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This forum is about setting
Quote:
DB relationship goals
per DR/KLA.

Zig has agreed to work with anyone interested to:


Set goals
Refine them
Track progress

Repeat






Many of us learn best by helping others: learn, do, teach.

Zig has learned and performed these initial steps herself. We feel zig is well-equipped to begin.



POST AWAY... Tell zig what you wish you had MORE of in your relationship:


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Yes. What do you want? What short term goals can you set right now that may help you get there?


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W moves out of home 11/2010
Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012
I request divorce 5/2012
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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=110222#Post110222

I found this thread that many of us may have come across already, but I am posting it here if anyone wants to go peruse through it. It was started my Michele many years ago, and just reading through the first couple of pages,, gives a good concrete idea of how to go about setting goals.

There's a great post by calystra on pg 1 that is a good example of how to set the goals.

couple of things i pasted here from Michele's replies

"Your goals aren't specific enough. Ask yourself, "What will I be doing when I ______(Fill in the blank with your goals)?" what actions will you be taking? If I were a fly on the wall, what would I see you doing."

"If you're here for the first time, read the books and the articles on this site as well as people's advice and then set your goals. It's said, "If you aim at nothing, you'll hit it every time." So get going.
Michele"

As a start, I was thinking that we could state our goals in an "I will..." format. This has been used a lot on that thread and I think it works wonders to state it in those terms as it sets us straight on the path of going about it.

So,
set the goal (be very specific), state our actions towards reaching that goal and most importantly what Michele says above "What will I be doing when I ______(Fill in the blank with your goals)?"

and let's not forget the follow-up - to report for ourselves whether we achieved our goals or not, why we did or didn't, what worked and what didn't. the more specific we are in this process, the more we will learn about finding the correct solutions towards reaching our bigger goals.

One of the first goals I am planning to list is to commit myself to setting goals and monitoring my progress, no matter what is taking place in my sitch. I see now how I started out, and then veered off-track, because I hadn't consciously make that commitment to myself.

zig


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So I'm going to go first!!

1. I will commit to setting new goals every 2 weeks and monitoring my progress.

The action I will take towards this goal is to start a personal journal where I jot down everyday what I did towards each goal and if there were any results that I could see.

I will feel focused, consciously committed towards my goal setting and feel a sense of achievement

2. I will do at least 20 mins of yoga and then my meditation every morning before starting my day

The action: set my alarm earlier so I have more time. put on my favorite music (Shivkumar Sharma) so that I look forward to it even more

I will feel more centered and grounded at the start of my day

3. I will practice thought-stopping and focus only on the present, and not get caught up in the details of my sitch

action: when i start to react emotionally, I will recognize it immediately and turn my attention to things that make me feel good. if i can't do that right away, i will do it as soon as i can

I will feel more relaxed and able to focus on the things that are important for me and feel happier and more positive all the time

4. I will give s more quality time when we are together and nurture our relationship to a new level

action: I won't get on the computer to do my own stuff in the evenings when he is home, only after he goes to bed
I will encourage playing more games with him which he loves
I will get us out for walks together now that the evenings have cooled off
I will encourage him to come in the kitchen and cook together
We will go on a dinner date once a month, as I promised him last month and we did

I will feel less guilt about being distracted around him. I will feel like I am actively involved in his time at home, instead of passively letting him do is own thing in his bedroom because it is easier for me. I will feel that we are connecting and becoming closer

5. I will continue to see H from a loving place within myself, no matter what the details of our sitch are.

action: learn to understand where he's at better, learn to listen better, be supportive of what he wants even if I don't agree with it, keep working on my inner fears and misguided beliefs and learning to know who i truly am

I will feel more confident about understanding H. I will feel good about myself and stay honest with my own feelings. I will become more and more the woman I wish to be - warm, inviting, confident, serene, funny, relaxed, non-judgemental, tolerant and very very audacious - with a delicious strawberry in my mouth!!! grin


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Sooooo proud of you, zig! cool

I think I'll join you here in a bit for my own goals. smile

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I am too zig!!!!! YIPPEE!!

I will set my goals later this evening because i am at work now (!) and need time to think.

Love you girl!

Busting


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I am going to post my goals here too! I think it's great to have a central place to monitor and keep each other on track. And Zig is a great person for that...She did start the picnic afterall!

GOALS:
1) I will do my lists of gratitude each day and night. I've slipped a bit and I want to keep that up!

2) I will run at least three times a week and do crunches on opposite days. I SERIOUSLY want to lose that last 18 pounds!

3) When negative thoughts about H slip into my mind (mainly about how he is living his life and relationship choices he's making) I will be mindful and refocus on wishing him the best and accepting that can not make his choices or know what is best for him.

4) career - in the next two weeks I will hopefully have secured a promotion. if not I will have done my best in a presentation and will be happy for whatever the universe has in store for me if it isn't this particular role.

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Hi brit - I think you're right that doing this in a central place will give us a chance to encourage each other and keep things on track.

Great job on stating your goals - you're really clear about them. Next step is to get a lot more specific - and that's where I come in grin

For each one of your goals, let's take it a step further, and add what specific actions you will take towards achieving each one, and really important - how you will feel when you know you are achieving them.

and add a time line - what you expect to achieve within 1 or 2 weeks, as well as how you are going to monitor your results

on #2 - can you break it down so it's way more specific - how much weight in each week? how you'll do that, how far will you run, how many crunches etc

grin glad you're here

zig


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sign me up for goal setting with zig..

i have been so excited about it this morning and have started setting goals for the next two weeks..

but want to wait till i have time to think more and write it all down here..

AND, spoilers alert...

it includes an overnight retreat that i already booked for next weekend.. an actual solo trip.. to a place with no TVs or activities...and I am EXCITED about it which is a huge step on its own.

love you, zig!!


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Zig- I have a few in mind but want to try and think of the actions I will do to support them. Will be posting more later.

Keep it up my sweet friend.


A shot for you!


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Me: 44 H: 42
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S10 D7
10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month
21/04/12 H is 'DONE'
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Hi everyone,

just two thirds of a day into working on my goals and i wanted to share what has really helped me stay on track.

Oddly enough, it isn't the goal itself that is keeping me following what I set for myself to do - it's what I wrote in the" I will feel..." sentence that is making me do it.

The "allure" of feeling good if I did it, is very very attractive, and when I start to slide - especially on goal # 3 , the thought of feeling relaxed pulls me back to where i should be.

this morning had a real bad trigger and was shakey and teetering bad for about 2 mins, but the thought of feeling good made me literally stop and put it away entirely. I was amazed at the effect

so make sure you add those second and third parts in - to me they are beginning to look even more important than the stated goal

zig


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Originally Posted By: zig
Hi everyone,

just two thirds of a day into working on my goals and i wanted to share what has really helped me stay on track.

Oddly enough, it isn't the goal itself that is keeping me following what I set for myself to do - it's what I wrote in the" I will feel..." sentence that is making me do it.

The "allure" of feeling good if I did it, is very very attractive, and when I start to slide - especially on goal # 3 , the thought of feeling relaxed pulls me back to where i should be.

this morning had a real bad trigger and was shakey and teetering bad for about 2 mins, but the thought of feeling good made me literally stop and put it away entirely. I was amazed at the effect

so make sure you add those second and third parts in - to me they are beginning to look even more important than the stated goal

zig


Great lesson, thanks for sharing and for being the new goals guru smile

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Meant to post this yesterday - it was from Denver to me on my bootcamp thread and I wanted it here:

About goals

They need to be short term and attainable IMO. Begin small. A wise man once told me... "how do you eat an elephant? one bite at a time" ... LOL... funny the things that stay with us.


There's quite a visual for all of us:

sitting on a blanket, Turtles slowly moving around , each of us with an elephant in our laps, eating, one bite at a time

bring up that pic when you're struggling and see if it doesn't make you just start giggling right away grin

((((to everyone))))

zig


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For the next two weeks:

1. I will value myself by taking bette care of myself physically. Signup fee for triathlon goes up at end of month. The next two weeks will help me decide if my back will hold out enough to compete this year.

Action: run 3x weekly (3 miles each), swim 3x weekly (20 laps each), bike 1-2x weekly (11 miles 1x weekly, 30+ miles 1x weekly). Eat healthier (no junk.)

I will feel a sense of accomplishment that I gave it my all before making the decision for the tri. I will know that I am being a good friend to myself.

2. I will meditate daily.

Action: complete 10 - 15 minute guided meditation each morning.

I will feel more calm, centered and able to manage my life.

3. I will go on an overnight trip by myself.

Action: make reservation for overnight stay at lodge known for, and in location known for, meditation and spirituality. I will bring Pema CD's and books. I will write and hike and enjoy art and nature.

I will feel more confident that I can enjoy my life no matter what. I will feel happy that I can travel on my own, like I used to, and have fun.

4. I will be the person I want to be in communications w/ W. (present, full of grace and letting go.)

Action: I will continue to do the forgiveness meditation. I will read a few pages of Pema daily. I will work on listening and validating more.

I will feel happy and confident that I am becoming the person I want to be. I will feel proud that I have handled my sitch with grace.


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Grace! wonderful job!

and my first thought - written with such grace smile

I will work on listening and validating more.

so, i had written that also. when i saw it on your list , i thought - hmm, that's too general, for both of us and I'm sure others will have it on their list too



so let's take the bull by the horns and get a discussion going, if possible, about the action of listening and validating better

Vets - what did you learn along the way. others what are you learning?

links and resources that others could read up on?

I've read some stuff on Al Turtle's site. i will say, that in the moment when it is time to listen, it's not always that easy to put in practice.

We "hear" so much through our own emotional lens that too often it distorts what the other person is really saying. What actions can we take to overcome that?


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For next 2 weeks:

1. I will work on my stress relief & physical fitness on regular basis again.

Action: I will run 5 miles 3x per week (short term-goal to get back into it)(used to run 25/week b4 termoil).

2. I will stop saying I Love You/Initiating contact/Worrying about what she is up to. (been good at this for about 5 days now; trying to perfect the Detach/LRT lessons).

Action: Following the advice of Starsky & others, I will only respond to txts/calls that have to relate to kids & have W initiate all contact.

3. I will continue to feel Happy with myself & restore the Confidence I once had on a regular basis.

Action: I will tell myself continually throughout each day that I am a Good Person & pursuade myself each time I start to think negagtive thoughts about my sitch.

Other than this I am really not sure on how to set short-term goals that are truly achieveable! Never have really been good at short-term goal setting, so all help will be greatly appreciated! Others have been helping me per my thread on how to truly detach, focus on myself/kids, 180's, & LRT.

Suppo


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GOALS:
1) I will do my lists of gratitude each day and night. I've slipped a bit and I want to keep that up!

ACTION: Each morning I will list 5 things that I love about my life. Concentrating on people/things I find difficult. Each night I will list 5 things that I am thankful for that happened that day or 5 ways in which I'm happy I lived my life today.

2)I SERIOUSLY want to lose that last 18 pounds!
Get back on track with my healthy eating. I have a wedding in a little over a weeks time. No alcohol or junk until then! I will run at least three times a week increasing my distance to 5 miles by the end of next week (don't laugh Grace and Suppo) and do 50 crunches each night. I used to have amazing abs...they're still...under there! LOL

3) When negative thoughts about H slip into my mind (mainly about how he is living his life and relationship choices he's making) I will be mindful and refocus on wishing him the best and accepting that can not make his choices or know what is best for him.
Stop my thinking in the bud and drop the rope sending love!

4) career - in the next two weeks I will hopefully have secured a promotion. if not I will have done my best in a presentation and will be happy for whatever the universe has in store for me if it isn't this particular role.
ACTION: complete written work to a standard that will get me a pitch in two weeks time. I have a draft and have asked someone in the field outside the company to look over it and give their thoughts.

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Brit,

You can do this! Losing 18lbs is not that hard if you focus, stay controlled about your eating/ETOH, and follow the advice you have been giving me! I was running an avid 25-30 miles per week & fell off the wagon when Hurricane "W" came through...LoL

Since refocusing my energy & thoughts toward kids & myself per your advice, Starsky, & a bunch of others, I was able to get my running Mojo to slowly come back. In last 2 weeks I am back to averaging 15-20 miles, with Planking (phenominal if you try it-W introduced me to it), Multiple other abs, Push-ups, & pull-ups!

