This is something I posted on 10/27/2010 and the thread got hijacked and locked up because of issues on the board at that time. So I am not going to link that thread to this one.
I would like to re-post it, as it is quite good.
I finally figured out my pass word so I am back!!
This is a letter from a person's H that I met on another board. She has given me permission to post it here. Her board name is "Stayed"
This will give you some insight into the mind of a MLC'er
Enjoy. ------------------------------------------------------------- (Stayeds husband) here. Stayed asked me to write to you about your present situation. Before I do, however, I need to say a couple of things:
1. I don't know your H, your relationship or anything about his present situation. 2. The fact that things turned around for Stayed and I may not be "the normal way these things turn out". 3. The feelings and experiences that I had may not be the same as those your H is experiencing.
That said:
I have loved Stayed my whole life. The things we have been through together and the obstacles that we have overcome with our marriage, our children, financial problems, work related issues and so on amaze me. We really were, and I believe we are again, a single team. I never doubted her absolute support and willingness to work and fight with me to get where we needed to be and she felt the same way about me. I'm not sure that everyone's relationship is so intense or all consuming so the starting points may be different.
In spite of all this I went through this period of madness in my life that really had little to do with Stayed. I was very unhappy and unsatisfied with my life. I think that at some point you realize that "this is my life" and maybe you aren't "where you thought you would be" or what you would be and somehow it is all very disheartening. You've had your shot and there really isn't much you can do to change your "lot in life". Maybe an affair is in some way a dramatic way of "taking action" of "doing something" or refusing to accept the status quo. You really don't have to accept "your reality" you can change things and plot a new course. All of this of course sounds very fascinating to a middle aged (or older) guy who is feeling somewhat disappointed in (sorry for) himself and thinks that "there should be more" to life. It defies rationale explanation but the allure of the fantasy (not the other woman the "new life") is so overpowering that even though you know it is nonsense you still carry on.
So you live your fantasy and you choose not to think about all the pain and damage that you are causing. There is an emotional train wreck happening all around you but you do a couple of things that let you "deal with it". You tell yourself that this happens all the time and therefore it is normal. People change and their needs change. I'm just moving on in pursuit of my new needs to take full advantage of what is left of my life. It would be unthinkable not to do everything possible to "be happy". That's the whole point of being alive isn't it? I didn't intend to cause any pain and suffering so the sooner we get through this part the better. People die, bad things happen in life and eventually we all get through it and learn to live with it. It's painful now but that won't last indefinitely. Eventually everyone will realize that this was "for the best".
There are lots of times though that you see the illusion for what it really is. It is hard to deal with so you block it by doing "all kinds of fun things". Keep yourself busy, go places, do things: eat in nice restaurants, go dancing, see movies, keep your mind busy. As long as there are bright lights and distractions you won't dwell on your own stupidity. When you get tired and your mind starts to wander you suppress it. I took anti depressants and sleeping pills so that I could just turn off and get some sleep instead of thinking about the whole situation. The sleeping pills worked great but I actually got annoyed because the anti depressants didn't make me feel good about the whole situation...what the hell was I paying for anyway?
You seek assurances from friends and family because you are "too close to the situation" to see it clearly. If they don't outright tell you that you are being an absolute [censored] you assume that their neutral or supportive comments like "no matter what you do you will still be my...(friend, brother, whatever) are more positive than they are. You hear what you want to hear and if they say something you don't like you ignore it and go somewhere else for re-assurance.
The second aspect of the whole thing is that it doesn't seem real. You don't feel the full impact of anything you do. You feel like you are living an adventure. I tell Stayed that it often felt like I was watching myself in a movie. The more I think about it the more this seems to apply. The fact is that when you are watching a movie, you know it is going to end, you also know that it isn't real. Unfortunately, unlike a movie where none of it is real, the situation you have created may not be real for you but it is absolutely real for everyone else. There is a part of you that knows you are not going to stay on the ride forever (or in the movie) and that when it is over you will come back to reality, you just don't want that to happen "right now'. So the bullshit drags on and on and the pain continues for everyone who isn't in the movie and for you when you have those moments that you realize that it isn't a movie either. Then you take your pills, drink and find "fun things" to do to drown out the painful thoughts.
The third thing is that you have an anchor in reality. It is like knowing that if things get a little too weird in a dream you can always tell yourself it is just a dream (even while dreaming) and if it gets real bad you can actually make yourself wake up. It doesn't matter how far you lean out the window, you can always pull yourself back in. Knowing that Stayed was worried about me (it's not me, I'm sick) and knowing that she wanted desperately to have me back made the melodrama of the movie even more intoxicating but more importantly it reassured me that I had an out. I knew that she would be there for me regardless of what sort of an idiot I was being because our love could transcend any stupidity.
So what does all this mean?
I'm not sure because people and relationships are different. I promised Stayed things several times and then let her down totally. When I made those promises I meant them but the other life was just so addictive that I fell right back into the illusion (movie or dream, take your pick). At some point, however, I realized that I was in danger of actually losing Stayed and that if that happened my life would be empty. No anchor, no way back, no reality, just a movie. I actually added this to my screenplay. Sure, she might say we were through but a couple of years from now when I came to my senses it would be so romantic getting back together...what the hell was I thinking. That's when I woke up.
So, I can't be sure and I would hate to offer advice (let's face it we know I'm an idiot) but if your h is having a similar experience to the one I had, then "chasing" him just reassures him that his anchor is still holding. It also adds to the drama of the movie. On the other hand, if you just let go he might be completely consumed by the illusion. There are numerous real movies that have used this theme; you see them all the time. They always rely on the gimmick that if you believe in something hard enough or if you love someone strong enough that you can bring them back from the brink and save them (even Darth Vader turned out to be salvageable in the end, realizing his mistake before he died). Sorry, they are just movies. Real people need to be shaken up and someone has to turn on the lights in the theatre.
So, if you stop chasing and checking up and worrying you might actually lose him. Would that be any worse than the suffering you are experiencing right now? How much longer do you want to hurt, be angry and confused? On the other hand, you thought he was your life partner and you feel that you are abandoning him if you don't try to "help him through this". It is a horrible situation to be in.
So, my suggestion would be to stop chasing and checking and reassuring him that the anchor is still holding solid. Quit making the movie more dramatic and exciting. Tell him:
That you want to work on the marriage, that you can forgive him and take him back but starting today your life is about you and not about his movie. You can't be sure where this decision will lead you but you need more than hopes and dreams that things will be the way they were. You are very sad and you feel very sorry for him and hope that he will be OK but you have had enough and you can't let this situation ruin two lives. If he comes to his senses and wants to be with you then you hope that happens before your life takes a new direction and the door closes. You are not going to live in the past and you are prepared to move on without him.
Then live your life as if he may not come back. Believe it, don't play it: he may not come back. If he doesn't then how will that be any worse than what you are living now? On the other hand, if he feels the danger like I did, he may be smacked back into reality. Depending on when that happens and where you are with your life you can make a decision at that time as to what you want to do.
Me54/H47 '08 H is "done" March '12 H moved out Brink of D, December '12 2014 totally reconciled! ...... "I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal." Jim Conway
This has been great to read because I am flipping between, is he in MLC, or is he just a selfish ar**hole, but I just never saw it these past 18 years?
So, do I write him a note? That second to the last paragraph--pretty much verbatim or leave things as they are--with me backing off quietly.
I read "Love Must Be Tough" by J. Dobson. He also recommends writing a letter to sorta make the point that you starting fresh. That the upheaval and stress made you a little wackadoo but now you are sane again and moving forward.
Would love to hear opinions on this. I've spent 8 months doing all the wrong things. Begging, Pleading, Making it Abundantly Clear that I'm waiting for my man. Ick.
So, he's been out there having a gay ol time. Well, not all the time but I did make it waaaaaaaayyyyyy easier. I guess I said all there was to say. But, I still wonder if I should make some sort of declaration like the above. You know, something to the effect of....
You know I have struggled since our separation. When we married, I thought it was forever. And, I still believe in marriage and I don't believe in divorce. I have accepted your decision, though, and hold no grudges.
I really struggled these past months dealing with the reality that our marriage is over. I'm not proud of how I behaved, but please know it came from a place of hurt, shock and grief. I've always felt I could be honest with you about what I feel and this was no exception. I allowed you to see into my heart.
