Discovering the buck stops here....

[mizjjd]

Job! How nice of you to stop by.

Is he on thin ice w/them for the about of time he's been away?
I am not sure. He hasn't missed time for quite a while actually.

Of course you are to blame for him not doing it sooner in life. Yes well, that goes along with me being the root of all evil, don't ya' know? I'm just impressed with myself that I didn't "take the bait" when he threw it out. I have nothing to "defend" myself to him over regarding this issue. He is entitled to his opinion and me to mine.
Yes, the man is lost and is trying to find his compass, but it will take a long time to for him to figure out that happiness comes from within. Agreed.
When is his 21st birthday?
Friday, the 21st.
It's time for him to learn about his situation on his own and not expect mom to diagnosis his issues for him. Mom you are the best, but it's difficult for him to let you go as a crutch and that may create more anxiety if he fears you are letting go. That is my goal. And yes, my decision to stop "looking things up" for him did not make him happy. But, making him happy isn't my job. That's his job. And its high time he start working on it, on himself, so he can have a life.
However, don't be surprised if she returns home in the next 6 months. I can't see that relationship working out for very long. I would be surprised if it takes that long!
Has the school board recommended the students going during spring break, etc?
They are going today, which had been scheduled off. And I believe they've lost 1 of their 2 spring break days. (They only get Good Friday and Easter Monday (is that a thing?) off) Beyond that they start tacking on days to the end of the school year.
I do hope that you are carving out some time for you, i.e., to do something special for yourself.
That's why I'm here! My computer died so H's is the only way for me to spend time on DB. And today I get the bonus of H being away AND having the day off wonderfuljob. (That would be a good name for you...btw.)

Alrighty. Further developments.
One of H's long standing self-stories has been his conception. The legend goes that his parents, who already had 3 girls (twins and then a singlet 2 years later)desperately wanted a boy. So they consulted books and doctors on the best technique and 7 years after the singlet voila their prayers were answered and H was born.

Last night, I get the following text.
Found out that I was not planned but a simple mistake. Like "singlet sister".
I respond, What?!
Yes, I was an accident.
I ask, What about all the "we wanted a boy so we made one" stories?
Just stories I guess. Apparently they made the mistake of letting Singlet Sister know at a younger age and didn't repeat with me because she took it so badly.
Well YES of course she took it badly! Honest to god. Your parents are something else.
Are you going to watch Downton Abbey?
Yes. And I'm going to think unkind thoughts of your parents the whole time.
No. They make mistakes. It was a slip tonight, not a deliberate comment.
I understand that you do have to defend them. I know that. I don't even want to get into it with you regarding them. Sorry. I lost my temper.
You're angry because you think my state of mind is fragile enough without the input of that knowledge.
That's part of it, yes.
It is upsetting lol and I'm not sure why.
Its upsetting because above all else parents have the job of making sure their kids know they are WANTED. It was HORRIBLY SELFISH of your parents to "let that slip". If they hadn't made such a big lying deal out of the whole thing all along. They just took a tenet of your "self" and shattered it.
Yes well the story was a spark my whole life until now. So the saying the truth shall set you free is bunk.
The TRUTH should have been told all along.
I don't know what to say. I'm too old to have it bother me. I should be too strong willed to let it weaken me.
>>At this point the whole restraint, the "not getting into it" re H's parents? Gone.<< At the risk of alienating you, I'll share another truth with you. Your parents are not nice people. They didn't treat you or your sisters well, and still don't. That "I should be strong" stuff is yet more garbage that your parents have gifted you with. Its part of why you are lost right now. Because you've never learned to feel.
They have a lot of close friends who respect and care for them. They grew up in a different time in different circumstances.
No excuse. I can introduce you to scads of people their generation who do not treat their family that way.
But not from the same social standing or period of time and place. I'm lost because I gambled my life away. I took the risks and now I'm paying for it with nothing to fall back on.
That sounds like a reference to your financial/professional life? If you need to tell yourself that about your parents, if you believe that, fine. But don't expect me too.
I watch SIL and D29 with their kids and I see two wonderful parents. They/she didn't get it from me.
Your issues with your kids and your wives/girlfriends are patterned after your parents. Do you see that?
No, I don't see that nor do I understand the comment.
I'm not saying disown them or don't love them. I'm just saying they haven't done you any favors regarding emotional health.
Maybe not.
Your parents have had and continue to have strained relationships with their children. Yes?
Yes.
And their children, you and your sisters, have strained relationships with their children, yes?
Yes, I suppose. But hopefully not with (our)my twins.
Hopefully not with any of your kids. You work at this, I know you do. I'm proud of how you try. Doesn't mean things are perfect, but you TRY. So do you see how your parents parenting pattern is copied by you and your sisters?
No, I think we're worse.
Better or worse arguable. But variations on the original pattern.
I think I'm losing my mind.
On the contrary, I think you may finally be ready to find your mind.
No, I mean I think other forces are dulling it and my memory recall.
Stress and depression have that effect. But speaking of recall, despite what your mother says NOW about her marriage - it hasn't been a great marriage. And NONE of their children have had successful marriages. So, another pattern repeats.
What patterns will our children repeat? Omg.
I know. Scary thought.
Yes.