My W was not a runner, and b4 this all went South, I motivated her into running a 5k couple times a week. I am a pretty decent trainer if I do say so myself smile My kids love when I coach them in baseball/softball, & tennis as well...Pretty good at this too...LoL

Seriously though Brit, if U want some one-to-one training tips etc. I would be more than happy to advise & could tailor a short-term training/nutrition plan that would yield some very decent results. I always tell those I have helped to set a conservative goal of ____. Most times they exceed that goal & feel great about it afterwards. 18lbs is hard generally speaking in a week's timeframe, but very easily attainable over a month or so.

P.S. I would never laugh at you Brit! Especially wouldn't laugh at someone who is trying to better themselves physically/mentally, as well as helping me out in the process!

Oops-It looks like I am getting my Self-Confidence, Mojo, & Overall Caring self back smile

Suppo


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Suppo that would be great! I signed up for a 10 mile in October!

Happy to report weighed in this morning only 14 to lose! I'd put on 5 living in a hotel for the past few weeks and I've already lost 4 just cooking for myself.

I have done my goals these past few days and I added in a few other exercises it felt great!

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Way to go Brit!! 10 miles...that is awesome!!!

I am on day three and have been following through on goals one and two..

no real opportunity to practice goal #3, except that instead of contacting W about condo matter (she is on vacation with extended family) i handled something on my own. she had asked me to call her about it so i just forwarded her an email on the matter and explained that i was trying not to bother her with it during her holiday.

as for learning how to validate and listen better w/ W, I think i will practice the skills more with friends so that it becomes more of a habit and i will be more aware w/ W. what do you think zig?


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I like this thread! Great job Zig!


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Hi suppo - glad to see you join us. sorry it took so long to get back to you.

So i read through your goals list and that's a great start. First things first - lets work a bit on what you wrote at the end

I am really not sure on how to set short-term goals that are truly achievable Never have really been good at short-term goal setting,

One thing that has really helped me to change within myself in the last few months is finding out what I believe about myself. When we believe we are a certain way, then we tend to just go with being like that, without really questioning why or making any effort to change.

So, I'd like you to think a bit about why you believe what you wrote. Is their any real proof that you aren't good at that - did you try before and not succeed? did you never try because you assumed you wouldn't achieve the goals?

What if you saw yourself as someone who could set goals, who was good at choosing goals that were short-term and achievable? what would happen then? would it suddenly be do-able, would you hesitate?

So would you be willing to work with changing your perspective of yourself , where you start to believe that this is something you can do? You would have to sit down and think about why you see yourself that way. and we can talk about it her if you need help with it.

Let's get your goals a tad bit more specific, and that way you will start to see how they become short-term and achievable. Right now they are a little bit too general, which probably contributes to your feelings about them.

For now, let's decide that short-term means one or two weeks - you choose.

for goal 1.
this is rather general - so i'd like to see you break it down into a very simple statement such as "I will exercise 3 x per week. then under action you can say exactly what you will do week 1 and week 2 (how many miles each day etc)
after that, i'd like you to add a sentence where it says how it will make you feel such as "I will feel less stressed, more physically active , proud of myself etc.

goal 2: here you've stated what actions you will take for your goal. could you rewrite it so it states what you are trying to achieve at the end and put those as the actions you will do to achieve that state? (in this case detachment)

then under the "I feel" sentence, I want you to really think and imagine how you would feel when you are detached and write those down. they are really important, because the potential of having those feelings if you achieve that state will be what drives you to keep taking the action


goal 3. this is a bit of a contradictory sentence, suppo. if you are already happy with yourself then you wouldn't have the need to restore confidence. so let's inspect this a little deeper and see what you may have been trying to say. if your goal is to become more confident then let's state it like that, simply . then under actions you would need to write what you are going to do to become more confident (eg. try new things you've never done before, take the kids to do something new that you wouldn't normally do, buy some new clothes, go to therapy, stuff like that)

and then under the "I feel.." part you could say that these things would make you feel more happy or whatever you imagine they will make you feel

as MWD says, the more specific we are with our goals, the clearer we can pursue them and the more achievable they become. so it could be that they haven't felt that for you because they have been too general, maybe?

I hope this helps and also wanted to add that's it's wonderful that you're helping brit with her training goals.

look forward to seeing how you rewrite your goals, and let me know if you feel differently in your approach to them after you do that

cheers
zig


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hey there Brit - great job rewriting those goals - do they seem more specific and clearer to you also? I hope so.

I would like to see you add the "I will feel..." or "what will I be doing when..." sentences on to each of them, if you have the time to think about that and add that in - it will help you to stay on track a bit more, especially with the one about h

goal 1 and 3 look like long-term goals that you will be doing consistently. but 2 and 4 are definitely short-term ones. 4 has a deadline that will take care of itself.

i'd like to see you breakdown goal 2 - so that it is way more specific . how many #'s in the next 2 weeks (don't forget, losing more than 2 or 3 #'s a week is a better way to keep it off grin ). if you keep looking at the end number then it's too general..

hey, this is kind of fun , scrutinizing other people's sentences. i'm actually learning a lot!! grin

hope this is helping all of you and i'm not being too anal here

when is someone going to come do the same for me?

zig


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thanks Denver - coming to join us? smile


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Originally Posted By: Brit45
Suppo that would be great! I signed up for a 10 mile in October!

Happy to report weighed in this morning only 14 to lose! I'd put on 5 living in a hotel for the past few weeks and I've already lost 4 just cooking for myself.

I have done my goals these past few days and I added in a few other exercises it felt great!


Outstanding in signing up for the 10 mile run! Most people generally don't back out of an event when they have paid money to attend it! So this is a 1st great step!

Truly awesome that you have already dropped 4lbs! Hotel living can definitely wear on your body, both physically & mentally! Did that for 6 years while I was a bonafide business traveler (couldn't stand it & gained 30lbs to boot).

Give me a breakdown of running frequency/days etc. and I can help define better how you would be able to ramp that up, without being discouraged or fatigued. Also give me a brief overview of how your nutrition is & we could edit that slightly for the increase in training & calorie needs. This will help aid in decreasing fatigue & will greatly improve recovery time as well!

Suppo


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Zig,

You are spot on about me needing to redefine goals! I will work on this & resubmit for your review, so that we can hone down to an achievable set of goals for me. In the past I have generally been able to achieve whatever I set my mind to. i just need to refocus & try to take my mind off of circumstances I am not in control of.

Suppo


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Yes, it's a constant struggle, even for me, suppo. the "getting your mind off stuff. when you're having a difficult time of it, just acknowledge that you're shaky and don't try to fight it, but KNOW that is will pass.

look forward to seeing what you come up with smile

hope you're having a lovely day
zig


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Suppo, zig's spot on (as usual) and everyone I've had the time to read has been through exactly that - the odd "wobble". Oh yes, me included wink

There's always oportunities to take your mind off "things". One is on its way now. Called the weekend! Why not plan on doing something fun that you wouldn't normally have time for during a working week?

I'm having a Rocky Horror Picture Show night at my home (actually the bar:-) follows two great rugby matchs. Argentina vs SA. Then a local punch up with the Sharks. Should be a good time for all. I may even get to do my video DJ bit as a desert wink

Oh and your all invited! smile

Keep at it and don't fret. It'll get easier.

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Oh zig. Haven't forgotten my deal with you.

Busy sharpening my pencil wink

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Originally Posted By: zig
thanks Denver - coming to join us? smile


I think that I will let all of you newcomers do the goal setting here! wink

I posted about my sitch, my goals, etc., for many months... I had to back off of writing about and posting my every thought, word, or move. I learned SO much about myself doing it, and I think a lot of what you learn just becomes a part of you.

Right now, I just want to help others where I can by talking about my experience and what I learned, and am continuing to learn, by sharing what I used to share here, with my W.

I'm going to continue to check in here though! I'm pulling for everyone to be successful with their goals, improving themselves, and, hopefully, reconciling their M's!


M 43
X 38
T 13
W moves out of home 11/2010
Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012
I request divorce 5/2012
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there's something called "over-sharpening the pencil" - ya know what i mean?

i'm tickled for you though on the horror show - that should get you some belly laughs which are sorely needed. enjoy enjoy, sweet friend - nice to hear you sounding just plain cheerful - that's what you're after for yourself right now.

thanks for the invite - I'm so there, you can sense me standing right next to you - i'll try to be as crazy as you grin

zig


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Ok.. I think I am ready to post some goals! Yippee!

1. Dinner once a month out with kids ( taken from you zig :-) )
2. To continue being the woman i want to be with H, my kids, my friend's, my family and myself. Therefore to be genuine, and to continue working through my fear, anger, and passive aggressiveness. How? Being honest with myself, thought stopping, slowing down my emotions and reactions to ensure I am in control and not reacting.
3. To continue looking at situations and people with compassion and not judgement or anger
4. To get to the gym at least three times a week for cardio exercise
5. To accept that H does not want me now and that I have to live my life as a single parent.
6. To be emotionally strong to be strong enough for my kids and the crisis they are facing as well.


TPS
Me: 44 H: 42
M14 T17
S10 D7
10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month
21/04/12 H is 'DONE'
04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010)
July '14 H ends affair
May '15 H moves back home
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First of all, Denver you're forgiven - and congrats! One question - did you fit your roller coaster with seat belts or was it a true white knuckle ride? wink

Zig - that nearly sounds rude! I'm going to fire the odd water pistol shot at an empty space at the bar - that'll make people wonder what the silly bugger is drinking!

I was seriously going to send an invite to W and "friend". That'll just have to make do with the pics on Facebook smile

And now some shut eye. Last day at work tomorrow. Then lots of throat gargling on Saturday to loosen the vocals whistle

Catch you very soon. Have a lovely wonderful Friday. Its going to be so sunny here. I'll send it your way. And don't work too hard!

Mac

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mac - good grief you have a filthy mind!! clean it out with soap and water - i was referring to you dawdling on your goals list. Yikes!!

and for god's sakes - DO NOT SEND THE WIFE AN INVITE -

A yes, i have to work hard - this is my break and i'm not going to slack off!!


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Originally Posted By: mac-ct
FOne question - did you fit your roller coaster with seat belts or was it a true white knuckle ride? wink



Oh man... it was white knuckle all the way. Good times, let me tell you.


M 43
X 38
T 13
W moves out of home 11/2010
Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012
I request divorce 5/2012
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Suppo, thanks for the support. I'll read through your thread this evening or tomorrow morning and comment more. Im all for having someone help me, and one of my goals through all of this is to give more than I take in life from here on so i'll be more than happy to help you be accountable as well.

I will say that im with you about the GAL, breathe, 180's and for sure multiple moments in prayer. I'd add to that smile....even when you dont feel much like it.


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blush zig

And no I won't. You're one heck of a woman and let not one person say otherwise or they'll answer to me.

((((Zig))))

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Here is something I did awhile back....

You may find something useful out of it.

GAL , GOALS


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unconditional love is awesome!
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I think this is great, chatter bug. thanks for bringing it to our notice.

I think it would work well along side this thread, which is more for helping people set goals.

maybe i'll go post there to bump it up

thanks

zig


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Hi everyone,

I did notice today that the trend was veering off towards "chatting"

Could we agree to take that to our own threads and only use this one for goal setting?

Also, about encouraging each other - should we put that on the personal threads too, and only stick to setting the goals and monitoring them here? I'm a bit concerned that when others come later to follow this, there will be so much extraneous stuff that it will be a hard read.

Really asking for opinions. If y'all feel that it's fine like this, I'm fine with it too

thanks
zig


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Hi zig, did you see my goals???

((( )))


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Me: 44 H: 42
M14 T17
S10 D7
10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month
21/04/12 H is 'DONE'
04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010)
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I did goal setting a while ago, but haven't detailed any progress on them in a while. With that being said...time for a redial or new ones!

I'm really not that good at goal setting, so I'm going to put down what I think should be my goals, and ask for some help in defining them more clearly.

1. I will exercise at least 3 times a week.
2. I will practice thought-stopping and focus only on the present, and not get caught up in the details of my sitch (stolen from Zig...she said it perfectly)
3. I will try to do one fun thing with H each week.
4. I will call/text SS once a week. (Actually been doing really good at this one)


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H:GONE

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busting, roro
sorry i haven't got back to you guys sooner, but s got back today and it's been crazy busy. i will try tonight after he goes to bed
zig


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zig.. this goal stuff really helps. i was in a funk late this afternoon and remembered that i needed to go swimming to have a shot at meeting my goals this week. so i got myself up and out, swam half a mile and ended up feeling much better. i felt empowered. thank you, zig.


