed."

If you had said that to me, I'd have flipped a lid and gone nuclear on your sorry a**. I will send you money I feel you are owed? Really? You don't see how that's caustic!??

I will answer the phone out of courtesy, but if it is not immediately urgent, I will just tell her "I do not wish to discuss this over the phone, please send me an email"

That's much better. If you can be courteous. If not, let it go to voicemail. Respond later after you have had a chance to think about it. And think about it again.

I will not respond to any texts that are not completely benign (For example "Where is D12's practice?"). If it is about money, or some other contentious issue, I will respond via email after a sufficient wait.

Eventually, you'll be able to teach her how to treat you. i.e. if she asks a reasonable question, you can give a reasonable answer via text. BUT for now, you two need some distance from each other, don't you agree?

The suggestions were to help you get that distance and slow things down until they can be more productive for all concerned. In the meantime, neither of you is going to get what you want, although you each may think the other is getting what they want at the time. Your perceptions of each other and selves is 180 out.

Cool things down. That's what I'm suggesting.

AJ

[MrBond]

"Yes, I asked her to leave the church. She doesn't belong there."

You just said that the church asked her to leave. Take responsibility.

"Don't blame me for her spite and resentment."

Fact is that if you didn't ask her to leave, she wouldn't be resentful of you. That was your role.

"I am not allowing resentment to eat away at me. I simply want a different relationship. I communicate very effectively."

Communication is more than just words. It's the tone of the words that you use. I don't think you realize how much of your anger is shown in your posts.

"She wants what she wants and threatens when she doesn't get it."

Because you two can't communicate any better right now.

"She won't even consider anything I want. This has nothing to do with communication or resentment."

Yes it does.

"It is all about selfishness and the personality of a bully."

She is defending herself because she feels like you take things away from her. Like the church thing. In that, you were being selfish and a bully.

"I have worked on forgiveness. It doesn't stop the phone from ringing or the bullying behavior."

Because the resentment is still there.

You know despite what you may think, I really do support you. In fact, your situation is so obvious in how to make things better, but you continue to go your own path and then complain when things don't change.