Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 14 of 15 1 2 12 13 14 15
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
~
~ kd ~ Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
~
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
Geeze, have you been sheltered all your life, zig? grin

Remember, back in the day when we had real music, like the Scorpions... and the Clash? lol... Aside from the hard core southern rock, that was the music and style (well, not so punk) that I was into.

Banger being a head banger (Scorpions, Blue Oyster Cult, Black Sabbath) and skater being skate boarding and trick bikes (The Clash, Ramones, Sex Pistols) and southern rock styles like Ted Nuggent, Uriah Heap, Steppenwolf, Deep Purple.

Yeah, that was me. Fast cars, hard parties, loose wom... err... livin' easy and free. That was me. cool

When I met my W, I was out of that lifestyle for a while, although still part of me. I think part of what attracted her to me was that raw edginess. When we got M, I took on a more professional attitude, the Steve Jobs type. It worked for me, but I was never the financial success that my outward appearance portrayed. I think it worked well for my customers, and THOUGHT that my W liked the look. When we separated, I moved even further towards that look.

It IS me, but it really doesn't show the edges of me.

Honestly, that style and who I was back in those early days of my life scared me. I realized I was facing a choice of being an alcoholic and getting in too close with the really bad scene / crowd... and stepping out and being more of an upstanding, respectable, professional life.

I talked above in my previous posts in a very cold, analytical way. Well, yes the emotions showed through, but it was otherwise unemotional language. I am who I am, without a doubt, but while my Myers Briggs had me at INTJ, I actually think I'm more a ENTJ. I suspect that my emotional detachment may have been a result of being raised by alcoholics. So in my secret identity, I was a thoughtful, loving kid who did a lot of tinkering and thinking and reading and stuff, in my real me, I was a social butterfly who lived on the edge and had dark thoughts and used bad language... really bad... vulgar language... lol...

When I opened up to my W, I was already relearning to be emotionally safe and wear my heart on my sleeve. She probably was also drawn to this sensitive side of me. And I was probably slipping deep into getting into enjoying the love and connection with someone having not really, deeply felt that in my life. Maybe never really comfortable "in my skin", I likely over compensated. I had little, prior practice in that area. Of course, as a child, that was still when a man needed to be a man.

Any who... now that I have a blue collar job and am probably going to career down that path, I'm thinking about being more of my old, what I believe is more real, self and show it on the outside. I was generally a short sleeve, skin tight T-shirt and worn ratty jeans kind of guy. But I thought I'd edge it up a bit for my public appearances with my W... loose muscle shirts, knee length cargo pants, and canvas sneakers.

When I started rolling the "connection" ball, I told my W that I had a job. I had no idea what else I could talk to her about that would not seem like I was pursuing her. When she responded, saying that it was good that I had a job, that I would feel so much better about myself (esteem) and that I would get out of the house which would really help me (depression remedies), I realized she really has no clue who I am and what I've been doing with myself...

So I let her know some of the stuff that I'd been doing to GAL, going out with friends, to the bars, the gym, etc. And also, the people I met there who she knows (some of her side of the family). I had thought when I met those people, they'd have let her know. I'm starting to think that I am such a touchy subject, that no one dares to bring me up in convo with her.

Again anyhow, that led me to some ideas of what to talk to her about that was not "US" related. The entire convo is light and friendly. Chatty like old friends. I did bring up some sombre stuff about the kids, especially D9, but again kept it very non-emotional between the two of us.

She is totally into the convo. She's not sharing anything about herself, but she is at least getting a glimmer into my life that I am doing fine, thank you very much, and enjoying my life and looking at the future that really has nothing to do with her. Not exclusive, but certainly NOT inclusive.

So I am having fun with this and yes, hair removal... As far as I know I have no Mediterranean ancestry, but that doesn't seem to be what my legs and chest hair says... grin I figure this summer I can do the whole shave the body thing and go to the beach and get pictures of me in my hairless, oiled body with a couple beach babes... lol...

Anyone know how I can bruise my neck in the shape of a hicky...?

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
Z
zig Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
actually i was - growing up KD - i'm a sweet little parsee girl from bombay, who never left the house alone , even to catch the school bus until i was almost 15!. also i went to a catholic convent boarding school until 6th grade - and no, it wasn't at all what may come to mind.

i didn't come to the states until i was 18 - and i was in quite different crowd in high school - reggae, rock , pot smoking and chilling out. drugs were not cool. no actually, i was so studious and serious (in india when i was growing up, fun was not exactly what we did to move forward - it was study study study) . so the stories h would tell me of the kind of stuff he did growing up sort of freaked me out. (that's not to say i haven't done a few wild things, but from what i hear from others around here - it was a different sort of wild)

i read your post earlier and then went to do a knitting job that is calm and quiet so had time to think and my first response to what you had written got sort of lost in what came up while i was sitting quietly.

some things to think about - and maybe you already have? if you're going back to the raw edginess thing with the look and lifestyle that goes with it, before you jump in , you may want to think about the reasons why you are doing so.

as you pointed out you've been more the professional steve jobs style all these years. and now, when you are talking about possibly having a mini-mlc yourself - i find it really interesting that your thoughts go to possibly mimicking a period in your life which was what?


