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LIO - sorry to hear about that rough conversation.

One phrase that has worked for me as a response (perhaps less wordy than what you have above about not doing work for him) is "I'm sure you'll be able to figure it out." You are right to let him puff around.

It helped me initially to think of STBX as having a MLC mental illness (even though it's not a formal diagnosis) because it was easier to forgive him that way. I used that analogy with some friends who were livid about his actions and it calmed them down, too. Once the forgiveness took hold I reframed it a little.

Since you've already offered to take S to him, I would not bring that up again. If he wants you to do it he can bring it up later himself. Remember that you've been fired, so you don't need to do anything to comfort him.

You've come a long way - stay strong. You can do it.

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I know someone who hung in there for years and her H is back. It has been a long, drawn out process. She must have the patience of a saint! You have to decide for you. Your boundaries, your time line, your end result.

I wish at times that I had found this site wnen I first found out about his affair. Maybe it could have been different. Then again, maybe this was how it was supposed to be.

Kat


Me-53(and learning!)
S24, S21, D18, D17
Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
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Wow.... I just spoke with someone who had the voice of my husband if he were talking to a rude telemarketer. Gah. He was being incredibly secretive, vague and telling me that nothing he does was any of my business... (okay...? What is this from?) But not even this morning he was being nice and semi-talkative. I can't tell if the nice is him, or if it's because he's really using me and this house because S is here every single day/night (H's choice). He yelled that he would take S and I wasn't giving S to him (I told him as recent as Monday he needed to start coming to get S and leave the house and H didn't do that at all). Then as I said 'you want to TAKE HIM? Take him? How do you mean?' because I wasn't sure what he meant... And click, hung up on.

So sounds like another night at a bar (with a younger coworker, male I guess, don't know without seeing the person and it's a gender neutral name). He feels the need to be so secretive and lying, I don't get it. He would always tell me he was going out with x person, and I said "okay, have fun, see ya when you get home." Never said no. He'd call during the time too. Such an alien experience right now.

Funny thing is that just a few years ago, he used to laugh at his 'older' coworkers who would try to be cool and hang with the mid 20ish crowd. They would be eyeing the younger ladies they worked with, flirting shamelessly, and... have affairs. He thought it was all ridiculous how they were acting. I asked him what kind of work place this was that this was so acceptable at (I work with 85% women).

Heard the same old thing: "I'm trying to get a divorce, and you won't let me move on." Me thinking: Umm... okay. You let the paperwork expire, I'm not showing up at the house every day at 6 am and using my son as a way to say what I want. I'm not using your shower, your washer, your fridge, your food, your couch. I honestly can't even get into this on here any more because I don't see the point. It's arguing with a record player.

I'm trying to be indifferent... and I don't know how. I admit I am fired up because I had to a HUGE 180 for me. He hung up and I DID NOT call him back. I turned off my phone so I don't text (not gonna happen) and I won't call nor answer any calls.

So questions:
How to be indifferent.
Is me going dark when H's over here every single day punishing? Bolt the main door and make him ring every morning?... I avoided doing that because I wanted to keep the road paved and clear. Have S ready at 6 and say 'here you go have fun at dad's place' and force it? I am not wanting to be too reactive right now, but I know I am (one of my 180's I'm TRYING to work on). I wanted to keep the road paved, but fight the urge to sledgehammer it to the point of no return. So I'm posting first before doing...



Two bright notes: a couple of coworkers noticed my weight loss (7 lbs in the last week + 20 pounds (stress) in the last 5 months) and said I was looking good and that if I continued I'd be too thin (not true! but nice to hear).

I have been running with a couple other coworkers on Wednesdays. I am trying to get my 5k times down, and had a great training session today and hit my pace of trying to get to 9:30 pace (from my 13:30 usual time) for 2 laps. Now just need to keep adding 1 lap at a time to get it to a mile!


Me& h + S
M: 13 t: 14

H moved 2/12. Own apt 05/12, EAs, PAs, gfriends, oh my!
I'm done. 12/12

"I get knocked down, but I get up again.. you're never gonna keep me down" Chumbawumba
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Well, Friday went exceptionally well. H stayed the night (downstairs of course). I was surprised. Then Saturday H went into meltdown mode because he felt I was overriding his plans (IE BEING controlling). Check.