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sorry busting - i actually didn't see your post until your reminder. i think they sometimes come up when i am writing a post and when i submit i don't notice that a new one was there before i posted.

i'm having problems in that i cannot seem to get the posts to me to come into my email as they used to - tried several times and cannot figure out what is wrong.

so let's go through your goals

that's quite a hefty list you have made for yourself, busting - which is great if you feel that you are ready to tackle all of them all at the same time

but here's what i would like to see for you:

I'd like you to split your goals up into 2 separate lists:

List 1: Goals for Busting
List 2: Goals for Busting in her relationships with others.

In the first list, you could be very specific with very short term goals - for this week and next week. In the second list you I'll allow you to be more general and we'll see those as long-term goals that you are working towards step by step, but even with those, i would like to see you break them down for every 2 weeks

I want the very short term goals for you for YOURSELF - so that you stay very encouraged through the whole process and the tangible results will be very easy to see. and those goals need to be small and achievable.

then, if you could go back through this thread and reread how i've asked the others to state each goal in an "I will.." form, then state the actions you will take to achieve them and then most important how it will make you feel when you are taking those actions, and do that for each of your goals.

it's actually a lot of fun and makes you feel really good when you sit there and imagine how you will feel when you do something good for yourself or for others

when you break it down like this and get really specific about what you will do and how you will feel - it really encourages you to stay focused with staying on track

you are doing really well with working towards how you want to be with others in your life, but i don't often read in your threads about what you are doing ONLY for yourself. you may be doing those things, but you are not recognizing how they are affecting you in a positive way, and i want that to become more prominent in your thoughts - "i am doing this only for me, to make me feel good and strong and confident " sort of thought

we are all cut of the same cloth - we think of giving to others before we give to ourselves. Your goals lists as it stands now, is more about giving to others first and i'd like to see it the other way around first.

today, i took a moment to sit with melody beattie's daily meditations book - it had sort of got tossed to the side this alst few weeks. i decided to open it at a random page and just read what i got.

the chapter was on nurturance - and very eye-opening. the basic message was:

we cannot get nurturing from others until we learn to nurture ourselves.

and it was a huge eye-opener for me. how much do i really truly nurture myself, nurture the good inside me, nurture my own strengths and self-confidence etc etc. it's really something to think about for us as we live through our sitches.

so as you revise your goals list - i want you to think - nurture busting - she really really is worth it smile

good luck - i think when you sit down again with this - there may be some happy surprises waiting for you that you did not expect smile

zig


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Hi roro - so happy to see you here smile

i think the problem that most of us have with goal setting is that we are so focused on the "final" goal (saving our marriages!!!! ) that it's very hard for us to break it down into anything less than that.

MWD's message is really clear on this - how can we get the big goal we are all working toward, if we cannot achieve all the little ones along the way? maybe if we think of ourselves as in training towards winning an olympic gold as our ultimate goal - we could see how that would be impossible to achieve if we didn't train and build our skills and stamina and everything else that we need, to be really prepared.

so if we could look at it like that - then making short-term goals could become very easy - we see the ultimate thing we want and then we step back a bit to see where we are really at, see what's lacking and put that on our list as what we would like to improve at. and we get very specific about exactly what that is, so we are very focused


so if a swimmers' arm muscles were weaker than they should be for swimming the backstroke, the coach would probably up their training in the upper body area.and would get very specific on exactly what exercises the swimmer had to do


we have to look for what we want to train better within ourselves, find the actions that would help us improve that area and then set a timeline within which we would like to see it happen.

but if the goals are too general or too big, it's difficult to keep tabs on where we really are with them and then it's not easy to see the progress.

so you have a good list to start with - but i'd like to see you get even more specific with each goal. for e.g.. what excercise, how long, etc, what fun thing, how will it make you feel, how will you go about achieving that

are there other personal goals for yourself that you could think of to add to your list? only your first goal is specifically for yourself. is there anything else you would like to achieve?

you do have your goals in the i will form , so will you consider adding the actions and the how i will feel part?

also how will you monitor your progress?


i hope this helps and I can't wait to see your revised list smile

hope you are doing great roro:)
zig


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Yippee!!

way to go girl - it is often so painfully hard to push ourselves to overcome the funk - i'm so proud of you!!! I'm beaming here

grin
zig


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Just to update halfway in my personal goal setting

doing great in the exercise in fact I tried on some dresses for the wedding next weekend and one I'd bought as a "goal" dress 2 years ago is the one I'm wearing all these crunches are paying off because it's a tight mini dress! And I feel great in it!

Eating healthy has been going well. Only fell down a few times but gotten more focused in packing healthy lunches and fruit for work. had an alcohol fail but we all knew I needed that!

I've submitted work for my possible promotion.

And i've slam dunked things with H. We've had great interaction these past few days. And I've been staying in a place of gratitude and love.

Going to continue to focus on my fitness. And hope to lose 2 pounds by end of the week!

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Brit!!

you are doing so wonderfully! I am so happy to hear your great energy. and the way you are just going for your goals - incredible!!

and the tight mini dress - sounds great!! what color? grin

Keep at it - it's keeping you focused on making yourself feel good, and that's the whole point.

I've just started listening to the KLA CD's. Got to the goals part while i was driving but got interrupted when i had to pick up s. Can't wait to get back to it though - will have to wait and see when I have time when s is not around. But will post some of the great stuff Michelle is talking about when I have a chance

off to fulfill one of my goals - spending quality time with s. we're going to play a game before bedtime - haven't done that in a while. so I am looking forward to it.:)

It's funny - the last couple of days, I keep looking around me and saying do something different. The routine of my life feels rather tedious and boring all of a sudden, and so the urge to make lots of little personal changes in how I go about my day, is suddenly becoming more pressing. That's good!!

Hope you're having a kick a$$ weekend

zig


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Zig I emailed you a pic it's bright royal blue.

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Hiya zig!

Stunning weekend. Entertaing to the max and informative to boot!

Had a major rethink following your suggestions and I think I've finally come up with goals which are actually in place at this moment in time. Which is why I 'recon I feel so damn good!

I will maintain a positive attitude which leads on to ……
I will be the person I want to be in communications (thanks ng!)
I will continue to GAL which also leads on to ……
I will focus on regaining and keeping friends by being my "old" self

The second is something I'm plowing through posts by starsky to come to grips with how to firmly but with compassion discuss what we're both going. Yes I know - I said both - and I'm sticking to that statement. I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over it so don't worry;)

I'll have to think about formulation the expected results after seeing them actually working this weekend! Through chance meetings. Chatting. Enjoying. The whole enchilada. Bizarre!

Off to sleepyville. And not having to get up for two whole weeks. Bliss smile

I'll do some more donkey work tomorrow.

Have a wonderfully blissful rest of Sunday.

(((Zig)))

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Oh one of the unexpected results is that now I've got my head from out of my %*+, I'm actually finding myself helping others instead of focusing on my stuff.

And that also feels sooooooo good wink

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I'll have to think about formulation the expected results after seeing them actually working this weekend!

what's this part all about????

you're meant to write down what actions you will take to achieve those goals and how YOU will feel when you are taking those actions.

goals 1 and 3 with the ...

not really sure what that means, mac - are they incomplete or are you referring to something?

that's a great starting point, so i do need you to do a little more donkey work on them - how about with your first cup of coffee this morning? ya know - get them out of the way wink

I will maintain a positive attitude which leads on to ……

what will you do to maintain the positive attitude, what will you do when you are challenged by circumstances? very specific. how will you feel when you do that

I will be the person I want to be in communications (thanks ng!)

what does that person DO when they are communicating, how does that person FEEL when they communicate in that way.

I will continue to GAL which also leads on to ……

how will you gal, how will you feel. leads on to what???

I will focus on regaining and keeping friends by being my "old" self

who is your old self. is that the old self your wife doesn't want to be with , or some new old self. not trying to hurt you, but what are you saying here really and what is your intention? why do you have to regain old friends? and what will you be doing when you do the above? and how will you be feeling when you do those actions?


so there's some work to help you with your goal 1. because once you get it into that format - you will definitely have a more PMA

great job, mac - and so glad to hear that when your head cleared a bit, you feel up to helping others- that's wonderful

zig


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Zig looks like I failed with my schoolwork. It's a bugger because I know in my head exactly what this is all about but it's all in one lump. My heads not good at all separating each individual goal (apart from the ones listed) and I'm even worse at listing what I expect to see. Sorry zig. Think this is going to take longer than I thought.

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I have a strong feeling that I can do the results bit as a paragraph but it'll be difficult to get 'em down to one line. My brain cells just are not working like that.

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dear dear mac - don't get discouraged - that wasn't my intention, and it's not a pass/fail sort of thing.

it's just about refining them and making them more specific so they are so much easier to follow.

could you approach it as something you can do rather than not be able to do?

just take one first, today and break it down - the one you see aas helping you the most for yourself. then we'll work slowly on the others.

i'll try to check in later - i have a crazy busy day today

encourage yourself, ok - you CAN do this. it's a bit like squeezing an empty tube of toothpaste at first, but you'll be surprised what comes out

(((( )))))
zig


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Okay, I'm going to toss in my empty tube of toothpaste...

First, the personal goals:

1. I've made an online commitment to stick with a workout program I started recently. 3 cardio and 3 strength training workouts/week. It's tough when I travel and may be tougher when P arrives, but I need to remember its importance. It definitely helps my PMA.

2. I will continue healthy eating. I've just recently done enough reading to scare myself off of white sugar and white flour. As above, it's tougher when I travel. And P, though also into healthy eating, has different ideas about the particulars. She would get peeved if she wanted to make something with white sugar, for example, and she'd ask if I would eat it and I'd say no. So, this may conflict with some R goals.

3. PMA. I will (continue to) pay attention to my feelings and address any issues that arise. The exercise helps. Meditation is another tool. I also recently started taking fish oil supplements to address a likely shortage of vitamin D and almost immediately the black cloud lifted. Hmmm. We need to take extra pains to be nutritionally fortified when we're under stress. And I will remind myself to play to my strengths.

The relationship goals:

1. To be open, warm, and positive. How?

a. Open is a big challenge for me, I think. I tend to just close down and shut off potential sources of pain. I have remained fairly open so far, but it takes conscious effort. What does it look like when I'm open? Part of the problem is that I don't entirely know. It's a big thing for P and I'm kind of clueless about it. I'm thinking that when I'm closed off I'm tense and short in conversations. I've been working on improving that with my housemate. So maybe being open is being calm and present and acting as if all is right with the world. Okay, I'll try that. I will be calm and present and act as if all is right with the world.

b. Warm. I will smile. I will give those in my presence the gift of a smile.

c. Positive. I will cultivate a positive attitude. When I have negative thoughts, rather than blurting them out, I will consciously unfurrow my brow and imagine a positive possibility. I will acknowledge that while a bad thing might happen, a good thing could happen, too. When P is being unreasonably positive, I will note my discomfort and let go of the desire to balance the perspective. I will just observe and think, "Isn't it interesting that she thinks that?"

2. Remain lovingly detached and avoid the detours. How?

a. I will remind myself that P gets to choose how she lives and love means wanting her to do what she thinks is best to take good care of herself. And it also means doing what I think is best to take care of myself.

b. In tough spots, first I will identify consciously when I get into uncomfortable places. Then I will take care of myself (breathe), soothe myself ("I'm sorry you feel that way"), center myself ("My self worth is about my opinion, not P's") without asking P to change something.

c. I will STFU and observe, utilizing my internal boundaries to take in and process what is true and to drop what isn't. I'll remember to just think, "Isn't that interesting that she thinks that?"

3. Leave the path clear for P to move closer. How?

a. The analogy is leaving food out for the feral cat, but I'm not sure what that looks like exactly. I will make sure that there is space for P in the bedroom, bathroom, kitchen. I will make a welcoming space for when her D visits.

b. Respond in a warm, but very low key way to any apparent positive movement from P.

c. Respond in a warm, but very low key way to anything else (lack of warmth, backpedaling, etc.)

Well, that would be a lot shorter if I took out all the thinking out loud parts! I think I've covered most of the predictable booby traps. Except for any kind of R related talks she might initiate... Oh well, another day.


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Stopping in to say 'Nice job!', zig. Even better than expected!