Fast cars, hard parties, loose wom... err... livin' easy and free. That was me.

so step back here for a bit and take a look at that, and see what you are really after or avoiding...

then after the above, you talk about the emotion thing and staying analytical and sort of cool and then about growing up with your alcoholic parents and how it probably influenced you to be that way.

i don't know if you're seeing what i'm seeing here, kd, but since i've obviously decided to have carte blanche lately with my observations here goes:

i think your mind is well on the slope into mlc in some way. you''ve got some unresolved issues to deal with from growing up - which were repressed during that safe period of the easy and free life. then you got out of that life, met wife and were able to be emotionally available and open in ways that left you feeling safe on the surface , but deeply vulnerable underneath. you sabotaged your situation by not being able to really trust that life was giving you that gift and that you were truly safe in it (sub-consciously), because you had never learned to trust when you were a child because of what you had to live with.

so then wife does what you expect deep down everyone in your world would always do. and then you try to be really brave for a very long time and strong, but then it gets a bit too much, and hey - you can always retreat back to that other safe time in your life with the

Fast cars, hard parties, loose wom... err... livin' easy and free. That was me.

in some way - symbolically?

and if you do that what do you avoid? doing the rest of the work? from where i'm standing the rest of the work for you involves truly learning to trust, and that means resolving some deep-seated heavy [censored] that you have kept inside you since you were very young - and that if you even peeped at it, it would come running at you and drown you before you could even steel yourself

and now to continue my bluntness - so is there any other way to do this?

we talk about our spouses in MLC and why can't they step out of it and get down to the business of living life as they really should - can't they see where they are headed and stop themselves? is the slope so slippery that once you step on it the momentum just propels you forward and you go with it unwittingly? is there ANOTHER way to deal with all that stuff, so that it results in one making the shift in a direct more emotionally functional way?

it's very interesting for me that we are talking about this - because of my own experiences growing up and finally recognizing my lack of trust in the world and how that really influenced how i did and saw things. and because of what i've watched h go through.

you know he did sort of a similar thing - he returned to a "happy period" in his life before he met me and kid and responsibilities took over. he did it literally - to the same place , got a motorbike, like he had back then, and ow is the sister of one of his closest friends during that period - and lives there. hows that for reliving the past.

and to top it off - he was completely and utterly aware of it, admitted it to me, and insisted that even though he sort of knew what was happening he was just going to keep doing it!!

so the awareness is there on some level - but the crossroads one is at, at that moment before taking the plunge - is that one that the person can make a conscious choice about or is this the only way to truly resolve what needs to be resolved?

i don't know if i'm way off base here, but i don't think so. the similarities were a bit glaring and that's what came rushing at me. whether you can turn this around, or if you even want to - that's up to you, and i think you kind of already know that, right?

hopefully if you can, you haven't put razor to skin yet or you are going to feel a bit goofy walking around with a fake hicky and no hair GRIN!!!

(((( ))) while i duck as you throw the pans at me for making you really look at what you are doing!!

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
Z
zig Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
ps.

forgot to answer your most important question. i believe if you use some sort of suction cup type of thing and make a really strong suction and leave it there for - hmm let's see , how long DOES it take to give a hicky? 5 mins, 10 mins - you should be good to go.

remember - do what works - so if the 5 mins doesn't work, try 10, or 15

ducking again...


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
~
~ kd ~ Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
~
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
oh, I'm sure there are some... stories you could tell that were wild, even for bombay... lol...

Yes, your food for thought is definitely on target.

There are two thing and two things only that are important in my life. D9 and D14. And for them, I will always remain solid and responsible.

I have no intention to reverting back to my teens and early twenties. I am building a solid foundation for my future and that of my kids and any other who might come along.

What I forgot in my M was that the surface does not define the soul. I allowed the perceptions of others to determine who I became. They did not cause it. I tried to be it. Just like I tried to be the person my parents and grand parents wanted me to be to some degree.

So I actually believe that I'm not looking for a time machine. I know who I am and where I am. I'm simply putting my pieces back together...

cool

no, the hair thing and all that. Just for chits and giggles... I'm not worried about my bald spot and the grey in my side burns and the hair on my ear lobes and the flabby bottom and bi-focals I'll probably need within the next year... wink The tattoo that I might get? It's gonna be an airbrushed stencil... lol... No permanent tats for me! grin

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
Z
zig Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
whew!

glad i got it wrong;)

That was quite the diatribe on my part! was just making sure, ya know...

