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Jks

I'm going on a trip soon so I'll have to brief and don't want you to think I dropped off the face of the earth.


just a few notes...I LOVE your insights. The whole housework thing is interesting to me b/c as a Lawyer and a poor housekeeper myself I've used my "genius" as a reason for not being so organized.

My point is, some of this is perspective but you are right to identify when things are "too messy" b/c then we're out of control. When h was in the height of his MLC, he lost things that were really important like IRS letters.

WTH? That was after decades of meticulous absurdly detailed record keeping...

So, That was new and NOT cool. But it pointed out to me, that HE was different so I had to pick up the slack. Sooo not fun. But necessary.

Anyhow, I'm sorry about the troubles with D6. Have you had her tested for personality issues AND OR being gifted? That is not always the gift it seems to be...but she may, MAY need some therapy or meds...

doesn't hurt to test her and you can always say "no thanks" to the MDs.

** Learning to apologize...huge saving gift for marriages. Do what you can. Learn to see an apology as a sign of strength and not as weakness and if and when your h apologizes to you


never take advantage of it to attack him more. I think that's the big fear we have when we know we "ought" to apologize. Somehow we fear the other person will jump on us and say "A HA!! Proof that you are a bad guy" and it's not likely at all. Even if it did happen, after an apology, would you really reasonably agree??

I think you're on the right track. As for GOALS

I'd suggest you get really specific, if only internally, with what you want and need from your h

as to how he can "prove" you are his priority. Be specific but reasonable.

I say I'd love to tell my h to quit his job to prove his devotion, but would i really?

H does good work for very injured people, and makes good money...so what is it I really want from him?

Some way for ME to feel that, IF HE HAD TO, which he does not,

he'd give it up for us. Does that make sense to you?

Also I'd get specific goals about the housework. Just b/c he works for money does not make you solely responsible for all housework. Does he help?

Can you afford to hire someone? IF YOU WORKED MORE, could you?

I have to tell you this--once I was earning money, I hired a housekeeper. At first it was once a month, then every 2 weeks and sometimes more. Now it's back to once a month. What a GODSEND!

Now, I am not embarrassed to have company show up unannounced. and I LOVE having a clean bathroom. I love my home more...and I can tell h likes coming home to it, more.

As for what I learned growing up, my mother did her best BUT my mom had 9 kids in 12 years

and all I remember her doing, was cleaning/mopping floors or changing diapers. I did not want her life.

So I totally went for "the career" and I get where you are coming from/ no woman could manage what my mother was apparently expected to do and my father worked hard, at HIS JOB, but not at home...
So I hired someone to help us and you know

The housekeeper reduced our household conflict by about 80%...seriously.


If that's not worth having a job for, what is?

Just food for thought - and until you CAN afford it, it's just an idea. But if you can,

give it real thought.

IN retrospect, On a daily basis, (aside from OW) what did you two feel bad about or fight about? How did your self esteem get affected by a messy house?

So, you clearly have some gifts of creativity. Once you harness those gifts might it make more sense for you to use them to create harmony in your life, including hiring someone who knows how the heck to clean things and to make you feel more financially secure?

it's not ALL due to your back ground OR IF it is, there are other options...

One of my sisters is a total slob, and another one is a professional organizer! (Gee, no pattern there...)

being a lousy housekeeper is not the worst trait in the world. And you are working on what is important.

How about your GAL and your goals for it?


what's new in that arena?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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From a lousy housekeeper: I've been enjoying these posts. smile


Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway
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The best thing that could have ever come out of this is that I LOVE MYSELF!!! I truly do. It makes me cry just thinking about it. I have struggled with my self-worth for so long and I'm so happy to finally be able to see the beauty and strength from within me.

Wow...



Quote:
I am not going to pursue any longer. I want this man to work for me. I feel like I am a damn fine catch and he really is losing something wonderful, including a wonderful connection, in me that he will always regret if he truly chooses OW over me. He is a good man. I felt like I could see into his soul last night. We stared at each other for a long time. There's a lot to be said in just staring into a person's eyes. There's an energy that runs between the two of you that is undeniable.


These are good posts JKS.

I asked you in a previous post what in will take for him to win you back? You dont have to post it here, just make sure you knowin your heart mind what it will take for him to win your trust again.
A soft rejection from you will be a good test on how he responds.

I love your mindset currently.
He may have what it takes to work on the R, He may also be using you as a fall back plan. Until he has completely ended it with OW, you should continue to live as you were D.

