Hoping to still move forward, huge setback

[jp787]

CBT, I am just like your W, I don't want to have sex much at all. I was all about it while perusing my W, now that she is back my desire has diminished greatly and I don't know why. I am working like he11 to figure it out though.

[lovethehub]

How are things going?

[cbtdad]

Hey LTH!!
Thanks for checking in.
Things are going well. I've been working a whole lot so I've got busy and haven't had a chance to post in a while. The holidays went very well. So much better compared to last year:)
Communication between us continues to get better and better. We are beginning to discuss my issues about physical touch in therapy and I think it's helping. She is undertanding more that it is how I feel "wanted and loved"
We really have settled in to a great home, which she has put a lot of effort into and I thank her for it all the time. Our son is so much happier now and it makes us both feel really good about putting everything we have into this marriage. We both came from broken homes and we don't want that for him. We can't control that in the future, but we are trying to give him a better example than we both had growing up.
We have really narrowed down my anger with the past. It just comes from still being hurt. My New Years resolution is to try my hardest to leave the past in the past. We have discussed it all, we have set boundaries and we are both on the same page. There is no reason to bring it up any further, except maybe in MC.
I am trying to be patient with the sex issue and she really doesn't know why she isn't in the mood ever or at least that is what she is telling me. I've thought about going on a sex therapist and even brought it up to her and she said that might be a good idea.
We shall see. Next week will be an exciting MC session.
We have been asked to be a test couple with the creator of the type of counseling we are doing here. We will have a session with him and be videoed while other therapists watch. Our MC has said he has done 8 of these and each time it seems to put the therapy on red bull or turbo charge. His words. Lol

[JayMan]

cbt, it was interesting reading about your "blow up" on 10/20. A similar thing happened with my W and I before Christmas - sort of physical in that W was trying to slap and scratch, and I bear-hugged her until she calmed down. It was the first time anything like that had happened, but it was almost like squeezing the gunk out of an infection. I think we are probably more clear and fair and stop arguing very quickly.

One thing I would say about your W not touching/ML - I know with my W, she is facing up to lots of junk about herself that she doesn't want to, and doesn't like to admit. So there is a lot of emotional toil going on under the surface, because I believe many WAW that have As work so hard to justify themselves that, when they have to face the brutal truth, it stinks. Also, you've spent many months working on yourself, and I know my W has feelings of inadequacy because I've become the "spouse only a fool would leave" - while she's a cheater who has emotional issues, blew a bunch of money, acted like a fool in front of all of our friends and so on.

Not sure if your W thinks the same, but food for thought.

Oh, and my W told me, "If you didn't bring up OM, I'd never think of him again."

[lovethehub]

CBT,

I am glad things are going so well and the MC opportunity sounds fantastic. I believe the sex thing will work out, as I said, it took me a long time, too because that was the last thing to fall back into place. When you feel unloved by someone for a long time, it takes a while for all of the feelings to come back and having sex just to appease ends up with you feeling worse and it takes even longer to become whole again.

[cbtdad]

Thanks for posting JonF. Just cress your post on piecing forum. I will post over there. But thanks for sharing your experiences with your wife. I believe the less I bring up past the more it helps. My only concern is that I have to let it go regardless because she will have hard time ever letting it go. She is friends with OM's friends now. She will run into people in the same circles with him always because of her horse riding. This is were trust becomes upmost importance with me. The good news is I do trust her. The bad news i still have those nagging thoughts in my head telling me not to. They have gotten better and better over time and they get a lot a better when we don't discuss the past.
This past couple of weeks have been by far the best since we began reconciling our marriage. It has taken a long long time to get here and still have a long long way to go.
LTH, you know I want that physical connection so bad.
I think we had a major breakthrough with MC today. For the first time in weeks we didn't have to go back and talk about an argument or fight or blowup or anything like that over the week we haven't seen him. So it allowed MC to start diving into past. He began with W and she actually began to open up about her childhood. If you knew my W you would realize this is a huge deal. It's like a vault. She uses humor to deflect it all the time and he called her out on it and it worked. Looking forward to more because I think this gets to some of her issues with physical touch. Not sex, but holding hands, kissing, cuddling, etc
The affection is really want I'm looking for. The sex is a by product. I haven't instigated and its been over a week since we have had sex. But in ok with it because I know it's a process that we are working on. I believe it starts with the affection and love first

[uRworthy]

Hiya C, just wanted to stop by and say hi. Happy to see that things are moving foward and keep getting better.

You have to continue to dig in and have patience. This all wasnt broken in a short timeframe, so, it aint gonna get fixed in one either.

I hope you continue to have opportunities for your w to delve into her childhood. That often holds the key for a lot of our learned behavior.

You keep being you, my friend. You can never go wrong if you are.

