Righting my Marital ship; 1st stop: Retrouvaille

[LITB]

Thanks for stopping by Denver. I'm glad to hear things are better with you as well.

I agree with everything you posted.

One thing that you and I talked about awhile back, is that we both made a significant amount of changes (going to school on our M/R), while our wives were finding their ways on their own.

I sometimes find myself thinking in the midst of a convo with my W, "if you would only do this or do that, it would completely change things for the better". It is a challenge not to offer too much advice to fix her problems. I have to tell myself, "she just wants me to listen, zip it."

It is tough for me, but I try to be aware of these things. You may have some of the same challenges in your sitch.

[Denver_2010]

I definitely do LITB. I also have to stop myself from trying to 'teach' my W some of the lessons that I have learned here. It is frustrating, because I think that she and our M would be much better off if she applied some of the things that I have learned.

Then again, I need to continue focusing on myself and making sure that my own personal changes continue.

[2chiquitos]

I agree with you LITB. zip it. Reminds me of how women like to be heard and men like to problem solve.

You probably already know this but when she talks just repeat what she's saying. It's called, reflecting.

I know what you mean about struggling with this. We are so used to having a certain conversation but it's with practice that we need to improve our listening skills ;-)

[LITB]

zip it.

I almost spit my drink out when I read this. lol Of course I don't say everything that I think. I have a new and improved filter. Actually don't think I had one before.

Since my last few posts a couple of weeks ago, my sitch has improved. I've worked to identify the ways that I was pressuring my W and revising my actions to give her space.

I have also decided to lead by my actions. Don't get me wrong Vero, I still talk. lol

During one of our recent convos, I told her that I will stand for her and for our marriage. There was a lot more to that convo, but that is the gist of it. I could feel a sense of relief from her since that day.

As a matter of fact, this past Sunday, she turned to me and said, "thank you for everything you do." That meant a lot.

I realize there are no guarantees in life, however having a fulfilling M/R will not be for a lack of effort on my part. I will not come to a point in my life and look back with regret because I didn't man up for what I believe in.

[2chiquitos]

"thank you for everything you do." That meant a lot.

This is awesome!!

[LITB]

Quick update....my marital ship has a plethora of holes in it. My W no longer wants to work on our marriage and will be moving out at the end of next week.

I am confident that she is in the midst of a crisis. In December she said that she wasn't sure why or how her emotions were on such a roller coaster. She mentioned that she was going to seek help, because she was doing nobody any good. Less than a week later she said she didn't want to work on our M and planned on moving out. Coincidently her mom came to visit for the holidays and apparently told her nothing is wrong with her. Great, the enabling MIL shedding her infinite wisdom.

This week I am down in SoCal with my kids visiting Disneyland and earlier this week we went to SeaWorld. I am back to trying to focus on myself and my children.

As for my thoughts on my sitch, I am about at the end of my rope. I've done everything that I know how to do and was willing to do anything else to keep my M and family intact. My thoughts have been quite consistent for about a month to let my W know that I am done. Obviously I know things change, so I want to take my time with this step.

As an aside, I wish logistics would have allowed us to take things slower when we agreed to reconcile. Ah well, live and learn.

[LITB]

One thing I forgot to mention; this time is completely different than the first. My W hasn't asked for a D. She still wears her ring. She hasn't told many people besides her mom and she practically doesn't even touch her phone. It's like she has almost closed herself off to the world.

[angel61]

LITB,

You know, the same thing happened to us. My H and I went to retrouvaille in November, it was a very emotional time, I could see H's committment to working on the M. Come April/May, we were in trouble again. H had pulled back, big time, was again talking about leaving, about things not working out, about not feeling anything, etc.

You know, I think that once the momentum from retro goes away, the couple is once again left with ...reality.

That is why they say that there should be NO expectations... because nothing could really bring back that "in love" feeling, that excitement that a new relationship feels. I think that is what your W is looking for, and that was what my H was looking for. But that is not what true love is, right? I think retro has gotten it right there, and a lot of it is really in the mind. But I don't think that the wayward spouses get it , at that point.

In a way, it is a withdrawal from the intensity of the emotions that they felt before they fell back to earth with a thud. Its true that maybe the OP's no longer are there, or have gone on, but they are now feeling that void.

My H at that point said to me that it wasn't the OW, it was just that he wanted to be happy and he realized that he still wasn't happy with me. He felt I was pressuring, and expecting.

I just stuck it out, and let him be. I dropped all my activities towards M bilding. No R talk, no reading of Love Dare, no praying together, no dialogue. I just thought to myself, what will be, will be. I'm tired, Ive tried, thats it.

In the end he stayed and without talking about it anymore at this point (we didn't even dialogue anymore after that), our R took a turn for the better. I applied the principles of retro, zipped it up, just gave my unconditional love without pursuing or begging....then we started volunteering for Retro, it gave us something to work on together.

In the end, I think that as life gets back to normal, they start recognizing that is how life really is supposed to be - the daily grind, the kids giving you trouble, an argument here and there.....and they no longer become reasons to leave.

I see my H appreciating the things we have together. Just a baby step at a time, and its been more than a year now since retro. We are not a lovey couple at all, and we still have a long way to go. I haven't heard ILY yet. But he did celebrate our 15th wedding anniversary, and he does talk about our retirement together, so I guess he is not thinking of going away.

Let her be, she has a lot to process. I think it might be more straightforward for men, women usually have convoluted minds. I hope and pray though that she thinks about it well and clearly. Give her her space, don't discuss, but don't be the first one to walk away, let her be the one to do that if she wishes.

Patience. Piecing is hard!

[2chiquitos]

I'm so sorry to hear that W has reconsidered R.
I'm sure that must've been like another blow. I'm glad to hear you are traveling with your kids. Too bad it's cold this week in SoCal!

