DB Bootcamp - zig and sgctxok, and various

[zig]

thanks sg - and for the confidence in me. I swear i'm not getting why yet, but i decided that instead of resisting i would at least act 'as if'., until i do feel more confident!!

how's that for applying my DB skills

as for being queen - well, do queens get their strawberry icon j

just kidding!! well.....maybe not

as for setting goals and being neglectful about it - i was guilty of the same this last few weeks. - off to set some!!

[zig]

hi sg - don't know if you are around. just thought i'd check in with you.

thanks for giving me this "job" . i'm beginning to see what the real benefits are. as i help other people refine their goals, it helps me to see where i am at and how i can improve and grow.

i finally ordered the Keeping love alive cd's and they arrived today. listened to the first one, so am eager to go through the rest.

there was a bit of a "development' today in my sitch. h had made an apptmt for us to meet with the mediator next tuesday, but when i mentioned that i would probably have a L look at the stuff, he went ballistic and said that if i was using a lawyer then there was no point in keeping that appointment, and he cancelled it saying he would file the papers himself

originally 2 weeks ago he said that the reason he wanted to use the mediator was because "you know me i'll never get around to all that paperwork, and the she will take care of that"

he insisted that me using a L was because i saw him as a threat, but i calmly insisted that i was not doing it to protect myself against him, but just to protect myself. and made it really clearly that it was his decision to cancel, even if he was using me seeing the L as the reason. that was because he kept saing that he'd have to cancel because of what i was going to do

i'm seeing a new pattern here - a lot of the things h said to me at BD and in the months after - they are reversing in some way and i am saying them to him - not verbatim but along the same lines.

about the affair - he repeatedly said "i'm not doing this to you, i'm just doing it"

only after i wrote what i said to him today, i realized that i sort of said the same thing back to him.

he now wants us to sit and discuss this weekend how we are going to split everything up exactly, and then he's going to file.

i have not been entirely responsible for myself and looked into what my rights are etc, or what i should expect. so am a tiny bit nervous about the conversation.

do you have any advice for me, or for how i should handle this new scenario?

it would be much appreciated.

also if any other vets can help me here, i would love to hear form you all

thanks
zig

[vera be fierce]

Hey zig,

No big advice but keep in mind that you don't have to agree to everything or anything during your talk. You are fully entitled to say "I'll have to think about that" or "I'll have to get back to you on that ." If he presses you for an answer or starts spewing again (his control shenanigans with you talking to an L and canceling the mediation were just that) you can just tell him that you're not trying to confound him, you just want to make sure you get to a fair and appropriate settlement. When you talked to your L, did you get a sense of what would be fair for you to get?

I had another thought but lost it because it takes forever to type on my phone.... If I think of it I'll come back.

Good luck ((( )))

[zig]

thanks vera - i had also decided, for lack of knowing any better right now, to say the same things as you suggested.

in some ways i feel it is a passive approach - because i have not been to talk to a lawyer yet.

i'm struggling with that - i don't know if it's because of the money - that's what i'm telling myself. but to be really candid, i think it's because i don't want to deal with any of it and avoid it altogether.

and that brings me of course to what i am facing within myself - how i avoid painful things , or things i don't want to do by putting the responsibility on someone else.

one could say it's different here - h is the one who wants this, but to tell the truth, if i agree to co-operate, then i should be doing my part here.

as for him controlling by cancelling the mediator apptmt because i would use a lawyer - i actually sense that he was looking for an excuse - any excuse to do so.

he made that apptmt within days of coming back from seeing ow - all fired up about being with her. and then a week later was so irritated with her for being upset when he said she could not come, and i can't help but wonder if he is rethinking what he's doing

of course - speculation - but it is combined with a certain amount of observation and intuition on my part here. but what do i know - i'm not in his head

all i do know is that he jumped on that so fast huffing and puffing about it all, that it seemed a rather odd reason to use to cancel

any insight would be welcome

thanks zig

[vera be fierce]

and that brings me of course to what i am facing within myself - how i avoid painful things , or things i don't want to do by putting the responsibility on someone else.

one could say it's different here - h is the one who wants this, but to tell the truth, if i agree to co-operate, then i should be doing my part.

I do think there is a difference between not wanting to be an avoider and taking on the work of doing the D. Are you DONE done? If your answer is no as I grieve it is

[vera be fierce]

Oh geez, sorry, major phone fart!

If you are not DONE, don't think that you need to take on the burden of doing the work to get a D in the name of not being an avoider. Get your ducks in a row because your H's actions suggest he wants a D (not the canceling the mediation, you're right that we don't know his motivations). But you don't need to do the work FOR him. Make sense?

