Discovering the buck stops here....

[Portia]

Awesome to see your post Jaye!

Your H is trying. Lordy, can they confuse us any more? But good for you for not letting it throw you for too much of a loop.

I am a sucker for any animal in distress, so I am very proud of you for sneaking the kitty-cats in. My cat is so pampered, it is ridiculous. That little girl is in there Jaye, she just does things a little differently these days, that is all.

Do you think that laundry is like a Lady MacBeth sort of thing? A guilty sort of "out damned spot?" Wash away the sins? In my infrequent contacts with Skippy, he said more than once that his favourite part of his new apartment was the insuite laundry. And that he did laundry just for fun. So there is another one for the MLC play book, beware clean laundry!

Take care!

[willbwell]

omg, my h would catch up laundry on the weekends. he'd spend half the day. Folded so pristine!
he didn't like my just get it done method...didn't seem to remember that the laundry was not the only chore...
of course, I would thank him...
he stopped by to open gifts with kids xmas day but then left(no kidding) because he had to go do laundry.

[AJM]

MWD had a FB post asking if her followers would marry the spouse, if they had it all to over again.

My answer was "No." I was wondering what my DB friends would answer?

Are you sure about that, Mizjd? I mean really? I know I would have. We had close to 20 great years, by both our admissions. I really did enjoy those times. Sure it got wonky at the end (no relation to Ms Wonka; just a term.) But that was a point in time and for reasons I can't really explain.

I see a few things though. You're tired. Reasonably so I should think. Two jobs and raising a family. That'll wear you down both physically and emotionally. Watch for that and try to take care.

But it is having an effect on you. You don't have the patience with some of your feelings. The other is that you're rightfully questioning how you are with him. Given all that has gone on, the OW, etc. I'd think that's long overdue, my dear.

In my case, my W cheated and ran off and married the OM all while being very nasty. I never posted it all, but she was continues to be quite nasty when she gets a chance. Even through all of that, I knew something was "wrong" or "going on" with her. And I felt compassion more than anger. There has been some anger to be sure but a person can only take just so much without some anger.

I've found the anger to be helpful but also to mask some other feeling in many cases. Not always. There was some justified anger that no other feeling would suffice for. But often it was something else I had to dig a bit for. Perhaps that would be the same for you?

The anger and tired come together to "help" bring about change. That's it's purpose in the bigger picture. Some of that change is figuring out who you are and what your boundaries are. In your case, not in the heat of anger but over time.

I can tell that this situation won't go on forever. You won't let it. At some point, a change will be made and things will go one direction or the other.

I missed the part about your son. Is he in counselling for the anxieties?

AJ

[mizjjd]

Job:I'm very sorry to read about S20 and what he is going through. I can imagine that he is extremely scared of what lies ahead and rightly so. I'm keeping him in my prayers.

I apologize for not making it clear that S20 is not actually physically ill. He has anxieties. But he definitely needs some prayers!

I wish your D19 all the best, but I think she needs to step back and wait a bit before even thinking about marrying this guy. I hope she wises up and soon.

I agree. She is wildly impulsive and has made some damaging choices in her 19 years. I recognize that she has to travel her own path, just sorry she has chosen such a dangerous route.

S17 sounds like he's still on an even keel and doing okay.

Ss17 are remarkably well adjusted young men. They are the flip side of their elder siblings.

I do have to wonder what is up w/the laundry. It appears that there are a few of them that do laundry. I wonder if it's soothing to them to hear the washing machines and dryers running and just knowing that there's not a lot of thought into sorting, etc. My mlcing friend was doing laundry every day! LOL!

How are the in-laws doing these days? What about you? How are you doing?

The in-laws are better. MIL still has bad days from time to time but overall has improved.

I am doing ok. I have some swelling in my feet and legs that is bothersome and am considering a doctor visit for that. (Now that we have insurance lol.) I suspect it is my age and weight and the result of working retail for many years. I think I'll try some compression socks for a bit and see what effect they have.