There. Now that I've shared that I feel much better. H is one sad and broken puppy. I hope he can see his way through that one day. For me, while this development made me angry because I believe his parents were/are cruel, it feels more distant. More "other" than past exchanges. More detached I guess. I want to say to H "Look! See? Look at it from this perspective." But if he doesn't or can't, then so be it. It's too bad, but it's just the way it is. He'll remain stuck trying to please the unpleasable parents, failing them and failing himself. But he has to work all that out on his own.

Off to errands and chores. Take care DBers

[Portia]

Hey MizJ,

Like it or not, parents have a great deal to do with our upbringing and the way we turn out.

Sometimes things happen to us which allow us to look at ourselves and look within and make some changes to our behviours. For example, I did not come from an affectionate family (slight understatement here) but I have learned since BD that love, in any form, is work and that some folks do need the "mushy stuff" every once in awhile.

Sounds like your H needs to learn some of those lessons for himself. And as lost as he is, I can actually empathize. Know what my father said to me the other day? "I know you work lots of hours but I don't know if you work hard." Now, my father and I actually get along well for the most part, but warm and fuzzy he is not. Yet, even after celebrating my third 35th birthday, there is still something in me that reacts to statements like that. I have sacrificed quite a bit for my career, including paying my way through university and graduate school, so a slight on my work ethic cut.

Long ago, that comment would have earned a sarcastic comment back but I have learned not to take the bait. He will not change, so I must.

I hope your H comes to realize that he can still love his parents but do not necessarily have to agree with them or their parenting methods. I very much believe that this is part of becoming an adult. You have given your H something to think about and that is good, maybe some of it will seep in.

Hope everything else is going well for you, my friend!

[mizjjd]

Hello Portia

And other interested parties.

I am not having a good day today. No huge reason. Did have a brief conversation with H last night.

H: "Why aren't you more responsive sexually?"
J: "Because you have a girlfriend. That takes the emotion out of sex for me, and without that love and intimacy I guess I'm not interested."
H: "I don't have a girlfriend."
J: "You have someone in your life you value more than me. Someone you have told me you are in love with. Someone you won't stop communicating with. Whatever label you prefer, all that adds up to a girlfriend to my perspective."
H: "You're ridiculous."

Pulls me in to spoon. After a few minutes I move away.
H: "Now what?"
J: "That's not working for me tonight."
H: "Fine. Bleep it all then."

This morning H was still mad at me.

And I don't know how I am. Very sad. The tears are back. I hate the tears. I am amazed at how H rationalizes his continuing R with OW. And I am dismayed.




And, true to exposure to insanity, I begin to wonder if I am the crazy one here. If I have the "wrong" idea about M. I suppose ultimately there is no wrong and right; its whatever the interested parties agree to. But I don't agree...

Sigh. Had to vent. And now lunch is over;back to work.

Take care DB world.

~Jaye~

[job]

Jaye,
I'm so sorry that things aren't good right now. You were very honest w/him and yet, he's still denying what is going on in his life.

I do hope that you can find a little ray of sunshine to cheer you up just a bit. I wish that I had a magic wand and could wipe all of this sadness and misery from all that post here.

Please take care of yourself. I worry about you.

[mizjjd]

Please take care of yourself. I worry about you.

Thank you Job. That's really so very nice. I feel adrift sometimes, you know?

[Takevowsserious]

Dear Jaye -

I'm sorry you are having a bad day. Your H is in such denial, and still completely insensitive towards you.

Your feelings matter too.

You have every right not to want to be intimate with him. Don't let his mind games fool you. If he wants to be mad, let him. After all he has and continues to put you through, that's just too bad.

Hope you have a better day. You have lots of people that care about you

[Portia]

Jaye,

Hon, I am sending you the biggest (((hug))).

One of these days, those truth darts have to sink in. And I happen to agree with you. I am not a "lovey-dovey" person to begin with and when I allow someone to touch me, it is on my terms. I remember Skippy trying to hug me at the airport and I could almost not bear to touch him or have him touch me. Of course, he made me feel guilty that "after 18 years, I wouldn't even hug him". At the time, it worked. Now that I am so far away from that, my mind screams: and exactly how did he respect that 18 year relationship?

Let the tears come, my friend. They are cathartic. They will eventually dry.

Lots of love your way.

[mizjjd]

Hey Portia and TVS

Thank you for stopping by!!

I'm at the end of my lunch break and so this post may not be too well organized.

H is doing something new.

It has been about 10 years since saying ILY to H got me the response I might want. (Which is ILY2) I would get silence, "I love me too", Thank You or no you don't. We had a discussion about it several years ago and H explained he didn't like me saying ILY to him, that ILY was said too often in his opinion and should only be said if one was FEELING love. (The whole FEELING LOVE... don't get me started...)

For about the last 6 years or so I rarely said ILY, and stopped altogether after BD. Ha ha, now, last 2 nights in a row H has said ILY to me as we prepare for sleep.

The first night caught me totally off guard and I responded incredulously "You love me?!?" (I did manage not to snort.) Followed by... "thank you".

Last night, dang if he didn't do it again. I wasn't so totally off guard, but I don't really have an answer for him. I don't want to talk about it. No R talks if possible is my new motto. I know OW is still in the picture, and I'm not prepared to "explore my feelings" regarding H and the M until she's gone. Frankly, H's decision to not drop OW combined with the 7 or 14 or 20 OW revelation motivated me to bind and gag my heart before locking it in a box and burying it somewhere foreboding. Where I hope it dies. (Not to be melodramatic... )

Hopefully this new habit is over.

Oh, and, btw, we have our first MC appointment on the 16th...

So... thoughts?

[Portia]

Jaye!

How great to hear from you!

I was actually thinking of you today while I was watching some incredibly funny Soul Mate Schmoopie videos (see You Tube) and thought that your sense of humour would appreciate these.

And here you are. And going to marriage counselling. How on earth did you manage that? Being in the middle of a blizzard in April kinda makes the expression "when hell freezes over" more of a reality.

How do you feel about going? I have never been (although Skippy used to tell me about his therapist but I immediately declared her useless in my mind when he said to me that the whole problem was that he "handled things wrong". Ye-ah, you think?) I hope you have a good one and maybe some of the other folks who have been through it can offer some pointers.

Do drop by and tell us how it went and what you learned. I know that you have been unsure of your feelings for H for some time now - fully justified - I wonder if this will help you to make up your mind? Obviously H is not going anywhere!

Have a fabulous weekend!

[mizjjd]

Portia Thank you for your kindness.

The MC was rather a spur of a moment thing. I was arranging the insurance regarding S21 and his anxieties and while I was on the phone thought "Oh what the heck..."

I am so undone by H's new behavior. I had prepared for many things, but not this. Him leaving in the middle of the night would possibly have been easier.

I will not have a M with an OW.

I don't know if H is genuine in his new found sentiment. My first thought is he's somehow sensing the distance and attempting to close the gap. On the surface nothing has changed.

I don't feel H's reawakening changes my intentions as long as OW is still connected. But it was easier to have my intentions when H was being crazy nasty. Now he's just crazy...

But there's zero trust. How could he possibly expect me to trust and believe him when he says ILY? (This would be part of the "crazy", because no rational person would expect that.)

And of course those other factors, like our children, like our struggling financial condition are still present.

H told me something today that made me think he is possibly truly evolving in some manner. H's sister wants to do a Christmas cruise with H's parents, H, H's sister (and possibly the other sister, but she is rarely liked...)

H's mom told him to hurry up and decide because "You know it could be our last Christmas together..."

Which is true. Its true for anyone, but they are in ill health so especially true for them. But as H told me this I mentally added it to the list of things I never want to say to my kids. I found it blatantly and distastefully guilt tripping.

And it was as if H read my mind. He said, "I wish she wouldn't use that on me. Doesn't she think I might want to see my family at Christmas too?" (Meaning me and our kids)

I did a goldfish impression for several seconds...lol.

So I feel lost all over again.

Not as bad as 2 years ago. But the footing I thought I'd found is suddenly slippery.

Now, evil Jaye enjoyed the Schmoopie! And evil Jaye had a flash that because H likes to email funny videos to OW... and evil Jaye knows H's email password...maybe evil Jaye should send the Schmoopie to OW on behalf of H?

But rational doesn't-want-to-be-on-Jerry-Springer Jaye said no. That Jaye is SUCH a spoil sport...

Take care

~Jaye