Be prepared for either outcome and you'll be fine.


Bomb 8/09. Brief piecing 12/10. D-2/12
Two incredible kids D9,S6 Leading new life!
“Success is not to be pursued; it is to be attracted by the person we become."
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why test him with a soft rejection?

It's fine to be cautious, she's be nuts not to be. But she herself is trying to show change in how SHE acts with him.

How does pushing him away get him closer?

Maybe it's semantics? Maybe we mean the same thing, but the word "test" and "rejection" bother me.

I think it's awfully easy to slide into being punitive when we "test" our spouses.

Food for thought.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,511
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this thread will lock SOON


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,502
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JKS,

Thanks for the kind words, I really appreciate it. I'm really proud of your current outlook, you're so far away from where you started and I think that's really great, because it's been an impossibly tough road. WRT your alt question, I answered it if you look back in your thread. I do think you're getting some great advice from 25, she's been around a long time and tells it like it is. 25, I'm glad you're here.

Accuray


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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25,
I don't want to see JKS bite at the first attempt from her H, especially if he is just using words.

eg. H says "I think we should go out sometime"
If he says this and he's still with OW then its not the right time for JKS to agree.

Using the phrase " I don't know how I feel about that"
has a tremendous affect on the WAS.

Sorry if these words bother you.

There are too many cases where the LBS take back the WAS too quickly.
The LBS want the M back more than anything and are blinded by it. They need to truly know the WAS is committed to the R.

I stand by the soft rejection b/c I experienced it.
If you would like to call it "Make the WAS work for it" that's OK. wink


Bomb 8/09. Brief piecing 12/10. D-2/12
Two incredible kids D9,S6 Leading new life!
“Success is not to be pursued; it is to be attracted by the person we become."
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To be honest, I don't think my H would ever want to go out with me while he's still dating/sleeping with OW. I actually made that very clear to him when I first found out about the PA that I wouldn't do anything with him whether it was a family thing or just a couples thing until he had completely ended things with her. He told me, "fair enough."

Also, a month ago when he was telling me how he was trying to find the best time to end things with OW, he told me that he didn't think he could fully commit to me until that relationship has ended. So, I think H and I both get what needs to happen as far as that goes.

But, yes, I do need to really figure out what it is that I specifically want to see in him in order for this R to work for ME. I picked up my kids from him yesterday and my feelings around him had significantly changed. Meaning, I wasn't as confident about the way things were going. The pit in my stomach returned and I had some major anxiety. I kept thinking how insecure I feel around him right now because he's so obviously torn.

Why is he torn? Because he found someone that he truly enjoys being with. He feels ashamed about her because of the way they got together but if all of that was pushed aside or if they were given more time to let it ride out, maybe H would really be happy going that route. He's still so worried that he'll never feel the same about me that he did so long ago. I never mentioned this before, but the night we had our appt, H did say that sometimes he just wishes he could go back 5 years. FIVE YEARS!!! That threw me back for a minute when he said it because I had no idea he was really that unhappy for that long!

Yesterday I was starting to feel his uncertainty and I don't know that it was really anything he did, it was just the reality of it all. The anxiety of losing him was starting to set in all over again and I left his house feeling like I was at square one AGAIN.

The good thing is that I recover more quickly now. And I did not try to contact him to talk about it, thank heavens!! I come here and I read my past posts and reflect back on the turn of events and just try to be ok. No matter what. I'm ok. I don't want to lose him but I want him to want it just as much as I do.

When I made the joke the other day about how I'm the best W in the world... (which obviously, I'm not) but I really do think that H is quite lucky in the fact that I have stood by his side throughout this disaster. It is not easy to see the good in someone that is treating you like this on a regular basis. Yet, I choose to take the higher ground.

I will not be oblivious, but I will be faithful until my heart tells me I am done. I write this now, because in a couple of weeks I may feel differently... LOL! I was talking with a friend today and I told her, the reality of it is, this really could take another three months. Do I have it in me to endure that long? Wow, who knows. But then again, probably. What's another three months, right? (sigh)

25, you asked me about GAL activities... I have my kids quite a bit so I basically make plans to do things everyday with them. And I very often will call my friends with kids to have playdates with us. The days that I don't have my kids, I'm working on my photography. I'm building a new website with the help of a friend and I'm trying to get that together so I can get it launched.

