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from zig


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I could use some help here on how to focus on short term goals - i have a lot of trouble trying to figure out what are reasonable good short terms goals, as h is extremely resistant to the smallest of suggestions. Also could use some help in applying KLA and power packaging - don't know where to start.

My h has just announced that he is going to file for divorce because he doesn't want to hide his r with ow any longer, and he can't do that if he's married.

thanks
zig
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me 46 H 38
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i asked him to move out 9/11


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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sg
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I suggest someone who has experience with

* KLA
* a woman who has been successful with an H in an affair
* setting and achieving goals



I will also help you on the KLA forum with setting goals unless someone takes over.


sg
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thanks sgctxok. really appreciate you setting me up.

forgot to mention that h is very likely in MLC. also he confided in a friend who told me that he admitted it himself

i left you a message on the kla forum and will go check in there, tonight

also wanted to add, that what you are setting up here is much much appreciated. I think many of the newbies feel very lost, and sometimes the advice given by other lbs's may not be the most constructive , even though it is very well intentioned.

the main beginning message that i think would have helped me a lot in the first months, is to CALM DOWN. we get into a panic at every negative thing that takes place and then make unneeded mistakes.

so once again thank you -

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
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BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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I COMPLETELY agree with you.


sg
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Hi zig --

for right now I will work with you -- if you want someone else to jump in and take over I won't get my feelings hurt.

But I'm good at goals, and we can help kickstart.


sg
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just pasting your latest post

Quote:
I could use some help here on how to focus on short term goals - i have a lot of trouble trying to figure out what are reasonable good short terms goals, as h is extremely resistant to the smallest of suggestions. Also could use some help in applying KLA and power packaging - don't know where to start.

My h has just announced that he is going to file for divorce because he doesn't want to hide his r with ow any longer, and he can't do that if he's married.

thanks
zig


sg
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GOALS


So the first thing is -- you are not going to tell your H your goals, because he IS resistant.


So of course your goal is to have him back and in love with you and committed. That is too big a goal right at this moment. Finding the smaller goals comes from exploring what you want. What are things you love about when you two were in love? What were you DOING together?


Going out for an ice cream? Cuddling on the sofa, etc?



Another way is to answer the MIRACLE question: If you woke up tomorrow and a miracle had occurred and everything was perfect again, what would be your FIRST clue that this has occurred? What would you be DOING differently -- or what would your HUSBAND be doing differently?


Start there--- and we will refine later. We will get to Power Packaging later too, because when you ask that question I feel like you are just dying to know some magic words that will make everything all right, and it won't happen like that. It will be ACTION.


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alright sg (can i call you that, please), i'm ready to start - and i so much appreciate that you agree to work with me.

What are things you love about when you two were in love? What were you DOING together?

1. we fired ceramic wood kilns together (both ceramic artists, though i haven't worked in 6 yrs and that created a distance between us because it was the thing that we really connected on) and the connection was really intense

2.we gardened together and landscaped

3. talked about ceramics for hours

4. we helped each other in our work - whatever area the other one wasn't so strong in. really supported each other's work

i realize as i write this list, that most of what we did together involved ceramics. the things we didn't do were at the top of h's list of grievances - spend time together alone, going on dates, encourage each others hobbies etc.

in the beginning of the sitch, i suggested that we should do something fun together, just the 2 of us to find out whether we could have fun and he said -no, i don't want to find out if we have fun together . s was born so soon after we met - we had only hung out together for a few months, that we didn't really establish those kinds of things. then with a newborn, we became consumed with parenting and work and lost track completely

If you woke up tomorrow and a miracle had occurred and everything was perfect again, what would be your FIRST clue that this has occurred?

wow - that's a hard one!! i'm not even sure where to start?

the warmth was back in his eyes, the anxiety was gone, the sense of him turning back to me instead of away to ow?

or do i need to think of it in terms of an action?

i'll try: that he says he would like to try to make our relationship work

because when you ask that question I feel like you are just dying to know some magic words that will make everything all right, and it won't happen like that.

no, sg - i don't think there are any magic words - i already understood very well that it was action - i think i'm well past the stage of that.

today i spent some time thinking about little goals that i could work towards, and finally realized that each one i thought of, my reaction to it was - oh he's so against that right now, that's too big of a goal. then i talked myself into a more PMA, and decided that i could have very small goals, and even if they don't seem achievable, i could at least start there.

so here are some of them

1. h asks me to join him and s when they are together to do some little activity
2. when we talk, that i shut up more and more, and really learn to LISTEN better
3. h stops feeling and implying that i am helpless and need his help until i get back on my feet (his words)
4. h feels comfortable enough to have a meal at the house with s and me
5. h feels that he can be safe with the three of us together - the last 3 months it seems as if he doesn't allow that , because it feels so good and he has to fight that feeling as hard as he can
6.that i use every interaction as an opportunity for a positive interaction

i notice that these goals are very "h-oriented" am i along the right track? also i don't know if these sorts of goals are the ones i should be starting with - i think they come from a place within myself about what i miss the most in this separation

my goals for myself:
1. stop being so pulled in to the sitch and turn my focus more and more towards other things in my life like my work and my friends
2. add more structure to my day - so that i am really working in a focused way rather than in between spending time on the board here
3. focus on myself and my own healing that is still very much in progress
4. meet new people
5. apply for some part time teaching jobs for the fall
6. start my yoga practice again which i have blown off for the last 3 weeks

sorry this was so long

hope i'm on the right track

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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sgctxok Offline OP
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Seriously zig, its rare when someone does so well with goal setting so soon.

I'm really glad that you get the difference between relationship goals and goals for yourself. And your goals in both area are both really good. I'll post again in a minute with more detailed comments.

What the next step is, however is to pick 2-3 of the relationship goals that feel potentially doable in the next 2-3 weeks.

Pick one or 2 of your personal goals to really focus on.

If you have to many goals, it's hard to achieve any of them (I have that issue myself at times).


sg
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Originally Posted By: zig
alright sg (can i call you that, please), i'm ready to start - and i so much appreciate that you agree to work with me.You are welcome. My feelings don't hurt easily, so when you are ready for me to stop--just say let me know or we will talk about it. I commit that when I can get on the board a few times a week in the next 2-3 weeks, that YOU will be my FIRST STOP.

What are things you love about when you two were in love? What were you DOING together?

1. we fired ceramic wood kilns together (both ceramic artists, though i haven't worked in 6 yrs and that created a distance between us because it was the thing that we really connected on) and the connection was really intense That is a wonderful thing to do together. Why did you stop?

2.we gardened together and landscaped

3. talked about ceramics for hours

4. we helped each other in our work - whatever area the other one wasn't so strong in. really supported each other's work

i realize as i write this list, that most of what we did together involved ceramics. the things we didn't do were at the top of h's list of grievances - spend time together alone, going on dates, encourage each others hobbies etc.

in the beginning of the sitch, i suggested that we should do something fun together, just the 2 of us to find out whether we could have fun and he said -no, i don't want to find out if we have fun together . s was born so soon after we met - we had only hung out together for a few months, that we didn't really establish those kinds of things. then with a newborn, we became consumed with parenting and work and lost track completely

If you woke up tomorrow and a miracle had occurred and everything was perfect again, what would be your FIRST clue that this has occurred?

wow - that's a hard one!! i'm not even sure where to start?

the [color:#FFCC33]warmth was back in his eyes, the anxiety was gone[/color],highlighting this, because you need to pay attention to it -- when this happens you need to not discount it even if it is only for a brief time. this is what you will build on, and this is what you need to not let anyone discount as not a big enough achievement. Remember this.



the sense of him turning back to me instead of away to ow?

or do i need to think of it in terms of an action?

i'll try: that he says he would like to try to make our relationship work there are some men that never speak this way, so don't be dismayed if this never happens. Pay attention to ACTIONS from him not his words. If these words do come, they would likely be very far down the line, AFTER he's already been working with you.

because when you ask that question I feel like you are just dying to know some magic words that will make everything all right, and it won't happen like that.

no, sg - i don't think there are any magic words - i already understood very well that it was action - i think i'm well past the stage of that.
thank you for clarifying....I'm glad...that will help you tremendously.


today i spent some time thinking about little goals that i could work towards, and finally realized that each one i thought of, my reaction to it was - oh he's so against that right now, that's too big of a goal. then i talked myself into a more PMA, WONDERFUL! You should teach this lesson on the board: thought stopping and decided that i could have very small goals, and even if they don't seem achievable, i could at least start there.

so here are some of them

1. h asks me to join him and s when they are together to do some little activityexcellent...what kind of activities do they do
2. when we talk, that i shut up more and more, and really learn to LISTEN better [so this is more of a to do item as stated, but it's good. How would you know your H felt you were listening better? What would he do
3. h stops feeling and implying that i am helpless and need his help until i get back on my feet (his words)this is very likely a great 180 for you....but might take longer that 2-3 weeks. So break it down.

If he thought you were the opposite of helpless, in fact, incredibly empowered and strong and successful..... How would he react. What would he do. How would YOU KNOW that he was feeling that way?



4. h feels comfortable enough to have a meal at the house with s and mehow would you know? would he invite himself to stay? would he accept an invitation? would he just start eating as you were eating?
5. h feels that he can be safe with the three of us together - the last 3 months it seems as if he doesn't allow that , because it feels so good and he has to fight that feeling as hard as he can what are your indicators that he feels this way
6.that i use every interaction as an opportunity for a positive interactionthis is a good idea, but 'lofty'. What kinds of interactions do you have? Long conversations? Greet him at the door? Phone conversations? Let's get specific and pick one or 2

i notice that these goals are very "h-oriented" am i along the right track? you bet you are!also i don't know if these sorts of goals are the ones i should be starting with - i think they come from a place within myself about what i miss the most in this separation

my goals for myself:
1. stop being so pulled in to the sitch and turn my focus more and more towards other things in my life like my work and my friends

so what specifically would you do differently


2. add more structure to my day - so that i am really working in a focused way rather than in between spending time on the board here

My nature is to be completely unstructured. So at times I create a time-map that I have found by a professional organizer. It's basically a calendar that you put things on there that you want to commit to, and you try to follow it. Of course for me, there's the problem of actually looking at the map....but you get the drift...maybe that would help. But just pick some things that are really important to you...not the SHOULDS. pick the things that give you JOY. It will bring out your inherent attractiveness.
3. focus on myself and my own healing that is still very much in progress
4. meet new people
5. apply for some part time teaching jobs for the fall
6. start my yoga practice again which i have blown off for the last 3 weeks
these are all great things
sorry this was so long

hope i'm on the right track

zig
[b][/b]



So let me know if you're ok with that pace (~ 3x/wk -- might be more but I want to commit to something)


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sorry sg - i have read your answer to me several times, and have been waiting for today all week so that when this big party was over, i was going to sit and respond and focus on this.

but interesting thing i have found out about myself in the last few hours:

when things are going well or sort of well - i am very enthusiastic and able to keep a PMA and work towards my goals.

but when things are a bit discouraging or i don't see my current efforts always bringing positive feedback to me, I get very discouraged and give up.

