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~ kd ~ Offline OP
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WTH?! crazy

So I just get an email from a friend. Apparently now there is a rumour running around our lovely little town that my W and I split up because I was selling drugs out of the house...

hunh? I must not have been very good at it... at least according to my bank account or wallet... lol...

And according to this same source of rumour heard, my W has lost a significant amount of weight...

ummmm.... I honestly did not notice... she appears to be wearing the same clothes she's owned for the past 2 years...

I'm a guy, I have no idea if that means anything... can a woman have lost a lot of weight and still wear the same clothing?

OK... goal time, I think:

+ increased contact with W
+ increased openness with W regarding my life (only if asked)
+ continue to decline participating in social gatherings with W
+ continue to stay focused on myself and my life and my kids
+ ...

I swear... if my W keeps offering opinions about how my life will be better now that I have a job and am getting out more and how this is "good for me" and offering to make things "easier" for me...

*sigh*

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zig Offline
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okay - kD - i just read the last few pages, and skimmed through your older threads.

here's a 2 x 4 for you:

You are CONSUMED BY RESISTANCE!

it emanates in every word you write through all your threads. if you are wondering why you are irritated with your wife's overtures to be friendly - it is because you are still enveloped in hurt and anger deep deep down. that's what i see.

here's a thought: if your wife is indeed in mlc, she is mirroring your own lack of growth.

there is much written on these boards about how the lbs can influence the mlc sitch by working on their own growth. that it is the only way a possible positive influence can come out of the situation.

i simply don't see you assuming the good on any level. you are very analytical - to the point of being emotionless, and that points to me as a lot of repression of your own real feelings.

the reason you cannot find an answer to dbmod's question is because of that. you have set up a wall as you said (put yourself in a vacuum), and with that wall there, there is no way you can begin to tell what she may need.

your own physical/emotional response of falling asleep when trying to find the answer points to a really high level of stress and it makes me wonder if you are already in a crisis in some way.

your posts are still all about what she is doing/saying and you are reacting to everything. you're hurting bad KD, and it's time to admit it to yourself, so that you can start the process of real healing. it can only begin when you fully acknowledge the deep deep hurt that you have felt from before you walked away.

i think part of your defensive stance is also anger at yourself for leaving and moving out, and maybe some regret. start with yourself - forgive yourself first and work through why you did it. then acknowledge your continuing hurt and work through that.. as you do so, you will find that as you forgive yourself there will be a little space created and if you allow it, it will fill with love, and the more you heal the more those spaces will fill with love.

i know it may sound goofy to you - but if you start assuming the good in your wife, your own irritation and frustration will gently fall away and in it's place will come what needs to come. right now is not the time to focus on whether or NOT you want to be with her - right now is the time to focus on just bringing positive feelings into the sitch.

i have found with h that in spite of him leaving, he still mirrors me. when i was cool and withdrawn he did the same. now when i have really done a 180 and started being warm and open he is starting to do the same.

do a 180 here and even if you don't feel like it, ACT AS IF - and just start being warm and open and friendly. don't worry about what it may or may not lead to or what you may or may not want. just do it as an experiment say for 1 month and see where it takes you. you need more compassion in your heart - and you have to nurture it and bring it out into the open (it's there already, just hasn't been used in a long time)

this is where i want to add that all that i have said has been said in a very gentle tone. i am not trying to talk you into loving and wanting your w again. when i read what you wrote about the convo with your d8, i felt so sad. even in the worst of our sitches, i would hope that the kids could still feel the basic love that their parents feel towards each other for just creating their children (which never goes away, but often gets so buried under the hurt and anger). so give your d this gift - allow the warm feelings to surface in some way , they will make a huge difference for all of you.

as for all your descriptions about your wife and what you are assuming that she is feeling /thinking from her actions. Bullshit!! (ok - that wasn't gentle!!) as far as i can tell from your descriptions - she is just being withdrawn and defensive - mirroring what you are doing - and there's no way that you can assume all that stuff!! (ooh how am i doing here, can i get more presumptuous at telling you off? grin)

to me it sounds like you take every tiny thing she says or does as justification to yourself that what you are doing and the decisions you made are right. it's almost as if you are looking for them.

and the last thing i want to say - reading through your earlier threads - i think you got too much support for taking the stand that you did. some were trying to tell you to soften your perspective but many were sort of cheering you on. i think you are very confused about what you really want, just like we all are, because the hurt is so bad and so deep, and that has influenced so much of what you are doing and feeling now.

i think i better stop now:) because after what i wrote you probably won't ever speak to me again, but i hope it's the opposite and it propels you into moving into a better more loving place for yourself.

you've got to find the love in yourself again before you can receive it from others (even your wife), and when you do - it's really beautiful and it changes everything around you for the better

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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~ kd ~ Offline OP
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You are absolutely correct in your analysis, zig. cool

That's the reason for at least attempting this one, last effort to see what might be salvaged.

My emotions (regarding my W) had become so raw, it shows obviously in my last few posts, and this specific thread, on how I am simply closed off emotionally from her and wanting to move on without her.

The rest of my life is fairly decent, rebuilding my self esteem, getting back to work (a job), having fun with friends and building my relationships with my kids...

I have specifically created this vacuum around myself, regarding my W. And I just don't want to touch it right now, as yes... it does still hurt... badly.

It is rare for me to do this. I forgive very easily. I have had many occasions with friends or business associates who have burned me and I found myself forgiving them (myself) within a few months or weeks and retaining the relationship.

This one was big and involves many, many people. I think that's why it is taking me so long to recover. It's not just me and my W (even thought that is really who it is about). It is her family, my family, our mutual friends, and even people within the small community such as the rumour above that I was selling drugs out of the house. The community consists of about 6 to 10 thousand people and we all pretty much know each other in some way. Being fairly public figures (me having lived there most of my life), we are prone to be subjects of this rumour mill.

I know that I could very easily "want" this. The separation, the strictly separate lives, eventually divorce. I know that I'll open up again, fully. At some point in the future.

OTOH, as much as I hurt, I would still be willing to see if we can make our M work. This is no longer said from a needy, desperate perspective. Rather from the open mindedness of someone who (I want to believe) has enough humility to admit that I played my own part in this breakdown.

On the surface, I do not know if I am ready for this change in behaviour for me. Yet, I know any time is a good time for change and while time can help make change easier, it's also OK to nudge ourselves forward, even if we think we aren't ready.

Risk - we never fully live until we are prepared to risk everything to create a better future, when the accomplishment is worth it for us.

I am going to struggle, stumble and fall through this. Beginner's mind - that is OK. Just going through this process will develop or at least exercise a skill which I don't use or use very rarely.

Thanks for your feedback, zig. smile

You are brave... wink

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Both great posts.


Risk - we never fully live until we are prepared to risk everything to create a better future, when the accomplishment is worth it for us.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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zig Offline
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shite KD - i spent a seriously sleepless night over what i wrote to you. all i could think was - there i go again, impulsively saying what i really think - which always got me into trouble before - so i am so relieved that you took it the right way.

I have specifically created this vacuum around myself, regarding my W. And I just don't want to touch it right now, as yes... it does still hurt... badly.

that is completely your choice - KD - and you are justified in choosing to do it this way. but might i point out that this is the EXACT stand every WAS takes and stays in? in fact you couldn't have put it more succinctly.

brit and ss wrote some interesting things this morning on brit's thread - as you yourself did earlier. unfortunately, when there's any kind of emotion still present it's not over. not until there's indifference

I know that I'll open up again, fully. At some point in the future.

once again the WAS stand - that's why DB keeps telling us to be patient - because it is clear that deep down the WAS knows that they will want to come back - they just don't want to right now.

Yet, I know any time is a good time for change and while time can help make change easier, it's also OK to nudge ourselves forward, even if we think we aren't ready.

how about whacking ourselves forward?

I am going to struggle, stumble and fall through this.

do you have to? really ? struggle etc? why can't it be a decision like any other one where you just calmly choose, and then do it in a very positive way? why does the process have to be viewed negatively? viewing it in that negative light makes it very difficult to convince ourselves that it's worth doing or even attempting.

work with the shame first - that was my first big one to overcome - the shame i felt in the beginning was overwhleming - it's stupid to take it that way, i know, everyone kept telling me that, but that's just a human conditioned reaction - from your writing about the town you live in and how big this is for you, you could start by identifying what the biggest issues for you are and work through them. when i worked through my shame and let it go and separated it out, then the real stuff could come through.

You are brave...

lol KD - i don't know about that. more like somewhere on the fine line between insanity and recklessness....?

this interaction has not just been about your stuff kd - it triggered off huge stuff for me that i am just starting to process this morning - i hope i can post about it in a bit, but life needs to happen first.

meanwhile - be kind to yourself

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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~ kd ~ Offline OP
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You nailed it again, zig! cool

I was going to post and point out the WAS mentality in my posts. If you've read back enough and / or remember, you will see me struggling to decide whether I was the WAS or the LBS.

I think it comes down to the reality that there really is not a huge difference as we all are both, at some time during this process. These labels are more about a general description of which spouse is here and which spouse is not. The one that is not is generally considered the WAS.

Regarding the struggling part, I really mean that from a beginner's mind. ie. When we learn to ride a bike for the very first time, we are physically capable, we just don't know how so we struggle through it. We hopefully have enough perseverance to fall and then get back up and do it again.

Yes, it will be an emotional struggle too (ie. getting hurt falling off the bike and believing in ourselves enough to get back on and risk being hurt again... or hope that this time we won't fall).

So as a quasi-WAS, notice how I came to the decision that I was choosing out of the M. Or choosing not to get back into it.

Around here, we will suggest to the LBS that it is not our decision to make. Not at this time in our process. Because at this point in time, it is the WAS who is choosing not to be in the M.

In thinking about the above, I realized that what hurts me the most, above all else (IOW, regardless of any OP), was that when I finally came to the realization that I was not the WAS (I did not have a word for it at the time, I simply was existing in the M and knew I did not have the tools necessary to work towards a better M)...

eiy... talk about a run on sentence...

what hurt the most was when I realized that my W was moving on from me and I finally let her know that I realized there was a problem and I wanted to work on fixing it... she was already gone... what ever the last "reason" was the last straw and there was not fixing it... that I never got the sense that she had at any time over the past two years, looked back and second guessed herself.

That's the part that hurts. Whether it's a truth for her, IDK. It feels like a truth, to me.

That's what I know I really have to get over. What a lot of LBS struggle with. That we may never get an apology. That we may never get an opportunity to sit down and face our accuser. That we will never a chance to at least hear their side of the story.

Of course, never is an absolute and very rarely are things black and white.

It is the "already dead" mentality, though. When there is nothing to lose because it's already gone. It's a good place for the LBS to get to.

Not because then we're prepared to do anything.

Rather, because when we approach the belief in never, we are closer to finally letting go. And if never proves false, then at least we can be surprised and make any necessary choices and course corrections, at that time.

So the one real thing that I need to let go of yet, is that lack of closure. I'm pretty close, I believe. I have to create that closure within myself. Not needing it from an external source.

Everything else? Well, it will be what it is. That's all. And I do not have to live under that shadow of my fear of having my feelings hurt, yet again.

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Some quick notes about how it appears my W "sees" me. Whether or not I'm projecting some truth of these things... well, first the stuff:

+ it appears my W thinks I am (still) depressed
+ it appears my W thinks I am still in denial regarding our M
+ it appears my W thinks I have no friends (seriously, she's kinda said that directly, to me)
+ it appears my W thinks that I cannot accommodate my D9 during summer visits, while I'm working

I vent here sometimes, so like I said, I might project some of my deep stuff, even if I don't think I am. I certainly know I'm 300% better than I was a year ago.

It really does appear that my W has no idea about "how" I am nor what I am doing. That stands to reason, as I shut that door down completely, last Oct. I've been pretty closed and private with what I am doing, how I am doing, and who I am with. Even my close friends and family or my kids do not know my day to day. There was no way my W could get any clear picture.

Then again, who says she is looking, anyhow. Maybe she's very happy thinking that I'm stuck and depressed.

That doesn't matter... What matters is...

Unless I'm "out there", then NO ONE will know that I'm OK, otherwise enjoying life, and fun to be around and... perhaps just a little bit attractive...

My W being one of those people...

The question? How to expose oneself without pursuing...

Maybe I'm looking at that from the wrong direction...

Does it really matter if my W thinks I'm pursuing her because I'm talking to her or sending her email jokes or even flirting...

From someone who for at least the past 5 years has been anything BUT pursuing... this is one of those times when pursuit IS an appropriate 180...

Even though I really have no intention nor desire to "catch" her...

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You know... something clicked for me this evening...

So, hey ladies... what can you all tell me about hair removal products or techniques... and like, those "sensitive" areas... and does hair really grow back thicker if you remove it?

I realized if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this all in...

I've changed carriers, I have a new life ahead of me, and what the heck... might as well enjoy it...

I went with a little more professional look last year, but I've always been a banger / skater... so I'm thinking about trying that look on for the summer. Maybe even get a painted tat to mix things up a bit.

No more "more of the same". Time for something different... grin

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erm... changed careers... I'd change carriers, but I'm locked into a contract... lol...

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what the heck are you talking about here KD - i'm to dense to get it from those vague inferences!!
as far as i know - if you shave it, it does - but also depends what type of body hair you have. if it's really heavy then yes, if it''s really light and sparse then no.

waxing is the best for that. the pain should be a nice way to distract yourself from your sitch (big fat grin)

i don't know what a banger/skater is, so i am very confused, because the images i am getting in my mind are NOT what i am supposed to, i think! if you see what i mean:

"those "sensitive" areas" + "always been a banger / skater"

giggle!!

i've actually been laughing for quite a while now - after your razzing me on mac's thread. i went to post on my own and landed up making the most bizarre typos that had me laughing hysterically. guess my hands are tired tonight!!

about your replies to me above - i'm letting them cook - need to read through them again.

you're one strong person kd - but you're hiding in a hole - come out and live , man - it's much more fun - don't keep yourself so closed away from the world - i did that for so long that i was convinced that the world was this really negative place, but when i allowed my heart to open - i was astonished - there was so much love and support from everyone around me that i couldn't get before because i'd closed myself off from it so completely.

have you read pema chodron? that's where i learned to open my heart - it was scary at first, but then it just became easier and easier. read her first book first - it gets right to the heart of it and it's not very long

take care and thanks for giving me a great laugh tonight. i'd forgotten about those ditches!!!

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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