When she called on Christmas, she asked if I would come over on Sunday to help cut the cats' nails (this is normal for her to ask as she likes it done every 3 weeks). I agreed...when I got there W and I sat down and she brought up that she still wanted the D, which led to our conversation.
In your brief description of the conversation with your W, you didn't mention anything about you VALIDATING her reason for wanting a D. It showed that you were still interested in what YOU wanted and not her.
" Said that I respect her decision to Divorce, but that I strongly believed we could work through it."
See? This isn't validation. At that time, you need to show her that you understood why she was doing what she was doing and how she feels and was sorry about your actions. Then said you respected her decision to D and then ended it.
"I said it wasn't about going back but moving forward. Talked about some articles that I've read in regards to couples who have made it through affairs."
How many times have you mentioned the word 'I'?
"She did say a couple times that she has moments where she is sad and moments where she hates my guts. That if she had an affair on me, I would want a divorce too and not want to try."
That is another point you should have validated. But when she mentioned that you would have wanted a D, you could have just told her you didn't think so.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
I see your points...in replaying the conversation in my head, I did not do much validation of her reason for wanting the D. I don't do that out of fear...fear that if I don't tell her how I feel about her and that I still want the M, that she will think I don't care and proceed with the D much quicker.
In my mind, to validate her decision for the D tells her that I want a D too. Or that I'm not interested in saving the M. Since I don't want her to think that, I go to the opposite extreme and tell her how much I don't want a D. In doing that, I make it about me and my feelings.
Last Fri, W asked if I would pick up some cat food and bring it over on Sun. When I got there on Sun, I was prepared for her to give me the d papers.
We had some conversations about the cats and she asked me to look at/fix a couple things around the house. She talked a little about her D (my Step-d) and some business trips that SD has been taking.
Was there about an hour and a half. She did not mention the divorce papers and I did not bring it up. No contact since Sunday.
Outside of a couple work questions, there was no contact last week and no contact over the weekend or yesterday. Today, I sent her an email asking how the cats were (one of our cats has been dealing with an undertermined illness for many months). She responded they were doing ok, but the one seems to be regressing. W said she was stressed out and discouraged by this and didn't know what to do. I replied back trying to reinforce the positive and reiterating what the vet has been saying all these months. Said for her to pray about the situation daily, esp when she was feeling stressed. She replied and said "Thanks for talking me down". It felt good to read that...like I was able to be there for her. W has made no mention of the D or the papers being filed.
Went over to the house on Sunday. W had asked me to bring over some cat litter and to cut their nails. She had me look at our taxes and look at the taxes for her father's estate. We took some time and looked those over. She then said that she had not filed the D papers, but planned to soon. We did not argue, she was very matter of fact. She said with it being 6 months since we've been separated (next week), she felt it was time to file. That she has not changed her mind once in those 6 months that the D is the answer. Also told me that in the last 6 months, she has not ever had one thought about getting back together with me. (that was heartbreaking to hear). She reiterated that her heart was not in it anymore and that it was time for her to move on. I validated her feelings and apologized for my actions again. She also said she could never forgive me for what I'd done. I told her I understand. She brought up the finances and said she still felt I should walk away with just the clothes on my back and that's it. She feels I should not get 1/2 the equity or anything else. That she can't afford it, esp with their summer home expenses. She also said she felt this way since this was all my fault and she was the victim of what I'd done. I was calm and explained that I understood why she felt that way and for us to leave that piece of it to the attorneys. Before I left, she asked if she had further questions on the taxes or her 401k, if I would be ok with her asking me them and I said of course. That if she had any questions at all, i would be happy to help. She also told me she is planning some vacation time in June and July...asked if I would be able to take care of the cats during those times. I said yes, that would be fine. That was about it. I must say, validating her feelings like I did made me feel like it truly is the end. I was very upset after I left...did a lot of crying and was very sad. I'm not sure what to do at this point...therapy appt tonight.
