If any vets are still checking this thread, I thought I'd throw my hat in...
H has filed for D and served me, we are now in our cooling off period before anything can be made final. No kids. He wants to be best friends (wants to go out to eat together, cook together, he still folds my laundry/hangs up delicates) and has noticed that I've been pulling back, saying that he has fun when we hang out and he really wants us to be able to do that. I've had a few sessions with Cheryl and we're at a loss as to what would be a sign that H is reconsidering short of him saying that he is putting the brakes on the D. H's complaints in the M were that, although things were comfortable and improving (we'd been in MC for a long time), he needed more spontenaiety and adventure. I had been working on those things prior to BD with him. I think he has possible EA but no confirmation of that right now. He is not yet 30 but in some ways is acting like MLC and trying to relive his adolescence/college party life. I'm not really interested in being his friend if we are D as I don't really like some of the people he associates with now and I'm not keen on his activities.
I would like some help keeping the focus on myself. I've been working on some fitness goals and GAL a lot (and had been well before BD as I'd recovered from a long-term illness). I feel better than I have in years. But now we are moving toward selling the house and it's hitting me really hard. I also work in the legal profession so the symbolism of D is very salient to me.
So I guess it would be helpful if anyone has experience dealing with possible MLC at a fairly young age. _________________________ 31. H nearing 30. M2.5 T8+ H has thoughts of ending M 11/11 H tired of working on it 3/12 H files 5/12 driving the fast train to D-ville. Served 6/12.
The only way out is through.
Last edited by dbmod; 08/10/1210:39 PM.
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
I think I'm probably going to be heading over to the "surviving the big D" forum in the next few weeks. I just returned from an out of town trip and I am not looking forward to seeing STBXH around the house. Even if he turned around tomorrow and said he wanted to work on us I don't think I'd be up for it.
Anyone? I'm having a hard time over the house issue. I have a lot of anxiety about finances and finding a new place to live that isn't totally disruptive of my current lifestyle (access to gym, transportation, work, etc.)
I have a bootcamp thread but no vet; I would still be interested in doing this. A vet who has gone through D or very close to it might be helpful. I am dealing with a STBX who is clueless about what D entails but maintains it's what he wants. I am just trying to stay on my own path without getting dragged down by him.
Can you explain what you mean by "getting dragged down by him"?
Are you talking about financially... emotionally... both...?
And also, what do you see as "your path"? What path is that? What do you want, other than a fixed M (it may actually have nothing to do with the M)?
He tends to sweeten up before dropping something negative/D-related. I feel fairly detached but the swings like that still aren't easy. I'm not sure how to navigate our relationship given that he still wants to be friends (feared losing me in that way) but I don't really want his friendship given how he had acted and is acting. I have a hard time not slipping back into the backtalk/smartmouth nasty person I am trying not to be anymore. I am trying to view our R as a business transaction only at this point.
Financially i'm not worried about getting dragged down; our stuff was already pretty separate. But it's irritating to hear him talk about planning to buy an ipad or travel to wherever when I am trying to save for trying to take the house on my own. The splitting of stuff which we are just wading into now is really pulling on my insecurities over being financially stable and independent.
My path right now is becoming fully financially independent. Getting the house solely in my name and getting set up for a renter. There are a few wildcards (appraisal value on the house as the primary one) that are causing some anxiety bc they are unknown. I don't see a fixed M with stbx as a realistic goal or even something I want anymore.
I like to use the DB Bootcamp threads for narrow focused, SBT efforts. So for right, I'm just getting clear on where you are at to see what you may want and work on.
~~~~~~
I understand you feel as though you are fairly detached. What is coming through for me though, is you could use more work on that.
In your personal thread, you mention how your H proceeded with "more of the same" behaviour. ie. Using an opportunity to talk to you about D.
If he is doing "more of the same" then it means YOU are doing "more of the same". He can't do more of the same if you have changed and therefore the sitch has changed.