[zig]

you're right - i wasn't feeling like i had to take on the burden. i've made it clear to him that i won't help him.

if i were totally honest i would say i may be tryings to procrastinate and slow down the process by being "inactive"

and i'm trying to figure out if that's me just not wanting to face what i have to - like this conversation or that i'm simply trying to slow down the process

an interesting horoscope for tomorrow which i though realy lays it out well what position i can take, in fact slightly uncanny -

"Be very careful that, when you discuss plans with others, they understand you regard the arrangements you're currently organising as but one stage in a process of exploring your options. While you love considering various options, they don't. Get them involved only once you're done exploring and are ready to settle on one plan."

thanks vera - i love talking with you - you are so calm about this. i guess i'm calm but feeling sort of numb today

zig

[needgrace]

Hey zig,

No big advice but keep in mind that you don't have to agree to everything or anything during your talk. You are fully entitled to say "I'll have to think about that" or "I'll have to get back to you on that ."

PERFECT, vera. I said that a lot during my talks w/ W...but I was also ready so when she mentioned an outrageous number, I could take her back to the facts.. so that she would not stay stuck on it..

i would let her know why i thought her numbers were not fair but i would not counter..

not till much later when i was truly ready..

and after i had run the numbers by some very trusted friends who are really good numbers/$ people..

one of them told me i was giving up too much and explained why which really helped me.

i pride myself on being a good numbers person but when the heart is involved it is easy to make mistakes..

love you, zig..

[vera be fierce]

if i were totally honest i would say i may be tryings to procrastinate and slow down the process by being "inactive"

and i'm trying to figure out if that's me just not wanting to face what i have to - like this conversation or that i'm simply trying to slow down the process

Either way it gives you the gift of time that Cadet is find of mentioning. I get what you're saying about procrastinating. In my opinion, you would only be procrastinating if there were something active that you were purposefully not doing, such as not responding to the D complaint or not providing discovery information. You're not there yet. For now it is good to stand still. I don't think Pema would say that is procrastinating

So how about some short term goals re getting your ducks in a row... Finding a few Ls to call, having a list of your individual and joint assets and liabilities if you don't already, recent tax returns, things that you think will or could be issues w your H. Those are things you could do to face what you have to do w/o actively moving toward D. You can take steps to protect yourself and arm yourself with info w/o.necessarily moving that process along. Knowledge is power

Get some rest tonight dear zig, maybe a nightcap and some stretching to help you get relaxed

[zig]

ng - you and vera are so good to me. i've left this to the last minute to even find out what it is all about.

i'm embarassed to say i haven't even let my mind go there to find out what numbers i would even look at.

what numbers were you looking at? to buy out her share of the condo?

i don't even think there is anything to complain about where h is concerned. he doesn't want anything, i don't think. he wants me to buy out his share of the house - which is very little- he's insisting the rest of it is mine, because my parents helped us pay it off. he doesn't want to touch my investment, which is why i think he got so upset when i said that we can't use that money for joint living expenses.

he's shared his paycheck with me this entire year. i don't know what he will be proposing but will find out when we talk. he's carried the financial burden ever since my accidents in 2007, so he's done more than his fair part.

so apart from "giving up" health insurance, there's not much else i would be giving up - except having to buy out his share, which frankly is not really that fair to him - he's only counting it as the money his parents put into buying this house - not the years of him working to pay the mortgage on the last house.

in fact, unless he's got something up his sleeve, he's walking away with nothing - i'm sitting with a house and car paid off, and just my bills to cover. he's going to have a mortgage and return that money to his parents- idk, so part of the reason i haven't looked into it, is i simply don't know what to look into. he'll take his truck and we do have ceramic studio equipment worth quite a lot in storage - and i imagine, knowing us , it will just stay there and we'll decide not to deal with it until later

alimony? child support - why should he support me if we have shared custody?

everyone seems to think he should. i don't know if i am going to have a steady income like him or not - and the way it looks certainly no retirement plan anywhere on the horizon - so i guess i will have to look into all of that...someone said something about being eligible for their 401 K if you are married a certain amount of years.

he seems to even be open to the idea of sort of waiting for my citizenship to come through = the "lucky" part there is that there is no way to even begin to get an answer from the immigration dept. about how long before it goes through.

so in that sense, h is not acting like the bad guy here at all. in fact he seems so riddled with guilt that he is going the other way - overcompensating.

and then of course, i ask myself - is it right to think of him like this and trust him still?

he accused me of not trusting him in that phone call - and i stayed quiet - but thought to myself - where is this man i used to know - he would never have asked that question.

but then again we know - that they believe they are doing nothing wrong because THEY have announced that the separation is official, so it is not a matter of broken trust in their eyes...

i have already decided to do one thing through this process - to treat it as I would a business transaction. Would I do this with a stranger, would I accept these terms with a person I was doing fair business practice with?

and i have also decided that if h starts geting nutty I will say those same words to him.

only catch - i've never really done any business transactions before - there's another 180 for me

ng - you and vera have already gone through this - thank you for sitting next to me as i have my turn.

you are a dear dear friend

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zig