Why on earth did you let her walk all over you? You should have told her that while you made mistakes, you apologized for them and her constant "punishment" is not going to help any. That she also made mistakes and while you've worked out why you did what you did and apologized for it time and time again and even tried to atone them with her, she has not once looked at why she may have helped contribute to the downfall of the M and not the A itself.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Before I had caught up to your w's present position, my first thought was what I would do if I were in her shoes.
you did have an affair but if I'm not mistaken, YOU confessed it, as opposed to her discovering it? IS that accurate?
I'd have seen that as something. If my h had a short term A, and I knew also that our sex life needed...more...I like to think I'd consider a recon.
But it would mainly be one of two obstacles. The old me would have said "no way, too angry and will never trust you again. Boom!"
the new me would wait and see a bit. And for ME, being swept off my feet is what I'd need to trust that my h was SURE he wanted me and only me. I'd need to know all the things he loves about me, and how fun I am to be around, etc.
Originally Posted By: JFred
Went over to the house on Sunday. W had asked me to bring over some cat litter and to cut their nails. She had me look at our taxes and look at the taxes for her father's estate. We took some time and looked those over. She then said that she had not filed the D papers, but planned to soon. We did not argue, she was very matter of fact.
She said with it being 6 months since we've been separated (next week), she felt it was time to file. That she has not changed her mind once in those 6 months that the D is the answer. Also told me that in the last 6 months, she has not ever had one thought about getting back together with me. (that was heartbreaking to hear).
And rather stubbornly prideful. But whatever...tell me the truth though. BEFORE the BD, and well, BEFORE The A, did you feel she loved you very much?
What was the C about if not the sex issues? Her grief? What? What were you two working on apart from the A?? Are ANY of those problems being addressed?
She reiterated that her heart was not in it anymore and that it was time for her to move on. I validated her feelings and apologized for my actions again. She also said she could never forgive me for what I'd done. I told her I understand. She brought up the finances and said she still felt I should walk away with just the clothes on my back and that's it. She feels I should not get 1/2 the equity or anything else. That she can't afford it, esp with their summer home expenses. She also said she felt this way since this was all my fault and she was the victim of what I'd done. I was calm and explained that I understood why she felt that way and for us to leave that piece of it to the attorneys. You gave the Perfect answer.
Also, Some of her "Clarity" in wanting the Div so much, may be based on her mistaken belief that just b/c you are wearing the hair shirt so long, that she actually believes she'll get more than half. Not so...imo. And financial motivators are fine if it also comes with some work.
Before I left, she asked if she had further questions on the taxes or her 401k, if I would be ok with her asking me them and I said of course. That if she had any questions at all, i would be happy to help. She also told me she is planning some vacation time in June and July...asked if I would be able to take care of the cats during those times. I said yes, that would be fine. That was about it. I must say, validating her feelings like I did made me feel like it truly is the end. I was very upset after I left...did a lot of crying and was very sad. I'm not sure what to do at this point...therapy appt tonight.
If it were me, and it's not and I don't know your w, but here is what i would wonder.
DID I love this man and do I still? Okay if so, then the only reason I cannot take him back (if that is the case)
is FEAR of being hurt again AND OR the desire to punish him some more...
Assume that instead of fear, she's just really angry and so furious that she cannot see ever being with you again. You simply don't bring much to the table, for HER.
IN TIME< I see that changing if you continue to be her friend...and maybe in time, if she sees you as the new man you wanted to become
and now some other woman gets the new improved YOU, that would make me take a second look. NOT if it's with the same OW again!!...
but if I were to see my h after I pushed a divorce thru and he was openly sad and expressive but still a good reliable friend,
and then I saw him understandably moving on and that he was attractive to OWs and was perhaps making other changes I had wanted all along, it would be hard for me to Not second guess my choice.
I would have to vilify him ("he's still a cheat!!") to justify my recalcitrance.
OTOH if I did not love my h anymore and the A was a great way to blame him for that, then I'd be totally done. And that might also explain why I was willing to only ML 5 times a year, before hand....
If it is FEAR and Fear alone that keeps her from "Ever" trusting you again, that may be just a real big tragedy. Only time with her seeing you as a stable guy, NOT necessarily pursuing her,
"b/c you want to abide by her choice".
At some point, let her know that you don't want to be alone the rest of your life and you intend to date IF & Only IF, she is certain it's over w/you now.
If she says it is over and done, and you end up divorced, then move forward.
I can actually imagine you two getting divorced, then her feeling she did the "tough love" thing and then you two reigniting. It might take you dating others, or planning your own vacation, or it might take just TIME
...but HER dating others (IF) is not necessarily the death knell of anything. It will more likely help you than hurt. Once she sees what is out there and that you are compatible (assuming you are) and a good catch,
she may well reconsider her stance. That is my take on it anyhow.
Please make sure you take GOOD care of yourself. The healthier you are, and I include physically healthy there, the more appealing you are.
Especially since she just saw her mom and dad get sick and die...who wants to be alone later in life? Are there grandchildren from her d?
Take care of yourself and start being more upbeat around her. Wear new cool clothes (do the "Rules" for Newbies and all that. New cologne, etc). Be a man only a fool would leave, Despite the A.
and ask yourself this: "IF I had not had the A, where would we be now?"
Sure, you can say "all better IF ONLY I had not done that" and you will never really know.
What we do know- is that there were issues other than the A, which you both seem to be ignoring and one of them is the SSM.
Has she ever been asked what SHE was thinking would happen, eventually, when she said "no" to sex to her h, a younger man, for that long?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Went over to the house on Sunday. W had asked me to bring over some cat litter and to cut their nails. She had me look at our taxes and look at the taxes for her father's estate. We took some time and looked those over. She then said that she had not filed the D papers, but planned to soon. We did not argue, she was very matter of fact. She said with it being 6 months since we've been separated (next week), she felt it was time to file. That she has not changed her mind once in those 6 months that the D is the answer. Also told me that in the last 6 months, she has not ever had one thought about getting back together with me. (that was heartbreaking to hear). She reiterated that her heart was not in it anymore and that it was time for her to move on. I validated her feelings and apologized for my actions again. She also said she could never forgive me for what I'd done. I told her I understand. She brought up the finances and said she still felt I should walk away with just the clothes on my back and that's it. She feels I should not get 1/2 the equity or anything else. That she can't afford it, esp with their summer home expenses. She also said she felt this way since this was all my fault and she was the victim of what I'd done. I was calm and explained that I understood why she felt that way and for us to leave that piece of it to the attorneys. Before I left, she asked if she had further questions on the taxes or her 401k, if I would be ok with her asking me them and I said of course. That if she had any questions at all, i would be happy to help. She also told me she is planning some vacation time in June and July...asked if I would be able to take care of the cats during those times. I said yes, that would be fine. That was about it. I must say, validating her feelings like I did made me feel like it truly is the end. I was very upset after I left...did a lot of crying and was very sad. I'm not sure what to do at this point...therapy appt tonight.
JFred,
Let me ask you a simple question: do you still want to try to re-attract your wife, and save your marriage?
It's a serious question. My advice as to what your tactics should be at this point are slightly different based upon what your current goal is. But either way, this whole "supplication" thing isn't going to accomplish anything, I'm afraid, either in the form of re-attraction or just in simply feeling good about yourself.
Starsky: Yes, I still want to save my marriage and re-attract W. When I moved out back in August, W was worried about finances. Based on that, I said I would pay for any costs associated with the cats, or help out with them anyway I could. Not having children of my own, they are my "girls", so to speak. Based on that, I do whatever is needed of me to take care of them. The questions about taxes and 401k, etc are natural since finances are my forte. If I were to say no to helping with the cats or answering her questions, wouldn't that tell her that I don't care?