I see a lot of anger still in your posts. That is understandable. Putting "couple" pictures in a shred pile... you can shred the pictures, but you can't erase the past. Is that "tit for tat", that you feel he's erasing your past so you will do the same?
You mention above that you don't want to be friends with him, atm. The reasons you give is because of the way he HAD (past) acted and is acting.
More of the same from you will reap more of the same from him. If he could no longer act the way he is acting, because the sitch changed, then maybe you COULD be friends with him.
~~~~~
So...
From where I sit, it seems to me that GAL is in order.
Second, 180s to get rid of the "more of the same" in the sitch.
What are some stuff, maybe 5 things in a list, that you could do that specifically addresses getting out of "more of the same" and attachment?
Thanks for the hard questions KD. Anger is something I have been working on every day. I actually just finished "dance of anger" and am still processing it. I am feeling it a little more than usual today b/c he just left on a family reunion trip that I'd been looking forward to since last year when it was initially planned.
STBX's "more of the same" that I'm talking about here is only since BD. Act nice/sweet/helpful/charming and then want to talk about D/Ls/selling the house, etc. It's like clockwork now. My agreeing to talk at the time that he asked to talk was a change from pre-BD (he said in the past that I never wanted to talk or there was never a good time to talk).
As for the pictures - I honestly don't know what to do with them. They are easily-replaceable prints of digital photos. We shred everything paper here so it's not an act of anger per se on those. I will ponder my motivations and perhaps put them on a pile for STBX to deal with.
The reason I don't want to be friends with STBX now is because, as he says, we don't seem to share common interests anymore. I agree with this to the extent that he is interested in doing things a normal 22 year old would do and I am not.
As for the "more of the same" - his main reason for BD was our M had been getting better and he was afraid things would be bad again in the future. I'd already changed a lot of my "more of the same" but he continued to D. On the advice of my DB coach I have cooled off more and more as he continues the D process.
For GAL - I have been hitting the gym more than ever. I'm in the best shape I've perhaps ever been since I became chronically ill nearly 10 years ago. I have spent the past 2 years after recovering from my illness reconnecting with many old friends. I go out with friends and coworkers. I attend recurring cultural/educational events in town and have invited different people with me every time. I am planning a day trip out of town for a few months from now and out of the country next year and the year after with friends. This weekend I plan to work on some art and do a few more things around the house to make it appraisal-ready. I am also making a craft gift for a friend who recently had a baby.
As for 5 things to do .... I will continue to ponder this over the weekend. for starters
1. I will start my list of assets/possessions in the house and as adinva recommended (paraphrasing) categorize by must have/want/don't want. I intended to do this this past week and didn't. This will help me feel more informed and prepared for upcoming negotiations over "stuff." Right now I feel out of control because I don't know what he wants to "take" from me.
2. I will investigate when the sport/social leagues start up, what the fees are, and which teams are in my area. I'm in a budget freeze right now until the house stuff is settled.
3. I will calendar some of my alumni association events and actually go to them rather than thinking about going and then not.
Thank you again for posing the questions, KD. This has already been helpful to get me to think of some things that need to be considered and re-considered.
I'm going to say I think I understand how you are feeling... why you are feeling as you are...
My mentor once told me (paraphrased), "If you don't agree with the game, stop playing."
It sounds like your H helped create the sitch you find yourself in, regarding talking about the D. ie. He used your past behaviour of not talking (which stung for you, because it was true) as a way to get you to do talk now about things you do not want to talk about.
He used PAST "more of the same" to create PRESENT "more of the same". And you felt guilty, so you're participating.
It is unfair to you, though. He manipulated you, to an extent...
that's the BAD news...
the "good" news is... he's found a way to get his needs met... ie. Since you wouldn't communicate with him in the past, something that obviously was what he needed (perhaps he's a quality time kind of guy), then he is using "bad" quality time... something is better than nothing perhaps, for him...
So stop the cycle... stop playing...
When he starts being all nicey, nicey... find a way to trigger yourself to spend some time with him in that frame... maybe 5 minutes... 10... you gauge based on what he has been doing... the amount of time it generally takes him to get to the "bad" stuff...
And before that ends, have some THING that you have to go to... to attend to... leave the conversation while it's on a good note, not on a bad note...
Change the pattern by changing YOUR pattern...
Eventually, he may stop trying to butter you up in order to have the bad convo. And he'll go straight to the bad convo, at which time you can simply mention that is for the Ls to take care of.
Both you and he are conditioning yourselves to have only GOOD quality time. The "tough talks" are no longer on the table, because your H wants a D. There's no need to "work things out" between the two of you. Focus on GOOD talks and GOOD time.
I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt... that's worked for me...
Also, I do not understand why you are taking on the job of working towards something HE wants and something that until at least recently, you did not...
You focusing on getting everything ready for the D... why are you doing that? Do you think that by doing all of this and getting things done quickly and efficiently, that this will end the problems?
And I don't think so. I think... and correct me if I'm wrong... that you are now quite angry... and I think it might be more accurate to say "livid" with your H. So you are just doing this and no longer just helping the D move along, but making things happen as quick as you can... because you are done... because of the anger...
So right now, that's "more of the same"...
So perhaps on that one, you can stop DOING towards the D until and unless you are requested to by your L and the proceedings.
Just because you are ready to D... just because your are done... doesn't mean that you have to start doing the D...
I hear you on not doing the work of the D. I have not done anything until recently but talk to my L. I have to run out soon but wanted to clarify that I am working toward settlement stuff now bc stbx is trying to rush to have our house put on the market in early sept. In fact the other day I called him out on doing zero toward the D all summer and now trying to rush this part. I said I was not going to rush to a major decision like that.
I recently decided I want to explore buying him out of the house and taking it on myself. To figure out how much it will be to do that I need to see where we stand to see if there's going to be something to offset his equity share or help me finance this. That is where I am looking now, and I need his financial info to do it.
I'll try to address your other excellent thoughts later tonight or tomorrow when I am not on my phone!
KD thanks again for the post above, I've been kicking it around in my head for the past few days.
I am doing some of the work for the D now because I have been served with discovery requests and have a response deadline.
Am I livid now? I don't think so. Was I earlier? Definitely. Right now I would peg my anger at more of an annoyance level b/c STBX is so ill-informed about the D process (he currently keeps scoffing about how much work full discovery will be) and I am much more informed, but obviously not sharing that with him. I swing between annoyance and pity.
Your assessment of him using the guilt to induce talks is well-taken. I read some of his buttering up with positives as guilt on his part, too.
We did share a "good" time a little over a month ago - went out to a show that we'd already had tickets for. He said he hoped that we could do more stuff like that in the future because he had a really nice time. Not long after that he pestered me to go grab dinner with him, I kept declining, and he kept trying to convince me to go and I finally gave in because I didn't really have anything else going on.
He complains about his job a lot. I validate and leave it at that. I had my own life transition crisis within the last few years and I see a lot of that in him, but he doesn't see it for himself.
He wants to walk to the gym together and gets annoyed when I don't want to do that. He generally talks pretty freely about what he's been up to. I don't. When he asks questions, I'm vague. When I'm vague, he gets irritated. At one point he said "we don't really spend much time together anymore" and "you haven't really had much to say recently" etc. My DB coach said she'd never seen someone pursuing so much while filing for D.
I have no illusions that getting the D over with sooner will end the problems. I continue to own my stuff and work on that. That's all I can do.
Yes, on both accounts. That said, it is still hard to not think there might be some hope when he gets back from traveling and wants to come into my space and talk about something he did or saw that he thought was interesting, or texts me about something going on locally while he's away ... if he wanted his "space" so much . . . why can't he just take it?
Honestly Vera, if you are done, that's OK. I think when we hit that point, we will still always have those questions of, "what if..."
And if you are ready for the consequences and possible regret (not saying you are and not saying possible regret should be a reason to wait... one could then wait, forever)... well, that would always be a tough call, but eventually... it's understandable...
I engaged you here because I for my own reasons, I wanted to be clear that you believe you are ready for this next step.
At this point, the D process has begun... So you can just keep moving forward.
Are you prepared to start moving faster on the D? I mean due diligence, of course... but without delay? Is that how you are proceeding, now?
I think so. I see ways that discovery/D be slightly delayed but I don't see any benefit in that for me now. There's really not much to delay at this point and while I could not consent to the D, which would require that 2 years pass from the separation date before D would be granted, I think it would be better for me to just let it go before that.
I would require changes from stbx that he has proven in the past he is not capable of making long term (e.g. NC from past EA(s)). I now see more clearly the impact of red flags I ignored early on. I am M until I am not, but I am not getting any younger and I'd like a family in a healthy R down the line. I feel like I fought for the M and stbx has done nothing but run away.
So yes, i would say I'm looking at my next steps beyond M.
I do have a question though... regarding the following...
Originally Posted By: vera be fierce
I now see more clearly the impact of red flags I ignored early on.
What red flags would those be:
+ ones that told you that your H was a low life and your M was a sham... (jk)
or...
+ ones that would have helped make you aware of problems earlier on so that you could have acted sooner on and maybe have prevented this mess in the first place?
Haha. The latter. Ones that I let destroy my self esteem over a number of years. Ones that actually led me to lean toward breaking things off with him more than once. He begged his way back and I figured what the heck, maybe he's right. Ah well, eyes wide open now.
Stay focused on YOU and things that you can make even better in yourself.
Whether you want to believe this or not, MOST people are driven to "be better"... It just might not look the way we expected... or in the case of your H, he may just not be ready to work on some tough stuff...
Maybe he will, maybe he won't... pointing out the WAS failings is not ours to own or harbour...
If I had to mindread I'd guess he doesn't even know what it is he has to work on. Didn't you know he's perfect just as he is?
Today he told me he got an apartment and would start sleeping there this week. I said "great!" when he told me this. A few hours later and I haven't even felt a drop of sadness over that.
He wanted to talk tonight and I said that didn't work for me. I went out for a little bit and he cornered me when i got back saying that he wanted to talk bc I don't answer his phone calls and am slow to respond to emails if I do at all. Bottom line he's still trying to rush a house listing before we've got a property settlement. He argues in tantrum form ("we didn't have any problem BUYING the house before we were married so I don't see how it is any different to sell it after now.")
I reiterated that I wasn't going to rush a major decision just bc he felt pressure now that he's signed a lease.
Today I went to a group exercise class by myself for the first time (usually go with a friend). I skimmed through some more books on recovering from co-dependency to see if I wanted to buy them. I have another group ex class that i'm working into my weekly routine. I have also been working on how to be a more caring and attentive friend to some of my posse going through highs and lows right now. I see how, partly due to illness, depression, and lack of awareness/skills, I was not the best friend to people in the past. The feeling I get now from true unconditional giving is new and wonderful. I sulk continue to do more of this.
I think you're doing pretty good so far, vera. I just went back to your original request for a BOOTCAMP thread:
Originally Posted By: vera be fierce
I would like some help keeping the focus on myself. I've been working on some fitness goals and GAL a lot (and had been well before BD as I'd recovered from a long-term illness). I feel better than I have in years. But now we are moving toward selling the house and it's hitting me really hard. I also work in the legal profession so the symbolism of D is very salient to me.
I did want to touch on a couple things that may keep the focus ON YOU:
Originally Posted By: vera be fierce
Today he told me he got an apartment and would start sleeping there this week. I said "great!" when he told me this. A few hours later and I haven't even felt a drop of sadness over that.
What meaning does the bolded part above have, for you?