This is not only to do with h and our sitch. This is the PATTERN of my life - with everything - work, play. relationships, every little interaction , all my efforts that i felt were thrown back at me in a way i didn't expect -and then i was crushed by them.

I'm actually very unsettled with finding this out for myself all of a sudden today - and i see it so clearly.

so it brings me to the present - and working on these goals, while i digest this new awareness. for the first time i am conscious, that oh gosh - i have to keep staying positive and not walk away from this after every disappointment - that is a HUGE growing up thing for me to deal with, and probably the biggest life lesson i need to learn here.

so since i just figured this out in the last 5 minutes, literally - i am a bit overwhelmed by it, and am just going to go meditate, and give it a chance to just flow through me and sit with it for a bit.

i trust, that as i go through it i will understand more how i need to accept this as a life lesson and be okay with it . i'm already now, eager to find out how i CAN be capable of changing this within myself and for now, all i can think of as a goal is:

My goal is to not get discouraged with every small thing that happens and still keep the faith in spite of external circumstances.

thanks

zig

ps. i will still get back to the other ones:)


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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WOW! It is great to have some self-awareness that you are going to be able to use to find solutions for all of your relationships. This is transferrable to yur relationship with your son and your work, etc.


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so - i've been mulling over my feelings this last couple of days, and almost find myself reluctant to come here and state my goals. not really sure what is going on with me right now.

the only pressing goals that i can think of right now, is taking care of myself, focusing on myself and moving forward.


the truth of the matter is that i have spent so much time focusing on h, s and this sitch that i am not doing the things for myself that i should be doing.

last week i was so clear on the goals with h, and this week, i can't find a reason to pursue them. that same old helpless feeling comes up whenever i think of h right now - as in, what's the use in trying, i don't even know where to start. it was always there during the marriage,and i suppose if i'm really honest, his actions now, are making me feel more like that

so for now - i just need to propel myself to not think about him (not doing such a great job this morning), to really dive into my work - which is at a stand still, think about how i want my life to be and who is in it. and to let go of all those things that just agonize me


i find myself thinking - i need a break from working on this marriage, i need a break from 11 yrs of being constantly disappointed that no matter what i did, it never made a difference.

it's time to make a difference for myself , just for a few days - to see what it feels like, and then maybe later think about what it feels like to want to work on those other goals


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
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BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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Zig, sg - a truly stunning thread that's going on my watch list.

Zig - I hope I pray I get past your stage, as I'm sure you will - the getting discouraged bit - because that's also me right now. I'm spending far to much time "catching out" the significant other - that's different, that's different etc. instead of doing what you're trying to do focus on yourself.

Hope yo had a great day.

Mac

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zig -

Michele says that figure out our own answers (and she provides DB tools to help)... and you are doing that ... you know what you need to do right now.

I'll keep checking back.

Keep track of what's going well and the progress you're making, even on your personal goals. It helps keep the focus AND it helps in tougher times to be able to see what you've done well.

What have you been doing this week to take care of yourself?




(I apologize for the delay....my sweet border collie/aussie dog passed away on Friday and I have just been grieving...much more than I thought I would.)


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Hi sg - please please don't apologize for the delay. you have a life too, and i am just so grateful that you are even here, to help in any way.


What have you been doing this week to take care of yourself?


i don't feel very successful on any area this week. I am bummed to say that i am still not pushing enough with my personal goals.

there is so much continuous emotional upheaval and i know that i need to retrain my brain to stop and switch my focus to something else

i did do quite a bit better on monday and tuesday, but wed and thursday were not so successful.

I know what i need to do in my mind, but seem to be having a very hard time actually doing it. can't figure out what is holding me back so much.

Michele says that figure out our own answers (and she provides DB tools to help).

i'm aware that i am feeling quite lost in terms of motivating myself and seeing what i should work towards in my personal goals. the work thing is really going slowly, and i am now becoming aware that even though i am very talented, my belief system about my skills and what i can achieve with them is sadly lacking in self-confidence.

where are these tools that michele speaks about?

i think now, that when i am real turning the focus away from h, i am seeing so much within myself that i need to work on.

i shall try harder tomorrow to focus more clearly on what to do. my list of to do things has grown so long ...

thank you for your help
zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
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BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


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Hi sg,

great thread. thank you for your work on all of this.

i am so sorry about your collie. hugs to you ((( )))


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hi sg - hope your'e feeling better today. ((( )))

i think i reached one of my mini-goals.

h stopped by without calling and walked in (without knocking)

s and i were just sitting down to lunch with beautiful plates. he had brought the rest of s's stuff over. i happily thanked him and asked him if he wanted to hang out - and he sat down at the dining table with us and opened some mail.

a lot of direct eye contact - a little intense, and then after about 15 mins he said he had to go.

so, its been several months since he sat at the table with us - i could see he wasn't agonized and uncomfortable, so may casually ask him over to dinner next week or ask if he wants to come and fire up the bbq.

need to find some time to sit here and write out m goals again more clearly.

i have done much much better this morning - 2 big things off my list. i woke up and looked around and thought - this is okay - and actually felt serene for a few moments.

there was a lot of stuff to work through this last week, some of it triggered by events around me, some of it actually triggered by this bootcamp project.

hope you're well
zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
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BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


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i'm going through some huge thing right now - it's transforming me, and i am not sure how to write about it.

It's about exploring and uncovering one's most deep-seated beliefs. inspecting them and discarding the ones that have always sabotaged my efforts without me understanding why life went the way it seemed to.

i was always puzzled - that even though my conscious intentions were always good, and i felt as if i made my best effort at everything i did, somehow somewhere down the line in all my endeavors (work, r's, living), something always went seriously askew.

so a friend - who is also a therapist, offered sort of jokingly a few weeks ago that she could help me quit smoking. i've vaguely wanted to for a long time, but could never really get past the thought of doing it, into the action of doing it.kept saying to myself i wasn't ready, something was holding me back, i had to work through something to get to the right place to attempt it , etc, etc (oh the things we come up with)

so finally today we got down to business.

boy, i had no idea what technique she was going to use. i didn't have a clue. we did something called belief management exercise - i was on the phone with her for 4 hours!!

by the end of it , i had pages of "my beliefs" written down - and i was astounded to find out how many of them seriously impeded any real development within myself. I had to mark them as 'helpful' beliefs and 'impeding' beliefs

it was really really interesting - because the moment i recognized them as 'impeding' , just the very act of recognizing them - the result was to let them go and recognize that they were not helping me reach what ever goals i had.

then we went through this really intense exercise which uncovered something deeper at the next level - what she called 'transparent beliefs" and these are ones that operate at a really deep level, and we don't even know that they exist, they are so deep-seated. but they are very debilitating to a person and also cause them to self-sabotage constantly.

and wow - was that an eye opener for me. they didn't come easily to the surface - i had to do a lot of work to get to them . i couldn't even see where i was going in the middle of it and then suddenly through the exercise it would pop out and we would both go wow. and then there would be silence as i just sat there staring at what i had written and flashes of my life would come before me as i saw how that belief had shaped so much of how i'd been.

so here i am with all this new info about myself, and i haven't even begun to digest it. but what i can see is that reaching any sort of goals - personal or relational - has just gone into a completely different place for me.

i wasn't really able to start because deep deep down i didn't believe that i was capable of it, or capable of succeeding at accomplishing what i was setting out to do. so i will take the next few days to absorb what i have learned about myself and how my perspective has changed,, as well as my perception of who and what i was

if there's any goal i want to pursue seriously now, is to keep on at exploring this within myself. it's not an easy one to measure - but the measure is there. the more i am able to focus away from external things that are not mine to worry about and turn to things that are truly mine to care about, then i know i am continually taking the correct steps in the right direction. i know it sounds a bit vague, but it's all i can see right now.

i'm marking this day for myself - it's a step in a direction i didn't know existed. how cool is that ?

zig


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This is so cool. I am very inspired and might try some of those exercises. I feel like you are really blazing a trail for some of us here:).

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Originally Posted By: zig
Hi sg - please please don't apologize for the delay. you have a life too, and i am just so grateful that you are even here, to help in any way.


What have you been doing this week to take care of yourself?


i don't feel very successful on any area this week. I am bummed to say that i am still not pushing enough with my personal goals.

there is so much continuous emotional upheaval and i know that i need to retrain my brain to stop and switch my focus to something else controlling your thoughts is a powerful skill

i did do quite a bit better on monday and tuesday, but wed and thursday were not so successful. so ffocuson what you did RIGHT on Monday and Tuesday

I know what i need to do in my mind, but seem to be having a very hard time actually doing it. can't figure out what is holding me back so much.
We ALL struggle with that, don't beat yourself up, be proud of every little bit of improvement...because that's how it builds. Focus on what you do right.
Michele says that figure out our own answers (and she provides DB tools to help).

i'm aware that i am feeling quite lost in terms of motivating myself and seeing what i should work towards in my personal goals. the work thing is really going slowly, and i am now becoming aware that even though i am very talented, my belief system about my skills and what i can achieve with them is sadly lacking in self-confidence. I can tell you that the folks that are looked at as gurus are very proud of what they do right. They don't do everything right (including me)...even Michele doesn't DO everything right. It's just much harder to move forward when you're beating yourself up. Plety of other folks are all to ready to do that for you, too. Congratulate yourself/celebrate your successes. And you know what...confidence is attractive.

where are these tools that michele speaks about?

all of the skills in DB/DR, KLA and The Marriage Breakthrough.

i think now, that when i am real turning the focus away from h, i am seeing so much within myself that i need to work on.

i shall try harder tomorrow to focus more clearly on what to do. my list of to do things has grown so long ... shorten it to 2-3 things. When they are done it will be easy to add other things.

thank you for your help
zig


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Originally Posted By: needgrace
Hi sg,

great thread. thank you for your work on all of this.

i am so sorry about your collie. hugs to you ((( )))



I greatly appreciate that, need, it's much harder than I thought...dammit. I keep expecting her to be under my feet when I get up from the sofa or chair. It's funny that the one thing I hated -- the doghair -- is giving me a little joy right now, because now matter how much I vaccuum, it still isn't all gone.


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Originally Posted By: zig
hi sg - hope your'e feeling better today. ((( ))) thank you! I am better. I still miss her, but....time helps the intensity of focus on her

i think i reached one of my mini-goals.
cool
h stopped by without calling and walked in (without knocking)

RUDE!

s and i were just sitting down to lunch with beautiful plates. he had brought the rest of s's stuff over. i happily thanked him and asked him if he wanted to hang out - and he sat down at the dining table with us and opened some mail.

a lot of direct eye contact - a little intense, and then after about 15 mins he said he had to go. sounding good

so, its been several months since he sat at the table with us - i could see he wasn't agonized and uncomfortable, so may casually ask him over to dinner next week or ask if he wants to come and fire up the bbq.
sometimes, just putting things in motion is better than the convo....why not be in the midst of a bbq when he shows up...would that work?
need to find some time to sit here and write out m goals again more clearly.

i have done much much better this morning - 2 big things off my list. i woke up and looked around and thought - this is okay - and actually felt serene for a few moments.
dont you love those moments!
there was a lot of stuff to work through this last week, some of it triggered by events around me, some of it actually triggered by this bootcamp project. Excellent--you are doing a great job...I enjoy working with you

hope you're well
zig


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That is very exciting, zig!