Regarding the weight, H got me a treadmill for Christmas. (This is another part of what I see as his "trying". I have been asking for a treadmill for years.) I have been faithfully using it and my waistband is showing just a small improvement I actually love working out on a treadmill so this is a happy spot in my days. Other than that, not too much outward development. I am still working both jobs. Wonderfuljob is still pretty wonderful. Fastfoodland is ok, I like my coworkers and being that my shifts are just a few hours and only 2 days a week the whole thing is ok.

Inwardly, I am striving toward more and more detachment. The light I see H in right now is not a flattering one for him (despite the laundry!) I feel I am in a bit of a holding pattern at the moment, trying to sort out what will be the best course of action for me - and for the kids. I am working on forgiveness and am purposefully developing an "attitude of gratitude". Because I do really have so very much to be grateful for (including you Job and all the wonderful posters here on DB!) I am "accentuating the positive, eliminating the negative" and hoky/trite/cliche as that may sound, it makes a difference. I highly recommend it!!

Portia:Awesome to see your post Jaye!

Your H is trying. Lordy, can they confuse us any more? But good for you for not letting it throw you for too much of a loop.

I am a sucker for any animal in distress, so I am very proud of you for sneaking the kitty-cats in. My cat is so pampered, it is ridiculous. That little girl is in there Jaye, she just does things a little differently these days, that is all.

Do you think that laundry is like a Lady MacBeth sort of thing? A guilty sort of "out damned spot?" Wash away the sins? In my infrequent contacts with Skippy, he said more than once that his favourite part of his new apartment was the insuite laundry. And that he did laundry just for fun. So there is another one for the MLC play book, beware clean laundry!

You may be on to something here! I thought maybe it was a way of the MLCer taking control of a part of their environment?

Take care!

You too

willbewell:omg, my h would catch up laundry on the weekends. he'd spend half the day. Folded so pristine!
he didn't like my just get it done method...didn't seem to remember that the laundry was not the only chore...

I so hear you on this! H wanted to know "what is that basket of clothes in front of the dryer?" I told him the clothes were clean but I had not had time to hang/fold them. "Oh! Well you see, I don't start laundry unless I know I'll have time to completely finish the job." (Internal Jaye "Why you sanctimonious pr!ck!!" External Jaye "Yes, that's a good plan. Bye now, gotta go to work.")


of course, I would thank him...

I thank H, but not effusively. A long time ago, when the kids were little I came home to find H cleaning the house. I was floored, stunned, amazed. And enthusiastically thanked H.

Who told me he "Only did it so you would see it can be done and isn't that hard." I'm not sure if that comment would offend anyone else, but it was a sucker punch for me. It still upsets me now lol, and its been over 15 years.

Well, that was the first and last time H "helped" (or showed me his superiority) in household matters until recently. So, I'm keeping the thanks pretty low key. For the past comments and because too, why should I find it remarkable that a husband helps out with household chores? I mean, for my H in particular it is indeed fairly remarkable, but it shouldn't be.


AJM Quote:MWD had a FB post asking if her followers would marry the spouse, if they had it all to over again.

My answer was "No." I was wondering what my DB friends would answer? Are you sure about that, Mizjd? Yes.I mean really? Really. I know I would have. We had close to 20 great years, by both our admissions. I really did enjoy those times. AJ, I am very genuinely glad that you had 20 great years. I think we had maybe, maybe, 2. H's affairs began at the 4 year mark.His attitude and nastiness predated the affairs by about a year and escalated (with periods of calm interspersed) since then. Sure it got wonky at the end (no relation to Ms Wonka; just a term.) (Lol, what a DB twist that would be!!) But that was a point in time and for reasons I can't really explain.

