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from dawnmarie

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I'm in need guidance. I know what I want, not afraid to ask, but not I don't know how to execute anything for just myself without H by my side.







Hi Dawnmarie -- please post a brief recap of your story.

Last edited by dbmod; 08/13/12 08:49 AM.

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Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
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Hi- ok, thanks for this!

I hope to keep this brief. I'm married 23yrs, 4 grown kids still living at home, I have been a homemaker, my H works nights & days, has been (by all of my reading) for several yrs now in MLC.

H went into a deep anger in 2009. In 2011 he had an A for 6 months, and is still in an EA with OW.

H brought up the idea of D once to his own surprise. He asked to be "aloud" to move out, after several times of saying go, he complained I won't let him go!

I realize now he wanted me to "let him go" figuratively.

He's not leaving, still works hard, pays everything, anger is joined w/deep depression, criticizes himself, refuses to get old, says he's already dead, kisses me hello, compliments are coming back slowly, sleeps in my bed, claims the good H loves me, this H is a new man who loves being on the flip side (the wrong side) .

I have to live in this house, validatie him, be kind, not talk about were's he's been, get vm from his EA emotionally abusing him, and I'm spinning dizzily around feeling trapped, alone, angry, ect....

I have never really worked...didn't finish college...don't have friends, as H was my BFF.

I want to learn how to GAL, I was 21 when we meet, it will be new for me without H, and not as a W, but as just me.


The past can't be ahead of you in the future.
You don't have to figure it all out, just pick a direction.
What's next...I don't know but I can't wait!
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Hi dawn

how are you?

I'm sorry that you are in such a difficult position. You have been very brave coping with all you have described, so you are already off to a great start.

and by that i mean that even if you feel that you won't know how to GAL or are afraid to go out and do things on your own, i'd like to point out to you that if you are so brave to have endured what you have , then you are already brave enough to do those things smile

Our perception of ourselves and what we feel we can or cannot do is often the biggest thing that stops us from doing something. especially something new.

So how about starting out with making a shift in your perception of how you view yourself?

Right now you view yourself as a woman who has not done a lot of things with others except with your h and family.

How would it look to you if you went out to GAL? what would it feel like, what would you feel like?

What do you see as GAL'ing?

could you put some thoughts down on those questions? including the fears you may have about attempting any of them?

what are your interests? what would you like to do, even if it felt impossible or really foolish? what would make you feel good?

so think about it and let us know

((((( )))))
zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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HI zig,

People tell me I have really gone further than they would have been able to handle. I'm loosing site now of if I'm working through this for H, our relationship and family, or am I scared of life without him?

I think my lack of bravery stems from not wanting to be alone (only child), I had a very lonely childhood. I also fear success...not sure why yet.

Maybe there doesn't have to be a cut a dry answer...a little bit of everything in the pot makes a better soup.

To go GAL looks like abandoning my H,M, kids. Though logically I know that's not true...I have had a safe secure haven here that didn't force me to make that decision.

GAL is having something that's mine...for me to work hard at, enjoy, explore. I like doing lots of family oriented things like bbq's, movie nights, big dinners, active outdoor fun.

How can I really be alone with 4 kids, easy....they have their own lives. I was ok with that, really, because my time was coming, were I would be free like when I was young. This time I would be a real adult, with money, a car, no fake ID necessary.

The time you look forward to as parents when you can reconnect with each other and explore the next chapter of life together. I can't help feeling cheated of that time that I earned.

Getting to be just me will be a challenge...but one I must face. I think H would like to see that in me also.

I want to make a friend. One who is a sincere listener, secret keeper (and teller), family oriented, good humored, good natured type of person. It might be nice to meet someone who gets to know the me of today.

I want my car (new car,cause H took it when his broke down) it will help me feel that sense of adult freedom I seem to be headed towards. I might as well start out in style smile

Thanks for writing-I have enjoyed reading some of your comments on other threads. I'm grateful to have someone read and respond to my words of confusion, someone who themselves can probably relate.


The past can't be ahead of you in the future.
You don't have to figure it all out, just pick a direction.
What's next...I don't know but I can't wait!
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hi dawn - can i call you that? it makes me think of a new day - new life....

my first thought after reading your reply is that you have to go at this gently.

fear can really hold us back, but forcing things when we are not ready can be very painful also. otoh, sometimes jumping in the deep end may be all it takes to find out that our fears are not real, just imagined

I can relate very much to what you are going through - I did not do anything either without h for all the years of our marriage and after BD, it was scary - every little and big step i took brought up so much fear that i was almost paralysed.

but what i found out slowly was that the fear would build up terribly before i did it, and then while i was doing it and after - i just had fun and forgot all about fearing once i started.

your saying to go GAL looks like abandoning your H, M and kids?