I do also make it a point to work out as much as I can because I need the interaction with new people (I almost always go to the classes the gym offers) and I love the way it makes me feel. If you have other suggestions of things you think I should try... I'm game to hear them. smile

Also, you asked if H helped out around the house... um, the answer is a big fat YES. He did everything. He is very much like his mom. He just wants it to get done, so he just does it... which is why I say he enabled me.

You also asked me what it was that H and I fought about on a daily basis, I'm guessing you meant when we were living together?? I wouldn't ever say that we fought a lot. In fact, we both agree that we didn't really fight a lot at all. (H did mention at one point a couple months ago that the reason for that was because of him. Because he would just accept my terrible behavior and not really say anything. Blows my mind how people can live that way.) So I would just say that we didn't really have fun together. We didn't go out together and when we did it was usually the same old dinner and a movie. I was feeling the distance with him just as much.

For example, we went to H's aunt's cabin two years ago and they had jet skis there. Since H and I don't really do anything recreational together (I am mostly to blame for this) there was a point where H and I decided to ride the jet ski together and I drove so he was sitting behind me. It felt weird. Usually you would be totally comfortable with that type of thing with your H but it just made me realize how our connection was diminishing. I wanted it to be fun and I wanted to feel that attraction to him but all I felt was emptiness.

Looking back, though, I don't think I took it as a huge warning sign... but I should have. And the reason I say that we didn't do anything recreational together is because H would ask me and I would quickly decline because I've always felt like it just wasn't my thing. For instance, he's a runner. I have no endurance when it comes to running and never have. I tried running with him long ago and he left me in the dust and I lasted about 5 min. How fun is that? So I never wanted to do it again with him.

Now I'm realizing that I don't necessarily need to run in order to go out and do something active with him. This last winter I tried to get us both ski passes so that we could go once a week with each other because I do actually really enjoy skiing and he LOVES snowboarding... so what better way for us to try to reconnect. But time and time again our money situation just couldn't make that happen. He was surprisingly very much on board with it though.

Which brings me to another point... our money issues. (gosh, our issues don't ever end, do they??) We never have any money!! So to plan any kind of vacation or any type of getaway was always a huge stressor for us because we just couldn't afford it. Even now with both of us living with our parents and not having a mortgage payment, we are still broke. It's weird. We're just awful at managing our money, I guess.

We need to get professional help in this area... and I am constantly on the fence of whether I should get a job or not. I don't necessarily want to put my kids in daycare (way too expensive for three little kids and totally complicated when the school year starts). And I could see myself being more willing to get a job if H and I lived together again because we could make it work where I would try to work while he's home during the days. But trying to do all of that while being separated and finagling the kids back and forth, back and forth on a daily basis is just too much for me.

If I knew we were over and I would have to deal with him that often... I would be miserable.


Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.


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Quote:
Also, a month ago when he was telling me how he was trying to find the best time to end things with OW, he told me that he didn't think he could fully commit to me until that relationship has ended. So, I think H and I both get what needs to happen as far as that goes.

Interesting, he can go with this OW while still with you but needs to "officially end it with her"
That doesnt compute.

JKS youre back sliding now. You're letting your feelings and emotions interfere with your goal.

What makes you happy?

Why was your H attracted to you?

Start thining your way through this,.

Lead with your thoughts.

Are you prepared for either outcome?


Bomb 8/09. Brief piecing 12/10. D-2/12
Two incredible kids D9,S6 Leading new life!
“Success is not to be pursued; it is to be attracted by the person we become."
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Posts: 13,511
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hey not to nag but this is the longest thread I've seen go, in years.

They usually cut them off and lock them at around 10 pages or 100 posts...so you may want to think about starting a new one with a recognizble title easy for us to find.

i have more to say but am pressed for time.

Also, I think if you read this past post of yours you will see a pattern in your choices. You were sort of benignly neglecting and downright rejecting him in some areas but you still SEEM to excuse it.

I think you are digging deep though, and you'll get somewhere great with this journey.

As for how long you can do this, see MY timeline in my signature block please.

At one point my sil asked me what the big deal was to rush into a div decision. She had a point b/c he was gone. No tension...

But I had an internal timeline of my older d graduating from high school. That was a total of 2 years from h first leaving to when I'd want to be out of limbo. I needed to know there was a light at the end of the tunnel.

Meanwhile there was some stability for the girls and I and we stayed in our house.

If ANY of that applies, great.

((( )))


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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