I'm very happy for you. You have had this synchronicity of lifechanging opportunities and you are that rare person who will use it to 'power up' to become your highest self...or however you choose to say....improve....and there is no way that this won't positively affect every facet of your life--your relaitonships, your health, your inner peace, your job -- every bit of it. And I'm really happy to be a witness and we are blessed that you are posting here.


On a side note -- KLA (Keeping Love Alive) begins the same way -- challenging our beliefs about love and relationships and finding out what our partner really believes ... and how those two beliefs/perspectives DO NOT need to match to have a very happy relationship.

My partner and I do not have the same beliefs actually, and our relationship is very fulfilling: tender, loving, exciting and committed. But if we had to argue about the philosopy of such things...and if I thought we had to match (as I used to think) well, I'd end up angry, hurt and 'on the board' because I would have caused a rift. And believe me, I did in the early days. It doesn't make yo ubury your head in the sand. It makes you 'get real'. So I'm not saying all that because you need to hear it, just sharing because I think you can resonate. (Those KLA questions are on the KLA forum if you want them.)




You are doing great. I'm proud of you.


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do you want this thread 'stuck' or is it ok to unstick?


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Originally Posted By: sgctxok
Originally Posted By: zig

i think i reached one of my mini-goals.
cool
h stopped by without calling and walked in (without knocking)

RUDE!

i guess i should have explained. the doorbell doesn't work, and from the beginning h always knocked as he came in (he started it, i didn't ask). a couple of weeks ago i told him that his knocking always made me uncomfortable and that i preferred he didn't knck but just walked in. he protested saying i needed my space and he needed his, and i replied that i didn't need him to give me any space as i was quite fine with my space. he half joked about well hope you'll be knocking on my door, and i replied that i surely would, to which he replied - you don't have to do that.

here's my reasoning - until a few weeks ago, i had some really strong boundaries in place from the beginning - a lot of them to do with this house and how and when he could be in it. granted i needed them at the time, but what i finally realized was that making boundaries with the house was giving h a very strong message that i was NOT happy with what he was doing. every time he lifted his hand to knock on the door, reminded him of what he was doing and put him into the shame/guilt/agony state, so his entry into the house was always in that state. now when he just opens that door and walks in, he walks in in a different mood, relaxed - not having just heavily reminded himself (thus associating it with me and the house).

i haven't seen anything negative since i changed it and he isn't stopping by all the time - just that once - when he was bringing over some clothes for s and stuff that had got left at his parents after the party
so, its been several months since he sat at the table with us - i could see he wasn't agonized and uncomfortable, so may casually ask him over to dinner next week or ask if he wants to come and fire up the bbq.



sometimes, just putting things in motion is better than the convo....why not be in the midst of a bbq when he shows up...would that work?

don't know how to wangle that - he never stops by, especially at meal times.
update for today - we had tow very positive conversations on the phone this evening . at the end of the first, i casually threw out that we're having burritos for dinner and if he wants to stop by so he can see s, he's welcome to join us. after a very tiny hesitation he said - sounds good, let me call you back because my dad is just about to leave. he called back a bit later to say that he'd decided not to come because he wanted to keep on at the house especially since the temp had dropped and take advantage of the cool (it ripped over 20 degrees today which was such a relief). i just said fine no problem and we had a really positive conversation for about 10 mins about taxes (see, i'm getting good, grin). i wanted to make sure he felt absolutely no pressure about me saying no.


there was a lot of stuff to work through this last week, some of it triggered by events around me, some of it actually triggered by this bootcamp project. Excellent--you are doing a great job...I enjoy working with you

thanks sg - and i look forward to your replies
hope you're well
zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
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BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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And I'm really happy to be a witness and we are blessed that you are posting here.

aw shucks sg, i think that we are all doing that.

i don't know what i'm doing - maybe i can't see as clearly as you guys are - but being called 'wonder woman" and 'rare' all in the same week..

wow - talk about having my tank filled - i'm practically preening here

oh and i guess i should add - that h - who was very worked up - on MY behalf today and went into full "i'm going to protect my family" mode - while he was going ballistic - blurted out something along the lines of "look at you - you've become this amazing super confident woman who has her [censored] completely together"

how's that for finding out that he's seeing something else. i can't say i didn't have a big fat cheesy grin on the other side of the phone!!

talk about wanting to "protect' me - he was all ready to go into full attack mode on my behalf and call this person and yell at them.

i fulfilled my new confident role, requested really calmly that i would like to deal with it first on my own, and if it didn't give a satisfactory result, then i would ask for his help. he replied that of course he wouldn't call unless i let him, but he was ready to do it right now.!!

i feel like i handled the whole thing really well with him - and i can't say i didn't take the opportunity to use what happened as a way to have a pretty connecting conversation with him. that is one subject that both of us have felt very strongly about for years.


challenging our beliefs about love and relationships and finding out what our partner really believes ... and how those two beliefs/perspectives DO NOT need to match to have a very happy relationship.


alright - so is this KLA a book, that i haven't heard about yet, or exercises or what? i need to get on this - mostly for myself

what you said resonates - and how you describe your r with your partner - puts a smile on my face. i am sooooo happy when i hear or read about successful r's - i'm so glad for you - and yes please, share all you like - i have a lot to learn.

i did bury my head in the sand - and now, when i realize the ways i did that in - i do NOT want to ever do that again - in any r, not just with h. now i want to inspect and challenge my own beliefs about what a r should be about - i feel that i am just getting to the point where i can explore that

thanks for the encouragement , sg -

also happy to say - that there have been what i think of as huge little shifts in my focus - in the last few days. i can feel things changing within me at the way i'm thinking about work more, the way i shift my thoughts when i start to think negatively into more positive ones, almost immediately and so feel that on a subtle level i have made a lot of progress within the area of "mind control"

the biggest progress i have made is in my PMA , i think and in detaching - not just from h but also from other things around me. i've also done much better in the way i'm handling subtle patterns within myself with s and with h - which has given me a boost of confidence.

so i am looking forward to the new week starting and really making progress

a sentence from my meditation tape:

Be eager about your life

thanks
zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
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Girl you are rocking it! Good job!


KLA--Keeping Love Alive --

was my lifesaver. I read DB, and joined this site.

Then DR came out, then I took a KLA (Keeping Love Alive ) seminar (per the recommendation of KentS, a DBer.... and took it along with another DB website member)...the seminar was PACKED. ....I met Michele. The two of us women took it alone, without our loved ones... a lot of folks took the seminar as couples. (DB/DR is for one person; KLA works for an estranged partner or a couple; The Marriage Breakthrough is for couples)

MUCH MORE information than you asked for.

Michele liked my responses to a few folks. I became a moderator and got the KLA tapes. They are also available on CD/MP3 download. It's not that I DB better than anyone else. I just understand the DB principles and am committed to them. And they are successful for me in my life....my relationship with my partner (10 years+ strong and very very happy), with my children, and with my job. These skills are so transferable. And they are about love.


Again--I sense I'm preaching to the choir. You already get it. You should GIVE advice.


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not sure what you were referring to on the good job! but yeah, i'm definitely rocking it!! grin!!

in terms of getting it - oh no - i am a long way - you haven't seen me in between, in my "lesser moments"....but i will be proud to say that those lesser moments are getting lesser and lesser!!!

what i've finally gotten:

that i have to be determinedly happy anyway, whatever is going on around me, that i have to find the happiness in what i have already, not in what i am wanting to get - that's just extra.
that i can learn to give other people a lot of space and time
that others have the right to their opinion (hard one, i still slip up with s)
that i AM very capable of keeping my mouth shut (need to do that way more often)
that everything someone else says does NOT need a reply or opinion (still practicing)
that i don't have control over what others decide
that it's possible to be happy even if i don't get what i want

what i haven't gotten yet but really working on now

how to really listen and hear what the other person is really saying
how to be more sensitive,and soft and gentle (my sag personality causes me to be a foot in the north battering ram sort of chick, but learning to restrain that tendency!!)
how to understands where i'm at really and where others are at
how to not be judgmental about what others are doing even if i say i accept it
how to completely let go of other's decisions
how to really focus on the things that are important to my growth and independence - i've got the theory, but haven't fully put it into practice
how to take care of myself - i've always depended on other and still do

the list goes on, but that's a start. as for preaching to the choir - good grief - i think i'm giving too positive of an impression here.

but sg - i seriously wasn't expecting that caliber of a compliment from you. it's hard for me to acknowledge compliments still (yes i'm working on that too) - and i'm almost embarrassed that you wrote that (ok being really honest and open about how my own underlying lack of confidence makes me have that reaction)

besides if i'm honest - i don't feel that i am "db'ing" successfully in that h is still on his course. and then at the same time i realize that i am because of the place i have reached - and understanding that that's what db'ing is truly about - where i'm at

so KLA is a seminar, and you can get the tapes - i'm still not understanding - and you didn't give too much info at all - i'm a real info - intense person - love every detail!!


so even if you think i'm the choir - please please preach - this one is just walked in!!

zig


me 46 H 38
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smile

You deserve your compliments.


So here's my 2x4 ... our first connection was related to KLA:


KLA


I don't think Michele does KLA seminars anymore, but the CDs/MP3 workshops are still available.




But...the worksho is online on the link above...it is better if you have the audio -- vets who have done this go over it every ear or mso .... I knkow JackThreeBeans and his wife do, I do, and other oldtimers do


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thanks sg:)

2 x 4? where? - i didn't even feel it! you need to take the padding off!!


too bad no more seminars - will go check out the link


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haven't done my homework this week - looking into the kla stuff.

what have i done? just to keep a bit focused here - i went to follow that list i had first made

my goals for myself:
1. stop being so pulled in to the sitch and turn my focus more and more towards other things in my life like my work and my friends
2. add more structure to my day - so that i am really working in a focused way rather than in between spending time on the board here
3. focus on myself and my own healing that is still very much in progress
4. meet new people
5. apply for some part time teaching jobs for the fall
6. start my yoga practice again which i have blown off for the last 3 weeks


1. started focusing more intensively on my work - it hasn't been going very smoothly - lots of techie issues with computers and machines and oddly that's helped me focus away from the sitch. best part - watched my anxiety levels start to rise as in the past but managed to "talk" myself to a more relaxed place in my mind - i think that's huge for me as my anxiety levels would rocket at the least challenge

2. still working on the structure of my day - it's a tad bit wishy washy but a lot better than it was

3. eating better, definitely

4. exercise - oops - bad on this one

5. sleeping. ironic problem here. i get on the boards after s goes to bed and then suddenly it's very very late. i want to spend time here, reading and responding to others, but am finding that it really eats into my sleep time. s goes to h's tomorrow for the following week, so then i will be able to start earlier

6. gal'ing. that's been a bit low this week - my friend is busy writing her dissertation now, and the others are out of town. i am going out with h's friends' wife tomorrow for dinner (i say that like she's not my friend - she is. we didn't meet or see each other or talk for 9 months after DB, and then we have reconnected)

also s has joined a very intense film-making course and is knackered in the evening and doesn't feel up to doing much more. but next week i'll be on my own and it will be easier

haven't met any new people yet, but that of course is a bit difficult when you work at home

7. my own state of mind and PMA - i am doing great with that. i don't think much of what may or may not happen with h - if it comes up in my mind i try to focus onto something else. i have been dealing so much with some of the huge releases that have come since last weekend, and the result has been so much more peace and so much less "wanting". i'm starting to be okay where i am with myself

8. haven't done anything about applying for jobs yet - need to start working on that.

