Shame can be a helpful emotion that helps us keep our behaviours and actions and words in check with our moral and ethical belief systems.
On the other hand, shame can be a horribly self destructive emotion that can lead to some very tragic endings.
I imagine you have picked up the "Divorce Remedy" book and understand how DBing works.
What words and actions of yours that have helped cause the breakdown in the M have you been working on changing? And for how long have you been doing those new, positive changes?
I'm sorry about the rambling posts. I was just very upset because I have been under a lot of stress lately with an illness in the family and rudenss and people being judgmental and gossipy which was very, very unhelpful and added to my stress and upset feeling and hurt feelings even more.
To answer your question. Yes, I have read and re-read the book and have even had some appointments.
I have done GAL. I go out with friends more. I try to not rely upon him for anything. I try to not bad mouth him and I also try to not bad mouth myself but that thing about shame is how others make me feel when I know they are talking poorly about me or him or our marriage. I have tried to laugh more. Dress nicer. Be a friend. I signed up for a 5k.
I have tried to not leave the last note of a conversation as a bad or angry one. I have tried to show him more respect. I have tried to make sure I am not 'chasing' him.
Truthfully, I am not sure. I just want to stop treading water alone! I defend my huaband even while in my heart I am very wounded by how I live my life with no emotional support from him, no emotional intimacy and so on. Friends and supportive family are great but they don't replace the heart break of this isolated, cold relationship! I equivicate between being 100% devoted to staying in this lonely marriage no matter because I WANT to be there for him in sickness and health, etc. I just thought it shouldn't be all unfun with no joy between us at all! And when I think like that, I feel tortured staying devoted to someone who obviously doesn't recipricate my feelings.
So how can you help? I'm not really sure. It seems there really is no hope for marriages in general when things get this lonely.
Hi Summer. I feel so sad for you. I have been where you are, and I felt ashamed too. I've spent a lot of time and used my distance from my H to learn some powerful things I couldn't have learned any other way, and I hope I might steer you toward them too.
What struck me in all of your posts was that your focus seems always pointed externally. It's about shame and judgment from other people, and what other people say, and wanting your H or someone else to care for you and give you what you need. It's about wanting other people to talk to him, not to you, about what concerns them, hoping that someone else might talk him into changing. You must feel so powerless, feeling like the control over how you feel is all in the hands of your H and other people.
That sense of where the control is, is a trick of the mind. You can just take it back.
I would strongly encourage you to read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. Ignore the abuse word in the subtitle, and ignore the parts that discuss physical abuse, if it doesn't apply.
That book has a section of advice for people who know someone in an abusive relationship and want to help, who see her suffer and know she's not being treated right, and what can they do? The book advises they can do almost nothing until SHE wants and gets help. They can tell her she deserves better, but they can't tell her what to do because it won't work if she doesn't want to or isn't ready to hear the reality of her sitch. And no one, not even an abuse treatment program, and definitely not family members or friends, can change how a man treats a woman...until he himself realizes what he is doing and wants to change with all his heart. Even then it's hard.
So where does that leave you?
You need to build yourself back up. I wish I could hand you some anti-shame spray. You are hurting yourself with how you're framing this. IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. How he treats you is 100% on him. What other people think or say is about him, not you. Try very hard to learn to either shut them out, ask them to stop, walk away when they reopen the conversation, or accept their help and support... The difference is you control how much of it comes in to reach you, you set your boundaries, and you allow them to help and not hurt you. And what people might be thinking that they aren't coming to you and saying, please stop mindreading, stop worrying about public opinion. If I could say anything helpful at all about how to do that, it's this: is your thought helping you move in a positive direction? If not, shut it off. Take excellent care of yourself and learn to block unhealthy thoughts and worries.
What the friends and family think is their problem, not yours. You need to focus on building yourself up and being whole and healthy IN SPITE of your H, in order to deal with your H.
The good news is that doing that will either help or be neutral in your marital relationship. Becoming whole and healthy, feeling your own feelings and no longer feeling other people's feelings will make you better able to set boundaries with your H that can improve your sitch.
The book I mentioned, to me, illustrated that it is possible to turn something like this around by refusing to accept, excuse, justify, tolerate, explain, or allow it. And sometimes it takes removing yourself from it. Many of the men cited in the book would never have sought to change until their W or girlfriend left them.
You cannot change him or make him want to change, and no one else can either. But you can decide what you will tolerate. Maybe start by writing a list of what you will no longer tolerate, or even just one or two things, and think about what you might say. You mentioned that your responses to him when friends stir you up enough have been to act angry toward him or be a jerk. Prepare other ways of setting boundaries.