I see a few things though. You're tired. Yes, very. And guess what?! This makes H mad. If I fall asleep on the couch he tells me I disgust him. Reasonably so I should think. Two jobs and raising a family. That'll wear you down both physically and emotionally. Watch for that and try to take care. I thank you for your insight and concern (See the gratitude comments in my response to Job ^)

But it is having an effect on you. You don't have the patience with some of your feelings. The other is that you're rightfully questioning how you are with him. Given all that has gone on, the OW, etc. I'd think that's long overdue, my dear.

In my case, my W cheated and ran off and married the OM all while being very nasty. I never posted it all, but she was continues to be quite nasty when she gets a chance. Even through all of that, I knew something was "wrong" or "going on" with her. And I felt compassion more than anger. There has been some anger to be sure but a person can only take just so much without some anger. I am sorry you had to go through this. Believe me when I say I know how much that hurt. And I debate this very topic all the time. Is something wrong with my H? I think there probably is. Knowing this, I ask myself, what is the right thing to do? What is the ethical thing? And I haven't figured all that out yet. But I do know that allowing another person, even a damaged person, to mistreat me is not the "right" thing. (How'd you like that Jaye-go-to-al-anon folks?) I have changed some of my own behaviors, the "enabling" behaviors. I have changed my perspective; realized that despite being so-called by H, I am not actually the root of all evil. Realized that I am worthy of love, respect and kindness regardless of my achievements (or lack thereof) and regardless of whether or not I fall asleep on the couch. But I can make all these changes and still remain vulnerable to hurt. Frankly it doesn't make me feel good to be called disgusting for being tired - or putting on a sweatshirt. (My being cold also disgusts H.)

I've found the anger to be helpful but also to mask some other feeling in many cases. Not always. There was some justified anger that no other feeling would suffice for. But often it was something else I had to dig a bit for. Perhaps that would be the same for you? I am not sure I follow this bit. I think you are saying you see me being angry - which I am. Justified or not. You feel my anger is masking another feeling? I don't know. Maybe. I will have to think on this.

The anger and tired come together to "help" bring about change. That's it's purpose in the bigger picture. Some of that change is figuring out who you are and what your boundaries are. In your case, not in the heat of anger but over time. My anger isn't very heated any more. Actually its more cold. Its more of wanting to get away from H. Many things preclude getting geographically away right now. But there is a lot of pain connected to H for me.

I can tell that this situation won't go on forever. You won't let it. At some point, a change will be made and things will go one direction or the other. I agree. If there's anything to be learned from this whole experience it is that nothing lasts forever. There will be a planetary realignment, a seismic shift etc and changes will come.

I missed the part about your son. Is he in counselling for the anxieties? S20 was on Paxil for about a year and a half which seemed to ease things for him. I am urging him to pursue counseling. Thanks for asking!

Thanks to everyone for stopping by. It means a lot to me. Part of my new-me resolution is to make more connections with people. And I have started reaching out to a few old friends, working on turning them into current friends. But I have no wish to dump all this, this Jaye/H-trauma-drama on them. And if I did, they wouldn't understand it the way DBers can and do. So I am truly grateful for this board and for the people who connect with me here. You make a difference!

Love,

Jaye

[Portia]

MizJ,

I wan't surprised to read your post that you may not have chosen to marry him again, if you could do it all again. I can remember you saying that even before this MLC business, he wasn't quite the right man for you and hadn't been for many years. But with young children, choices are limited.

In my case, I would have done it all again, maybe a little differently, maybe I would have been a little more brave, but I would have. Not that I think those things would have made a difference in the end (or at least I know that NOW) but we had a good realtionship. One I miss every day.

But I do know that allowing another person, even a damaged person, to mistreat me is not the "right" thing. (How'd you like that Jaye-go-to-al-anon folks?) I have changed some of my own behaviors, the "enabling" behaviors. I have changed my perspective; realized that despite being so-called by H, I am not actually the root of all evil. Realized that I am worthy of love, respect and kindness regardless of my achievements (or lack thereof) and regardless of whether or not I fall asleep on the couch.