Keep us updated! I hope your finding ways to live in the present moment.

[25yearsmlc]

Quick update....my marital ship has a plethora of holes in it. My W no longer wants to work on our marriage and will be moving out at the end of next week.

Well, dang, what can I say? Ouch!...SIGH...bummer. I'm really sorry LITB. Truly I am. It's always in the back of our minds, isn't it? "What if they go again?"

And, OTOH, they must fear that we might hold over their heads the whole "crisis", or throw it in their face, OR that we'll do (again) some of the things we did that drove them crazy or hurt them so badly, etc.

I am confident that she is in the midst of a crisis. In December she said that she wasn't sure why or how her emotions were on such a roller coaster.

Does she take meds or see an IC now?

She mentioned that she was going to seek help, because she was doing nobody any good. Less than a week later she said she didn't want to work on our M and planned on moving out.

Well, she showed some insight...and then REacted on emotion. I'm still hopeful she'll get some help and get clarity. Doesn't mean she'll return OR that you'll want that, but it's got to be better for the kids to have a healthy mom.

Coincidently her mom came to visit for the holidays and apparently told her nothing is wrong with her. Great, the enabling MIL shedding her infinite wisdom.

Well that's interesting timing...MIL visits and then your w crumbles? I GUESS it's not relevant now, but it sure is striking. I forgot your MIL's exact history but from the sounds of it, she's not exactly supportive of marriage and or you. OR she thinks "blood is thicker than..." and to SOME folks that means a carte blanche for any family member. I never do get that. if one of my kids wanted to break a vow, I'll be listening hard for some darn good reasons and LOTS of "LRT" before they walk out...and though I won't "disown" them for it, they'll know that i'd see them differently forever.

Sorry LITB, but Your mil's presence and the timing of your w's wanting to go, again, strikes a nerve in me.

FWIW, when h left for the "Last Frontier" (no sarcasm intended), my mil called our kids to chat with them, exactly zero times...(over two YEARS.)

The idea of her having the discomfort of having to talk to ME, to get to her only grandchildren, greatly outweighed her desire to talk to them.

FTR, I'd never have said a word about h to her at all. I wanted them to interact, (although not at my expense. I know for a fact she bad mouthed me to MY kids.)

Now it's too late, b/c mil died & is gone, and it's over.



This week I am down in SoCal with my kids visiting Disneyland and earlier this week we went to SeaWorld. I am back to trying to focus on myself and my children.

LITB, I hope the clarity of your position at this point, is something that brings you comfort.

Because, you have no healthy alternative to what you're doing; i.e., making you & the kids your focus.

Maybe you really do have to release your w to her journey, her "mission"...and we can hope/pray she makes it alright, without too much lasting damage.

Again, what's the healthy alternative?



As for my thoughts on my sitch, I am about at the end of my rope. I've done everything that I know how to do and was willing to do anything else to keep my M and family intact. My thoughts have been quite consistent for about a month to let my W know that I am done. Obviously I know things change, so I want to take my time with this step.

I hear you and I get this^^^...you're smart to remember the last line too...take your time with this step, of all steps.

And IF the chance of a recon ever comes up again, you'll do some things differently. And if not, you'll be that much farther along, on your own journey, that much faster...

As an aside, I wish logistics would have allowed us to take things slower when we agreed to reconcile. Ah well, live and learn.

Amen...and again LITB, I'm sorry you're in this situation.

I hope you are comforted by knowing that you truly did DB, you did Retrovaille, you changed. You are a better father, a better man, and will be a better h to someone, someday...I don't know what else you could do that you did not. I literally don't so if you have some option we/you have overlooked, let us know so we can hash it out.

For now, what's up with the custodial plans? Will you do ANYTHING differently this time? (Don't assume her comments about your behavior pursuing the kids, was completely wrong or only motivated by self interests. I mean, at least look inward to make sure you're doing what's best for THEM, first. "Winning" in this scenario is all about damage control for the kids...

there is no Charlie Sheen form of "WINNING!" in these situations. But YOU can be happy again, and will be, and so will the kids.

I'd urge you to read the thread with my name in it (not sure it's "my" thread but my screen name is on it). In there, I discuss some recent discoveries I made about my children's feelings for h, especially my youngest d. She deeply resents h, even though we've reconciled.


It's as if I thought Retrovaille's effect had filtered down to the kids, but alas, they did not attend Retro, just h and I did.

(I know it seems obvious now, but back then, I assumed whatever we did to stay intact as a family, was something all the kids would be on board with). They missed h when he left....at least at first.

Thank God I have no regrets about bad mouthing H, (TO THEM b/c God knows I did here)

so the negatives they have of him are theirs, not mine projected.

LITB, Protect yourself but remember to protect their hearts, most of all.

These changes you made, this work, your efforts, all these ^^ things, make all the difference. They matter.

BTW I see you as a success story here. You know, It's NOT all about staying married...

This process, this thing we call 'growth through pain' and Div Busting, is about the hard, brave, scary work of digging deep within ourselves, when we are hurt most.

It's about forgiving way more than we ever thought we could,
recommitting more than we ever thought we would,
choosing to love more than we ever thought we SHOULD...
and growing into our best selves - b/c we were forged like steel,

forged steel is forged into one of the strongest of metals, in heat and cold. Like that metal, we are forged by the heat of hot tempers, washed in the cold "water" of a detached distanced spouse's treatment... we survive, we thrive.

(How's that metaphor working? )

Keep us posted. The "and LATER ON..." stories are very important for all of us to grow with/from.

It's late and I'm rambling. But take care LITB, and again, let us know what's up with you & yours.