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wow stubborn - you have done a lot of thinking here, and it really shows in the "thinking out loud" parts as you put it. I'm so glad for you that you put it all down in writing, because it will make the next step much easier for you, I believe.

need to ask though, just to confirm, as i seem to have missed it in following your sitch. Is P going to stay at your house when she comes back into town? And her daughter also? and for how long? when is this going to happen - couple of weeks or further away?

I ask, because I want you to set your specific goals with that time frame in mind. I imagine it is going to be a challenging time for you, so whatever time we have between now and then, let's put it to the best use and get you really focused so that you are as well prepared emotionally as you can be.

In my mind, that means that we line out your goals so, so specifically, that while you follow them over the next couple of weeks, it will practically transform where you are at

so the first thing that stuck out for me, which was huge - and I really want you to sit and read it over and over, until you can leave it out -

Your first 2 personal goalsl have P mentioned in them - actually to a large extent, as in I want to do this but i don't know if P can handle it when she comes.

We need to work on that first. Personal goals are for you and you only - they are aimed at making you feel good about YOURSELF , not dependent on how they may affect anyone else.

When you aim at certain things to make yourself feel better, but you are already thinking about how you may have to adjust them to accommodate another person, you give your autonomous power away.

We need to focus on building that autonomous power for you - and it comes easily - with small shifts in our thinking. It may feel a bit scary at first, but the personal benefit to you and how powerful you will feel about yourself are so huge and self-sustaining, that the result will be that all those relationship goals will actually become much more achievable - because they will come more naturally and without much effort.

So let's take P out of the equation to start with - and that will take some work on your part - some emotional letting go. There will be some fear that arises, and you will be able to work through and see what is behind that fear also. I mention these things, because as you do the work, the painful part will be a lot easier to handle when you are aware that that is what is going on.


SO I want you to write - for yourself - what does it mean for stubborn to imagine stating and achieving those personal goals, without taking anyone else into consideration? How will she state them, how will she act when she is doing them. what will she do or say if they don't suit someone else. what will it take for stubborn to feel that it is completely okay not to want sugar in her food, even if someone else does? why does stubborn get bothered if P gets peeved if stubborn doesn't want it a certain way as P does?

when you show that you respect your body to take care of it, despite what anyone else may think - it's attractive - calm, non-defensive, self-assured "i don't need you to tell me what's good for me, I know that for myself" attitude

But you can't act like that until you feel like that - so let's work on that first okay?

So after all the digging that i'm getting you to do, let's rewrite those goals in a simple self-assured way. One sentence for each one - specific and to the point. I will...

then the next part is the action - very specific again - exactly how, when , frequency - as detailed as possible -even down tot he time, if that is what helps you stay focused

and then the most important one - I will feel... when i am doing these. so you have to imagine how you will feel.

let's start with those first 3 - give you 5 days to get them really established and then start to refine the relationship goals. I have a feeling that second list may change after your first week with the personal goals.

Sorry this is so long - hope i wasn't too long-winded. grin and i really hope it helps you

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mac- i'm going to be lenient with you here grin - as i really want to get you going on these!! what'll it take? 10 candy bars? a bottle of your fav??

no seriously - i will help you to write the brief sentences down, if you would like. the point isn't that it should get too painful the point is to get started.

i do remember how my thoughts would just lump up and be so difficult to disentangle especially when there was a lot going on//

will that work for you? let me know if you would like me to help you that way

hope you had a good day today

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thanks sg - everyone is working really hard and that's great. all the goals lists being posted are quite amazing in how much thought people are putting into it

hope you're well?
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So everyone - I was thinking - it's about a week since the thread was started and if you all want to pop in and report your progress, thoughts, observations, any problems or setbacks, it would be great to keep track.

some may want to do it at their 2 week point, but just thought i would remind

hope you're all feeling much better and more focused with a set of goals in hand.

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Wow, Zig. You're good. Soon, you'll have to start charging for your services. smile

First, the time frame. I expect P to arrive sometime after Labor Day weekend and before her D arrives on September 10th for 5 days. She hasn't said the exact date yet. D will be staying in the extra bedroom and unless something changes (and I'm always prepared that it might) P will be staying in my bed. She likes the cuddling, but at the outset of previous visits has always asked to make sure it won't be too difficult for me.

P previously said that she would stay "as long as necessary" to complete the roof project when I listed its completion as a prerequisite for me doing the winter gig with her. Given that I'm away for work every other week, that could easily be a couple months. I have no idea how long she'll really last, especially since she just bought a place of her own that comes with its own project list.

Now I'll go do more thinking about my internal difficulty with the concept of unassailable personal goals. Thanks a million, Zig.


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Originally Posted By: zig
So after all the digging that i'm getting you to do, let's rewrite those goals in a simple self-assured way. One sentence for each one - specific and to the point. I will...

then the next part is the action - very specific again - exactly how, when , frequency - as detailed as possible -even down tot he time, if that is what helps you stay focused

and then the most important one - I will feel... when i am doing these. so you have to imagine how you will feel.


I've been reviewing the other posts on this thread and doing a little "borrowing".

For the next two weeks:

1. I will value myself by improving my fitness.

Action: 3x 30 min biking or other cardio each week and 3x 30 min strength training.

I will feel energized, physically competent, and proud of my improvements.

2. I will value myself by continuing to prioritize healthy eating.

Action: I will make sure to have healthy food available whether I'm at home or on the road. I will think about options for how I want to handle occasional "cheating". How often feels right to me and under what circumstances?

I will feel relaxed, knowing that I'm nurturing good health. When my boundaries for diversions are clarified, I'll feel calm and in control.

3. I will nurture my PMA by paying attention to my feelings and addressing any issues that arise.

Action: I will stick to goals 1 and 2. I will remember to smile. I will review helpful mantras or meditate daily. I will sit with discomfort, remembering to comfort myself with helpful mantras.

I will feel centered, warm, open, and resilient.


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Stubborn - big leaps - so proud of you.

The whole mood and focus has changed for you, and I'm delighted to see that:)

I have a feeling that just writing it like that, has created a big shift within yourself and that is the most important thing.

So keep in touch - at least by posting on your thread as often as possible how you are feeling each day, so that you stay in touch constantly about where you are at and can rectify your course if the determined feeling or focus start to shift.

I have to read my goals list everyday to remind myself that that is what i am after - when i do't i just start to forget what they are. the specific-ness of them keeps me on track.

great great job - dear girl.

and just doing this will make you feel so prepared for the visit - and that's the most important thing

((((( )))))
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1) I will do my lists of gratitude each day and night. I've slipped a bit and I want to keep that up!
I've been doing this more often but still not every single day.


2)I SERIOUSLY want to lose that last 18 pounds!
The travelling weight dropped off really quick and I'm happy to report I only have 11 pounds to lose now!

3) When negative thoughts about H slip into my mind (mainly about how he is living his life and relationship choices he's making) I will be mindful and refocus on wishing him the best and accepting that can not make his choices or know what is best for him.
Stop my thinking in the bud and drop the rope sending love!

In receiving possibly the craziest/hardest news I dropped the rope more fully that I ever thought I would. This past week has been pretty great. I rarely think about H and we had a really great friendship/coparenting affirmation on Monday.

4) career - everything is going along really well. I secured a presentation this week will know by Friday if I've gotten a promotion at work

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Hi Brit - sorry it took me so long to answer your post.

have been reneging a bit on my goals duties here. this has been catch up week for me,,,

You do sound great and as if you are doing really well keeping on top of your intentions.

Do you feel as if some of your goals are getting more established where you don't have to be on top of them as much as before - that they are becoming a way of life rather than something you have to actively pursue all the time?\

When you do start to feel that in any of those areas - then it's time to set some more i think

How did the job application pan out? do you know yet?

glad to hear you sounding so "up" - it's wonderful

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Hi everyone - our goals thread is starting to "slow down" a tad bit here.

what do you all think? is it time to check in and talk about where you are at , and if it's good enough for you, or you need something more.. encouragement, fin-tuning etc

I'm here so let's not lose the energy smile

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Hiya -

I'm going to join you, if you don't mind. I flounder around a bit with the goals- read the books, write down a bunch of notes- lose it all allover the plce-

i'm going to think on it all and concoct my goals and then come here and commit.

first goal- figure out some goals & get them "said" here before witnesses and then monitor.

thanks for support & encouragement

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I'm in the same boat as Nero, many thought of goals, yet none written done concretely to monitor.
First goal, to post up goals today. smile

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Guessing I'll start off simple and small.
1. GAL. Redevelop and find new interests.
Action: Looking at available cooking classes in my area. Connect with friends several times per week, and not focus on me life / situation. This will ideally also help with PMA.
2. DETACH.
Action: I will be able to be friends with her, listen and validate her feelings as best as I can without backsliding and becoming a caretaker.
3. Become a person that my W will want to be with (borrowed from Calystra).
Action: Stop snooping / controlling behaviors. Become a person who can once again live, laugh, and then love.

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nero and afa - so so sorry i haven't been around to respond - was on a trip. but i am back and will respond to your posts by the end of the day, i promise.

am glad to see you both wanting to get started - and i hope that my late response hasn't discouraged you

later

zig


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Not discouraged, and still here. smile

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Hi afa

So glad that you were able to write down something concrete here - you have made a great start - and propelled yourself over the hardest hurdle - which as we all know, is actually getting started grin the rest will be downhill from here i promise!!

so afa, my job here is to help you take the step form general to specific.

when goals are too general, they are really hard to pursue, which maybe the problem you are having here, as you mentioned in the previous post.

I'm going to give you some homework grin, because i love giving homework!!

1. read through this whole thread from the beginning,
2. really read and understand the example of how to write the goals that's in the posts on the first page.
3. our first goal for you is going to be to set very small very specific goals

so i want you to separate out and choose 3 GAL activities - the ones you think you will enjoy the most - and write them exactly as what your goal is e.g.. i will attend cooking classes
then the action - and then most important how you will feel when you are doing them

for your second goal - "detach" is way to general - it doesn't give you a starting point, because detachment is a process that comes though doing other things like GAL'ing, working on yourself, focusing on other things

so lets break that down - do you find yourself obsessively thinking about your sitch? if so, let's start with tools to help you with that. if you are pretty calm about it let's find out what you can do to get calmer and more centered.

so think about that and get back to me on what you can break down there

MWD stresses that the more specific your goals, the more chance of succeeding with them and then moving to the next set of goals so you see wome progress for yourself

# 3 - let's change the focus of that goal to begin with, shall we? how do YOU want to see yourself? think about the person YOU want to be and become that person. what steps will you take towards becoming that person? and again, how will you feel when you are becoming that person more and more each day?

so that's alot of homework for you - i hope this helps

looking forward to see what you will do with this. i will try to go over and catch up on your sitch

meanwhile, remember that the most important thing to take care of is yourself, not your W or your marriage right now. first things first, ok?

hope you had a good day
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Time to look at my goals and see where I'm at with them. I can't say I have been successful with all of them, but there have been rewards I didn't expect, from the ones I did really focus on



1. I will commit to setting new goals every 2 weeks and monitoring my progress.

so - i didn't keep a journal - plumb forgot, but i did remember to come read my goals everyday or two and stay focused on them

2. I will do at least 20 mins of yoga and then my meditation every morning before starting my day

I managed to do the yoga for the first couple of days, but then didn't wake up early enough. I did do the meditation, and have upped it seriously in the last week - to 3 or 4 sessions of 15-30 mins.
the yoga is a bit of a struggle for me mentally right now and has been for the last 2 months. am working my way through what is holding me back on that


3. I will practice thought-stopping and focus only on the present, and not get caught up in the details of my sitch

I have really worked on this, and even though i've dipped seriously, there's been a new awareness that has allowed me to get to a good place much sooner. things shifted for me here during this last week, and i can actually take a breathe and think what to do next before i spin out, and what works for me is to go straight to meditation. so i am really pleased with the progress i've made with this

4. I will give s more quality time when we are together and nurture our relationship to a new level

I feel as if i made huge inroads with this and a lot of progress, and i am pleased that i committed myself to s in a new way. I also see s responding very positively -- and he is spending more time out of his br than before. we also went on a trip last week and we did a lot of fun stuff together which was wonderful for both of us


5. I will continue to see H from a loving place within myself, no matter what the details of our sitch are.

I struggled with this a bit over the weekend - but have been able to keep h in a loving place in my mind. I have shifted in that i am not trying to DB per se any longer, and am beginning to turn away, but not from anger, just because that's where i am.