1. h asks me to join him and s when they are together to do some little activity
2. when we talk, that i shut up more and more, and really learn to LISTEN better
3. h stops feeling and implying that i am helpless and need his help until i get back on my feet (his words)
4. h feels comfortable enough to have a meal at the house with s and me
5. h feels that he can be safe with the three of us together - the last 3 months it seems as if he doesn't allow that , because it feels so good and he has to fight that feeling as hard as he can
6.that i use every interaction as an opportunity for a positive interaction



1. he hasn't done that literally yet. don't know if it counts that he called and repeated several times - "just letting you know we are going to be at the cracker show if you want to come"
it felt as if he wanted me to come down there, but couldn't ask directly.

it's a step. all these months he's absolutely not mentioned what they are doing. of course, our friends were there, so that may have been why - otoh these past months he's done stuff with same people and i have not been called and told about it "if i wanted to come"

2.i think i'm getting better at this. i know i sound confident here - but when we do talk, i do get nervous and edgy and find myself focusing on those feelings and trying to hide them, and then don't always pay attention to what he's saying in some ways. will keep working on that

3.i think i achieved this goal - in a phone call last weekend - while he was going ballistic about what someone else was doing to me - he blurted out. "what's wrong with them? can't they see you're this confident amazing woman, who's got her [censored] together". the issue was that this other person had targeted me assuming that because of my sitch i was vulnerable. i had to discuss it with h, because s was involved and we needed to make a decision together

5.sometimes it's hard to tell if I've reached a goal. I have a picture in my mind about how it would look, and it may not necessarily be that, and then I'm not sure if i was anywhere close.

three of us alone together? hasn't really happened specifically. but after a long time, h hung out at the house this morning for 45 mins - he seemed pretty relaxed. maybe one teeny step towards the goal?

6. i think i've managed to keep just about every interaction with h on the positive side - the 2 that went a bit awry - i think i managed to end them positively.

i've had the longest voice mail ever from him a couple of days ago - relaxed warm voice which was a real treat after sooo many months of curt short verbal shots. also he seems to answer when i call or calls me back pretty quickly and sounds very relaxed on the phone. i've even had several how are you's - asked as if he really meant it and wanted to know. i don't think it occurred to him to ask me how i was for over 10 months

i'm glad i took the time to go back to this list and write something for each of them. it helped me see more clearly where i was (making the list) and where i am now, just a couple of weeks later

sg - i seriously am having problems approaching the KLA thing - have no idea why!

i was going to order the download, but had to use the money to upgrade my knitting machine software - which was very unexpected. so will have to wait a bit on that

sg, how are you? are you feeling a bit better or still having a tough time? i hope you are better.


look forward to hearing from you

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
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h filed 9/25/12


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just to add - h had breakfast with s and me this morning - all of us together!!

went well. i was casual and relaxed, he was quite quiet and introspective, slightly tense, s started to get spastic when we first sat down, and h told him to relax.

he got a really good taste of how it could be different. i even got him to make the eggs!!

as an aside - he is repeatedly telling me that buying that house was a bad decision - this morning again.(in fact, i've just realized that every time we've spoken for over a week, he's said that) this time i stayed quiet, and just said - what could make it better? just time , i suppose - and he agreed quietly, yes.


me 46 H 38
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h filed 9/25/12


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hey sg - hoping to hear back from you.

are you doing well? hope so

zig


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Hi zig -

Things are getting better, and I so appreciate your kindness!

I will respond to your posts in a minute.


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zig -- I'm going to focus here on the more major pieces of personal and relationship goals:


Personal Goal 1: “stop being so pulled in to the sitch and turn my focus more and more towards other things in my life like my work and my friends”

Achievement #1: “started focusing more intensively on my work - it hasn't been going very smoothly - lots of techie issues with computers and machines and oddly that's helped me focus away from the sitch. “
From sg: That’s good and it helps. Was it a conscious focus or something that just happened? Either way, it’s GOOD, just good to note and pay attention to your conscious choices as events present themselves.Best part - watched my anxiety levels start to rise as in the past but managed to "talk" myself to a more relaxed place in my mind - i think that's huge for me as my anxiety levels would rocket at the least challenge
From sg: This IS HUGE! You made a choice to change, to do self-talk, thought stopping, making a CHOICE as to how your mind and body will respond.


***


On another note: Your efforts to take care of yourself physically also affect you mentall, spiritually, emotionally--as you know. So keep working on getting good sleep, exercise, nutrition, etc.


I look forward to an update next week on these same goals!


sg
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Relationship goal #1: “h asks me to join him and s when they are together to do some little activity”
Achievement: “he hasn't done that literally yet. don't know if it counts that he called and repeated several times - "just letting you know we are going to be at the cracker show if you want to come"
it felt as if he wanted me to come down there, but couldn't ask directly.”
From sg: I’m not sure why you are not counting that. It doesn’t have to sound like a date. It’s a BABY STEP. Now, the important part: what have you done recently that you think helped to create the atmosphere that he could allow you to go? Please be sure to answer this question.

Goal # 2: “when we talk, that i shut up more and more, and really learn to LISTEN better”

Achievement: i think i'm getting better at this. i know i sound confident here - but when we do talk, i do get nervous and edgy and find myself focusing on those feelings and trying to hide them, and then don't always pay attention to what he's saying in some ways. will keep working on that
From sg: GREAT! How will you know that what you are doing here is important TO HIM? What will he DO differently? How will he respond so that you know you did well?


Goal #3: “h stops feeling and implying that i am helpless and need his help until i get back on my feet (his words)”

Achievement: “i think i achieved this goal - in a phone call last weekend - while he was going ballistic about what someone else was doing to me - he blurted out. "what's wrong with them? can't they see you're this confident amazing woman, who's got her [censored] together". the issue was that this other person had targeted me assuming that because of my sitch i was vulnerable. i had to discuss it with h, because s was involved and we needed to make a decision together”

From sg: This makes you a DB SUCCESS. It might not be the whole ball of wax, but you achieved a small goal, and from these goals, you achieve the big goals. NOW:
A: What actions of yours helped you achieve this goal (be sure to answer this question)?
B: How do you keep doing more of y


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Relationship Goal #4: h feels comfortable enough to have a meal at the house with s and me
Achievement: sometimes it's hard to tell if I've reached a goal. I have a picture in my mind about how it would look, and it may not necessarily be that, and then I'm not sure if i was anywhere close.
From sg: That picture is what you really want. You need to define this for yourself, if you want this goal, get this picture.

Otherwise:
“i've had the longest voice mail ever from him a couple of days ago - relaxed warm voice which was a real treat after sooo many months of curt short verbal shots. also he seems to answer when i call or calls me back pretty quickly and sounds very relaxed on the phone. i've even had several how are you's - asked as if he really meant it and wanted to know. i don't think it occurred to him to ask me how i was for over 10 months”
From sg: This is really wonderful!!!! What were YOU doing lately that lead to this, because, absolutely you are doing something RIGHT. Be sure to answer this.


sg
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oh sg -so GOOD to hear from you.

are you sure you are doing okay? you sound a bit sad

((((((((big)))))))

i'm so grateful for what you took the time to write, and i am going to sit down now and answer the questions you asked.

just wanted you to know that i had seen your response.

it's funny you answered right now and gave me a boost - right when i needed it

thank you....

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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Originally Posted By: zig
just to add - h had breakfast with s and me this morning - all of us together!!

went well. i was casual and relaxed, he was quite quiet and introspective, slightly tense, s started to get spastic when we first sat down, and h told him to relax.

he got a really good taste of how it could be different. i even got him to make the eggs!!

as an aside - he is repeatedly telling me that buying that house was a bad decision - this morning again.(in fact, i've just realized that every time we've spoken for over a week, he's said that) this time i stayed quiet, and just said - what could make it better? just time , i suppose - and he agreed quietly, yes.




Outstanding interactions!


I think a LOT of people are in this same boat over houses purchased in the last few years. Something has to give soon, at least I hope so.




You are doing a GREAT job! Keep it up!


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I think a LOT of people are in this same boat over houses purchased in the last few years. Something has to give soon, at least I hope so

just wanted to clarify - in case you are thinking of something else.

h bought a house really cheap - or rather his parents bought it and he's gutted the entire thing down to the bones - gave up his rental yesterday - and realized that he has to move in with his parents, because the house is NOWHERE near ready - as in maybe in december, if things go really really well

he is under an enormous amount of stress right now and is losing it left right and center. i don't know if you're following my thread, but he only informed me late the night before he started moving out (day before yesterday!!) and i told the in-laws who didn't know.


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
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h filed 9/25/12


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Was it a conscious focus or something that just happened?

at first, i really had to push, but slowly by itself, i just got there when i didn't try so hard - and the first few times, it was only a while later that i would suddenly realize - oh i've been concentrating so much on this, i forgot to think about the sitch.

it's almost funny isn't it? how goofy we are!!!

Now, i just expect to focus for the most part!!

You made a choice to change, to do self-talk, thought stopping, making a CHOICE as to how your mind and body will respond.

thank-you sg. it's interesting how the "gap" between making the choice and actually starting to live it takes time to narrow until the two overlap. will use that and apply it to other things as well.

i'm going to answer one post at a time - hope we can keep track:)


me 46 H 38
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h filed 9/25/12


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Originally Posted By: sgctxok
Relationship goal #1: “h asks me to join him and s when they are together to do some little activity”
Achievement: “he hasn't done that literally yet. don't know if it counts that he called and repeated several times - "just letting you know we are going to be at the cracker show if you want to come"
it felt as if he wanted me to come down there, but couldn't ask directly.”
From sg: I’m not sure why you are not counting that. It doesn’t have to sound like a date. It’s a BABY STEP. Now, the important part: what have you done recently that you think helped to create the atmosphere that he could allow you to go? Please be sure to answer this question.

ans: as far as i can tell -

1. i let go of boundaries with the house
- asking him to just walk in instead of knocking,
- dropping a boundary i had put into place last fall which was really stressful for him and caused him a lot of agony and which actually was back-firing on me and his family

2. i'm not sure about this one, but letting him know that i was worried for HIM about us sleeping together and how he couldn't manage it, rather than showing neediness myself
3. staying absolutely consistent after he said that he was not going to do it again, not getting upset at all and not showing any change in my demeanor towards him - in fact acting even friendlier and flirting a bit

so in other words: not to display any behavior that points the finger at him as he's doing something wrong (the house boundaries brought that up for him in a tremendous way), unnerving him about his picture of me being the needy one who wants him back and for the third - staying consistent in my reactions with him no matter what he does (that is, not showing any judgement whatsoever).
-


Goal # 2: “when we talk, that i shut up more and more, and really learn to LISTEN better”

Achievement: i think i'm getting better at this. i know i sound confident here - but when we do talk, i do get nervous and edgy and find myself focusing on those feelings and trying to hide them, and then don't always pay attention to what he's saying in some ways. will keep working on that

From sg: GREAT! How will you know that what you are doing here is important TO HIM? What will he DO differently? How will he respond so that you know you did well?

answer:

uuuh (hesitate) that he will open up more? that his voice will relax and he will talk naturally instead of all tense and abrupt and terse? that he will initiate more conversation


Goal #3: “h stops feeling and implying that i am helpless and need his help until i get back on my feet (his words)”

Achievement: “i think i achieved this goal - in a phone call last weekend - while he was going ballistic about what someone else was doing to me - he blurted out. "what's wrong with them? can't they see you're this confident amazing woman, who's got her [censored] together". the issue was that this other person had targeted me assuming that because of my sitch i was vulnerable. i had to discuss it with h, because s was involved and we needed to make a decision together”

From sg: This makes you a DB SUCCESS. It might not be the whole ball of wax, but you achieved a small goal, and from these goals, you achieve the big goals. NOW:
A: What actions of yours helped you achieve this goal (be sure to answer this question)?
B: How do you keep doing more of y

WOOHOO!! believe me, sg - when he said that i had the biggest grin on the other end of the phone saying to myself YEEEEES!!!!

okay now to answer:
A: I have no idea!! no i'm kidding. by the end of the second month after BD - i started acting as if - all the as ifs'. i also started working. mil helped me to set up a sale in this really fancy store downtown. it was in march. until then, h never so much as asked what i was doing he walked in there and got blown away - I was back in business, back to the zig he met, able to throw a fantastic show together. for the five years after the accident, he never thought i'd do anything ever again -neither did i for the most part

my actions - i've just put one step in front of the other, faced each abominable fear as it came up (and some of them were overwhelmingly huge - the night before the show i cried for 4 hrs while i worked, petrified of stepping back into the world again) . no matter how much he has challenged me with this sitch, i have shown up for every family occasion , with a smile on my face db'ing my butt off. no matter how messed up h and s have been at drop off and pick up i have smiled and encouraged them to go have a good time together, no matter how messed up i've felt i haven't once shown him that after october. i've used the incredible resources and love around me to prop me up through it all, and thank god i found this board, because it propelled me faster and further than i ever thought anything could

sorry that was a bit of a dramatic answer there-

B: just keep moving toward the person i'm meant to be. months ago it was acting as if - now i'm not acting, this is who i am. i don't have to pretend anymore - i just try to focus on loving him and s, not in terms of what they do, but in terms of who they are to me




me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


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Originally Posted By: sgctxok


Relationship Goal #4: h feels comfortable enough to have a meal at the house with s and me
Achievement: sometimes it's hard to tell if I've reached a goal. I have a picture in my mind about how it would look, and it may not necessarily be that, and then I'm not sure if i was anywhere close.
From sg: That picture is what you really want. You need to define this for yourself, if you want this goal, get this picture.

Yes, I will do that. i think i understand how it works - you make the picture in your head and then just work towards it, believing it can happen
Otherwise:
“i've had the longest voice mail ever from him a couple of days ago - relaxed warm voice which was a real treat after sooo many months of curt short verbal shots. also he seems to answer when i call or calls me back pretty quickly and sounds very relaxed on the phone. i've even had several how are you's - asked as if he really meant it and wanted to know. i don't think it occurred to him to ask me how i was for over 10 months”
From sg: This is really wonderful!!!! What were YOU doing lately that lead to this, because, absolutely you are doing something RIGHT. Be sure to answer this.

I don't think i realized until recently that all these months HE was mirroring me. so when i started becoming more friendly and open, he seemed to relax more

it was little things like phone calls - i wouldn't pick up right away, and take my time calling him back. i wouldn't initiate any calls unless i absolutely had to. i was rejecting him in ways i couldn't see, but he could feel very strongly - for e.g.. when i'd call to say goodnight to s, as soon as he picked up i would just say hi i called to say goodnight to s. now when he picks up, i take the opportunity to have a cheerful conversation with him. in reaction to my earlier way, he started handing the phone to s to answer, now he answers every time (maybe he's looking forward to talking to me - evil grin!!!) and we have a light easy chat

now, i just treat him like a friend - i pick up and say hi cheerfully and ask him how he is. i think i was being so LRt before that he felt it really heavily and it reminded him constantly of what he was doing. and that constant reminder kept him focused on that, and he couldn't relax around me.

i got into such a habit of worrying non-stop about everything i did, and whether i was pursuing or not, that my anxiety must have come through. the minute i stopped all that and just started acting like i used to with him (during our good moments), he seems to be responding better.

as i look back, i see that i needed that long period of going dim for myself to get to a more detached place, and that this is just how it goes. at the time i thought i was going dim to "get him back" but now i can see it was to get me to a good place




thank-you sg, for taking this time with me. i hope my answers weren't too tediously long

i am going to write the next set of goals - defining/redefining on the ones that i have right now.

take care
zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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sgctxok Offline OP
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Outstanding, and FAST!!!!

I might be wrong, but I think it's easier for women to DB. I think women can affect a man's behavior more easily than a man can change a woman's. But that is completely my opinion or feeling at the moment and not DB advice. It just seems that way to me.

It's getting FUN, isn't it. You are building the attraction and love all over again. Getting a chance to revisit the beginnings. And make new beginnings. Romance over and over again...with the SAME partner. And what better model for your son.


sg
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You are building the attraction and love all over again. Getting a chance to revisit the beginnings. And make new beginnings. Romance over and over again...with the SAME partner. And what better model for your son..


do you really think so?
i don't know if i'm reading more into things than what is really happening.

i have a slight challenge this week - and i use the word slight deliberately - I am choosing not to let this 'take me down"

h just let me know a couple of nights ago that he was "going out of town" this friday until the following saturday.

this is his way of saying, as far as i know, that he's going to see ow. her name hasn't been used by either of us in conversations for many months now.

we were on the phone - a long long call and he found a chance to 'slip it in"

i did really well - didn't let my voice change and just casually went straight to details of when and where i was picking s up - as i would with anyone else.

then tonight - talking to my mom - realized that he was going to be down there on our wedding anniversary!!

ouch!!

except - and here's a very sad thing about the true state of our marriage- we never celebrated it once - in fact neither of us was clear on the date. both our mothers would call us the month of july and keep asking us to look it up and both of us were like what's the big deal.

only now i see what we were really doing....

i said to my mom, this year i want to acknowledge it. luckily she drummed some sense into my head that it was NOT a good idea to send him a text saying happy anniversary - thanks for our years together.

i've had mild moments through the last couple of days - absolutely nothing like the last few times.

i am slightly unnerved - they were meeting - either him going down there or her up here - on an average of every 2 or 2and half months, but she was just up here barely a month ago for 10 days. so the pace has upped slightly...

my main goal for the next 2 weeks :

every time i think of him being down there, i shall think of my turtles who are accompanying me on my journey - if you haven't met them:) they are Patience, Perseverance and Faith and they have been teaching me a lot.

they've invited a couple of others - Compassion, Focus and Self-Confidence to join us, but I've specifically asked this week for them to call Validation, Letting Go and Self-Improvement to join my little army of companions.

Bring it on Baby!! I read somewhere that one is never given more than one can deal with - so obviously i can deal with this.

if you have any suggestions, i could sure use them

thanks sg - for all your support

zig

ps. oh i forgot - that stupid turtle Doubt keeps trying to join our group and i have kicked him out on his a$$ so many times, you'd think he'd get the message by now!! what's up with him!!!


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
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BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


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hi sg - i guess i have a week here to work on myself.

been waking up earlier, and apart from a few down spells, been able to propel myself back to a good place again

h has been withdrawn and picking for a fight since monday, and that's been really hard to have positive interactions all the time. i think the most i've been able to manage is to turn the conversation to a more peaceful level by the end.

i got a bit discouraged yesterday - actually i should say i got put off - and today i've sort of worked myself to an indifference towards him

You are building the attraction and love all over again

i do feel quite confused sometimes about what stand to take. accept the marriage is completely over - but at the same time do the above?

how does one truly do both? what are your thoughts on that?

i'm not even sure what i am really asking here. for now - just to focus on myself.

h going away is a good wakeup call for me to detach further. i'm way way more detached than i was the last time, and i can see a huge difference in how i am dealing with it this time.

it's as if it's not that important and doesn't hold as much weight as before...

i was hoping you'd talk to me more about the KLA stuff - would you"

it would be good for me to focus on something like that for now maybe.

thanks
zig


me 46 H 38
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BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


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sg - may i request something please?

I know you don't have a lot of time, but if you could go read my thread. It's pretty long, quite intense and starts on pg 3 of my thread post # #226403

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2263709&page=2

it's many many pages -

I wouldn't ask, except I would really like your feedback swell as any other vets who care to say something. there's a few people involved in the discussion, and i think you may find it rather interesting.

I was hoping that we would have more contact. I think i need a more "fixed, definite" plan here, as i am very much wondering how to proceed

look forward to hearing from you and sorry to ask such a big favor

thanks
zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
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BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


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my goals for this week:

for myself
1. to continue doing my yoga at least 3 times per week
2, to get to bed earlier - be able to fall asleep by 11 pm
3. to finish clearing the clutter in the main house - almost done with that but a day's worth more to go
4. if it's not too hot, to get started on organizing the garage
5. to work on being more patient with my brother, who continues to challenge me - try to have at least one conversation out of 3 be positive (grin)
6. plan and go on a little trip with s alone. working on not feeling so overwhelmed to go all the way to Co to Rocky Mtn, Nat. Park and camp there on our own. I'm finding the idea a little daunting - doing the 10 hr drive alone . maybe a place a little closer would be better, but i want to go up into the mtns so bad i can taste it!!

with h
1. still not listening - getting nervous and talking too much myself. need to practice more stfu technique
2. continue to be consistently friendly and present
3. i don't know where he's at, but continue with goal of the 3 of us doing little things together, like a meal or a little outing
4. using every interaction as much as i can, as an opportunity for a positive interaction
5. i would like h to invite me up to his studio to see what he is doing

i'm going to focus on these goals as much as possible during this next 2 weeks.


me 46 H 38
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h filed 9/25/12


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one more goal to add, and this is a long term one

for myself. I need to become financially responsible for myself. we are still living off h's paycheck, and I feel terrible about it. I need to either apply for a job, or get this knitting business off it's feet and going really well.

btw - if anyone is reading this:


I think sg may need a break, and if there are any vets out there who can help me stay motivated towards my goals, i would be most grateful. I write them down - especially the ones for myself, but have trouble working towards them.

thanks
zig


me 46 H 38
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Hi Zig, maybe try thinking through to answer your own questions as if you were sg, and write that, and then when sg can make it back here there is more to react to and share feedback on.