That was then, this is now. I'm facing today head-on and doing what I can to remove you from my heart. I will always be baffled how something so good could turn so sour. But, I'm done analyzing it.
If I never hear from you again, I know I will be fine. I will miss what was, and you, but I will get on. In some ways, I see how this forced me out of my comfort zone and I'm grateful for that.
I wish you well.
Heather
Something inside me says, maybe not today, but maybe a few weeks from now... this would be a good thing for me and maybe our marriage.
Thoughts?
"You know, it's times like these when I realize what a superhero I am." Tony Stark/Iron Man
“Focus on what you can do, then do it with all your heart.” Lois Wilson
Heather, You can write a note, but then either tear it up on place it somewhere safe. Your h isn't ready to hear or read what you have to say.
Love Must Be Tough doesn't work well w/the mlcer because you are dealing with an emotionally hurt person. It's good to read this book and see what types of tools Dobson offers, but it's not one of the "tools" that I would suggest to use for someone in deep mlc.
Heather, there will come a time when you can give your letter to your h, but it's not going to be for a while. Replay scrambles their brains and they really couldn't give a fig how we feel right now.
Please take care of yourself.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Really Good stuff.... "I GOT IT!" Its only been officially 4 days since I have dropped the rope. I have let him know with my words that this is enough, and I am not waiting. I have then since been backing it up with my actions. He keeps trying to see if I am "there"... doing his own temp checks & I AM NOT!
thanks for sharing the inside mind of a MLC!! I needed to hear this!!
M:46 H:49 T:20yrs myD:22 H distant summer/12 H sleeping in b'ment: Nov/12 BD: Dec 2/12 asked me begin to move end of Jan/13 moved Jan 7/13 (left my stuff) "agreed" to "working on r" Mar 3/13(lipservice!)
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Hi LanceSijan.... I am very curious about this... the mind set of a MLC.
Do you know how long it took before Stayed's wife, decided she had enough and was able to drop the rope? Stopped chasing & was able to carry on?
After Stayed felt the danger & reality smacked him... what did he do next?
Its really sad that it takes the drastic measure of reality before they smarten up... too bad that they cannot realize it in the moment (it would save a lot of heartache, funds, etc)
I too have spent a lot of my time apart from Xbf assuring him that I was still his anchor. (good way to call it!!). I understand completely that he is wanting to watch his movie play out, with the comfort of knowing I am still here... except I have changed my dynamic recently... I've turned the lights on in the theatre...THIS SHOW IS OVER!
Did they reconcile?
M:46 H:49 T:20yrs myD:22 H distant summer/12 H sleeping in b'ment: Nov/12 BD: Dec 2/12 asked me begin to move end of Jan/13 moved Jan 7/13 (left my stuff) "agreed" to "working on r" Mar 3/13(lipservice!)
Sorry Lance Sijan is still tied up over at the Hanoi Hilton after being shot down in his F-4 and then winning the medal of honor so I will try to answer for him
Yes Stayed is reconciled with her husband, her bomb drop was around Oct 2005.
I think he was in the FOG about 3 years and then even when they got back together things were still not totally smooth.
Originally Posted By: stayed
Quote:
Could you or your H answer this question? When your H 'woke up' was it suddenly or gradual, Did he start to see that he was living a fantasy and yet run back into the fantasy and in their word ping pong about? What really made him realize; beside you moving on and scaring him that his happy ending may not be a reality, when he was ready; (in his movie) that he had to do something Now and not tomorrow??
Sorry, I didn't get back to you sooner. I asked my h personally about your question. No, it was not SUDDEN, it was very, very slow. He says he started having more and more realizations that the situation he was in, was a HUGE FANTASY. He also became worried that he could end up with NOBODY.... ME OR HER... OR ANYBODY else for that matter. He told me it was like having 2 people living within him. One was his intellect, that knew he was being really stupid.... and then another emotional person, who wanted to believe that his relationship with the OW was different, then others, his was true love. He said the emotional one was much more powerful then the intellect, although, he thinks he hated to admit he could be JUST as stupid as anybody else.
Everything about us annoyed them, even if we got hurt, somehow, it was our fault. We were doing it to get their attention... or just get any attention. Really crazy thinking.... they are the teenagers, they never were.... defiant, mean, belligerent, arrogant, aggressive, passive aggressive, not very nice teens and would have been quite a handful for any parent.
hope this helps .... hugs...