I had that feeling too in the beginning - almost as if i had to sit at home and hold up the fort until he came back. but sadly what i found out was that that was co-dependency within myself that i had to work on and resolve.

Have you read Co-Dependent No More? if you haven't , I really recommend that you do. It will help you to see where you are at and how that thinking is detrimental not only to yourself but also to your relationship with H and kids.

Instead of seeing it as abandoning them, could you see it as you going out to do fun stuff on your own that you can come back and tell them about and they can get pleasure from seeing your enjoyment?

Another book that would be great for you to read is The Dance of Anger, if you haven't yet. It teaches about how to change the old patterns in relationships, which from what you wrote, sounds as if it is sorely needed.

One mistake I made during my whole marriage was that I was ALWAYS here for h and s. i never went anywhere to do my own thing. and i learned after BD, that that's what they expected and took my presence for granted. i really believe that my h thinks i'll just be here in case he changes his mind. he gets very agitated, even a year later when i do something he doesn't expect.

Have you read anything about Pursuer/Distancer dynamic in relationships? I think it would be wise for you to read and understand about how that works. there's a very good reason the maxim "absence makes the heart grow fonder" exists.

so now to you.

I asked you some questions but didn't get any answers so i'll ask them again.

1. what kind of real support do you have?
2. i sense that you are depressed and i maybe wrong, but do you have a therapist/priest/counselor - someone trained that you can talk to?
3. i asked what you like to do and you answered with family oriented stuff. let's find other things that don't involve your family. it can be simple like joining a book club or going to sit in your local library every tuesday evening for an hour. it doesn't have to be complicated

even though i've been gal'ing for a while now - i find myself thinking sometimes - wow i'm not sure what i like to do on my own, i'm going to have to rediscover that all over again.

so realize that there's no pressure

can you take a class - at the local whatever?

let's find one little thing for now and then when you feel comfortable with that, you'll get excited and new ideas will come

also you said you wanted to make a friend. so let's focus on that too. how can you meet new people? do you go to church, extra activities there, are there meet ups in your area (google meetup dot com and search for hiking, cooking, etc and you'll find the groups - they are really relaxed and easy going)?

so lets choose one or two things to focus on and get you started and then we'll take it from there

would that work for you?

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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hey hi-

just got back from airport- you sound like you're having a bit of a crisis there with this all. it does feel like alot of pressure to "detach now" and gal "now", etc. i feel scared alot of the time about living alone too. I don't even have kids. my closest sister died in '08 & now person i planned to spend my life with is spinning out of control mlc. i just don't know- any answers really- i just feel like you described exactly and i even worked for 25 years. so, i think you (and I) can step out of your home any time you want and there will be a surprising lot of things and things to do out there that you just don't happen to know about rite now. it's just a matter of waking up one day and feeling like maybe testing the water.

i surprisingly & accidentally took a 2-month job last week- totally unexpected. i didn't even ask anyone what they thought or even thought it thru myself. it just dropped into my lap- i went and said okay. i still don't even want to think about any long range implication or outcome. shut off brain- put on makeup and go in the morning. only have done a couple days - can't even believe i did it. i don't even know the job- they'll train me they say. just feels good to do something new- learn something new- be someone different- etc.

if a blob-fest like me can surprise herself- then you can too. i think the right thing will drop in your face or wop you on the head and you'll do it if the time is rite for you.

i'm sounding mighty positive here- hope it lasts. i just don't care at the moment about him and allllllll the "s" - i didn't even ask what he thought - and we were sharing the car when he was here. i just got up- nice as pie- got dressed- went off for the day and came home. he didn't volunteer his opinion and i didn't ask.

it's been a wierd visit- he was very unusually nice - this makes me very unusually suspicious unfortunately. i didn't say anythng. ow is still in the picture i'm sure- it still makes me sick to think about- am trying not to. when he leaves and i know he'll see her i really would like to drive over him with this damn car. oops- sorry, was that vicious? i don't know how to conquer that -

you know- that other bit last week or two ago about detaching and not inflating his ego by standing by while he has an affair) and you sayng you are standing and fighting, etc. i just want to tell you- my reaction was total mortification and disgust about his affair- and i heard daddy & his position about confirming it - BUT - i have to say that like you - i also felt"why the heck would i just lay down and die and let this jerk take my life away and me just hand it right over". somehow walking away seemed a hell of alot like just giving him his way and skulking away like a little beaten puppy. or something like that- i don't know where that comes down in this all. i hate this being patient stuff- i'm doig it but i don't have to like it. it just felt like the wrong thing to do- walk out for effect - my entire adult life was involved with this man and this relationship- you don't turn off 34 years of love like a faucet. it's complicated for women - very vry very

i am not at all okay with his affiar- he knows i hate it- i don't say it anymore- i do hate it alot and constantly tho. i don't know that anything is gained by walking right away other than giving him carte blanche to make me the bad guy and go right ahead and there i am- the guy alone. did that make sense to you? it's personal- a friend of mine had similar sitch - don't know resolution- but she said after a few years of therapy- tranquilizers - lawyers - her therapist who'd been divorced three times- just said to her- "think long and hard before you walk away from this long life with this guy - what are you walking away TO??? it will be you on your own- is that better? she didn't walk away- i keep thinking of that woman's comment. it's you and me who would be walking away to "what???"

my life was like yours- this great companion- great home life- everything i needed in life in one place. til he quit smoking- went mlc-nuts. michele's description fit our sitch exactly- so i'm thinking it's the problem here.

it just [censored] and is awful- so you feel like you do. it's not your lack of work experience, etc.- it's the giant sinkhole they've dumped us in with this crap. - oh well- just a thought. maybe what you feel and i feel is just what we have to feel til we begin to feel something else?

you saying let him go "figuratively" - well, what the hell does that mean really??? maybe they want to be young and single and free of responsibility- well, who the hell doesn't? they are greedy- i think - but just knowing it doesn't help does it? i think that my h wants "it all" too- but then he doesn't go anywhere. no one has a gun to their heads making them stay around us. plenty of people clear the hell out- if these guys are staying i just don't know what the heck to think of them. they are screwed up and don't know it- but just self-indulgent jerks- and floundering around. and hurting perfectly good women who love(ed) them-. i'm trying to get accustomed to the idea i may end up alone and may not like this man (or what he's turned into) at the end of the day-

it's touch and go. i don't think you need to decide anything this very moment as he's giving you the "time" advantage- and my h is too (and continues to i hope). in our own time i think we'll come to the right mvoes for ourselves- i have no idea what they wll be - but don't feel badly for wanting to fight for what you had - my jury is out on whether or not the men we love are "still in there".

hope you'e doing okay

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Originally Posted By: dawnmarie


I think my lack of bravery stems from not wanting to be alone (only child), I had a very lonely childhood. I also fear success...not sure why yet.




hi dawn, i read once that courage is not the absence of fear, it is moving forward in spite of the fear. you are brave, you have already shown courage, you did not pull the covers up and stay in bed since the BD, you did not quit life... you have been moving forward, being courageous in an incredibly difficult and scary situation...

and you are facing and admitting your fear, which takes courage..

((((((((((((( )))))))))))))))


Me(f): 51 W: 41
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Thank you, needgrace! It's like I need to be hit with a positive stick every day I get out of bed.

The words on this forum have REALLY helped me turn my head toward some real goals. I was a zombie...full of crazy thoughts and anxiety just three weeks ago. My blood pressure was crazy!

Good thoughts your way also...this is really of forum of real people w/real life situations that need a lot of TLC.


The past can't be ahead of you in the future.
You don't have to figure it all out, just pick a direction.
What's next...I don't know but I can't wait!
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Hi zig - you can call me Dawn...it's my favorite time of day!

Fear is my biggest hurdle, so I always try to keep my eyes open - really listen and pay attention to signs around me. I love those big ones...you know when everything you do feels like your hitting a road block until your like "ok" I get it.

Thanks for sharing your storie with me...your right once you just do it the fear seems almost silly. The one thing i have pushed through is detaching ( a little) even a small amount does feel good.

I really took the M life to heart...full force that's who i was...that was my mistake because i did loose myself. oh yea, I told myself i was who I am, mom, W, D, friend, but no, I left out me and became the titles.

I am holding the fort down and they do take me for granted...sometimes I feel silly watching everyone walk out the door GAL in front of me.

Thanks for the book idea...I downloaded it to my Kindle last night.

As far as support goes I have my parents who listen and want for me what ever I choose. I don't really consider them very "supportive" because I try to keep them at a distance...not like how I would share with a good friend.

My two closest friends....one is single can't relate, can't take the pressure of it all. The other has her own H in MLC and is in denial.

My S23 comes to me every couple of days asking if I'm ok...what's the latest. I don't burden them though...the biggest support I get from them is company, laughter, even there teasing is a welcome change from being in my head.

I was very depressed to the point of starving ( i lost 9lb in 2wks) dizziness, walking around like a zombie constantly going over things in my head...which caused anxiety.

I've come out of the worst of it around July after finding this forum. My D18 took me shopping to replace all of my "mom" shorts, my H's oversized t's, and I discovered I like tank tops.

I spoke to a counselor 3 wks ago and he really clarified for me that I need to leave H alone. So I listened and found that it helped me so much not to be on his tail 24/7. I need constant counseling though (i'm sure) so I will work on that.

You said you still face- what to do with yourself - I thinks that's great that you have the mind frame developed to be alone at times. It must be hard with a young one around.

I am going to look into the fall activities coming up in our village...that is my favorite time of year.

A part time job is first on my goal list. Something fun where I can meet people, be friendly, have a reason to dress nice...money is not the goal here. Some responsibility that I put on myself for myself would be the growing experience I think would help me detach from all my titles...and come back happier at the end of the day.

This is will be my first goal...and others should trail in behind with a little luck and focus.

You have made me think about myself all day today...I was 180 from H...and he noticed. On my thread there is also a message of "just do it" GAL, you vets come straight forward from experience....sharing this as many of your are still working on "you"...is your greatest gift you bring here. Thank you!


The past can't be ahead of you in the future.
You don't have to figure it all out, just pick a direction.
What's next...I don't know but I can't wait!
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Sweet dawn - i'm going to call you that from now on smile

because all your dawns are going to start being sweeter one by one:)

already in your post tonight, i hear sooo much more positivity - and i'm so delighted for you.

I think that you have a really good pic in your mind of where your life is right now, and the little things that are good in it - like laughing and teasing with your kids. you are also aware what doesn't feel good, and in case you haven't realized this, i will say it here:

The first step to change is the awareness of where you are at.

so you are very aware - and so already on your way towards changing the things you would like to - about yourself and about your life, don't you think?


A part time job is first on my goal list..
This is will be my first goal...and others should trail in behind with a little luck and focus.


I really like that you were so specific here about your first goal.

so now we have started - yippee!!

so you've stated your goal. now i'd like you to break that down and add to it:

1. rewrite the goal so that it is in an "I will..." form
2. what actions can you take towards meeting your goal?
3. how will you feel while you are taking those actions. write that in a "I will be doing...." or I will feel..."

do you think that you can get a part-time job pretty easily, with difficulty - give me your reasons for what you feel your chances are.

meanwhile, i would like you to also think about 2 other very very small goals that are easily doable in the next week or so

my suggestion would be something like "I will go for a 30 min walk every morning/evening on my own"

Actually, I would LOVE to see you just casually put on your sneakers and wave bye to everyone cheerfully as you walk out the door -see you later, i'm off.

i suggest the walk, because it's not big commitment, it's only for your very own self (and if someone says they want to come, say no thanks this is my alone time), it's a great way to relax out of the sitch for a short while and get a break and you get some exercise.

you mentioned that you feel a bit silly watching all the others go out to gal. it's about time they watched you! it's the awareness again.

which book did you get?

when you wrote 'holding the fort down" i instantly thought - dawn has to read Dance of ANger - it's all about learning how not to do that, how to drop the rope on that - and in a very gentle way.

another small goal - something goofy, ok - you need a little pleasure in your life right now - "I will have my nails done once every two weeks" or something self indulgent like that.

could you and your mom or other female relative/friend go off to a spa or something like that - something really different? you mentioned clothes - how about your hair.

you discovered you love tank-tops - what else could you discover you like? your D18 sounds wonderful and very supportive by the way. don't be shy about asking her to help you more - D18's love doing that kind of stuff - i know i do when my mom asks me:) (you and her go to a spa!!)

so that second goal - i want it to be something that is geared towards you feeling really good about your body - because that leads to higher self-esteem, and confidence and once you get that moving - it just keeps getting better and better

so i'm excited for you sweet dawn - all the new discoveries and things that are going to happen for you - it's going to make life just a little simpler and easier:)

btw - i like what your C said. Are you seeing him regularly? I hope so. I suggest you don't view yourself as one who needs 'constant counseling". the view we take of ourselves defines us.

how about looking at it as - "I'm going through a tough spot and could use some support and help in finding my way through it. "

in case you haven't noticed, grin I am going to point out self-negativity every time i see it and we will work on getting your self-image to be very positive, so that you can feel great about yourself and your life, no matter what is going on

(((((( ))))))
zig

ps. from now on i don't want you to look for a reason to dress nice. i want you to dress nice everyday all day - it does wonders for our self-esteem. in high school my best friend would dress up for exams - she said it made her feel so confident that she did better than when she didn't and went in wearing sweatpants. there's a big 180 for you that's very easy:)


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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