You can learn from the vets by trying to think like them if you can.

Not as a vet but as a fellow db'er trying to learn how to work toward goals, I would suggest that your list is extensive. How about pick your top three or so, or the easiest ones to start, so you can build up your sense of accomplishment. Make them concrete and make them things actually within your control (try revising the one about H inviting you to his studio.)

I love your personal goals. Curious how you plan to have more positive interactions with your brother.

If you have a goal that's taking a while like the clutter in the garage or planning a trip, you might try breaking it into smaller ones like for example this week I plan to pick a date in the future to spend a x-hour block of time on the garage. Or, this week I'll list the top three things in the garage that make it look cluttered and deal with at least those three. Baby steps!

With H, it's good to have the goals written down and be thinking about them, even if you forget in the moment you're still building the skills. How do you think you could listen to H better?

How have you been doing on your goals so far? Celebrate what you achieve, and even celebrate that you wrote the goals down! You're doing great!


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6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
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well, i'm no vet but . . . wink

could you make a goal to spend 1-2 hours looking at local jobs within the next week or so?

OR

could you make a plan to get your own business going? say, meet with someone to get some advice? like a local women in business group or something? (or look online?) (if it wasn't already clear - i don't know squat about starting a business.) what do you need to get it running?

just some thoughts since this thread was at the top when i logged in smile

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oh vera - so lovely of you to answer. i really appreciate it so much.

as soon as i read your post last night, i got on line an distorted looking at what jobs were available here.

it was horrendous!! but it was a good reminder - to make me think of how i would like to see my life, in terms of what work i would like to do. it woke me up once again to the fact that I was better off for now pursuing what i really enjoy and trying to make that work , instead of rushing off to be a barista at starbucks!!

so today - i have started to think about applying to craft shows, calling my friend who has an art boutique in SF, and beginning to think along the lines i used to before the accident. how to find venues for selling my work.

I think I'm going to have a sale out of my house in august - sort of an "open house" day where people can drop in and buy or at least see what there is available. i know a woman who did that here fro 3 or 4 years and sold quite a lot (kids clothes) and I thought maybe I could do the same as a start for local business.

I know that the real reason why i I have not pursued this more determinedly is that something is holding me back emotionally. I'm trying to work through that at the same time, so am hoping that when those reasons or beliefs are uncovered they can fade away and I will be strong and determined about this. I know I am physically capable , but emotionally - there is something askew..

just your replying an suggesting a couple of things, has helped me push myself a bit more.

maybe the feeling of things being so up in the air in my life, also affects my work and i feel reluctant in some way to take definitive steps in that area. I keep making that conscious decision , while at the same time not living it on an everyday level

thank-you
zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
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BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


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ps. i also wanted to say that watching the way you have gone about your goal of keeping your house - it has really taught me a lot on how i could stand up for things that i want and how to calmly and determinedly go about it.

i guess i'm still in a place that i'm not sure what i want when it comes to the picture of my life for the future. i had that pic so very clear, until the day of the accident. in fact- it was so clear that it overrode all other parts of my life. i feel a bit lost without that part of me. it's been replaced by a hazy foggy cloud of uncertainty for 6 yrs now, and taking steps in that fog has been very difficult.


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
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BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


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well, i may have found some work - as in a small job doing some production knitting for a company - thinking of it as bread and butter work to bring some money in while i continue establishing the shawls side.


nothings definite yet, but it looks very promising - so i am really pleased.

interesting emotional response to it. at first it sort of got me all excited and my mind immediately started to see all the other ways i could earn money, and i realized that i felt much more comfortable trying to make money doing several different things rather than just focusing on only the shawls. that was a revelation, and suddenly the unease of whatever was holding me back lifted. i think i was concerned that only depending on that was too much pressure.

after that i got really nervous and shaky - so i called my friend and she help due, saying that it was just taking another step into the unknown, and that it was ok. i swear - the way she talks - i think she's a DB vet - i'm so lucky to have her in my life. and to think that 2 and 3 yrs ago when i first met her, i really didn't care for her all that much.

then later in the evening i just started to feel really confident about it all - whether it works out or not, suddenly i feel that well, if that opportunity comes up, other ones can too.

i think i'm losing that fear of not finding work and being able to support myself. so MUCH peace from that, all of a sudden

i also see what i wrote above as what i could do in my sitch and change things around for me. i don't need to focus on my r with h as the only alternative, that i can allow other possibilities also.

i've gone to bed much earlier the last couple of night. obviously not so good tonight!! but it's ok - i've done some good reading.

made another dent in the clutter today, so that was very encouraging - am slowly going through different areas of the house - getting rid of my old life and self...

the yoga isn't going well - maybe it's like the work thing - something holding me back, and when i'm ready for it, it will just come...

starting to see how that approach can really work for me - not so much self-pressure as i used to do, but more of a gentle non-self-critical approach


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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Hi zig -

I'm glad you've solicited some extra help. I did check in about around the 16th and started to respond, and the notes about your 'turtles' got me curious and I started looking those up.

Then something huge fell apart at work, and I've been distracted by that -- travelling, etc.

Like me (and everyone probably) you have lots of 'pieces' that you work on. The relationship, your work, your friendships, yoga, etc. So your focus changes. Keep your focus on the things that are most important to you.

I will read through your thread, especially the most recent pieces.


I have experience especially years ago with meeting other DBers in person. I went to the KLA seminar with another DBer, and later met up with some.

There are good reasons why personal contact through this board is not encouraged. Some of it simply that this place is meant to be temporary. While some folks stay after their initial DBing...hopefully with success, most folks leave after not needing it. That's the way it's supposed to be. Staying connected often reminds people of terrible times. Or one of the two is often negative and holding the other back. Of course there are lots more scenarios than that.


sg
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zig -

I read through the thread you linked and the most recent thread.

You are on the right path that you set with Joann. There are LOTS of philosophies on the board, and they are not all DB philosophies. The friend, welcoming, open strategy DOES work and it works very often. You have to see if it works for you.

And whatever strategy you choose, you have to press on and not flip flop. I don't see your actions flip flopping, but sometimes the words are...you question yourself. That's ok.


Revise your goals/actions. See how they match TO DATE.

He's having dinner with you...check.



I think right now you should look at....if you and he were building your love again...how would you know? What would be the very next step? What would he be doing?


That's your next relationship goal.



****

The other thing I want to say is that when other well meaning folks give advice about setting boundaries, and what things SHOULD be happening, and theyve seen this work and that work.....they often have done plenty of OTHER things themselves, in their heartfelt warm interactions with their spouses...and you aren't hearing about THAT. WHAT did they do to warm up?

****
At the end of the day, YOUR OWN


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heart is what has to lead you.

YOUR COACH has the best skillset to help you build yours. When advice on the board conflicts with your coach (even mine)....go with your coach.


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adinva - i feel really bad - i didn't see your post until now - and you're probably wondering why i never replied to you

I'm so sorry - your advice was great and i mean to follow it

and thank you so much for taking the time to reply - i really appreciate it

zig


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sg - so nice to hear from you. and of course, life gets in the way often.

about your comments on meeting other db'ers - was that because we talked about getting together someday to celebrate? i wasn't sure if i wrote something specific about it that you brought it up?

Keep your focus on the things that are most important to you.

yes, i've recently realized that i have too many things and feel overwhelmed by trying to be better at then all at the same time. so i need to make a new list and scale down so that i really focus on 2 or 3 things, as adinva suggested so i feel a sense of accomplishment more easily

I don't see your actions flip flopping, but sometimes the words are...you question yourself. That's ok.

I know, I see that too, and i recognize the old pattern within myself. when i feel encouraged i stay with a very PMA, when i get discouraged or things don't seem to be going well in the moment, then old resentments rise and i find myself thinking very negatively not only about the past but also about the future with h.

But i'm leased to say that in the last few days working on forgiveness and letting go - both of the past and of the future outcome, i am becoming much much more consistent in not boomeranging around as i used to. when things go not so well, i find myself starting to get discouraged but almost immediately just letting it go and seeing it as part of the whole WAS picture and saying don't read this incident as a prediction of the worst.


I think right now you should look at....if you and he were building your love again...how would you know? What would be the very next step? What would he be doing?

This ^^^ is where i get really stuck - and could really use your help.

I find myself sort of giving up - on one level - he's said a month ago he was going to file, and when i try to think about what building our love might look like - all i see is him fighting like hell within his mind to not turn towards me again.

he told me months ago 'i'm in love with you, but i am going to fight those feelings as hard as i can till they go away"

i know what you are telling me is to envision what it would look and feel like for him to turn towards me again. i think i know - but am to afraid to imagine it, for some reason right now -

maybe the problem is that i am trying to do both - let go and detach but also try to do what Joann says to do. my dilemma is how can i do both at the same time?

can you help me to refine the stance i should take?

Revise your goals/actions. See how they match TO DATE.


yes i will do that

he just came back from his trip with ow yesterday - i guess i'm waiting to see where he's at, before setting new goals?

he did come over with s today - and both ends of the spectrum in his conversation - half of it was clearly implying one thing, half was the other. when we talked about my work etc it was like you should do this and this so you're prepared to file singly next year on your taxed. when it cam ego looking at some money stuff - we this, we that.

then the looks - trying to stay physically away - but constant appraising glances and "checking" me out as if he couldn't keep his eyes off me.

so i feel very confused - about how much to flirt etc.

i did have a very positive interaction with him the entire time - and i know he felt a bit confused and uncomfortable. we had a "peach" moment - he loves peaches - never seen anyone who loves peaches that much. i called him and s into the kitchen just before they left and all 3 of us ate the most perfect peaches together. i could see the confusion in his eyes - here i was offering him his most favorite thing and it was hard for him to truly enjoy it. it wasn't something i had preplanned in anyway - it just happened.

i'm not sure how he's going to be - he usually has been a bit withdrawn after his meetings with her and more determined - so will have to see where he's at and then decide .

i will make a new revised set of goals now, over the next couple of days. at least for now, i think it's better for me to focus on myself more than on the sitch

thanks sg - so glad you are on my side. if we could talk a bit more on the details of the position i'm taking, i think it could help me to define where i am. the confusion and unease come from not always knowing the parameters within which i should be working

zig


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i do have a small progress to report.

I did meet with the woman today and pretty much got the knitting job. A lot of details to iron out - we are both new at this. But it seems as if she can give me as much work as I am able to do.

I do have to design the pieces - and i started on that already today. She was very pleased and excited about the stuff I make, which was really a good encouraging feeling for me.

So my "goal" of finding a job,, suddenly fell into place. It really feels as if the universe just dropped it into my lap while i was looking elsewhere....

In fact there will be so much work to do, that I am going to have to seriously put my nose to the grindstone to get it done : grin

there won't be so much time to worry or focus not this sitch!!

Timely...


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sg - are you around tonight?

i could really do with a conversation, am feeling discouraged and unnerved

thanks
zig


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so - i don't know if anyone will see this, but are there any vet out there who can help me set some goals here for the following few weeks.

h is ready to file for divorce.

after "snooping" as in others voluntarily giving me info - apparently his A may not work out.

i realize that they could kiss and make-up, in spite of that, so definitely not making a big deal of that in my mind. otoh, if there are any suggestion from vets who have been in that situation and have some insight for me - AND especially help me keep sight of what i should be focused on - it would be very helpful.

thanks
zig


me 46 H 38
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So what were the reasons why his A may not work out? Take it for what it's worth...information.

Have you cleaned up and changed the negative behaviors that he initially complained about? Not the nonsense spew, but the real behaviors that you felt needed changing?

What were some of the things that made him attracted to the OW in the first place?


M-43 W-40
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Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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Thanks Mrbond - for stopping by.

i actually didn't realize anyone had posted back to me here until tonight

So what were the reasons why his A may not work out?

i'm assuming you want my opinion on it, based on what I heard?

this does not come directly from h, but from his mother whom he spoke to. I only know some of what may have happened, and so these are my thoughts on it. all he said directly to me was that "it's probably not going to work out with ow"

apparently ow was pushing h to meet his family and our s, for a while. they arranged several weeks ago, possibly as long ago as march that she would come this weekend for the "great" family gathering.

last thursday he told mil that he was feeling alot of pressure from her about doing this, and realized that he had f'ed up and he should cancel her trip. the next day after the D conversation with me, he did. he then told mil in 2 more conversations that ow was a bit upset, and then that she was freaking out, and he had realized that there was no way she could be coming up here while he lived with his parents (he just moved in with them 3 weeks ago). when mil said "people who don't have kids don't understand the sacrifices that parents go through for their kids" he agreed and said that's for sure

there are three people that h cannot face with this affair. His son and his mother's parents (who live there too). this family gathering (and it's huge) is to celebrate the same grandparents 70th anniversary. when it comes down to it i don't think he can walk in there with ow and look them in the face. and her pressuring him - well h hates pressure of any kind, even when it doesn't exist he perceives it as pressure.

i have no idea what else it could be.

what i do know is that last friday in the morning before he cancelled her trip, he came here to talk about how we were going to file. at one point i asked him very gently what his thoughts were on how he would introduce ow into s's life, and requested that we could discuss it before he did, so i could be prepared to support s. he promised me that we would do that. i don't know if that had any effect (earlier i had asked him that he wait until after the D for this), but he did cancel that trip the same day, and also told mil that the trip hadn't just been postponed, but that there were no plans for her to come up while he lived there - she said he was quite indifferent when he said that.

one thing i do know is that during those 3 or 4 days, the only person he didn't feel any pressure from was me. mil had freaked on him initially when he told her

one thing i do know about h is that he cannot abide anyone who gets upset or freaks out - he shuts down if they do (i did that alot during our m , and didn't realize that he could not even begin to handle it)

Have you cleaned up and changed the negative behaviors that he initially complained about? Not the nonsense spew, but the real behaviors that you felt needed changing?

in spades - far beyond my own expectations. it is constantly confirmed for me by all around me, including h - he has said that i am amazing in the way i have handled this. a few weeks ago he pointed out that i was this amazing strong woman who had her [censored] together - and believe me, i didn't before he left.

What were some of the things that made him attracted to the OW in the first place?

well, i'm not sure if i can answer that. around october last year, 2 months after it started, i said something to him about how i understood that he went to find something outside our marriage that was obviously missing for him. his reply was - that's the thing, nothing was missing.

apart from telling me once that he realized when he slept with her that his sexuality was intact, i don't have any other direct info about that.lately he's been going on about how we didn't have enough sex and now it was too late (we slpet together one night about a month ago and he was really freaked out because he felt so much and because he enjoyed it so much, but also felt that he had been disloyal to ow)

in the beginning when i found out who and where it was it seemed significant. she's the sister of one of his friends from a very fun period in his life - he had never met her all these years, until last august. i do know the sister and mother - they all live together in this wonderful nirvana like place. [censored], even i want to live there!!! early on, in one conversation he admitted sardonically that he could see how he was enacting out that period, when i think he felt truly free. he was going to uni and lived in a tent in the forest with his dog and had a motorbike. he started this sitch by getting a motorbike then riding it down there and starting the affair the next day!!

i think he felt trapped and wanted his freedom - and now when ow is pressuring - that's not freedom any more. i also see how h's father has several times escaped the ties of his marriage in order to feel free....

sorry my answer was so long - hard to pack it all in and give a clearer picture

i suppose i should mention that when h left, it had been 2-3 yrs of us both expecting me to be a messed up semi-invalid for the rest of my life. he came home everyday not knowing whether i was going to be half passed out in bed from severe migraines or "having a good day". it did look very bleak, and i suppose now when i think about it, maybe what he was getting from ow was emotional connection.(also , he didn't have to make any effort - with me he had to make a huge effort in his eyes that he hated making)

due to the post-concussion syndrome symptoms, i had lost most emotional connection with everything and everyone around me. it was coming back slowly and the year before he left i was getting better - a lot better, but it was too late for him to even notice that - he had given up long before.

thanks again MrBond -for looking in and asking

zig


me 46 H 38
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Hi zig -

I'm glad you're reaching out and connecting...actually YOU KNOW HOW TO SET GOALS now better than a lot of DBers. So let's see you do it.

DO IT. Then start the threads that teach the goals class YOURSELF. TAKE THIS OVER FOR ME. You've got it.


I LEARNED by moderating. I became accountable. Now I'm happier than ever with the best partner ever. He DB's better than me now.


I'm proud of you.

Keep soliciting advice....but for goals, girl...YOU'VE GOT THIS.


SET THEM. I will check back.



In this moment...I'm travelling with my job a lot, unexpectedly...not normal...but will happen again for the next week or two.

Do the goal thing. I'll check in on that. Other stuff...work with Bond and/or others. THEN .... think about it seriously ....


YOU BE THE BOND GIRL . I mean the GOAL SETTING expert.

I will help you till you completely take over. Are you interested?????/


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If I'm reading this right.....SG wants you Zig to set up a thread about setting goals and for you to chat to others on that thread about goals they are setting and progress they are making...

SG says (she? he?) learned loads by moderating so I think SG is suggesting that you start working with others on setting goals.

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Exactly.


Set goals.

Refine them
(doable within 2 weeks-ish; action oriented, positively stated, something your spouse (or you and your spouse together) will DO differently)

Track progress

Set next step goals repeat.... (until everything snowballs and relationship comes together)


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I will help you till you completely take over. Are you interested?????/

Yes, thank you


I became accountable.

I see how I have to do this now

MrBond, 25, cat04, KD, Denver, Adinva, Starsky, Accuray. labug, and all of the other vets - will you help, please?

sg - how should it be set up? you said "threads" as opposed to thread. in this forum or the KLA one?

Any suggestions on how the structure will be set up?

thanks
zig


me 46 H 38
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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=110222#Post110222

michelle posted a link in the first post on this thread in the staying solution based workshop under Goals


the link doesn't work. any way to reinstall it?

Is the Joann she is referring to the coach Joann, or a DB poster?


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Originally Posted By: zig
I will help you till you completely take over. Are you interested?????/

Yes, thank you


I became accountable.

I see how I have to do this now

MrBond, 25, cat04, KD, Denver, Adinva, Starsky, Accuray. labug, and all of the other vets - will you help, please?

sg - how should it be set up? you said "threads" as opposed to thread. in this forum or the KLA one?

Any suggestions on how the structure will be set up?

thanks
zig


I'm happy to help Zig.


M 43
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W moves out of home 11/2010
Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012
I request divorce 5/2012
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Thank you Denver, not just from me but all of us smile

any thoughts on how to set up the structure? grin no time like the present and all that...

zig


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A thread is set up. You can start the structure there, if needed it can be moved, but it will likely be more active here.

Zig, please click 'notify' anytime you want moderator help. We will jump in, or respond via Virginia. You should know moderators DO NOT have your personal contact information, only administration does.


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I'm here to support you zig, you know that... cool

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Thanks dbmod smile

about "notify" - does that get posted on the public thread also, or only to the moderator?

zig


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cool
grin grin
cool

+ a strawberry:)


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Originally Posted By: zig
Thank you Denver, not just from me but all of us smile

any thoughts on how to set up the structure? grin no time like the present and all that...

zig


Just use the thread the dbmod set up. IMO, any goals that you or anyone else wants to define for themselves have to based on what it is you want. Not just with your M, but what you want for yourself.

They need to be short term and attainable IMO. Begin small. A wise man once told me... "how do you eat an elephant? one bite at a time" ... LOL... funny the things that stay with us.


M 43
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W moves out of home 11/2010
Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012
I request divorce 5/2012
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Just to begin with....if it grows, I THINK it should be a forum, or could go to Staying Solution Focused.


Setting goals is so at the heart at what we do, and it's extremely neglected, even by myself.


You shall be queen.


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Can y'all help dawnmarie?


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oh yes - thanks for the elephant visual smile - good one to keep at the forefront of one's mind!!

and yes - i did see the thread - alot more than i expected. i feel humbly honored - i had no idea!!

so i guess i will bite the bullet and go jump in tonight

btw - i always thought that the bootcamp threads were to do with goal-setting anyway... how do you see the difference between this one and those?


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thanks sg - and for the confidence in me. I swear i'm not getting why yet, but i decided that instead of resisting i would at least act 'as if'., until i do feel more confident!!

how's that for applying my DB skills smile

as for being queen - well, do queens get their strawberry icon grinj

just kidding!! well.....maybe not

as for setting goals and being neglectful about it - i was guilty of the same this last few weeks. - off to set some!!