Tell him at a neutral time when he seems potentially receptive, that you would like to have more xyz or less xyz, that you will be working on providing this respect to him and will be expecting this respect back from him. Ask him if he will agree to do this - without that part you've only just talked at him. He can disagree. You will learn then what your reality is so you can take actions...if your reality is that he does not agree to treat you with courtesy and respect will you leave? If he does agree, then the next step that is crucial is for you to then outline what you will do if this agreement is broken. Gentle reminder, walk out of the room, go home from his family's, move out for a night or two? If you don't plan on doing anything if he continues to disrespect you, then again you've only been talking at him. And he already knows that nothing will really happen because you've probably already suffered lots of disrespect without taking any action.
In a healthy relationship, you saying how you feel should spark interest in your partner to honor that and adjust his behavior because he doesn't want to have a negative impact on you. You're not in a healthy relationship. It's up to you to use your (respectful, loving) words and your (firm, consistent) actions to respond to your (clear, specific) boundaries about how you will be treated. You cannot leave this up to H waking up and coming around all on his own, or to friends and family talking sense into him. Have you seen already? This does not work. In all the books I've read this did not work for anyone. You must decide how you will be treated and be prepared to make that happen by your actions and words. Not angry, reactive, punitive words and actions to make him do something different, but loving, clear, respectful words and actions to hold yourself to a minimum standard of human courtesy and respect.
I don't know the exact words to write your boundaries into, only you can know that. I'm just trying to encourage you to take ownership of them. If you do not stand up and say what you deserve, you will not get it...no one else can bestow it on you if you're not willing to demand it for yourself.
I really hope you can see that's where you get your power back, and it will feel good.
Hugs to you, I can see you're going through a lot. Find the people who you feel good and strong around and gravitate to them. Tell people how they can help you, even if you believe the best help is for them to stop criticizing you and/or H. Good luck.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Thank you for replying. I have read your comment and reread it a few times since it is very detailed. I think I am stressed and overtired with this long-term family illness happening. (Regular illness, not violence. I'm just repeating that so it's clear. There is no violence here to worry about. In fact most peoples' fights have more gusto or words than ours do! Yet they seem to make up and move forward. our fights are more like a cold war.)
Anyways, that evening that I got so angry and posted, I did say something to him, and yes, it was in anger. I told him, "Shame on him. You are so inconsiderate towards me and I am done taking it." And then I expressed that I can't take the shame I feel for DEFENDING him for his coldness, rudeness, icyness or his dissing me me and that everyone sees! I also told him I just had a fight with someone who supported me all those times when HE didn't all because I was defending him. And I told him no more.
Since then, he has at least been less icy, cold, rude, or dissy. It's a start but it's still not acceptable, maybe for strangers but not for married people. I don't like this way of life with him.
Frankly, with most people, I tend to be the relationship nurturer and at this point, I truly am done with it. I'm done accepting second best from him or from so-called friends or family. And my boundary for any friend OR family is NO NEGATIVITY about my husband or anyone else. I have now developed a deep seated anger towards gossip and negativity. I also know that old stupid KARMA thing...what goes around comes around. Well, I don't chose to be the object of gossip or the participant of gossip. I'll be losing a lot more friends.
If I sound cranky and grumpy, it is because I am really beyond exhausted. I'm sure after a few nights of good rest, my attitude will be better. For now, yeh...I guess I am cranky. However, I am trying to draw boundaries and lines and not let drama or gossip pull me into more drama.
Hey there, glad you wrote back. You sound cranky and grumpy but also full of conviction about what you will stand for and where you draw the line. I think that's a good thing. I hope you get some rest. My H was not ever violent either, but he cut me down to a stuttering imbecile with almost nothing anyone could identify, not even me, as objectionable. If he didn't like me, and didn't act nice toward me, it was because of something I did, or some way I was, or that's the way it seemed to me. You'll be OK. Just stand up for yourself like you sound like you're doing here. Learn, though, what is effective boundary maintenance and what is ineffective sniping and griping. I did 20 years of sniping and griping, accommodating and tolerating less-than. It caused him to "fall out of love with me" and leave me. I hope you are able to get what you need. Hugs.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
I did get some sleep so I feel better, plus some of the other stuff that was going on has calmed down too. I did end up drawing a specific line with him about being inconsiderate toward me and/or rude and I said I was done taking it! I pointed out a specific instance (or two) at the time it happened and he has been less rude and inconsiderate since then. I also found the courage to ask for one major thing I wanted that meant a lot to me. I guess I will see what happens. I'll try to be hopeful and not pessimistic. (Expecting good things to come and not bad. It's a hard frame to get into my head since it's been bad for so long.)