[cbtdad]

Thanks Urworthy!! Always great to hear from you.
We had a our special therapy session yesterday. It was unbelievable.
In see why our therapist said it would put our therapy on "turbo charge or red bull"
We had a session with a trainer for EFT couples therapy, the type of therapy we are doing. Our session was videotaped and while 30 or so other therapists watched from another room.
I was so proud of my W. she was so nervous at first and I was worried she would shut down. But she opened up big time. When we left she said since MC was in the room with us she felt comfortable because she trust him and trusts that he wouldn't put her in a situation that was harmful.
That was good to hear.
The session started off asking us where we were at and how we felt in our relationship right now. We both said we had come a long was and were very happy at the moment. The therapist asked W about some childhood things. Wife talked about her parents divorcing at 5 and how her dad left and at 8 years old told her he came first and had to take care of himself. Also talke about her mom not being there either. How she felt abandoned as a child.
Well guess what I did for a year and half leading up to D-day.
I basically abandoned her. She talked about how the person she loved the most wasnt there for her. I wasnt, I know this.
There is a lot to this, but its amazing hiw she is begining to open up about her past.
At one point this led into her A. I brought it up and used te word "affair"
Her deamenor completely changed. She got a little guarded. The therapist noticed it and asked her what that was all about.
She told the therapist she hates the word "affair"
She said she feels like you have to be in a relationship to have an affair and didn't feel like we had one. She said that word makes her feel like it was all her fault why we separated and almost divorced.
LTH, this is what I am wondering. Do just have to be patient with this? I feel like she doesn't want to "own" it? It gets me upset because I feel like she is blaming the affair on me. I wish she would say, "yes you did what you did, but I still made my choices to have an affair and that was wrong"
We do not discuss the past anymore other than in MC and it has made a world of difference. I just wish she would not make me feel like I'm completely responsible for her decisions.
I know why it happened and I have accepted that.
At the end of therapy we got feed bak from other therapists watching.
It was overwhelming. So much about te progress we have made. A lot about our body language towards each other and how we "look" happy.
They said that I seem very loyal and that W seems very brave.
But the year jerker at the end was.
The therapist that did the session said that one onlf the therapist was tearing up and said that we are giving our son the greatest gift we can by fighting for our marriage. She said she wished her parents had done te same thing.
It meant a lot to both of us and we both started tearing up.

[lovethehub]

LTH, this is what I am wondering. Do just have to be patient with this? I feel like she doesn't want to "own" it? It gets me upset because I feel like she is blaming the affair on me. I wish she would say, "yes you did what you did, but I still made my choices to have an affair and that was wrong"

My H felt the same way, that I was blaming him for my A. I never blamed him for it but I know that by trying to get him to understand why I did it, he felt as if I was blaming him and it came across as blame. I also never thought I was justifying it when I really was. For example, he would say "I can't believe you had an A, I would never do that" and I would try to get him to understand all of the things I had done to change our M before it happened. At the time, I thought, "if I just keep saying it he will understand how hurt, lonely and broken I was but he was hearing "it's your fault I did it".

It's hard to explain and it is why I wrote what I did on Jon's page...the entire burden feels as if it is on you, the cheater, and that whatever the other person did doesn't matter at all. As the cheater, you are standing there screaming (literally or figuratively), "Hey, wait a minute, what about everything you did to me? That no longer matters because I cheated?" I wanted to hear my husband say "I am sorry. I know I wasn't there for you and I understand why you did what you did". He actually did say it but it was lip service and that was very clear by his actions and by the fact that he kept bringing it up and blaming me. Understanding why someone did something does not mean you condone or agree with it. I, too, felt as if we were not in a relationship and truly thought my H didn't care if stayed or not. I didn't want a divorce but I didn't want to be alone anymore. Not a good choice at all, it just seemed like one at the time. If the cheater doesn't feel their S understands how and why this happened, they are just blamed, they are the one who has to do all of the work to make it better. Even when you want to, it's a tough place to come from because you may never really get what you need from your S, which is true forgiveness, true understanding of just how alone and vulnerable you were to even make that decision and equal footing in repairing the damage.

What I am trying to say in response to your feeling that she doesn't want to 'own' it is that I don't think that is true. I think she still feels you don't understand how hurt and devastated she was and she is trying to get it through to you. Once I apologized to my H when I really understood and didn't justify, I quit looking for him to 'own it' and to 'get it'. Believe me, she gets it, she just might be talking about it with the wrong words. If her actions show you she is serious about your M, she is working towards a better M, will it matter to you if the words she uses don't ever match what you are expecting? (Use my example above, I was blaming and H took it as blame but I THOUGHT I was saying something completely different.) As for sex, what you have posted about your counseling experience and her opening up about basically being abandoned by both parents and then feeling the same about you, it is easy to see how she is trying to move forward but, at the same time, protect herself from feeling abandoned again. Those cheated on forget that the cheater also needs to build trust in their S again because they were deeply hurt and let down by you prior to their A.

I think you are lucky to have found what appears to be a great therapist and I hope that as you continue to work through this, she will be able to give you the physical love and affection you need and deserve.

[cbtdad]

Thanks LTH. Your insights are so helpful in my situation.
She is definitely showing by actions that he wants to be in this marriage.
You brought up a very good point in your post. I hadn't truly forgiven her for this months ago. The last month or so since we have stopped talking about it things have gotten so much better. In my mind I completely understand why this happened and what led to it. But you know what, I haven't verbalized that to her. I haven't told her that. I plan on doing that very soon. I believe she needs to hear it.
I get why it happened, I get why she needed to feel wanted by someone. It still hurts me to think about, but hurt and forgiving are two different things and I need to tell her that.