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hi sg - don't know if you are around. just thought i'd check in with you.

thanks for giving me this "job" . i'm beginning to see what the real benefits are. as i help other people refine their goals, it helps me to see where i am at and how i can improve and grow.

i finally ordered the Keeping love alive cd's and they arrived today. listened to the first one, so am eager to go through the rest.

there was a bit of a "development' today in my sitch. h had made an apptmt for us to meet with the mediator next tuesday, but when i mentioned that i would probably have a L look at the stuff, he went ballistic and said that if i was using a lawyer then there was no point in keeping that appointment, and he cancelled it saying he would file the papers himself

originally 2 weeks ago he said that the reason he wanted to use the mediator was because "you know me i'll never get around to all that paperwork, and the she will take care of that"

he insisted that me using a L was because i saw him as a threat, but i calmly insisted that i was not doing it to protect myself against him, but just to protect myself. and made it really clearly that it was his decision to cancel, even if he was using me seeing the L as the reason. that was because he kept saing that he'd have to cancel because of what i was going to do

i'm seeing a new pattern here - a lot of the things h said to me at BD and in the months after - they are reversing in some way and i am saying them to him - not verbatim but along the same lines.

about the affair - he repeatedly said "i'm not doing this to you, i'm just doing it"

only after i wrote what i said to him today, i realized that i sort of said the same thing back to him.

he now wants us to sit and discuss this weekend how we are going to split everything up exactly, and then he's going to file.

i have not been entirely responsible for myself and looked into what my rights are etc, or what i should expect. so am a tiny bit nervous about the conversation.

do you have any advice for me, or for how i should handle this new scenario?

it would be much appreciated.

also if any other vets can help me here, i would love to hear form you all

thanks
zig


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Hey zig,

No big advice but keep in mind that you don't have to agree to everything or anything during your talk. You are fully entitled to say "I'll have to think about that" or "I'll have to get back to you on that ." If he presses you for an answer or starts spewing again (his control shenanigans with you talking to an L and canceling the mediation were just that) you can just tell him that you're not trying to confound him, you just want to make sure you get to a fair and appropriate settlement. When you talked to your L, did you get a sense of what would be fair for you to get?

I had another thought but lost it because it takes forever to type on my phone.... If I think of it I'll come back.

Good luck ((( )))

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thanks vera - i had also decided, for lack of knowing any better right now, to say the same things as you suggested.

in some ways i feel it is a passive approach - because i have not been to talk to a lawyer yet.

i'm struggling with that - i don't know if it's because of the money - that's what i'm telling myself. but to be really candid, i think it's because i don't want to deal with any of it and avoid it altogether.

and that brings me of course to what i am facing within myself - how i avoid painful things , or things i don't want to do by putting the responsibility on someone else.

one could say it's different here - h is the one who wants this, but to tell the truth, if i agree to co-operate, then i should be doing my part here.

as for him controlling by cancelling the mediator apptmt because i would use a lawyer - i actually sense that he was looking for an excuse - any excuse to do so.

he made that apptmt within days of coming back from seeing ow - all fired up about being with her. and then a week later was so irritated with her for being upset when he said she could not come, and i can't help but wonder if he is rethinking what he's doing

of course - speculation - but it is combined with a certain amount of observation and intuition on my part here. but what do i know - i'm not in his head

all i do know is that he jumped on that so fast huffing and puffing about it all, that it seemed a rather odd reason to use to cancel

any insight would be welcome

thanks zig


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Originally Posted By: zig
and that brings me of course to what i am facing within myself - how i avoid painful things , or things i don't want to do by putting the responsibility on someone else.

one could say it's different here - h is the one who wants this, but to tell the truth, if i agree to co-operate, then i should be doing my part.


I do think there is a difference between not wanting to be an avoider and taking on the work of doing the D. Are you DONE done? If your answer is no as I grieve it is

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Oh geez, sorry, major phone fart!

If you are not DONE, don't think that you need to take on the burden of doing the work to get a D in the name of not being an avoider. Get your ducks in a row because your H's actions suggest he wants a D (not the canceling the mediation, you're right that we don't know his motivations). But you don't need to do the work FOR him. Make sense?

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you're right - i wasn't feeling like i had to take on the burden. i've made it clear to him that i won't help him.

if i were totally honest i would say i may be tryings to procrastinate and slow down the process by being "inactive"

and i'm trying to figure out if that's me just not wanting to face what i have to - like this conversation or that i'm simply trying to slow down the process

an interesting horoscope for tomorrow which i though realy lays it out well what position i can take, in fact slightly uncanny -

"Be very careful that, when you discuss plans with others, they understand you regard the arrangements you're currently organising as but one stage in a process of exploring your options. While you love considering various options, they don't. Get them involved only once you're done exploring and are ready to settle on one plan."

thanks vera - i love talking with you - you are so calm about this. i guess i'm calm but feeling sort of numb today

zig


me 46 H 38
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"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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Originally Posted By: vera be fierce
Hey zig,

No big advice but keep in mind that you don't have to agree to everything or anything during your talk. You are fully entitled to say "I'll have to think about that" or "I'll have to get back to you on that ."


PERFECT, vera. I said that a lot during my talks w/ W...but I was also ready so when she mentioned an outrageous number, I could take her back to the facts.. so that she would not stay stuck on it..

i would let her know why i thought her numbers were not fair but i would not counter..

not till much later when i was truly ready..

and after i had run the numbers by some very trusted friends who are really good numbers/$ people..

one of them told me i was giving up too much and explained why which really helped me.

i pride myself on being a good numbers person but when the heart is involved it is easy to make mistakes..

love you, zig..


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Originally Posted By: zig


if i were totally honest i would say i may be tryings to procrastinate and slow down the process by being "inactive"

and i'm trying to figure out if that's me just not wanting to face what i have to - like this conversation or that i'm simply trying to slow down the process


Either way it gives you the gift of time that Cadet is find of mentioning. I get what you're saying about procrastinating. In my opinion, you would only be procrastinating if there were something active that you were purposefully not doing, such as not responding to the D complaint or not providing discovery information. You're not there yet. For now it is good to stand still. I don't think Pema would say that is procrastinating smile

So how about some short term goals re getting your ducks in a row... Finding a few Ls to call, having a list of your individual and joint assets and liabilities if you don't already, recent tax returns, things that you think will or could be issues w your H. Those are things you could do to face what you have to do w/o actively moving toward D. You can take steps to protect yourself and arm yourself with info w/o.necessarily moving that process along. Knowledge is power smile

Get some rest tonight dear zig, maybe a nightcap and some stretching to help you get relaxed smile

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ng - you and vera are so good to me. i've left this to the last minute to even find out what it is all about.

i'm embarassed to say i haven't even let my mind go there to find out what numbers i would even look at.

what numbers were you looking at? to buy out her share of the condo?

i don't even think there is anything to complain about where h is concerned. he doesn't want anything, i don't think. he wants me to buy out his share of the house - which is very little- he's insisting the rest of it is mine, because my parents helped us pay it off. he doesn't want to touch my investment, which is why i think he got so upset when i said that we can't use that money for joint living expenses.

he's shared his paycheck with me this entire year. i don't know what he will be proposing but will find out when we talk. he's carried the financial burden ever since my accidents in 2007, so he's done more than his fair part.

so apart from "giving up" health insurance, there's not much else i would be giving up - except having to buy out his share, which frankly is not really that fair to him - he's only counting it as the money his parents put into buying this house - not the years of him working to pay the mortgage on the last house.

in fact, unless he's got something up his sleeve, he's walking away with nothing - i'm sitting with a house and car paid off, and just my bills to cover. he's going to have a mortgage and return that money to his parents- idk, so part of the reason i haven't looked into it, is i simply don't know what to look into. he'll take his truck and we do have ceramic studio equipment worth quite a lot in storage - and i imagine, knowing us , it will just stay there and we'll decide not to deal with it until later

alimony? child support - why should he support me if we have shared custody?

everyone seems to think he should. i don't know if i am going to have a steady income like him or not - and the way it looks certainly no retirement plan anywhere on the horizon - so i guess i will have to look into all of that...someone said something about being eligible for their 401 K if you are married a certain amount of years.

he seems to even be open to the idea of sort of waiting for my citizenship to come through = the "lucky" part there is that there is no way to even begin to get an answer from the immigration dept. about how long before it goes through.

so in that sense, h is not acting like the bad guy here at all. in fact he seems so riddled with guilt that he is going the other way - overcompensating.

and then of course, i ask myself - is it right to think of him like this and trust him still?

he accused me of not trusting him in that phone call - and i stayed quiet - but thought to myself - where is this man i used to know - he would never have asked that question.

but then again we know - that they believe they are doing nothing wrong because THEY have announced that the separation is official, so it is not a matter of broken trust in their eyes...

i have already decided to do one thing through this process - to treat it as I would a business transaction. Would I do this with a stranger, would I accept these terms with a person I was doing fair business practice with?

and i have also decided that if h starts geting nutty I will say those same words to him.

only catch - i've never really done any business transactions before grin - there's another 180 for me

ng - you and vera have already gone through this - thank you for sitting next to me as i have my turn.

you are a dear dear friend

{{{{{{{{ }}}}}}}}}
zig


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"In my opinion, you would only be procrastinating if there were something active that you were purposefully not doing, such as not responding to the D complaint or not providing discovery information."

well there is one thing i have actively not done - i haven't really found out if starting the D proceedings will affect the immigr. status or not. i told h that i would have to pay an immigr. lawyer to find out for sure and it's expensive so i'm waiting to earn some money from my new job to do it.

he told me i should look into free help for that - and i said i would, but haven't remembered to do it!! i'll be honest and say i'm using that a bit to slow down this thing - but then i am beginning to think if i stall too much it could work against me by making him impatient.

maybe dropping the rope means calling him and saying happily after i find out - green light go ahead, it's not going to affect my status!!!

you're right - vera - how ABOUT some short term goals for me on this one.

I will right a list and post them tomorrow.

i did let this stuff go and went to play Planet Earth with s. we had fun

highlight of the evening:

I've learned that the largest ass in the world lives in Tibet and is 83" long.

Why anyone would ever need to know that is beyond me, but I got a particular thrill out of learning that little tidbit!! Now just need an appropriate place to apply that knowledge grin

do my posts sound tense and spinning? i really hope not - in spite of the topic i don't feel all that stressed - just very calmly trying to figure it out - and that is unusual for me, isn't it? it's almost as if i'm detached from it and see it from a distance - sort of like ok i have to face this now, lets find out what it's about

too bad on the nightcap - will have to have it on the blanket - not a drop in the house!! but i don't really feel the need for it anyway smile

thanks again vera - and that post to ng was sort of to tell you about it too

((((( ))))))
zig


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Well then yes, that is a little bit of procrastination on your status!! I would look into that asap not bc it would help him but because it could affect you AND S. And then when you figure out the answer I would just keep it in your pocket and not mention it until your H brings it up. If it won't affect your status, a breezy response seems appropriate.

Since you aren't sure what to look at numbers wise, maybe check out a book on amazon or something to walk you through it.

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Well then yes, that is a little bit of procrastination on your status!! I would look into that asap not bc it would help him but because it could affect you AND S. And then when you figure out the answer I would just keep it in your pocket and not mention it until your H brings it up. If it won't affect your status, a breezy response seems appropriate.

Since you aren't sure what to look at numbers wise, maybe check out a book on amazon or something to walk you through it.

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Originally Posted By: zig
highlight of the evening:

I've learned that the largest ass in the world lives in Tibet and is 83" long.

Why anyone would ever need to know that is beyond me...


Well, obviously it's important to know that the world's largest ass isn't your wayward partner! grin


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hahaha!

i can't say that that thought did NOT enter my head as i read that!


me 46 H 38
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BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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