So all in all, even though i didn't achieve all my goals, I feel like I made a lot of progress in these last three weeks

I intend to write a new set in the next few days.

zig


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So I basically wrote these goals, and didn't come back and say anything else. SMH Zig, I did read your comments. I haven't had time to write back to you until now. So here's how I did on my original goals.

1. I will exercise at least 3 times a week.
I did okay with this, but not great. I'm participating in a 30 day workout challenge this month, so that has helped me acheive this so far in September.
2. I will practice thought-stopping and focus only on the present, and not get caught up in the details of my sitch (stolen from Zig...she said it perfectly)
I have been trying to do this. It has worked for the most part. I have found myself thinking more about my sitch than in recent months, so I've had to do some real practice not to get spun up on how things are going.
3. I will try to do one fun thing with H each week.
So far we haven't made it to the movies once as we planned. We have watched a few new shows together and watched football, so I guess that counts. I really was hoping for more outside activities, so that's an update for my next set of goals.
4. I will call/text SS once a week. (Actually been doing really good at this one)
My SS' phone has been broken for the past couple of weeks, and he just reactivated his FB account yesterday, so I haven't talked to him at all. H has, but I'm never at home when he calls. He should have a new phone by Saturday though, so this will carry over to my new list of goals.


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I'm going to have to work on my new goals on paper and then post them here. I am reading zig's questions to me and I honestly don't have answers. It's crazy that I can't come up with another goal that is just about me?! I've been focusing on other people and neglecting myself for far TOO long!


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I read your post RoRo and glad you came back - that shows growth and determination on your part even if you don't feel it strongly yourself.

It's hard for us to push ourselves so much - but we come through better off for it.

will respond more later, but for now i am going to quote Brit:

"If I am focusing on spouse, and spouse is focusing on themselves, who's going to focus on me?"

When we truly accept that we have to help ourselves, then we have to turn the focus on ourselves.

For the rest of the day , just quietly repeat that to yourself - and don't pressure yourself about what you feel you must do to improve right away. Let that thought sink in, and I bet that suddenly you will have all kinds of wonderful ideas about what you could do to focus on yourself smile

Do you think you are important enough to turn your attention to yourself, even for 5 mins? Or is everyone else more important?

You're doing great, RoRo. Awareness is the first step -

I've been focusing on other people and neglecting myself for far TOO long!

and that ^^^ is awareness. Change comes after that without even much effort smile

talk to you later

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There are a lot of people struggling to specify goals, and I know what that feels like - it's hard to be specific when our emotions are in so much upheaval.

I don't know if it's okay to do this, but I just found a site that has some phenomenal tools for goal setting. It's aimed at women who are trying to save their marriages - and it is very much focused on solution -oriented thinking and how to go about that. there is also a very clear explanation on how to differentiate between problem oriented thinking and solution oriented thinking which really helped me tremendously

So if it's okay - here's the name: 1lovespiritdotcom There is so much DB similarity there, that I feel it's okay to post this here because it completely supports and enhances MWD's own strategies, focuses alot on getting the LBS to a very strong place, shows them how to outline their goals and make them solution oriented, gives tools and solutions on how to view our situation from an emotionally calm perspective and best of all - to help us to move from fear and blame to a place of love.

It is based on law of attraction - so just letting you know that in advance

I've only read through the first section, including the links on that page and there is so much there - I want to sit and do all the goal setting exercises myself - hopefully this weekend

mods, i sincerely hope that this is okay to put here. if not, please delete this post

thanks
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just wanted to add:

i got to that site through a google search which took me straight to one of the pages. after i posted, i thought i better check if the link worked and started laughing - it really looks like one of those gazillion save your marriage scam sites.

but before you dismiss it completely based on the look, delve in and you may be surprised smile

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Okay Zig. The current homework has been completed. It has been helpful thus far and will definitely look forward to feedback.

1. GAL --a)I will communicate (text, call, etc.) with friends / family at least 3 times a week, regarding life in general, not specifically my sich.
b) I will continue to research and sign up for a cooking class at least one per month (I had some luck yesterday finding some, but all the spots were taken for this weekend). I will feel proud of myself for doing something for myself outside of my comfort zone.
c) I will continue to exercise 5 / 6 times per week, alternating days between lifting weights and a DVD workout. Throwing in bike riding / jogging here and there. I will feel more physically fit and attractive. More confident.
c2) Have to add this one to c) I will reduce the amount of cigarettes I smoke daily. Initially about 30 per day. Down to 20. I hope to reduce by at least 5 per week. I will physcially be able to breath better, smell better, and have more time doing more important things (eg with kids instead away from them with a smoke).

2. I will stop negative thoughts regarding my marital situation and worrying about her. ACTION: I will say the Serenity Prayer, and focus on myself. I will try to the STOP sign, and focus energy on how I can improve myself. I will remind myself that the woman I'm living with is not the woman I married, that her choices and actions are some sort of monster, not her. I will try to add some guided imagery to help (eg happy thoughts). I will then feel much more at ease and peaceful. More calm about what life will bring.
3. I will visualize myself as being a confident, positive, carefree person that enjoys life and deserves to be respected by others, that others want to be around, yet okay if alone. I will permit myself to make mistakes, try new things, remind self that nothing can be perfect. 1 and 2 tie into this. I will feel happier and more alive, less insecure about being me.

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afa - sorry it took so long to get back to you

I think you did a great job with rewriting your goals!

You've had them for a couple of days now - your list. What do you think?

Are they doable - in the form that you have put them? How have the first days gone with achieving them? Are you feeling successful, or are they still difficult to follow?

I will ask at this point: all your goals are pretty long-term ones - that cover a long period. If there were any recomendations i would make it would probably be that you could reframe them so that they state clearly what you will achieve in the next week or two weeks. in that way, you will very clearly feel the sense of achievement.

otoh - if you are feeling successful already with the way they are now, then keep at it in that way

great job, afa - look forward to hearing how it is going for you in terms of achieving your goals

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Thanks Zig.
I'm doing well with #1. Working on #3.
#2 is probably the hardest right now, especially because of recent actions by the W (i updated my sich). My biggest dilemma I think ties into self reliance. The thin line between proper DBing vs being a doormat. How much / what kind of stuff to tolerate.

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afa - good to hear you are doing well - for the most part.

as for DB'ing vs. being a doormat

well if you take the doormat out of the equation what will you have then?

I can only say what I know from where I'm at , now, but every time - every single time I have struggled - it's been about my ego standing in the way.

Look at it this way: what if your wife never ever ever changes? Will you go on reacting as you are doing now, or will you eventually throw your hands in the air and say oh forget it this is not worth my energy or time?

What we don't see in the first months is that we are doing all this DB'ing because we are expecting a positive outcome from it - that's why it's worth all the enormous effort. then we start getting told to let go of the outcome and suddenly we are groundless again.

There will always be actions from others - what are WE going to do about it?

If you sit and think about this, there are very few answers that will feel right for yourself and for your peace of mind - and I think you will know how to go about reaching your 2nd goal smile

come post here if you want to talk about it more

take care of yourself first and you won't feel like a doormat

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


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Hi Zig,
I need help with my goals, if you would. Please see below and let me know your thoughts? Thank you!!

1) respond instead of react
2) thought-stopping - focus on only the present
3) Concentrate on me - I need to become more confident, funny, relaxed, non-judgemental, warm.
4) spend better time with my Son.


M:43/ H:39
T:12/ M:9
S8, D15
M affair(one night): 2/09
M EA: 2/12-7/12
D:6/7/12
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Hi Mrs D - so nice that you came over smile

Kudos to you for taking the step - it's really a hard one for us at first

I'm going to rephrase the 4 things you wrote as questions, and I want you to really think and imagine what your answer will be and write that down.

That answer will help us to do a couple of things here - get really specific and provide you with the ACTION you need to perform to achieve the goal

Also Please read the first page of this thread if you haven't yet so that you understand more how to formulate and state the goals


1. What will I be DOING when I respond instead of react. How will I be feeling when I Do that?

2. What will I be DOING when I thought stop - How will I stop the thought, and how will I feel if I stop the thought

3. What action/actions will I be doing when I concentrate on me? How will I feel when I do that (that's when you'll feel confident, relaxed etc. so think carefully here of the actions you will do to get those feeling results)

4.what will I be doing when i spend better times with my son? how will doing that make me feel?

when our goals are just vague and general and 'in the vicinity of where we think we want to go - then it's like throwing a ball in the general direction of the basket. when we get really specific - it's like aiming for the shot!

also, think about a timeline - break it down to such small goals, that you can see yourself achieving them in the next 2 weeks?

Have fun with this - that's when it will be the most successful

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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Thanks Zig.
I copy / pasted my goals so I can have them on the go for reminders to do ACTION.

Can you speak a little more about the ego statement, elaborate more that is.

Also, if W "never ever ever changed" I would ultimately have to stop, as I would not want to live the rest of my life like this.

I presume "WE" need to loving detach from those who "WE" are emotionally enmeshed with so that I can choose to RESPOND, not react.

I'm pretty good identifying and verbalizing problems / solutions, yet have difficulty with the follow through on the ACTION aspect. Perhaps the low self worth? I've been telling myself of positives throughout this day to boost my confidence some.

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Zig, Thank you in advance for your time and efforts. I spent the morning reading all 9 pages of this post. For myself being a Guy who is nuts and bolts oriented and who jumps into everything quickly to fix the problem, its hard for myself to figure out my list. So please do not hold anything back on your advise to fix my list. My W is still in the house but emotionally seperated WAW situation.

1- GAL
Exercise 5,6 days a week. I will feel and look better doing physical activity.
Do things with Male friends. I will gain friendships and improve my PMA.
2- Detachement
Work on doing things for myself and not worring what W is doing.
Quit snooping
I will control thoughts and not allow the emotions to over take me.
3- Improve communication
Ask W how her day was when I get home everyday. If she wants to talk then show her that I am interested and try to be upbeat. Share with her how my days has gone. I will show her my interest and concerns about her as allow her to do the same.
4- Try to spend time with W.
Try to arrange fun activities for the family to do together. This will show her that staying with family is the right choice.
Arrange dates with other couples to have fun. Not by applying pressure of dating with W.

Are these to large or Vague? Someone quoted running a marathon not a sprint. I think these are to long term. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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Thank you Zig!! I will add alittle more to this soon. Really busy putting in OT today with work. I do appreciate you so much.


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S8, D15
M affair(one night): 2/09
M EA: 2/12-7/12
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Ok Zig - thanks for your patience with me. Here goes:

1. What will I be DOING when I respond instead of react. How will I be feeling when I Do that?

Listening and watching. I will be listening or watching to what is being said or done, then make a concious effort to respond instead of reacting because there is really no thinking involved. The feeling I SHOULD be able to receive is that the conversation or action would be going better - so I should feel good.

2. What will I be DOING when I thought stop - How will I stop the thought, and how will I feel if I stop the thought?

This one is alittle hard for me because I think about X and GF all the time. To be honest, I have tried different methods, and I cant stop. Could you help with this one maybe?

3. What action/actions will I be doing when I concentrate on me? How will I feel when I do that (that's when you'll feel confident, relaxed etc. so think carefully here of the actions you will do to get those feeling results).

I will continue to walk/run with my GF atleast twice a week. We are also going to start crossfit training together oworking up to 5 days a week. I will continue to read self help books to help me relax, and make myself a better person.

4.what will I be doing when i spend better times with my son? how will doing that make me feel? I will not be on the conputer working, or on DB while he is awake. Once he goes to bed, I will continue to work, or be here on DB. That will make both of us feel that Im 100% into what he is doing.


M:43/ H:39
T:12/ M:9
S8, D15
M affair(one night): 2/09
M EA: 2/12-7/12
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Hi d-man - i am so sorry ,for taking so long to reply to you. I hope meanwhile that you have started working towards achieving your goals

I was listening to the KLA tapes earlier this week and MWD says that goals should be stated as action oriented - and using action words. and they should be small and easily achievable.

it's great that you took the time to read through all the pages - i hope they helped you, and i think they did because you have stated your goals pretty clearly. lets clean them up a bit shall we? i'd like to see them way more specific and broken down into smaller steps. (you strike me as the sort of person who will do really well with that and be able to take leaps and bounds smile )

the idea is to get to the end of the first week and look at your very specific list and say - wow i can say yes to every one of these and then grin very very happily grin

1. what exercise ?- if it's running, how many miles etc. don't be shy - this is only for you . how much will you add on or improve in 2 weeks? and come here and tell us
"do things with male friends - too general - can you write down who you are going to call and meet and what you will do with them? make specific plans. this is important, because this one slides very easily. are there some gal that you can do on your own? go to the library, meet up groups? activities that you can do on your own - even if it's a walk around the block. lonliness can get very difficult to deal with in our sitches, so the sooner you go out and do it on your own and find out that you can enjoy it, the better. if you're not ready for that, don't worry about it now.

