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25years:
Wife found out I was seeing the OW first and so I broke it off with OW. That only lasted a little over a week or so and I went back to seeing OW again. After a few weeks of seeing OW again, I then confessed to W (and broke it off with OW for good).
W sounds like the old you...angry and hurt, "it's over". The fear of trusting me again and being hurt again appears to be how she is feeling (based on what one of her close friends told me).
W and I had been very close, but drifted apart in the last couple years with taking care of her parents. After W found out about OW the first time, we went to C to discuss OW as well as how we had drifted apart, the sex issue, and the lack of communication issue.
We only got in 5 counseling sessions and then I confessed about still seeing the OW. After that, the C ended as W did not want to continue with it. So we were never really able to get into working on any of the issues.
There are no grandchildren from her D.
The counselor did ask her about the lack of making love. What she felt was the reason. She had stated she was gong through menopause and just figured that it killed her sex drive. he then asked her how she felt that made me feel. She said she figured it wouldn't make me feel too good, but that since we would joke about it, she didn't think it was a big deal.
I'm staying physically active and eating good. Sleep is very tough. The nighttime is the worst time for me because I think about everything so much. My C has some things we are working on to try to alleviate my thoughts. Hopefully, they will work...so far, not much luck.


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Originally Posted By: JFred
Starsky:
Yes, I still want to save my marriage and re-attract W. When I moved out back in August, W was worried about finances. Based on that, I said I would pay for any costs associated with the cats, or help out with them anyway I could. Not having children of my own, they are my "girls", so to speak. Based on that, I do whatever is needed of me to take care of them.
The questions about taxes and 401k, etc are natural since finances are my forte.
If I were to say no to helping with the cats or answering her questions, wouldn't that tell her that I don't care?


Fred,

Basically, she has "fired" you as her husband right now. You should treat her accordingly (kindly, like you would a neighbor whom you took in to board) -- no more, no less.

She needs to feel the consequences of the decision she's made, and "putting on her BGPs (big-girl panties) as we used to say around here is called for. That doesn't mean you act MEANLY towards her, it simply means that you stop doing things a husband would typically do.

Tough call on the cats, as they are like kids to a childless couple (or to me, and I have four kids!) Personally, I'd say "yes" to helping with the cats, but "no" to rescuing her with the financial stuff. But that's just me.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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I strongly suggest that you speak to a Divorce Busting Coach. Many people use DB coaches in addition to counselling. Our coaches are Pro Marriage and can teach you what you need to say and do to get your marriage back on track. Please call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004.


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Thanks Starsky...I see what you are saying. I have to continue to take care of the cats, my girls! But I will pull back on answering the other questions and fixing things around the house. It's hard because she has always looked to me for these things. For me, to continue doing these things makes me feel like I'm still wanted in that husband role. But after reading what you wrote and really thinking about it, as you said, I do need to stop.

Thanks Bond...I didn't see it as her walking over me, but in thinking about what you wrote and the conversation W and I had, I do see it now. I will try to employ the discussion points from your email if/when W goes down that road again. It's difficult, in that, while I continue to work on dealing with the guilt from my actions...when I see W hurting from my actions, that guilt becomes massive and I roll over and take the blame for everything in some misguided effort to not step on her toes or make things "worse".


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JF

it's good to get other opinions. I don't feel strongly about all of this but I remind Starsky and Bond, that YOU had the A. Not once, but twice, even after seeing how hurt your w was from the first discovery, you repeated it shortly thereafter!

Starsky, would you advise a woman in these shoes (i.e. the woman who had the A, twice) the same way you are advising JF?

I'm NOT accusing you of a big bias, but I am exploring this, b/c this situation is pretty different to me than some MLC WAW blurting out orders to her doormat h.

I don't see that here. I see a lot of confusion in her and possibly the reality that she had checked out of the m before...also sensing major depression in her.

I agree that being too supplicating can make you unattractive, but there IS some room for you to compensate for the hurt you caused.

A lot of this is a balancing act.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc


Starsky, would you advise a woman in these shoes (i.e. the woman who had the A, twice) the same way you are advising JF?