Sunday - some good parts, some AWFUL parts.
Lessons learned: enjoy the good - ignore the rest.

H told me that he emailed a couple of his good male friends that he and I have known for years that he *might* be getting divorced. Okay... Might is better then WILL. But I was still embarrassed that now they knew. I overreacted. New 180 here to do.
I should have been happy that he finally reached out to his friends instead of keeping it all bottled up. They offered to talk to him, but he has not taken them up on it. H, S, and I attended all of their weddings, and they are definitely good strong family men - so if he does open up to them, then so what. I did tell him this today. Not that my opinion matters much - but I wanted to acknowledge my overreaction as a correction.

I *sense* that H is still around because he IS giving me a chance to redeem myself - despite what he says. His actions are NOT matching his words. He has some work to do too - and this separation is helping me see how I look to him. It's not pretty to see that reflection.

I see our family dynamics are different. He didn't grow up in a family that talks things out. I did. His was alcoholic and emotionally stunted (push/pull emotional hostage-type relationship between his parents). He's raging against our relationship that turned into his parents (as am I. I just didn't see my role in it too).

On a good note, even if it didn't work out between H and I, I am still grateful for that opportunity to correct it.

So 180's for the month:
Well one: SLOW DOWN.
Slow down my reactions. Slow down my tongue.Not reacting to the bad. Acknowledge the good.
No fighting. It's not worth the casualty (our son). My H sees this. I 'said' I did, but I didn't 'see' it. I see it. I was too wrapped up in *my* fears (projected or not).
Learned to not ask H about what he is doing.
Focus on work this week. One thing at a time.

Oh and that secretive bar meet up with the 'younger' coworker with the gender neutral name? Yeah, try middle age, male. Thank you facebook. You know what they say about assumptions. So yep. There's another one to work on.


Me& h + S
M: 13 t: 14

H moved 2/12. Own apt 05/12, EAs, PAs, gfriends, oh my!
I'm done. 12/12

"I get knocked down, but I get up again.. you're never gonna keep me down" Chumbawumba
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Yes focus on the good but rather than ignore the rest(the awful) is there something to be learned there? No one really likes to examine the dark bad parts of situations but I think one can learn so much form taking a look.

So were things awful because of speaking before thinking, letting the hurt side of you lead you, trying to get him to see things your way? Listening is an activity. Don't try to think of what you want to say next but listen to what he says. Do his actions concur with his words? By actively listening, you should actually be a bit tired after paying so much attention to someone else.

Keep on this path. You are doing well.

kat


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Thank you Kat.

Unexpected turn of events...
We have an offer on the house (good)
H has wanted to get this house sold, and was willing to split the remaining amount owed with me.
Got a call from the sheriff's office - process server is looking for me today. I saw someone out taking a picture of my car earlier this morning. Thought it was odd.

So apparently the week of the 15th came and went last week (what is happening on that week!?) and he decided he needed to go down and do this and didn't say a word to me for 7 days about it. (I did ask him and he said he had a manager's meeting. I told him that I had been journaling and every 15th or around that date, he either calls me to yell at me about divorce, or he moves out, files, moves out again and files again). My interaction with him last week now makes sense.

What that means is if the processor actually finds me - the house sale will not be able to go through in my state until the D is done.