2. this one is too general and not achievable as a specific goal within a short period of time. this is a process that develops in stages and one that is really hard to monitor. lets reframe it using actions which will help you in the detachment process.

so write down what You will be doing when you

a) thought stop - there's a grab thread w/ suggestions over on the stay solution focused board
b)quit snooping - what will you do to stop the urge
c) stop worrying - look for specific actions that you can go to when you are under pressure

3)this looks good from the specific point of view - but i'd like you to monitor it everyday for yourself - write down what worked so if things don't go well, then you can see what you need to adjust

4 ) what will you be doing when you spend time with her - make a plan, stick to it! of course check with her if she's good with the plan smile


for all of them - add on : How will i be feeling when i do this. add as many feeling words as you can and when you hesitate to do them, say to yourself - i will feel like this if i push myself a little to do it. it really helps

so lets start there, and if you could spend some time rewriting these - and for now - really only see them as what you will work towards for a very specific period, like 1 or 2 weeks

good luck and keep encouraging yourself to take baby steps, you are just where you need to be right now

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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Hi Mrs D - what a great job rewriting - did it help you to stay more focused? I hope so smile

Thought stopping is hard - we all know and it takes a lot of vigilant conscious effort, so I really understand what you are going through. unfortunately when we keep doing that we sort of rewire our brains to go there all the time without realizing it, so we have to work hard at rewiring again

so be patient and gentle with yourself. there's a difference between thought-stopping when we are obsessive and thinking about our ditches in a thoughtful reflective way.

i just noticed an old thread on the staying solution focused forum called thought stopping - i just read a bit - and there are a lot of suggestions there.

Mrs. D - try to go to feelings that you have about them rather than just thinking about them being together - go to the feeling you get and recognise it and acknowledge that you feel that, and then focus on forgiving and letting it go. it will take time and so we have to be patient with ourselves.

also - learn to catch yourself doing it as soon as you can - and force yourself to adopt another behavior e.g..: do the opposite of what you are doing - if youa re standing, sit down, if you are in, go out etc. or a light slap on your face, will redirect your brain. ice on the wrists - any new movement or gesture which will redirect your brain and as it redirects, you get that little space which you can then use to go find something else to do

it will get easier over time as you work on yourself and resolve your own issues and get stronger emotionally

good luck and don't forget to come monitor your results, please - so it encourages you and the others here to do so

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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Zig,

I hope you don't mind if I come join this thread... I can see that you are already helping a lot of people, but I need to re-focus my energies since I am starting a new and challenging phase in my sitch.

I have a preliminary list of goals, but will refine tonight (I had too much coffee today) and will post them here tomorrow.

Thank you in advance for all your help! smile


Me & H: 44
D7, D6, S3
Together: 20y, M: 17y
EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10
EA becomes PA: Spring 2011
H filed for D: 09/06/12
D Negotiating began 2/15
OW seemingly gone on 3/15
Still negotiating D






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there can never be too many on this thread - welcome smile the more the better, and the better for you - which is the most important.

i'm sorry to hear that there are new challenges, kg - and kudos to you for recognizing that the BEST thing to do is to refocus with some goals.

so yes - come pile them on here and we'll get started.

take care of yourself - and don't forget -when you are already edgy, too much caffeine will just make it worse, right ?

see you soon
zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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Thanks Zig,
This was a start to create a plan. Some of these goals are not possible with my Sitch. Hopefully I can bring these goals back into the future. So lets get started breaking these down.

1- Is my favorite right now. Exercising is providing the only enjoyment in my life. So staying on course with this will be easy. I am running 3 miles 3 days a week. I really do not need to add anymore miles. Just keep doing it. I am lifting weights on the other 3 days. This is where I can grow. I do need to get more weight to add to what I already have. This will be a 2 week goal to buy more weights to my program.
2- Is GAL- This is one that needs some attention. This is one of the W complaints. So I definetly need to 180 this. Schedule is very tight right now with little extra time. 2 kids in differnt sports right now. I did go to a football game on Friday night with a friend. So that is a start. I also went to Church yesterday which I have not been to for awile. The next 2 weeks will be tough to do anything new. But will look for opportunities and use this time to schedule something fun to do.
3- Detachement- Still fighing with this one. Need to gain some knowledge on this matter to have a plan. So this will be my goal for this week to gain some ideas and present you a plan.
4- Improve Communication- I will ask everyday when I see her when she or I gets home " How has your day been" I will work on being postive and not negative about work or busy schedule. I will also listen and not offer controlling comments to her about what she did that day. She was gone this weekend until late last night. I stayed up to visit when she arrived. We talked about each other weekend activites. This did seem to work well, she seemed like she wanted to listen and tell me about her weekend. This did make me feel better because we do need to communicate better. Even if it feels like I am talking to a co-worker not my W. This is hard to deal with but this ties into the detachement. I figure talking to my W like a co-worker is better than not at all. I need to continue this and see if it improves.
5- This is the one that may not be possible right now. This would be going against the 180 rules and also putting pressure on her. I am also afraid to ask her right now if she would even consider doing anything. I will have to ease into this one slowly and watch for her signal to advance in this area.
DM

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Hi Zig,

I'm here following the advice of Bond, telling me to write relationship goals

Originally Posted By: MrBond
"I have been reluctant to set goals which include some sort of feed back or reaction from my wife."

This is what DBing is all about. You have to set goals.

"I have seen some of these written by others but i feel that my wife is too unpredictable for me to make proper assessment of what is working and not working."

That's why it's all trial and error. Not everything you do is going to work, but you never know until you try. This is just your fear talking. Do you honestly think that everyone who made goals had a "predictable" spouse?


I've been through this entire thread but it seems to me that all the goals here are personal goals. I've re-read DR Chapter 3 on Goal setting as well as the "Think Goals!!" thread and this is what I came up with, but I'm not quite sure how to refine them, or how to achieve them.

1. I'd like my W to occasionally contact me just to chat or ask how I am (I never initiate contact and whenever she does, it's always about D8 or some sort of logistical issue)

a)I'll achieve this by making sure she is comfortable and relaxed when ever she's around me.

b)I'll know this is happening because she might start by being more personal in her D8/logistics correspondence.

2.I'd like my W to open up and talk about her feelings.

a)I'll achieve this by listening and validating wheneve she does open up about anything. Goal 3 will also help her relax more in my company and perhaps help her open up.

b)I'll know this is happening because she might just start by talking a bit more about her life at the moment, work, friends, family.

3.I'd like my W to feel more comfortable when we're together.


a)I'll achieve this by being consistently upbeat and cheerful when she's around and by refraining from judging her, criticizing her and making her feel guilty. I'll also need to appear detached as to not seem pursuing/pressuring.

b)I'll know this is happening because she might laugh more and not be so tense and cold when she's around.

4.I'd like my W to start working on herself
(IC, meditation, yoga, anything really)

a)I'll achieve this by showing consistent improvement in my behaviour and by occasionally sharing information about my meditation classes.

b)I'll know this is happening because she might ask me even more about my meditation classes and I think she would be more relaxed and less angry.

Thanks for your help Zig


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M-49
W-42
1D-10
T 10 YEARS
M 9 YEARS
EA/MLC 07/2010
Separation 28/05/2012
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Hi Zig,

As promised, here is my list of goals for the next two weeks. I look forward to hearing your imput!

1) Increase my PMA
HOW?
- Smile constantly with everyone, all the time
- Use stop-sign technique to stop negative thinking
- Read inspirational quotes daily
I WILL FEEL better about myself, more upbeat, more positive and find more good things about my life, my efforts to become a better person and my progress.


2) Focus on improving one lacking area in my communication skills - my tone of voice
HOW?
- Use a lower, softer and calm tone when asking kids to do something
- Use a slower, softer tone when speaking to others
- Pause before responding
- Not interrupting
I WILL FEEL calmer, less anxious and even when something affects me, I will feel in control of my responses.
I will also notice a different response or reaction from others towards me and my R with others will improve. They will notice a calmer, softer side of me.


3) Be consistent about exercising
HOW?
- Start with 3x week - on days I don't have kids doing any of the following: jogging, swimming, tennis, road bicycling or yoga at home
- Other days, at least go for a 30 min. walk with S1 during school hrs. (3x week)
I WILL FEEL less stressed out, sleep more profoundly, have a more PMA and will be able to react and act with more patience. I will look better.


4) Work towards getting 7 hrs. of sleep every night
HOW?
- Start by getting 5hrs every night, by going to bed by 1am every night for the next two weeks
I WILL FEEL rested, be in a better mood, think with more clarity and have more energy throughout the day and will be able to find more patience within myself.

5) Improve my eating habits
HOW?
- Do not skip meals
- No caffeine after 5pm
I WILL FEEL like I have more energy, will lose the few lbs I have gained lately, and will be less jittery and will not lose sleep at night. I will feel better about myself and look better.

6) I will continue working on my spiritual growth and emotional well-being.
HOW?
- Read 1 hr. every night
- Journal every day - even if just for 10 mins.
- Continue going to church on Sundays
- Do gratitude lists when I wake up and before sleeping
- Go to meetings once a week
I WILL FEEL more content with myself, will find more patience and empathy and compassion for my efforts and my progress. I will also feel more love towards myself, as I am taking care of myself. My self-esteem will improve and I will be a happier, healthier person.

7) Be more consistent with my personal GAL or social activities outside of my daily routine.
HOW?
- Call and see girlfriends at least 1 day a week - listen more
- Socialize with parents once a week & foster their R with kids
- Update FB and check in with friends
- Get out of the house when I don't have kids - even if going for coffee, walk, go to the beach, bookstore, etc.
I WILL FEEL more positive, will have more fun, will feel more loved and cared for by my friends and family. My R with them will become stronger little by little.

8) Continue improving my R with my kids and being a better mom for them.
HOW?
- Be more present, share and play with them - focus only on them
- Work on correcting them less, and focusing less on manners and more in having fun
- Continue laughing, singing and dancing with kids daily
- Continue showing physical and verbal affection thru out the day; cuddling with each every evening and during bedtime.
I WILL FEEL like I am a better mom for my struggling kids. I will feel more connected to them and more satisfied with my efforts. They will be happier, more confident and feel safer.

9) Implement consistent baby-steps to establish a new R with H.
HOW?
During our in-person interactions, focus and act only on:
- Smile
- Listen
- Validate
- Praise
In written interactions:
- Continue to not initiate, unless necessary kids' loginstics, respond in a friendly way and not right away when not needed
I WILL FEEL more at peace, will continue improving my detachment, will begin to create space for goodwill and good feelings to emerge between the two of us. He will act less defensive around me.

Thanks again, Zig! You are so generous with your time and help to others here.

(((ZIG)))


Me & H: 44
D7, D6, S3
Together: 20y, M: 17y
EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10
EA becomes PA: Spring 2011
H filed for D: 09/06/12
D Negotiating began 2/15
OW seemingly gone on 3/15
Still negotiating D






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I am hoping some regular readers from this post can help me critique my goals? I am looking for any type of feedback at all and am happy to answer any questions.


Personal, family (focused on my children) and professional/career goals

Personal

Goal: Continue every-other-day exercise routine.

Action: Run each time while working on distance and time. Continue to eat healthy and provide a good example for the kids.

Measure(s): Lose last 7 pounds and maintain desired weight thereafter.


Goal: Increase my opportunities and to GAL

Action: Begin to focus on GAL activities that are not solely focused on my children. While this mainly leaves only nights available, take advantage of community, church and other social events.

Measure(s): One non-child event each week.


Relationship

Goal: I will work to see my W with the same heart, mind and eyes I used when we first met regardless of the current pain she is causing.

Action: Focus intently on listening and not reacting. Validate feelings and allow her to lead the conversation. Do not focus or turn conversation on myself. Exit first once appropriate.

Measure(s): W eventually increases confidence that she can talk with me and conversations become less heated and more reaffirming for her. Ultimately conversations of this nature increase month over month.


Goal: Live the “37 rules” each day.

Action: Read the “37 rules” three times a day until I am living them.

Measure(s): Complete reading – if I am doing it right I will note less missteps in my journaling.



Goal: Be the person I want to love, be and to communicate with.

Action: Create an environment that is welcoming, safe, warm and reassuring.

Measure(s): Increased self confidence. Increased regular communication initiated by W. Regain ability to joke and have a laugh each week together.




Family

Goal: Continue great relationship with my kids and being the best father possible

Action: Continue success with patience and help them focus on sharing, kindness and love. Help them use their imaginations more and explore the world with a new set of eyes instead of all the boundaries I used to create correcting them. Reinforce love through verbal and physical affection.

Measure(s): Increased positive moods. Better listening. More independent play.


Goal: Find one new activity each week that can be done as a family and invite the W to join us. Do not have the event depend on her participation.

Action: Take advantage of local classes, outings, events, etc that the kids can enjoy and learn from.

Measure(s): Kids discuss the great time they had at previous event as we give our nightly thanks for the things we are thankful for.



Professional / Career

Goal: Increase network opportunities for career change to be initiated in 6 months.

Action: As part of GAL goal, stop passing up dinners, networking opportunities and social event that would allow for professional contact and career growth.

Measure(s): Increased contact list in relevant professional areas.


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W:41
M: 12 yrs
W's EA began 3/12
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heyhi-

i need to be setting goals too, and am having a hard time starting. i just thought of something tho, in response to your goal of getting your w to do something for/with herself- and you were going to share more about your meditation.

my sister is "into" meditation (well, was) and she tends to tell me in response to anything and everything- that i need to meditate also. while i know she's trying to help andf share something that she thinks helps her - i get alittle "put off" by her constant urging. we all need to find what peace we can in our own ways. .

I thought it might be helpful - that maybe if you just manage in every conversation to compliment your wife on something (look , attitude, handling of something) that she did right and that you like about her - you may convey your "approval" instead of a "suggestion for improvement". - nothing makes a woman warm up and feel the possibilities - than her h actually showing- telling - what he likes and sees positive about you - rather than advice on h ow to be better.

i've read mwd books and realize she says it's how men interact & communicate- by solving problems and offering solutions. BUT - girls just would like to feel like they are appreciated just as they are- and then, if she were to ask what you thought or for a suggestion- you could say what helps you.

i've got my baggage here- it's just a thought tho, since I am a w trying to communicate with a h - it's hard enough sometimes to just capture the feeling (without his specific communication) that this guy actually likes you and the person you are - and remember HOW THAT feels & felt -

there's always so much "other stuff" going on- just a humble suggestion- i find my particular h can't seem to bring himself to say much that is just plain ole "good" or complimentary. i want to just give up in the face of such aridity sometimes. (hope i'm not offensive- you may be a very upbeat & complimentary guy, in which case, forget it) but- it did occur to me

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Hi zig-

I would like to participate with your goal "classes". I read everyone's and they sound so focused. i'm having trouble- but here goes:

1. Stop feeling pressured to "make a decision" every day about my life with this guy - (go or stay)
How: a) reread the db chapter on mlc every morning w/ coffee
b) remind myself every time to stop- & remember I can always start a new life when i'm absolutely SURE I do not want him in my life. & HAVE PATIENCE


2. keep walking every day - & do stomach crunches so don't think while walking.

3.

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zig - i'm sorry- i somehow submitted my beginning of goal list - i ws trying to press "tab" and it got sent-

3. Get more sleep.
How: -use mwd case story suggestion & have handy a task i've been procrastinating about- if awake 15 min- go work on it. see how that goes.

4. Work on gal - (more)
how: a) ANY time ANY social activity presents itself- DO IT
B) Find a couple clubs to join - take computer classes at library up north & keep walking every nite w/ bud
c) visit anyone more- keep getting out of
house -
d) go & sell stuff at flea market for fun & clearout on lonely weekends.
d) TRY to find substitute teach job or temp. job up no. TRY REMEMBER that mwd says doing nothing is far worse than trying ANYTHING NEW -
e) try to quit worrying About doing wrong things w/regard to h. try to see self as NOT only part of a r.

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hi everyone - i'm sorry i haven't been around. will start responding tonight and hope to get back to all who have posted asap smile

it's wonderful that there are so many who are joining the goals thread - and for all who are keeping up - please feel free to help each other out and add your own observations on what has helped.

what would also be great to see is if people came back to monitor and talk about results and pursue their next set of goals. I haven't been very good about that myself

cheers
zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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afa - i've really reneged on replying ot your questions - forgive me!

i'm still not sure how to respond. i can only tell you where i'm at and have been the past few weeks and what thoughts i've been "living on" maybe some of that can help you?

"what you resist, persists"

i've just found that the MOST peace of mind i get in my sitch is to stop resisting on what is happening - detail by detail, and then i get to a place with peace of mind, and i can respond towards my h in a loving manner. so if something comes up that is emotionally very difficult for me to handle, then instead of "reacting" to it, i sit with myself and try to see what's behind my reactions - what deeper fears do they bring up for me, and then face those fears. and when i face and let go of the underlying fear, the thing that was bothering me sells to become rather insignificant.

i also try to stand in my h's shoes and see it from his perspective and try to "learn" him. then i find myself feeling more compassionate about where he is at. and that requires, at least for me, to let go in the moment of my needs, my ego, to see it from where he's at. if i manage to see it, a lot more makes sense. then i can be in a mental place where i can calmly acknowledge my own needs and be aware of them but at the same tim take into consideration that there are his needs also, which are very different form mine

your presumption is correct - to lovingly detach - but that doesn't mean anything to us LBS's until we have done enough emotional growth to get there. it's only a vague phrase until then.

and you're right about it all starting with self worth - we have to work on ourselves and get to a place of enough inner strength and self-confidence, and when we get there - all those endless questions about how we should do and what we should do and when suddenly fall away and it becomes very clear int he moment and we don't have to ask any more

which is why - making personal goals and striving for them is at first more important than making goals for the relationship

to turn the focus to ourselves and else where form the sitch until we are strong enough to deal with our sitches head on - and believe me when you get there, you'll be dealing with it in a very different way than you imagine you will, before you do

so yes, work on yourself, your life - that's what DB'ing is all about and as i read somewhere recently:

Fill your cup first before you try to fill someone else's cup

hope this helps and come tell us all how you are doing with your goals smile

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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hi d-man - apologies to you to for not responding in a more timely way

so i read through your post and you have made some stride towards being more specific and that's great!

it's been a bout a week - would you like to let me know how things are going fro you and what progress you've made?

did you more weights? have you had any opportunities to adjust your schedule to gal more? what did you do?

do you feel there have been any improvements with communication w/ your w since you made these goals - if not, what have you observed, if yes - what did you do different?

don't worry about the last one - you'll know when the time is right. also, better if she initiates

look forward to your update:)
zig


me 46 H 38
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h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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Hi Mrs. D - apologies

first i want to say that you wrote out your goals brilliantly - really clear and precise and i'm thinking that even though i didn't respond - your own actions in being very specific have surely had you well on the way to achieving these goals.

so its a bit over a week. how do you feel about where you are compared to where you were when you wrote them? have you had success and achieved those feelings that you stated?

about the thought-stopping. that is hard and it takes time. do you feel you have made any progress even a lithe? if you still want suggestions, let me know and i'll write some down here

if you have the time, it will be lovely to know where you are at and how you've been monitoring your progress smile

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
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BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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Zig no worries on the time of your reply. I've used some of the time to grow.
When I'm at a computer (not my phone), I'll revamp them. smile

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Hi zig- twice i began and when trying to edit and tidy up- managed to submit- so i've copied over my list so it's all in one place- and added a bit -

1. Stop feeling pressured to "make a decision" every day about my life with this guy - (go or stay)

How: a) reread the db chapter on mlc every morning w/ coffee
b) remind myself every time to stop- & remember I can always start a new life when i'm absolutely SURE I do not want him in my life. &
c) work more on having patience - see bigger picture?
d) stop overthinking everything in universe.


2. keep walking every day - & do stomach crunches so don't think while walking.


3. Get more sleep.
How: -use mwd case story suggestion & have handy a task i've been procrastinating about- if awake 15 min- go work on it. see how that goes.

4. Work on gal - (more)
how: a) ANY time ANY social activity presents itself- DO IT
B) Find a couple clubs to join - take computer classes at library up north & keep walking every nite w/ bud
c) visit anyone more- keep getting out of
house -
d) go & sell stuff at flea market for fun & clearout on lonely weekends.
d) TRY to find substitute teach job or temp. job up no. TRY REMEMBER that mwd says doing nothing is far worse than trying ANYTHING NEW -
e) try to quit worrying About doing wrong things w/regard to h. try to see self as NOT only part of a r.

5) work on my communication -
A) TRY HARDER to not be defensive- and not wiseguy either.
b) Even if it's hard to be sincere- just try and be self like olden days - don't feel compelled to be "tough" about this all - find way to be neutral but Nice TOO.
c) stop & think before speaking- try and be more concise- try & never get shrill or really "rant-ie" about anything!!! . (am doing LOTS BETTER - i thk i've become very lazy in life w/my communications - too emotional - across the board- everyone I know will benefit from this as well as me.!)

6) Take better care of self: (health)
a) Remember eat better- incorp. more protein
b) take a daily vitamin-
c) watch saturated fat, stay below 20 gram daily. watch cholesterol
d) do better w/weights- still too haphazard- get regular

7) continue improve wardrobe -
a) look better around house-
b) chuck (today) bunch old junk should not wear ever again).

8) re-read mwd book on changing life & continue work on relationship w/mother & don't let it get me depressed -
a) remember she DOES have some other kids-if i cannot do something- someone else can pitch in- NOT ALL MY JOB-ALL THE TIME.
B) get her bad temper & insults in perspective- stop before speak & don't let her suck me into response/fight.
c) don't take it personally- she's responding to old age & her own issues - BELIEVE IT WHEN I TELL MYSELF THIS

9) FIGHT FEELINGS of hopelessness - feeings change - this too shall pass - one way or the other -
a) maybe find a church and go
b) try and be around up-beat people
c) try & limit (somehow) contact w/people that are real troubled people & depressing as hell-
D) remember - IT IS NOT my job or even possible to save them. I only have to listen & be courteous - I DO NOT NEED To come up with cure or solution- take a giant step back - do not get sucked DOWN & don't let them make me responsible for their unhappiness...(good luck- but try)

this is my beginning- thanks for any input or help. i can certainly use it.

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Here is what I would hope is just the beginning of my goal list.

1. Find things in life that make me feel good, things to do and explore that are of my interests.

This will make me feel like I am an important individual who will be “ok” when doing things separate from my family.

2. Get my physical appearance to a place that makes me feel comfortable in my own skin. Improve on and maintain my weight, dress, hair, nails, skin and over all looks that bring me to a place of feeling pretty.

3. Put myself out there whenever possible to meet new people, make friends, and develop a relationship with someone outside of my comfortable circle of familiarity.

Meeting new people has always been fun for me, I enjoy different point views, and learning about what works for them. I like feeling networked and informed.

4. Don't allow myself to be a punching bag, doormat, soundboard, for my H who needs to expel his "spew" at me. Stand up for myself saying "I don't deserve to be spoken to in this way" then remove myself from the scene.

I feel very empowered when I can do this and execute it flawlessly.

5. Learn to take care of my home, learning new ways, be it asking my 3 sons or a professional to help me get my home in order and stop relying on my H to do the projects needed. Take charge...it's my home with my children!

I love the results of projects no matter how they get done…this will make me feel homey and house-proud, another check for doing things that make “me” feel good.

6. Don't let the mood of others influence my day. Don't try to take on what I can't control about H, control myself and tell myself that everyday, there's a reason to do something new and exciting, no matter how small it may be.

I will continue to work on this very hard one for myself, even baby steps feel wonderful.

7. My name literally means "the start of a new day". I want to approach every day without any garbage from the day before...as an extension of what was good...and as a blank slate for what's ahead.

I feel better everyday when I accomplish this one, it take a lot of work, I need to be more consistent.

8. I will do my best for me, my kids and even my H who no matter what the outcome of our M, will always be my family, and someone I loved very much.