Originally Posted By: vera be fierce
He wanted to talk tonight and I said that didn't work for me.
Why did it not work, for you? What was your intention, when you told him it didn't work? ie. What explanation would you have given him that was honest and truthful?
Originally Posted By: vera be fierce
I went out for a little bit and he cornered me when i got back saying that he wanted to talk bc I don't answer his phone calls and am slow to respond to emails if I do at all.
Why do you not answer his phone calls? Why are you slow to respond to emails? Have you NOT responded to emails? Why?
Originally Posted By: vera be fierce
I reiterated that I wasn't going to rush a major decision just bc he felt pressure now that he's signed a lease.
You explain that you WON'T rush a decision? That is good, one should do due diligence. What I found interesting is that rather than indicating due diligence, your mention it's because of pressure from your H. Are you resisting what you feel as pressure from your H or is there some other productive, positive reason for holding off? ie. What POSITIVE work towards making this major decision, are you doing?
Today he told me he got an apartment and would start sleeping there this week. I said "great!" when he told me this. A few hours later and I haven't even felt a drop of sadness over that.
What meaning does the bolded part above have, for you?
Great was just the first thing that popped out of my mouth. It definitely threw him off. I think the latter part indicated that, at least for one day, I wasn't on the roller coaster.
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He wanted to talk tonight and I said that didn't work for me.
Why did it not work, for you? What was your intention, when you told him it didn't work? ie. What explanation would you have given him that was honest and truthful?
it was saturday and I didn't want to ruin what had been an enjoyable and relaxing day by talking finances.
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I went out for a little bit and he cornered me when i got back saying that he wanted to talk bc I don't answer his phone calls and am slow to respond to emails if I do at all.
Why do you not answer his phone calls? Why are you slow to respond to emails? Have you NOT responded to emails? Why?
He only calls me about D-related things. I am slow with emails because I have been keeping dim for months now. I used to not respond to emails that he sent after BD such as newsletter forwards or links to tshirts he thinks are funny. If he leaves me a voicemail or text on a matter that is urgent, I respond appropriately. Otherwise, it's not a priority for me like it used to be.
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I reiterated that I wasn't going to rush a major decision just bc he felt pressure now that he's signed a lease.
You explain that you WON'T rush a decision? That is good, one should do due diligence. What I found interesting is that rather than indicating due diligence, your mention it's because of pressure from your H. Are you resisting what you feel as pressure from your H or is there some other productive, positive reason for holding off? ie. What POSITIVE work towards making this major decision, are you doing?
I didn't post a complete recap of this here like I did on my other thread. My first response (and second and third...) was that I need to know financially where I will stand as of the D before I can make an informed decision on the house. I mentioned the not responding bc of his pressure only after repeatedly starting that point. I am resisting his pressure only to the extent that my needs (full financial settlement disclosure and agreement) have not yet been met. I have had my financial info ready for at least a month. I am saving every penny and betting my ducks in a row for a refi, including liking into loans from my retirement acct and family. He has gone on all kinds of leisure trips and vacations this summer and did not start gathering his info until this Saturday. Now he's realizing he has to request archived statements etc and that takes additional time.
hope that helps to clarify how it went down a little better.
Something i'm going to work on now is asking friends how they are doing before I start talking about myself. I just stopped myself from leading a conversation about something I did this weekend and instead asked someone what they'd been up to. i want to be less selfish in that regard.
Haha, hey now, i'm not saying I never asked them before. I've just been bad at doing it through this situation.
The dim on some level is still protection for me. It gives me a chance to ponder my response without firing off a quick response based on emotion (i have resigned as the queen of smartmouth comebacks). I would actually say I've been slightly more responsive recently as I've gotten my head in a better place and i'm not as concerned about how he will respond.
Today I looked up a few more mortgage brokers to call this week for quotes. I will start that tomorrow. This will help me feel better about being informed and ready to pull the trigger when the time comes.
(jk)