Spot on, Jaye. You are NOT disgusting, revolting, evil, one-eyed, fuzzy haired or whatever H has accused you of. Even he knows it. This is not a way to treat someone else. Full Stop. Period.

Took some time to get there, didn't it? Did for me, too. Blamed myself for everything until I realized that none of my "sins" deserved the retaliation they got back. I cringe when I see the newbies who are frantically cleaning the house, losing weight or doing whatever their partners have said they needed to fix. I cringe because it makes no difference and really, it never did. Sorry my thighs weren't perfect, of course you had to be cruel to me and cheat on me! I am past buying any of that.

MizJ, I am so sure that you will make a gazillion friends! I certainly count you as one of mine!

[TSquared2]

I cringe when I see the newbies who are frantically cleaning the house, losing weight or doing whatever their partners have said they needed to fix. I cringe because it makes no difference and really, it never did.

Hi Portia, this is correct, but you know, some of the changes I did in the beginning were actually really good for me. I guess the VALID ones I kept, the others, upon examination, fit into your description.

Maybe it is a process that the LBS has to go through initially, and thereby figure out what is real, and not real. And figure out who they really want to be.

Just my 2.5 cents.

[ForeverYoung]

I cringe when I see the newbies who are frantically cleaning the house, losing weight or doing whatever their partners have said they needed to fix. I cringe because it makes no difference and really, it never did.

Let's tell 'em it'll only make a difference if they clean our houses too!

Ok, I'm sending myself to stand in the corner for that one...

[uRworthy]

J, let me just say to start that you are right in that you are worthy and that no one should be mistreated ever, crisis or not.

I agree with AJ, in that I think anger propels us forward. The hope is that there will come a time when you can let the anger go because holding onto it saps your energy.

At some point, when the hurt and anger and pain outweigh the obstacles needed to ovecome to move forward, you will figure out what you want.

As far as the changes go, they should never be for the spouse. They should always be for you. I used what my xh said as a starting point, although truthfully he never gave me any concrete reasons. Took what little he did say, looked at it, changed what I agreed with, tossed the rest.

Then I looked inside, looked at people I admired. Decided who I wanted to be.

And FY, you are always in the corner. LOL!

[mizjjd]

Hellooooo DBers!!

I hope everyone is doing good as can be.

Things are status quo here in Jaye -land.

H is up at his parents (This translates to "vacation for Jaye") Things have been.... uneventful between us. He continues to do laundry. I can see him making an effort to speak to me a little differently, less authoritarian-like. And, here's the kicker of the week, he got me a Valentine's gift and card. The gift is an animated bear that sings. The card says "Happy Valentine's Day" on the front, "Love you" inside and he wrote "Jaye" over the "Love you" and "H" underneath. He gave this to me just past midnight on Valentine's Day, as he was leaving to go to his parents. For years Valentine's Day went unobserved because "Married people don't have to do that."

And this year I finally decided that THIS married person was no longer observing... and then he gets me a gift. Lol. Life is funny.

I haven't of course asked about OW, but I do know he still E-mails her. So, to quote Shania Twain, "That Don't Impress Me Much". ($25 in Valentines silliness certainly ASTONISHES me though!)

And he's shared that he feels lost. That he doesn't know who he is anymore. And I am doing my best to validate what he says. Oh but here's a funny, and I had to really bite my tongue hard. H "called in sick" for Friday so he could have an extra day at his folks. This deception seems to be bothering H a bit. He made sure to tell S20 (who also works there) not to spill the beans. Then H called me to tell Ss17 to be sure not to mention to their friend-who's-father-works-there that H wasn't sick but instead went out of town. I said "this calling in sick thing seems to be bothering you."

And that perpetually unfaithful H o'mine says "I hate to lie, and I hate to be caught in a lie."

I managed to squeak an "Oh. I see."

Oh, and the pizza place has been indefinitely paused. H's mother and D29 from M1 told him it wasn't a great idea at the same time funding became an issue. H texted me his decision and I responded with "I understand why you made that choice. I am sorry it didn't work out."