I was trying to find the exact time line but I can't for the moment. Just know that Stayed advises all LBS to look out for themselves first. Really we can only control ourselves and we must protect ourselves too.
Sorry Lance Sijan is still tied up over at the Hanoi Hilton after being shot down in his F-4 and then winning the medal of honor so I will try to answer for him
Thanks Cadet
You know that I was a cadet once too! Graduating in 1965 - I think we may have even attended the same school. Since I just got back from Hanoi I thought I would bump up this thread for everyone's entertainment.
Sorry Lance Sijan is still tied up over at the Hanoi Hilton after being shot down in his F-4 and then winning the medal of honor so I will try to answer for him
Thanks Cadet
You know that I was a cadet once too! Graduating in 1965 - I think we may have even attended the same school. Since I just got back from Hanoi I thought I would bump up this thread for everyone's entertainment.
Sorry Lance Sijan is still tied up over at the Hanoi Hilton after being shot down in his F-4 and then winning the medal of honor so I will try to answer for him
Thanks Cadet
You know that I was a cadet once too! Graduating in 1965 - I think we may have even attended the same school. Since I just got back from Hanoi I thought I would bump up this thread for everyone's entertainment.
Please enjoy!
Hey Lance, just wanted to say Hi !!!
Boat....how have you been ?????
Lance ???
Cadet ?? Congrats on the new "Mod-Ride" Hannah : )
Right to the point of the LBS reality. The choice we need to make. Continue on with the pain and madness or getting off the ride. Either way, something needs to change or , as the letter says, TWO lives will be destroyed. We have a chance of making ours better with or without the MLC. For 3 years, I continue living for him and goimg up and down with him until I realised that a life without him could NOT be worst than this. He lost me!
I think this is quite timely for many of us here on the MLC forum, wise word indeed from a former MLCer.
Is there an "equivalent" one from a female MLCer?
M 10, T 18 M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6 EA: Oct 12 ILYBINILWY: Jan 15 BD: Aug 15 Separated: Sep 15 Miss you: Jun 16 Aug 16: Dating (!) Oct 16: Selfishness returns... currently: disgusted
Hi sotto, I think I have seen Wonka's one but not Amy C's
Any chance of adding them to the first post for others to view?
M 10, T 18 M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6 EA: Oct 12 ILYBINILWY: Jan 15 BD: Aug 15 Separated: Sep 15 Miss you: Jun 16 Aug 16: Dating (!) Oct 16: Selfishness returns... currently: disgusted
Thanks folks, just realised I have read it but some revision never goes amiss, thanks again!
M 10, T 18 M: 36, W: 35, D: 8, S: 6 EA: Oct 12 ILYBINILWY: Jan 15 BD: Aug 15 Separated: Sep 15 Miss you: Jun 16 Aug 16: Dating (!) Oct 16: Selfishness returns... currently: disgusted
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
My question is...I went dark on my W about a week and a half ago. Would it be wise to tell her the bottom portion of this letter at this point? Or should I continue to remain dark?
My question is...I went dark on my W about a week and a half ago. Would it be wise to tell her the bottom portion of this letter at this point? Or should I continue to remain dark?
My personal thoughts are nothing you SAY is going to make any difference if she is truly having an MLC.
I would also suggest you start your own thread here. Sounds like you found my welcome post.
Hey there old friend. Did you get the peanut butter cookies I sent to the POW camp? I chilled the balls first so they would hold their shape.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
I found this thread about a 6 months after I was BD'd. 6 months later my H had an awakening and he asked me what was wrong with him. I let him read this story. (copy paste in e-mail and deleted the names)
He told me that this was very similar to what he felt. Awakening was gone about a day later. Back in full fog. Don't think he still remembers any of this if I would ask him now.
Anyway, I thought it was very helpful to understand what they are going through.
Me(45)EXH(44) M:15 T:18, S19, S16 & S16 04/19-02/20 ILYB & OW1 12/20-08/22 OW2 (+pregnant-his child) 03/22-Divorce official 06/22-08/23 Reconnecting 09/23-possible back with OW2