This makes me feel proud, mature, that in the face of this “worse time of my life” I can be positive, rise above H’s ignorance and still include him in my good grace. I want to approach everything from a loving place because it makes me feel at my best.

My faith that God has heard my prayers to take my M into his hands, help me with my choices ahead, and give me the strength to deal with what comes next, is strong enough for me to push forward.

I guess I'm about to meet the women that I've been seeking, the last time I saw her she was just a girl. How will I recognize her...she'll be the one standing tall with her family by her side.


The past can't be ahead of you in the future.
You don't have to figure it all out, just pick a direction.
What's next...I don't know but I can't wait!
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dawnmarie,

Gotta love the "doing ME today" in your sig. What a great way to capture GAL 24/7. Good for you!

Greta goals by the way. Reading yours help me improve mine.


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M: 12 yrs
W's EA began 3/12
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Nero, this is great! I have the advantage of speaking to you for several weeks now, so I know this is a really big step in the right direction for you.

Stay off that "make a decision" wheel and just focus on you, in the moment. "Baby steps" is my favorite term. wink


The past can't be ahead of you in the future.
You don't have to figure it all out, just pick a direction.
What's next...I don't know but I can't wait!
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Williams, so glad to hear from you! It's nice to hear that I can give even a little bit of encouragement to someone who can relate.

We are moving forward everyday...might as well pick our own destinations!


The past can't be ahead of you in the future.
You don't have to figure it all out, just pick a direction.
What's next...I don't know but I can't wait!
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Thanks for your comment Nero. You are right about the compliments and all. I used to do that while we were together but since she's left and is seeing OM, I feel that over-doing it that way might be seen as pursuing.

Re: the meditation, she has seen the effect it has on me and has already shown interest in literature I brought home. She's actually borrowed a few books and often asks questions about my classes. I have a feeling that she is curious about it and that she is tempted to go but something is either holding her back or she just doesn't want to make the time for it. The thing is, she's the one who showed interest in it initially and I went for it.


Freshman Class of 2012

M-49
W-42
1D-10
T 10 YEARS
M 9 YEARS
EA/MLC 07/2010
Separation 28/05/2012
PA confirmed 31/07/12
W Asked for D 31/07/12
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Originally Posted By: Arsene
Thanks for your comment Nero. You are right about the compliments and all. I used to do that while we were together but since she's left and is seeing OM, I feel that over-doing it that way might be seen as pursuing.

Re: the meditation, she has seen the effect it has on me and has already shown interest in literature I brought home. She's actually borrowed a few books and often asks questions about my classes. I have a feeling that she is curious about it and that she is tempted to go but something is either holding her back or she just doesn't want to make the time for it. The thing is, she's the one who showed interest in it initially and I went for it.



When you consider they start these things up, and the feelings they have in it. You understand it's easier for them to keep on going the way that they are. They definately are not going to answer to you. Understand that. Also by continuing on the course, they will lose respect and care for you. In the end they may or may not even care about you anymore...

When you understand this, you will really look forward to DETACHING from it.

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hey hi- sounds good and good luck with it. nothing more frustrating than trying to share something you find great with someone you'd like to share with -is there? . it's the hard part - isn't it? not sharing with that person we've spent what feels like a lifetime sharing with. everything was always bettr when shared - good and bad.

it's so wacky- how it all goes soooo wrong, after being soooo right!! i sound delusional i know- but you know- i still am amazed i find myself here. my case - i was just blind and so busy in life putting good spin on everything and everyone (my either good feature or bad) - that i didn't see who i was really dealing with- or even consider the possibility he wasn't all the wonderfulness i always just thought he was. maybe i expected waay more to be there than was- oh well- im sure paying the piper now.

oquestion is- do we shelve our optimism in life if it's blown up so badly? or keep on being who we are and looking for the good side?

i tried meditation and find it really really hard to sit still. i've found that if i walk and crunch my stomach to the count or four- i can achieve some mind-relaxing place where i'm just walking and counting and my brain can chill and float away a bit. as close as i come lately to serenity.

I want to try again sometimes- my answer to stress in life or sorrow or all this kind of heavy duty emotion is to keep busy and keep the brain from thinking allllllllllllll the time. sitting still is fatal. but, good to know it works for you- maybe i'll try again someday when i'm "better" in general.

thanks for note- good luck to you. it's soo hard and awful- i feel like a fellow spirit to everyone out there.

i'm not excellent at this- the db- i'm trying and i'm better at some things- i don't think i'm pursuing- i am still here tho - and that's got to be construed as something (either pursuing or surrendering? i'm not sure what/which) . oh well huh? i used to think i had one idea about the man mind- now i realize possibly i do not even have one bit of knowledge.

onward & upward

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forgot to ask- have any particular input or tip about existing and being "okay" with your w having an om? i've got a h with ow and honestly- when i know he's with her - i'm filled with some really petty and awful emotions. do not even pretend to be neutral- i hate it.

thought i'd ask- never know what wise little insight or tip someone may have out there that helps me.

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Hey Nero,

I'll answer this on your thread so as to not highjack this one.

Cheers


Freshman Class of 2012

M-49
W-42
1D-10
T 10 YEARS
M 9 YEARS
EA/MLC 07/2010
Separation 28/05/2012
PA confirmed 31/07/12
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Broad Goals

1. Spend quality time together.
2. Be intimate.
3. No fighting.



Action Goals

1. Quality time.

a. Go on dates, just the two of us, at least twice a month.
b. Go for rides/walks with and without the kids.
c. Spend at least 15 mins per day talking about our day, fears, hopes, and dreams.

2. Intimacy.

a. Hug and kiss daily.
b. Flirt and cuddle.
c. Make love 2-3 times per week.

3. Getting along.

a. Let small things slide.
b. No raised voices, rude comments, or sarcastic remarks.
c. Openly share concerns and be understanding when the other expresses their feelings.



What Will I Be Doing?

1. Quality time.

a. I will be relaxed and upbeat in her presence.
b. I will look forward to whatever time we do have together and enjoy it, no matter what we are doing.
c. I will be her friend and will be supportive of her.
d. I will not complain about how little time we spend together.
e. I will respect her desire to spend some time alone, with friends, or with family without me.

2. Intimacy.

a. Currently, I will respect her desire not to be touched by me at all.
b. I will be her friend and only make contact as I might with a friend.
c. I will give loving, non-sexual, touch.
d. I will not complain about frequency of sex.
e. I will not pursue or push her for sex.
f. I will appreciate any love making as a gift given.

3. Getting along.

a. I will let small things slide.
b. I will not yell or raise my voice.
c. I will listen to, and adjust, the tone of my voice.
d. I will not glare, stare, huff, or sigh.
e. I will leave and calm down if necessary.
f. I will listen to her rather than waiting for my turn to talk.



First Signs – Baby Steps


1. Quality time.

a. She will tell me about her day and ask me about my day.
b. She will linger in a room with me.
c. She will text/call me.
d. She will be home earlier when I have a short night at work.

2. Intimacy.

a. She will not get angry at my touch.
b. She will sit closer to me and sleep closer to me.
c. She will touch me in a friendly manner.
d. She will initiate touch with me by touching my arm when we pass each other.

3. Getting along.

a. She will stop prefacing statements with, “I don't want to fight” or “without fighting”.
b. She will let small things slide without snapping at me.
c. She will not be snide or sarcastic with me.
d. She will be more relaxed in my presence and perhaps smile.


“People are just as happy as they make up their minds to be.” Abraham Lincoln
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Ok. I think I've come up with some goals.

Here's my story:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2286524#Post2286524

Goal Number One (Big Picture}

Ideal--A NEW marriage with my husband. A marriage where I feel able to be myself and we actually work as a team without all the judgement, criticism, rejection, betrayal and dishonesty. Sticking it out and being patient for today. Not sure how I will feel tomorrow.

Goal Number Two:
Successful business earning $5,000 per month net income.

Goal Number Three:
A Life. A balanced life including friends, eventually a lover (hopefully maybe?) my husband, hobbies and a clean house filled with love, respect and fun.

Baby Steps:

1. Want my H to text or call me for no reason other than wanting to communicate with me. (He has been AWOL)

2. Put my business finances for October in order. Think about advertising for another client.

3. Start a standing party on Friday nights called "Women and Wine" where my friends are welcome to come over Friday night and drink wine and chit chat. Send text out tomorrow. Also, continue planning Oct. 27th Halloween Party.

That's its.

Number one may require me to exercise my Wonder Woman powers!! And, those of a power greater than myself for sure.

Heather


"You know, it's times like these when I realize what a superhero I am." Tony Stark/Iron Man

“Focus on what you can do, then do it with all your heart.” Lois Wilson
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LoisB, it's great that you made your goals, it took me months.

''A NEW marriage with my husband''

''Want my H to text or call me for no reason other than wanting to communicate with me"

Try not to have any expectations about you H, so you won't set yourself up for disappointment.

I love that you set up your own business, great goal to for business earnings.

Good Luck!!!


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Hi everyone.

Here's my post: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2289763#Post2289763

I've never been big on setting goals especially good ones or ones that I've stuck to. So, here's hoping that these goals make the grade so to speak.

Goal: Spend more time with friends

- call/text friends at least once a week.
- Plan a girls night for one evening a month

Goal: Be more aware of my finances

- Look for part-time job
- Watch how I spend money
- Increase savings by 3%

Goal: Do more for myself

- Get a facial twice a year
- Buy 1-2 pieces of new clothes every 4 months
- Read 1-2 books/year for self-improvement
- Read 1-2 books/year for entertainment

I'm trying not to focus on H with these goals. I want to make baby steps. Are these too broad?


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Early 5/12 H FB post re: his love for me.
End 5/12 H done trying, writes "Dear John" letter
6/12 Wants D, calls ATTY, no file
1/13 Loves me, wants to try, moves home
3/13 Changes mind
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Okay so I have been thinking about goals.

I have a few so I will list them here I guess. I would love some feedback.

First relationship goals.....
feel less like enemies. Meaning H will come over or speak and not be "edgy"
How to get there? Continue to not be baited into arguments or conversations where I blame or am critical. Try to give WOA. Smile, be upbeat, interested but not consumed, and continue to do my own thing.

Second.......I would love for him to actually show interest in me some way. Not particular which way but how are you? What are you doing? Just something he actually initiates.

GAL goals : JOB. -- Finances. I think it will do wonders for my PMA if I am completely supporting myself and the kids. I already am but don't really feel like I am. I lack confidence in this. One of my biggest fears is not being able to do that.
SCHOOL -- Not let the current situation derail my education and goals. Grad in March.
Other GAL- Spend more time doing outside the home activities library for ex.
Also considered the womens club and maybe a pottery class.
Look for a church. I am definitely needing the spiritual connection.
House- Continue clearing the clutter. If H does file I would like to not have a stressful move.
Also in the same category to work on the minor repairs that I am capable of doing.
Body clutter -- Incorporate SOME form of exercise. Not sure what at this point though. Yes, I know that is too vague. Perhaps I have too many goals?




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That is a big GOAL list lol!! But good for you! ((()))

You can support yourself and kids, it is my fear too. I am fast tracking grad school in order to be out in workforce faster. It will be hard and money will be tight, but I think it will pay off in the long run. smile

I put up the Christmas lights AND a towel rack AND some pictures AND coat hooks...so can you smile

GOAL:
To go as dark as possible with two kids and shared finances. Means no first contact, short and sweet when we do. Look amazing, be friendly and capable.

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Hi. I'm a bit conflicted with my goals. I have some that are H related and then some that are personal. This is just a start but wanted to get others opinion:

Goals for Relationship:

1. I would like H to move home by the end of June 2013.
2. I would like H to trust that he can love me without the fear of being hurt.
3. I would like H and I to have open communication
4. I would like both of us to have a balanced life of family, our relationship, friends, hobbies and a strong commitment to each other and our daughter.

Personal Goals:

1. I will continue to be the best mom I can be.
2. I will continue to follow the last resort technique
3. I will get out and actually DO things on my own and for myself
4. I will continue to pray and find a spiritual connection
5. I will practice thought stopping techniques
6. I will take care of myself
7. I will stop drowning myself and my friends in self pity.

This is just the start, I'm trying to read through DR but also work on my goals at the same time. I know I next have to define the action goals, what I will be doing, and then any signs to watch for.

What do you think? I find it difficult to define goals for H when I can't control what he will actually do.

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In the new year -

This forum will be moved to "Staying Solution Focused".


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