I called H and talked about the house. Then said "so did you do anything last week? because I got a call from the processor looking to serve me. Serving me means we can't sell the house until the D actually happens". He then got upset/angry and said 'well then as soon as the house sells, you need to go take care of it. YOU didn't take care of it last time and it's been well over 90 days." I did not handle this interaction well. I cried. So much for 180s. I did not yell, scream or anything like that - but I said that I was trying to give him as much space/time as he needed rather than just rushing through a D. He had told me several times earlier he was miserable and I told him on the phone: "you say you are miserable and I've been very accommodating to you during this time. You haven't even fully experienced what it is like to be divorced and not have full access to our home, our tv/internet, and you see your kid ANY time you want - rather then on court appointed days." Nor does he care about how good some of our interactions have been. Or how he has been in/out of my house as he pleased. Or how he wanted to initiate sex this last Sat and Sun despite me trying to not talk to him. Even this Wednesday, he asked me questions about a computer, told me the news, his plans, and asked me mine. Much more interaction then normal.
H told me that he doesn't 'feel' anything, about 'anything'. He just wants to be S(5)'s "Friend". I said 'you mean "FATHER" right?' Talking to me on the phone upset him because he couldn't 'deal with it' and he hung up on me 15 times. He got mad and said didn't understand why I was acting blindsided (again). AND didn't want to talk about it. He just wanted to read his book. I did say "you tell me on the phone that you don't want to come home (in Feb), and then you act like you want to be around me, then when it comes down to it, you went in last week, redid the work, lay down with me on Sat and Sun like you are interested in me, come over every morning early, make me breakfast, talk to me normally yesterday, and then ask me why I'm blindsided!?"

Allegedly he is going to call the court and get it rescinded until the house goes through (we will see if he does that). Otherwise I've got a lot of avoidance to do. And I don't feel particularly like hiding out - but I can't afford the house by myself for much longer either. Of course he wanted to help me negotiate the sale yesterday with no word about how he restarted this process.

I'm over it. I'm angry and I'm disappointed. I give up. I don't want to be friends with him either. I'm upset because I don't know him, and I really hate this version of him. I feel he is selfish and I've never known him to be like this, which makes me sad - but he said that about himself last month. I really wanted to be married to him because I loved him and he adored me and yes, all those dreams of the three of us living in one house, interacting as a intact family - upset me. That is gone. It's dead.

I stopped by where he said he would be so I could get the house paper signed and faxed because it was due by 5. (He lied about which site he was at when I asked because he didn't want me to 'create a scene', which I never have before...) I talked to his coworker who I knew before (and she knew that we were separated) but I tried to not talk about H - just her baby and my kid. H called panicky... 7 times, and was messaging her asking if I was still there or was heading over.

I went to the site he finally told me he was at. He accused me of trying to create a scene by taking the long way around the building and taking my time when I left because I did park far away. (trying to relax, deep breaths, avoid any extra interaction with him was what I was doing) I didn't have anything else to say to him other than to get the house paper signed and turned in. He called me, panicky after I left, and accused me of still hanging around the building (nope) because he couldn't hear my car driving (yep. I was sitting in a parking lot not at his work - trying to finish my breathing and relax, avoid rush hour, and go pick up S without the extra stress).
He said I was making a scene... (I wasn't there...)
He said I stressed him out.
I said "I'm sorry that I stress you out. That is not my intention. Nor would I be interested in creating embarrassing scenes for you. I'm sorry if your perception is that of me, but that's not me. I don't gain anything by that - other than you would hate me. And I'm not that person."

And unfortunately I needed more papers signed without a scanner, so I had to go back (with S). H tried to engage me normally and when I only answered questions about the house, or smiled at what S was doing without commenting, and I only answered questions about S, H said 'Oh we can't be cordial?' I said: 'It wasn't cordial what went on today.' Maybe not the right answer...

Mission now: Kat's advice full speed. No more talking. At all. Kid and House. I thought he was coming around slowly by initiating talk about other topics. A ruse. He's going to be miserable, he's going to sigh when I don't respond other than a smile and as if I'm talking to a stranger. I was nice for 4 months and jumped on conversations if he initiated, or if he seemed more friendly. Like an idiot.

He is going to fully experience his new future now and I need to go dark for my own sanity. I'm leaving the house first thing in the morning tomorrow, and then on Sat/Sun I'm gone - with no communication to H. I've got the deadbolt locked now - no more walking in when he pleases - because I need to leave when he does that. He had that for 5 months. It didn't help. He will not stop at anything until he gets his D (and then we can 'remarry' as he says..ha.)


Me& h + S
M: 13 t: 14

H moved 2/12. Own apt 05/12, EAs, PAs, gfriends, oh my!
I'm done. 12/12

"I get knocked down, but I get up again.. you're never gonna keep me down" Chumbawumba
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Journal:
Doing some reading late last night....

I don't know how I stumbled on this last night but I'm reading "Overcoming Passive-Aggression: How to Stop Hidden Anger from Spoiling Your Relationships, Career and Happiness" and I think it's wonderful.

I don't think there was ONE thing for me to improve in my relationship with him. I'm not perfect but I was a good wife. I know everyone has room for improvement. He thinks I was controlling - so I am working on that. Not surprisingly, it's because a passive aggressive person seeks out a more controlling/dominant spouse.

I was reading about communication in the previous months. I will still try to do the process of validating, but communicating with a PA person is exactly what I've experienced. Silence. Just me talking. Then when he doesn't feel in control - he will act out. Reading about PA - when I am in contact with H, I am going to have to ask "

I'm not in contact with him. The Push/Pull makes sense now. He wanted to keep me at a distance so he never had to be vulnerable. Pushes me away - but pulls me back in just so he knows I'm still there. He pushed me away with the secret filing - but pulled me back in over the weekend.
He pushes buttons so he'd get a reaction (ie not communicating AT ALL, ignoring me... or making a comment - then backs off so I appear crazy as I start to escalate and become frustrated about not getting a resolution or feedback. And then comes in anger. <-- he then justifies it as if I'm crazy and my anger was unprovoked...
It makes sense.... I've told him several times: "you drop bombs and then walk away acting like you didn't. Leaving me to deal with the damage to S and me and wondering why I get mad at you, when you threw the bomb to begin with."

So now what:
I'm a logical person - logical arguments/discussion does not work. I usually use deductive techniques to get to the issue and resolution. There are other techniques I will start to practice.
I will start to ask "oh I see you feel x about y, how would you handle that?" and it forces him to have make a choice. If he doesn't answer then I will say: "It looks like you may have to think about it a little more?" and then I'm going to get busy doing something else. If I 'guide' him - it's controlling.

Now that I know this... It reframes my entire relationship with him. I don't know what kind of relationship I will have with him in the future. I DO know: I really AM NOT crazy. I do not have an 'anger' problem. Other people in this position have spent their time looking at what was wrong with themselves and fixing it. Reevaluating and fixing.

So I think I've analyzed H enough. I got it. I'm going to be setting up boundaries now. Because without boundaries, I see I compromise MY self.

I have my GAL stuff, I've got things I like doing. Friends. I'm not going to be treating every little breadcrumb of goodness like it's the whole cake.

We might not make it through this - but I'll be okay. I will feel sorry for whoever he gets involved with next though!


Me& h + S
M: 13 t: 14

H moved 2/12. Own apt 05/12, EAs, PAs, gfriends, oh my!
I'm done. 12/12

"I get knocked down, but I get up again.. you're never gonna keep me down" Chumbawumba
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When does he come out of his mood? This is normally his manic time but he isn't necessarily acting that way.

Best way to get through whatever is to come is to stay focused and don't let him draw you in. I don't know what he will do but really the lesson here is that you can only control yourself.

hang in there. kat


Me-53(and learning!)
S24, S21, D18, D17
Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
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Hey LIO. PAs are complete pros at the "double bind". It's great that you notice that and there are ways to successfully get out of them with minimal damage.

Read up about double bind if you get a chance.

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Kat: He usually comes out about now - there are some 'signs' of that - but nothing I'm hanging my hat on. He has stopped being hateful towards me, and is initiating a lot of morning conversations telling me about his plans along with breakfasts. I am currently working on the part where I don't get drawn into his mess.
I hear little comments such as'he wants to take S but I won't let him' - which is bait for me (we both know that I have told him several times that I was fine with it, but he still comes to the house).


KD: YES! - I just read about double-bind, and I've definitely experienced that. I am going to be reading more about PA.


Me& h + S
M: 13 t: 14

H moved 2/12. Own apt 05/12, EAs, PAs, gfriends, oh my!
I'm done. 12/12

"I get knocked down, but I get up again.. you're never gonna keep me down" Chumbawumba
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