Yes, absolutely. Pursuing/placating/supplicating behavior is unattractive in EITHER sex, and any spouse claiming to want divorce should be allowed to begin to feel the consequences of that decision. If we shelter them from it by continuing to act as their spouse in every way that entails, they will never be forced into the "crucible" that Schnarch wrote so brilliantly about.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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I'll go read the citation Starsky, (b/c you say it's "brilliant' and that means something to me). Also I don't mean to hijack this thread, but perhaps clarification will be good or useful

Starsky, You wrote:


Yes, absolutely. Pursuing/placating/supplicating behavior is unattractive in EITHER sex, and any spouse claiming to want divorce should be allowed to begin to feel the consequences of that decision. If we shelter them from it by continuing to act as their spouse in every way that entails, they will never be forced into the "crucible" that Schnarch wrote so brilliantly about.

My question relates to this^^^....

"ANY spouse...want divorce should be allowed to...feel consequences".

So, a beaten spouse who finally wants to end the abuse, gets what from her LBS?

A SSM in which the spouse who feels chronically rejected, who finally realizes the M won't ever have enough affection for their needs, will never "speak in their'love language"',
and wants their painful situation to end, files or says they want to.

My question is, why wouldn't you want to advise their LBS to pursue or work on their m?

Why not allow the LBS (in that situation) to be validated for being hurt so often that they'd feel the need to end the M?

What's with holding back on a spouse who already felt rejected or denied?

I think elaboration is probably what I'm seeking.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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"but I remind Starsky and Bond, that YOU had the A. Not once, but twice, even after seeing how hurt your w was from the first discovery, you repeated it shortly thereafter!"

For me, while he hid the affair the first time, he admitted it the second and felt genuine remorse for it. His W didn't address any of the problems that caused their problems in the first place (lack of sex, intimacy, etc.) and chose to constantly concentrate on the A.

For those of us who have been on here awhile, we know that when it comes to A's many times there are false starts. But often the cheating spouse doesn't stop until they are caught. In this case he fessed up to it and tried to set things right. The remorse and not just regret that has been shown is why I think he deserves a second chance.

But if his W continues to just concentrate on A, then he should stand up for himself.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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Originally Posted By: MrBond
"but I remind Starsky and Bond, that YOU had the A. Not once, but twice, even after seeing how hurt your w was from the first discovery, you repeated it shortly thereafter!"

For me, while he hid the affair the first time, he admitted it the second and felt genuine remorse for it. His W didn't address any of the problems that caused their problems in the first place (lack of sex, intimacy, etc.) and chose to constantly concentrate on the A.

Usually it's the betrayed spouse who comes on here. And we tell them that the cheater must earn their trust again, be totally transparent, not expect to regain the trust anytime soon, ETC ETC ETC so I feel as if the same ought to be said TO the person who had the A.

OTOH, Bond, just so you know, there are lots of times to me, the betrayed spouse comes here and what we tell them to expect, just sounds a lot like punishment, which might not ever end...

So I get what you are saying.

For those of us who have been on here awhile, we know that when it comes to A's many times there are false starts. But often the cheating spouse doesn't stop until they are caught. In this case he fessed up to it and tried to set things right. The remorse and not just regret that has been shown is why I think he deserves a second chance.

I think it means there is real remorse. And I think there ought to be some point in time when the A does Not get to keep being thrown in anyone's face (not that she did that). It cannot be held over the head of the wayward spouse who is trying to move past it.

I wonder if SHE thinks she gave him a second chance. Maybe she was just waiting to see if HER feelings magically came back (which rarely happens) and maybe that is what she called the "second chance", or the originally short time in which she attended counseling with him..


But if his W continues to just concentrate on A, then he should stand up for himself.


I agree.

I just don't know when that time period is. Everyone knows it takes SOME time.

So how long is that? What is our criteria for assessing "enough"?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,810
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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc


"ANY spouse...want divorce should be allowed to...feel consequences".

So, a beaten spouse who finally wants to end the abuse, gets what from her LBS?

A SSM in which the spouse who feels chronically rejected, who finally realizes the M won't ever have enough affection for their needs, will never "speak in their'love language"',
and wants their painful situation to end, files or says they want to.

My question is, why wouldn't you want to advise their LBS to pursue or work on their m?


Because "pursuit" doesn't work, it leads to clinginess which kills attraction, and because it totally disrespects the other spouse's decision. It's basically saying "You say you want a divorce, because _________ , but I disagree and I'm going to keep pursuing you."

My advice to the LBS is to say "I don't WANT a divorce, but I respect your decision and I won't stand in your way. I acknowledge the hurt(s) I caused you, and I've asked for your forgiveness for them and I've owned up to them myself and am working on myself to make me a better person. But I won't stand in your way."

I hope that clarifies.

Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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