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Originally Posted By: doubledown
. . . At this point, my thought is that if she doesn't rush into filing and we are peacfully cohabitating, I will be able to continue my DBing and 180's along with GAL activities . . .



My recommendation would be for you to "180" your 180s
at this point. A strong, no-nonsense legal + financial + relational stance right now MIGHT be your last best shot at this, DD.

and "x 5" because she now knows that you knew all along, and yet played nice with her to try to win her back.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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I haven't retained one, but I did take advantage of a free 30 minute consultation from a partner attorney at A.D.A.M. (American Divorce Association for Men). They offer a 1 hour case evaluation for $95. I guess I should probably do that.

Basically, he said that I would need to file for divorce in order to put exparte orders in place, preventing W wife removing property or children from home until formal terms were decided. That's not really something I want to do.


Vince B
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Hmm. That's a tricky one. Pissing her off will surely evaporate her willingness to work amicably through this.


Vince B
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Originally Posted By: doubledown
Hmm. That's a tricky one. Pissing her off will surely evaporate her willingness to work amicably through this.



Good luck then. You still don't get it, DD. I'm not saying to be a DIKK; I'm saying that trying to do the "Mr. Nice Guy" approach has clearly NOT worked, and now that she knows that YOU Knew all along that she was cheating on you, and yet you continued to try to woo her???

I just don't know what else to say to you. Maybe you should go back and read some of the old posts from HopefulStill and Accuray and some others to you, in light of these recent developments, and see if they may have contained some things that might still be able to help you.

I'll leave you with this: there's a reason why they put that little "v" in between the names of the parties in a potential divorce. The process is adversarial, by design. I had to file, and play that game, and it's NOT in my nature -- AT ALL.

I also saved my marriage, by 180'ing the "Mr. Nice Guy" stuff while simultaneously working on my wife's legitimate marital complaints, as well as my own individual issues.

Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Starsky:

please don't misinterpret my response as unappreciative. I'm thinking out loud with the first thoughts that come to mind.

I certainly appreciate your advice and always consider what you provide and how I think it may go over in my situation.

What the heck do I know!?

I'll move forward with a case evaluation and see what I can do to cover my A.

Thanks again for your advice. It's truly appreciated.


Vince B
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DD,

Well, you got through BD. It's a shame it wasn't on your terms, but it is what it is now, so you'll deal with it and learn.

I may be all over the place here as I'm taking time out from work to post to you (so forgive what may be a disjointed post).

What are the rules in Michigan with regards to one spouse being unfaithful? In my state, it can cost the unfaithful spouse money and custody rights (in some instances) and is never looked upon favorably if it can be proven. I ask because it may be part of the reason that your wife is denying an ongoing affair. It may, in fact, be over, but I doubt it. To Starsky's point- take nothing she says as the real truth.

I heard the same stuff from my wife - "I appreciate all the changes you've made, BUT......". It sounds to me as if your wife was waiting for you to dump her, but became impatient when you didn't and decided to beat you to it. Many WAS want the LBS to look like the bad guy that broke up the marriage. It helps them save face later. My wife flat out told me that she had been trying for months to get me to dump her by making herself impossible to live with.

At this point I agree with Starsky's plan - just remain polite and aloof. I would continue your changes, but don't expect to get credit for your actions. You're just showing her that you really have changed, and that you ARE this new person. Avoid pursuing at all costs.

The fact that your wife pulled the trigger for D even after noticing your changes does not mesh with her affair having ended. Why would she leave someone that was meeting her needs if she had nobody else? It doesn't make sense. You have a home and two children together. If there were no one else in her life that she was trying to free up time (and eliminate guilt) to see, then she would have given your marriage a year to sort out.

I would investigate and find out the truth about her affair. You can't have her living there and cake eating right in front of you. You must have boundaries.

Do not continue to argue with her. Funny thing about human nature- even when we know we are wrong, we will argue ever stronger against someone we dislike just so they don't win. In other words, whenever you go to tell your wife you will be ok, or that she can love you again, or the OM is no good for her, she will dig in even harder to prove you wrong. Just lead through your actions.

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Originally Posted By: doubledown
Starsky:

please don't misinterpret my response as unappreciative.


I don't, not at all, DD. I know you appreciate the help you get.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

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Oh, and I got letters from my wife too, listing all of the bad things I had done in the M. It felt, at the time, like she was building her case for D. I took those letters as things to improve upon, but also realized it was trumped up through her fog to make a comparison between me (all bad) and the OM (all good).

I say this so you don't panic. You've actually got much more time than you think. Just don't make the mistakes of the past and sit idle during this time. Use it to your advantage. If you do the wrong things, you can quite literally drive her out of your home.

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Doubledown,

You have been getting good advice recently.

I read your thread.

This is the SECOND time she's cheating on you. Last time you pleaded for your marriage, begged her to stay and it lasted for a while. The relationship cooled off. What's her M.O? You got it: cheating. Cheating is in her blood. So she cheated on you AGAIN.

The question you should be asking yourself, is not, "What kind of man do I need to be to make this woman stay with me?", but rather, "Do I really want to stay with a two-time cheater who does not believe in marriage or till-death-do-you-part?" Yeah you might trick her into staying with you again, but sooner-or-later, when you deliver a less than perfect life performance, she'll cheat again, and again.

THIS SECOND time she cheated, you said nothing, you were hoping to confront her about the affair, but you didn't She beat you to the punch and you scrambled and begged and pleaded for the marriage.

She has all the power. The more you try to save this marriage the more you are going to LOSE her and your children, your house and your income.

She keeps beating you to the punch, keeping you needy, off-balance and pathetic. In dire situations, where you suck at Divorce-Busting (which most of us do, when we are constantly off balance and needy), Michelle, in her book, talks about the Last Resort Technique, After The Last Resort Technique and Ultimatums. Read them. Live them.

Let her go. It's the only way to win her, and it's the only way to keep your kids, house and money in case she doesn't have a change of heart.

Go see a family practice lawyer. Tomorrow. Right away.

Do not leave your home. Not now. Not unless you decide it's what YOU want and you have a separation agreement in hand and/or you are selling it. Better that she leaves. Do not agree to bird-nesting (where you each move in and out of the house)unless you have thought it through.

Ask yourself, "If we get a divorce, what do I want?" Be clear. This is very important. Do you want the house? Do you want shared custody? Do you want your wife to leave? She says she doesn't want anything -- just for the kids to stay in the house? Really? With whom? She knows the judge will favor her. Do you want to Bird-Nest (move in and out of the house regularly?) Is she willing to agree to move out to an apartment and have the kids see her every other weekend or 50/50?

I think when someone says they don't WANT anything, they just want to get out and get in their lover's arms. A good divorce attorney will talk her out of her generosity right-quick. Soon, YOU will will be living in an apartment seeing your kids every other weekend while your soon-to-be-ex and her boyfriend (who she claims she broke up with) will be raising your children and eating most of your income. Wake up dude.

It's too late to take boxing classes, get healthy, take fun hobbies and GET-A-LIFE to win her back. You need to do these things for you, NOT HER. Getting a life as a desperate measure to win the other person back is always detected as pathetic.

What you need to is to decide what YOU want if and when you divorce. Then work towards that. Then you will finally show some backbone, which is attractive and strong. It will either turn her around, OR, it will get you a fair settlement in the divorce.

She just told you she slept with another man and all you did was plead for her to stay. REALLY?

Show some strength. Do the last resort technique, not to win her back, but you win you some time to see a lawyer, figure out what you want and then be clear and strong when you tell her how this divorce is going to play out. She will see strength in you for the first time. Sometimes pushing her out the door is what works.

Frankly, I think your marriage is dead. Sorry. I've been there. When they are two-time cheaters and you are pleading for your marriage it's pretty tough to turn around. I'm not convinced the affair is over. Your wife has decided that the solution to your marriage problems is in someone else's arms. Frankly, a two-time cheater may not be worth keeping around.

Best of Luck,

Theoden




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Thanks Hopeful.

In Michigan, it's all pretty much no-fault. An affair may be looked at by the court when it comes to custody and or financial settlements, but it's not necessarily a game changer.

It's really hard to tell if she's actually being honest. Who knows?

I plan to continue with my self improvement and not pursue her.

I have noticed that the texting and earlier morning departures and later evening arrivals home have stopped since about two weeks ago.

Again, who knows?


Vince B
M=10 yrs T=13 yrs
M45 / H 44
2 Boys 5 & 8
D Day: 7/16/13
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