H, "Well it should have been done years ago!"(As in, when he first became involved with current OW which NATURALLY would have negated their relationship but because I didn't want to run the pizza place and wasn't "supportive" he OF COURSE had to get involved with OW)... another tongue bite... and I responded "Maybe so"

S20 is still wrestling with his anxieties. Currently manifesting in imagined brain tumors. He has gotten another prescription for Paxil, but is waiting until after his 21st birthday to begin it because he wants to drink on his birthday and fears the interaction of drug/alcohol. I continue to urge him to seek counseling and have stopped being his looker-upper. (Times past he would have me look up symptoms of whatever was bothering him so that I could "diagnose" his presented symptoms and confirm/deny his fears. But I've told him this is unhealthy and he cannot continue to use me as a crutch.)

D19 is still in MI with the less-than-desirable BF. I have stopped paying her phone bill.

(Look at me go! Expecting people to take care of themselves, my oh my.)

Ss17 have begun to show signs of senioritis. Which is unfortunate because we've had so much snow and snow-days that I think they may go to school through July lol.

And Jaye!?!

Just trucking along. I finally made the step to tell fastfoodland that I'm available Friday nights. I am still working on pulling away. Because sometimes the ease of life with H scares me. Because if I turned off the knowledge of the As, and shrugged at the nastiness, then I could see the current sitch continue indefinitely. H has begun to sprinkle phrases like "in a few years we will..."

And I cannot allow myself to settle for the crumbs H offers. Even with his trying, and I know that he really is making an effort, its not enough. Our M is hollow, shallow. And I can't see H as anything other than someone who has mistreated me - which makes him unappealing to me.

So I'm looking to pick up an extra shift. (Not to mention that we need the money... smh... never seem to get caught up, sigh) And I'm looking to rock the boat a little, shake up our work, dinner, tv, bed routine before it lulls me into acceptance.

Now I'm morose. Yuck.

So, I'll leave you with a joke.

Do you know why the ocean roars?



.... because it has crabs on it's bottom!

~~Peace~~

Jaye

[job]

Welcome back Jaye!
It's been a while, but things do sound like they are status quo in your area.

Oh! My! A Valentine's card and a gift card. What got into him? LOL! Well, at least he's still doing laundry! LOL!

He sounds like he does feel guilty about calling in sick to his job. Is he on thin ice w/them for the about of time he's been away? I had to laugh about his comment to you about hating to lie. That is priceless.

I'm sorry about the pizza place, but it's good that his mother and daughter spoke up and told him what they think about the deal. Of course you are to blame for him not doing it sooner in life. Yes, the man is lost and is trying to find his compass, but it will take a long time to for him to figure out that happiness comes from within.

I'm sorry to hear that S20 is still wrestling w/his anxieties. I do hope that he can settle down just a bit and enjoy his life. When is his 21st birthday? If it's a ways away, he needs to think about getting on them now. It's time for him to learn about his situation on his own and not expect mom to diagnosis his issues for him. Mom you are the best, but it's difficult for him to let you go as a crutch and that may create more anxiety if he fears you are letting go.

Good for you about not paying your D19's phone bill. Time for her to learn how to stand on her own two feet and I'm sure she'll do just fine. However, don't be surprised if she returns home in the next 6 months. I can't see that relationship working out for very long.

As for S17, I can relate to all of the snow and possibly having to go later into the school year to make up days. We've got a number of days here to make up as well. Has the school board recommended the students going during spring break, etc? That's what our kids are doing. They are in school today, which normally would be a holiday for them and their spring break has been reduced by at least 2 days.

You sound good and on an even keel. Don't wear yourself out w/working and then coming home and trying to maintain your place. I do hope that you are carving out some time for you, i.e., to do something special for yourself. At least w/your h away for a few days, you can enjoy the peace and quiet.

Please take care of yourself.