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
~
~ kd ~ Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
~
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
never assume that I know what I'm doing or saying, zig... grin

I figure if I'm questioning myself all the time, everyone else should be entitled to, as well... lol

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
Z
zig Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
hey - you're playing ?

what are the rules?

so when are you going to find out? meaning about what you're doing or saying?

hmm - the convo shifted - i realized that the thing that's coming to the surface for me in the last few days is a new unfamiliar feeling of "lostness". i'm this different person now, and i don't really know what i want to do with my life - who i want to be.maybe that's why i'm coming here to poke and prod you , hoping as i write and you reply something will come out of that that helps me see the way.

maybe that's the new fear to deal with in our ditches - as we let the spouses go, suddenly there's this big empty unfamiliar space -uggh what fills that?

part of me is fighting going into a depression over it.

is that what happened to you in some way?

oh BIG FAT GRIN - left the ditches for you on purpose!!!

cheers
zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
~
~ kd ~ Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
~
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
Would it be Saraswati or Ganesha who is smiling down on you, these days? wink

Yes, I am playing.

The game is called, "Do something different".

The rules
+ Do something different.
+ It can't be the same thing you've done before.

How to play
+ Do something different.
+ Observe the results and compare to past results.
+ There are no pawns in this game.
+ Do something different and observe both the changes in yourself AND the changes in anyone around you who may have been touched or affected in some way directly by this change.
+ The change should be consistent for at least a period of two weeks.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am getting results, already. But it CAN take days or even weeks to see results.

Originally Posted By: zig
i realized that the thing that's coming to the surface for me in the last few days is a new unfamiliar feeling of "lostness".


And there she creeps in with that wise eye. cool

When ever something different is part of our experience, we will feel... many feelings, such as confusion, anxiety, vertigo, cognitive dissonance, even deep fear, and anger...

Yes, lost. If you can't loose yourself, why would you ever need to find yourself? You'd never be lost, you'd always be right where you put yourself.

Don't fear the depression, know it is coming. For once it appears, you will know it for what it is, and you can move through it. Learning and taking in as much knowledge and wisdom that it is offering. And MOVE. MOVE THROUGH IT and out again.

The difference being, you know what it is. It has a face and a name.

Poke away, we are all here on the same journey. To find ourselves again, right where we left ourselves. But with new wisdom gained, because we moved through it.

This is our transition. We never expected it, yet we created it. When in transition, we are lost. And we may have no idea where we will come out.

That... I think... is where the fear stems, from depression...

So... people in MLC or chronic depression, stay in the depression if they can... because as scary and empty as it is, it's familiar and warm and embracing (self soothing occurs in depression) and the outside world is scary...

But... we can't stay in depression forever... eventually we pop out, as it churns... we can either step out... or wait for the next churn to put ourselves back into it's arms...

~~~~~~

Yes, I am playing a game of "Do something different."

Because I'm not afraid of being lost and what I might find on the other side...

~~~~~~~~~~~~

ooooo..... time for a pull of that brandy... lol...

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
Z
zig Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
it's whiskey for me, and i think i'll have one in a few minutes, myself. Cheers KD!

you're the wise one here - but then you've been there..

i'll play this game - i like the rules

as for the depression - well - i'll move through it as you say - not much other choice is there, for us?

oh and i don't think it's just one goddess smiling down - the whole universe has my back - i KNOW it, but old habits die hard and so it's not always that i stay completely in that trust place, but it's getting more frequent everyday


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
~
~ kd ~ Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
~
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
At the end of this day, I just wanted to put a reminder here for myself that I am assuming that my W wants a connection with me.

As I mentioned earlier, I otherwise would not expect any comm from my W until about July 5. She is going to her weekend, outdoor concert tomorrow and so any contact that we've had yesterday and today will likely stop.

IF she wants connection with me, I have no idea how that might look, for her. And this is about her, from her perspective, if there is any possibility that I can see through her eyes.

From the comm that I have received back, I get the jist that she wants me to continue to be a good dad to the kids and also that I "get myself together". Again, that's paraphrased, but appears to be the message.

Not sure, the above I do not think is what she wants FROM me, as much as what she wants FOR me or FOR the kids. Nothing really has been said that might allude to what she wants FROM me nor what might fill her heart. Or maybe those things would fill her heart... so those things might actually be for HER, FROM me...

Well, probably have a week to think more about this. I also have no other ideas what to talk to her about. She has said nothing about herself in this comm. Although in more recent comm she has talked about her mom's cancer treatment. She is still very, very closed about herself.

Page 14 of 15 1 2 12 13 14 15

Moderated by  Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard