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#2251790 - 06/06/12 06:38 PM Just spinning my wheels
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
My previous thread was "he's lost that loving feeling":

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2251424&page=1

I guess that's how you show it?

It's a natural break for me for a new thread.

1) I have an appointment with an IC for Monday. She shows "solution oriented therapy" as one of her choices. I'm looking forward to it.

2) H told me today on the phone some things have changed recently. He is going to talk R with me tomorrow in person. I'm feeling very emotional about it. He said it isn't D or another woman. He said he's not as interested in dating me any more. Thats all he would say. I'm guessing legal separation and/or dating other people but I guess MrBond would say I don't know what he's thinking so don't try to guess.

I need some support/encouragement for tomorrow. Just listen, right? Don't defend myself or make decisions at that time, right?

I feel a little panicked about it and patience isn't one of my better qualities.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2251792 - 06/06/12 06:50 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
Jack_Three_Beans Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 11373
"We need to talk" is seldom ever good.

"I want to talk about our Realtionship" and you can throw seldom out the window and add an N to ever.

Go in there without any good expectaions of the talk and you should be fine.

It's not mind reading, it's not being specific, he gave you apretty big clue:
Quote:

He said he's not as interested in dating me any more.


You go in and don't fight that? Argue it? that's a quick meeting and might throw him for a loop.
_________________________

Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis

Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans

Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK

TRUST THE PROCESS - Cadet


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#2251809 - 06/06/12 08:14 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: Jack_Three_Beans]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
First a hug ((()))

Jack gives good advice.

Do you want to see him, because it that's all he has to say...

Practice this: "You know, H, this R is no longer working for me either."

Read those 37 pointers right before he comes.

Do you have girlfriends around you? Or someone that you can call after?
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2251831 - 06/06/12 08:58 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Yes, I would like to see him here at home. We decided not to do it on the phone. Besides, he wants to come for a couple of hours to see the boys.

I'm scared. I don't want my life swirling down the crapper. It's not just a romantic relationship with him; it's an upheaval of all I've lived for and worked for and trusted in.

Not like everybody here hasnt gone through that. Just venting. I don't want to think about him ML with other women. I'd like to go far, far away from here. But I can't.

So, I talked to my sister on the phone for an hour and a quarter. She encouraged me that'll I'll land on my feet. Encouraged me to make sure he takes full responsibility for his side. And encouraged me not to make decisions tomorrow. And yes, I can call her after.

We also talked about ways to make new friends. She suggested a book club. Suggested getting S12 involved in local sports in our nearby town. And we talked about me getting my real estate license which I have wanted to for a long time.

So...I don't want to be in the here and now. My heart hurts. I have to believe I will heal. How will I ever act "as if" if I tell him the relationship isn't working for me either?

He may want to go to MC with me. He said he would tell me tomorrow. Is that a bad idea? Should I do both? IC and MC? Is that okay with the same therapist?
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
#2251834 - 06/06/12 09:04 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
vera be fierce Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 934
Originally Posted By: reachingHigher
Yes, I would like to see him here at home. We decided not to do it on the phone. Besides, he wants to come for a couple of hours to see the boys.

I'm scared. I don't want my life swirling down the crapper. It's not just a romantic relationship with him; it's an upheaval of all I've lived for and worked for and trusted in.

Not like everybody here hasnt gone through that. Just venting. I don't want to think about him ML with other women. I'd like to go far, far away from here. But I can't.

So, I talked to my sister on the phone for an hour and a quarter. She encouraged me that'll I'll land on my feet. Encouraged me to make sure he takes full responsibility for his side. And encouraged me not to make decisions tomorrow. And yes, I can call her after.

We also talked about ways to make new friends. She suggested a book club. Suggested getting S12 involved in local sports in our nearby town. And we talked about me getting my real estate license which I have wanted to for a long time.

So...I don't want to be in the here and now. My heart hurts. I have to believe I will heal. How will I ever act "as if" if I tell him the relationship isn't working for me either?

He may want to go to MC with me. He said he would tell me tomorrow. Is that a bad idea? Should I do both? IC and MC? Is that okay with the same therapist?


You don't have to give him any answers immediately. You can validate and say "I'd like to think about that for a little bit."

As for MC - you're getting ahead of yourself. If he's interested you can say "We can certainly look into that together."

MC/IC same person - only if both parties are okay with it; personally I would not do that but I believe others on here have. (I did it once where H went first and then I went with him jointly and I did not feel that I was treated fairly because she'd heard "his" side first.). You can talk about that with your IC, too.

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#2251841 - 06/06/12 09:34 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: vera be fierce]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Thanks, Vera. We had been talking about MC for a while. I need IC for myself. I suspect he wants MC only to prove it's over. But I don't know that for sure.

Recently he said he wanted MC to find out what really went wrong in our relationship.

There must be something that happened recently to trigger him to make a decision. I know he's been unhappy for a while with this arrangement. It's too much pressure to live two lives at the same time. He!! It's hard enough with one life!

I'll relax about tomorrow. He's really not been hasty in his decisions before.

I'm just not okay with "letting him go" and I've got to get to that point. I see the wisdom in GAL. I don't even work outside the home so unless I purposely go out to do things, I'm surrounded constantly with our life that we built here together. I think it's eating me up.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
#2251846 - 06/06/12 09:47 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Quote:
So...I don't want to be in the here and now. My heart hurts. I have to believe I will heal.


You will heal, it takes a while but it happens, like grieving any other loss.

Quote:
How will I ever act "as if" if I tell him the relationship isn't working for me either?


You can "act as if" but like Jack said, be prepared.

And as Vera say, you don't have to make any statements tomorrow. That's probably best.

Is the R working for you?
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2251852 - 06/06/12 10:19 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Not this R. It's not working for me.

Maybe some other R. But not this one. I can't imagine saying that out loud.
I guess I could practice. I'm so weak. frown

But it's true I hate living in limbo.

He called just now. We didn't talk about R. We talked about me getting my real estate license in Jul/Aug because of the money and the nights he'd have to stay with S12. We laughed and talked about getting our home we live in ready to sell if need be. I still have no idea what he's going to say. Didn't pressure him.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
#2251879 - 06/07/12 12:40 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
scaredsilly Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 1219
"I'm so weak. "

you're just scared. the most courageous things are done by people who are scared.

you can do this.
_________________________
M:63
H:53
S:41, SS:28, SS:25, SD:23
M:15
T:16

Bomb:12/17/11, "I think we should go our separate ways."
H moves to his mother's house, 4/1/12
12/21/12: H moves back home, piecing


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#2251880 - 06/07/12 12:58 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: scaredsilly]
unbidden Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/12
Posts: 647
Hang in there. You're stronger than you realize. God bless.

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#2251891 - 06/07/12 01:47 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: unbidden]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Thanks, so, so much!

I spent the late afternoon looking for some local things I would like to do. I joined a meet up photography club. I liked some pages on FaceBook so I can be notified of events in areas I'm interested in: bicycling, watersports and races, live music events, local water theme park for the boys and me.

I did it sort of absentmindedly but I realized it's very different looking at just things I want to do instead of "us". Feels selfish initially, but if I'm going to be alone, I need to have a life of my own. Just feels weird.

I sort of figured if I get bad news tomorrow it will be easier to take if I'm developing "me" instead of just being empty without "him".

The support on this forum is unbelievable! To have other people knowledgeable about "what works", willing to support their families and grow instead of walking away, and to help others too! It's awesome!

P.S. You are right, I'm scared silly too!
And unbidden, my son prayed for us all tonight. smile
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
#2251892 - 06/07/12 01:51 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Good for you!

Having a life outside the M helps so much.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2251902 - 06/07/12 02:28 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
vera be fierce Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 934
Just because you're doing it for yourself doesn't make it selfish! It does feel a little odd trying to meet our own needs if we've been overly concerned with meeting the needs of others for so long that we've forgotten how to really take care of ourselves!

Don't worry about whether you're going to hear "bad news." You're just getting information about what steps you need to take next. Practice validating ("I can understand how you feel that way.", for example) instead of defending yourself. (I converse with myself in my head while I'm in the shower so I feel like my responses come more naturally.) You can do it!

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#2252104 - 06/07/12 05:38 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: vera be fierce]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Thinking about you today.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

Top
#2252210 - 06/08/12 12:51 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Thanks, labug.

I felt great all day. I had a mostly sleepless night. But in the shower this morning I thought to myself, hey, I'm not the one walking away. I don't have any reason to feel bad! It kept me going through the day.


So...here's the deal. We had a nice visit. He replaced our R.O. filter with S12.
S12 loves doing things with his dad.

H and I drove in the car a couple miles to a special private spot we have used from time to time, overlooking some fields.
He talked. I listened. He cried. I was dry-eyed most of the time.

He felt he wanted to be honest with me and tell me he can't see ever coming back to this marriage, this home, this life with me.

And really, I wasn't threatened at all by that. I think I am learning so much here, I looked at it as a great opportunity (although I didn't say so).

I was so relieved it wasn't something else.

We talked about how life would be now, we are going to stop ML (he can't handle it emotionally). Stop going on dates. He'll come by the house twice a week as he is now.

It seems, somehow, to take a lot of pressure off of him. Something about sitting in a romantic restaurant or providing "date-type" situations when you don't have the feelings is excruciating. It's been hard for me too!

I suggested if he wants to try to do something with me, we should try something active instead of something where we are just sitting and looking at each other!

I read on the MLC forum for a while today. Don't know if this is just what that is.
He just wants to live his own life, unencumbered by the burdens of marriage/family.

He looked at me with tears and sobbed saying he remembers how it first was when we were together and knows it can never be that way again. But he would want that.

I told him I have an appointment with a C on Monday and he can come if he wants or not, I'm going anyway. He said he's leaning towards coming but doesn't want to commit.

I see he needs a LOT of space. Frankly, I'm relieved about the changes. It gives me a better chance to DB, I think.

Here are my plans:

1) follow the 37 rules, especially about not asking him any inappropriate questions.
He doesn't want ANY pressure.

2) continue GAL in a social way, at least one social activity per week.

3) continue to eat, sleep, breathe, exercise, take care of myself & boys

4) work on house, garden, yard, which have gotten into some disrepair (I enjoy working on those things)

He isn't asking for or wanting a D. He frankly doesn't know what to do. So we made the change of no ML or dates and I told him why don't we just try that for a while (he feels SO much less pressure) and we can re-evaluate after some time has gone by.

He just held me a lot in the car. We just acted like very good friends when we came to the house. We ate homemade ice cream with fresh peaches from our trees. It seemed very healthy (the attitude between us -- not meaning the food --lol!)

I feel much better too. More in control of ME!

Advice???
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
#2252212 - 06/08/12 01:00 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
vera be fierce Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 934
Aw, RH I think you handled that all really, really well!! I am glad that you are feeling better after this.

He is really asking for space without pressure and you see that. It is good that he was able to articulate this.

Your plan looks good. I think that, as you did, you can continue to invite him on things that you are already doing and leave the invitation open - if he wants to join, great, otherwise you are going to go and have a fabulous time anyway.

(( ))

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#2252213 - 06/08/12 01:04 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
I'm glad you feel better.

It sounds a lot like what my H has said to me even down to the not thinking of D. And here we are 14 months later.

It's given me an opportunity to become a person I didn't even know could exist.

Have no expectations. That will be the most difficult thing.

If it were me, I'd keep my C appt for me. Let him get his own if he wants.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

Top
#2252240 - 06/08/12 03:24 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
RoRoinMD Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 871
I think you handled the conversation great. I can imagine how much control it takes to just listen when having a conversation like that.

Love your goals. I think I need to add the do one social thing a week to my own list.
_________________________
Me:34
H:38
SS:19 - lives in NC with his mom
M:3
Bomb #1: 1/3/12 - We're not compatible. I want out.
Bomb #2: 1/12/12 - Found out about EA/PA
H moves out 10/2/12

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#2252268 - 06/08/12 11:55 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: RoRoinMD]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
I'm feeling rough this morning. Nights can be so difficult, you know? Hard not to think about things when you wake up.

After all, yesterday when we talked he said the next logical step is D but he's not thinking about that right now, nor prepared to go there. I know it took a lot of courage for him to tell me what he did. I know he loves and cares for me deep down inside. And he said so. He's just choosing a different life right now.

I wish I felt better about the DB techniques. I need more confidence. It's because they go against how we FEEL.

And I feel so sad right now. Like I have to remind myself to breathe.

Thanks for the encouragement ladies. I really needed that.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
#2252275 - 06/08/12 12:27 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
More journaling....

He said, yesterday, he wouldn't change the past if he could. He's glad to have had our relationship and we have had a lot of good times together. He said the most important and only long-lasting product out of it all is our two sons.

I need to concentrate on what I am going to be doing today.
Stop thinking about him.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
#2252284 - 06/08/12 12:56 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Oh, just a little more thinking about him. Lol. After all, we did have a big R talk yesterday.

He said that all the changes he's ever wanted me to make, I've done. He can't think of a single thing he would want differently about me, right now. It's just too late.

Is that just script? Is he really done with me?
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
#2252292 - 06/08/12 01:21 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
vera be fierce Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 934
^^ My H said similar things. That he was "getting everything he thought would make him feel better" and he still didn't feel better. I think it's really an indication that the problem is INSIDE THEIR HEADS and nowhere else.

So yes, it's script. Is he done with you? Well that's an entirely different matter. My question to you - does it matter if you are not done with him?

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#2252298 - 06/08/12 01:30 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Many of them say it's just too late. I don't know if it's "script" (that always makes me think there's a book they all read, when in fact we are the one's reading the same book. But I digress).

I think when they say it's too late they really feel that's it's too late.

Can they change? Yes.

Will they? Maybe, maybe not.

Your job is to focus on you and create the life you want. Be happy with or without him. I know right now that seems impossible.

But it's the key.

Leave him to his journey and you create yours.

He's made a choice that he doesn't want to be married right now.

Respect that. Don't act like his wife.

I know, like cutting off your right arm. I continued to act like "the wife" for far too long.

You might also think about not always being at the house when he comes to visit with the boys. As far as MC, he doesn't want to be married. I think it could be more harmful than helpful right now. Too much pressure. If he wants to do his own IC, great. You need time to work on you and grieve.

I think you're doing great right now for the amount of pain this creates.

It does get better. Early on I put a screen saver on my computer that says simply: It Will Be OK.

It's still there and it is OK.

Book Recommendation: When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

Top
#2252305 - 06/08/12 01:43 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: vera be fierce]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Yes, I have to listen deeper than his actual words.

I actually asked him yesterday if he was an alcoholic. He said no, but two nights ago he way overdid it at HP drinking by himself. He had texted with me at the time and I had the impression he was really struggling that day.

He said he doesn't enjoy going on dates with me but some are good, some not.

I remember last month one afternoon we just went to his pool (at his apartment), then went to eat and then I suggested a drive in his convertible. It was really good. We cranked up the music and sang together and felt the breeze. A calming, healing thing. But it's not always like that.

I have to remember if everything is like he wants it -- you are right -- the problem has to be with him!

But I want so much to fix it! I want so much to say, if the boys mean so much to you, why aren't you here?

S18 talked to me yesterday about feeling abandoned. S12 doesn't talk about his feelings but H & he were always unbelievably close. S12 is definitely not a mama's boy. He's a boy that can dig a grave with me (last month) for our beloved dog. And agree we had to put her down.

I see your wisdom. It's pointless to consider whether he is done with me if I am still committed to him.

Today I really need to focus. I'll work on my list, try to let the 37 rules sink in, and spend my free time reading advice on this forum. And not worry about my feelings. After all, that's what I see H doing -- operating on how he feels. I need to reach higher than that and do instead what works -- and aligns with my values.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
#2252312 - 06/08/12 01:59 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Thanks labug, I will read and reread and consider your advice.
You first line really made me laugh.

He gave me the "too little, too late" speech about four months ago.
This time it was just the "too late" speech.

He has his own IC, I definitely need mine too. It was just last week he said he thought MC might do us some good, so I wanted to leave the door open for him. Should he choose to do it, I'll look for my own IC right away. I definitely need it.

There's some advice here on the forum about how to act as a friend. I copied it and will review that too.

On a different note, perhaps a reality check for him, he told me yesterday he was shocked about how much money we (he) spent last month. He even took our hybrid car again back to HP instead of his gas-guzzling convertible. We lost a little out of our savings and I think he did all the partying without considering the financial cost of it. I think that's good for him to think about that and am glad it was him that noticed it -- not me bringing it up.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
#2252314 - 06/08/12 02:02 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
A caution...

Quote:
I remember last month one afternoon we just went to his pool (at his apartment), then went to eat and then I suggested a drive in his convertible. It was really good. We cranked up the music and sang together and felt the breeze. A calming, healing thing. But it's not always like that.


This is seeing it through your lens. Do you really know if it was that for him? Let go of that.

The alcohol lends another layer to the craziness. But again, his to deal with.

Don't deny your feelings. Feel them and work through them. Don't be afraid of them but don't let them rule you.

…feelings like disappointment, embarrassment, irritation, resentment, anger, jealousy, and fear, instead of being bad news, are actually very clear moments that teach us where it is that we’re holding back. They teach us to perk up and lean in when we feel we’d rather collapse and back away. They’re like messengers that show us, with terrifying clarity, exactly where we’re stuck. This very moment is the perfect teacher, and, lucky for us, it’s with us wherever we are.~Pema Chodron

I wish you lived closer, I think we could talk for hours.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2252315 - 06/08/12 02:05 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Amen!
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2252320 - 06/08/12 02:12 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Just read your post about the money. Protect yourself.

You won't like hearing this but it would be prudent to talk to an attorney and make sure you and the boys are safe.

I saw an attorney within a couple of weeks of H moving out just to know the facts. You don't have to tell H this.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2252325 - 06/08/12 02:36 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Yes, I suppose it's time for that. Sigh.

In March, one of my friends tried to push me, almost force me into getting my own checking account and a car in my name. It's cause it's what SHE did when her H walked out for a year, 20 years ago. I didn't appreciate the pressure.

H might have already seen a lawyer and not told me. He talked about it.

How did you know I wouldn't like it? Am I that transparent?

It would be good to know the facts. Sigh, again. I'll put it on my list.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2252327 - 06/08/12 02:40 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
No one likes it.

It seems so final but it really isn't, just a fact-finding mission.

I felt much better after talking to him.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2252330 - 06/08/12 02:44 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
His poorly fitting toupee helped lighten my mood.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2252331 - 06/08/12 02:44 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Hahahaha!
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2252691 - 06/09/12 10:36 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
At lunch today I asked S12 and S18 if they wanted to go with me in H's convertible to an excellent natural history museum. Their eyes lit up!

We just got back -- really enjoyed the ride and the visit. I didn't "check-in" with FaceBook as has been my custom in the past, or H would have seen I was there.

I'm trying to evaluate "more of the same" behaviors I'm doing to try to identify 180's I can do. I know I'm too talkative -- including electronically and quick to say what I'm doing in a chatty way -- just to make connection with H. I don't think that is working.

I'm pretty frightened it could be the end of M since Thursday he told me he can't see ever coming back to M. But...then he told me he'll come to MC with me on Monday. Had the impression he meant more than one MC session, but it's hard to say how it'll go.

I reread in DR about therapists. I'd like to try to read as much of DR (again) as possible before MC date.

I'm struggling with wanting to contact H. I have to remember I want him to miss ME. Its obvious I already miss him!

He's coming tomorrow for lunch and afternoon. It will be the first time I will be around him since his new revelation about not wanting to ever come back. So...no expectations....except probably some differences....I sort of AM expecting no hand-holding, no snuggling, no napping together, no ML, etc. It will be different than ever before. Struggling with these changes.

I tried to remind myself what a treasure I have in my sons. They are wonderful boys.

I tried to remind myself things weren't always great when H was around either. Why do we feel so attracted to the OP so much when being around them wasn't even always great?

I also tried to remember that in many sitches the WAS says right away they are ending the R. And the LBS has no warning. And the DR techniques still work. So, I need to have more faith in the techniques.

Trying to focus my thoughts on the good parts of my life. There are many. Just a lot of different emotions swirling through my brain these days.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2252696 - 06/10/12 12:23 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
scaredsilly Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 1219
Sometimes I think our greatest fears are change and loneliness. Our m's weren't that great be they were known. The unknown is scary.
_________________________
M:63
H:53
S:41, SS:28, SS:25, SD:23
M:15
T:16

Bomb:12/17/11, "I think we should go our separate ways."
H moves to his mother's house, 4/1/12
12/21/12: H moves back home, piecing


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#2252732 - 06/10/12 03:29 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
jks Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 623
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: reachingHigher

I tried to remind myself things weren't always great when H was around either. Why do we feel so attracted to the OP so much when being around them wasn't even always great?


I think it goes back to wanting what you can't have. Also, absence does make the heart grow fonder. We just too easily take things for granted which is probably the greatest lesson to learn from all of this. Our children and our spouses may not be in our lives forever, so now is the time to start checking our priorities.

Huge wake up call... I think everyone feels that during this process.

The thing that keeps my spirits up when I start to have negative thoughts creep in is... if I continue to do the things I should be doing then I know I will be taken care of. I will be happy no matter what. It may not be the future I always pictured with H by my side, but I will be happy nonetheless.

I think my H can feel that from me and it seems to ease tension between us a lot. Which is a much better way of interacting, IMO. It makes you feel good about yourself that you're rising above.

And, just so you know, my H said all the same things to me. He didn't think we would ever work... things are different and he's changed and he doesn't feel the same way about me, blah, blah, blah... Your H feels that way RIGHT NOW, but he won't always feel that way if things start to change between the two of you. So make positive changes for yourself and see where it takes you.

I hope for the best for you.
_________________________
Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.



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#2252791 - 06/10/12 02:23 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: jks]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Hope your day with H goes OK.

Try to have no expectations. I fear that seeing him more is going to get that roller coaster going full-speed.

And remember this from 25: "I comforted myself with the knowledge that "Hey I have become the best woman I can become, and I know this, so I will leave the results up to God."
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2252798 - 06/10/12 02:48 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
Tinman Offline
Member

Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 181
ReachingHigher- Thanks for sharing. I have been reading your posts and I am very impressed with how you are handling each situation with such strength. I hope that I am able to be as strong when it comes to my own situations!
_________________________
M-45
W-44
2D - 11&13
2SS - 11&17
Married 10/10/10
Bomb 3/5/12
Moved 5 houses away 4/20/12
Back together 9/12
Seperated 6/13
Divorce Final 11/13/13

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#2252922 - 06/11/12 12:20 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: Tinman]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US


PART 1:

Still spinning my wheels! No DB today.

I rode my bike 15 miles this morning then worked on mowing and weed-eating;
H showed up 2 hours earlier than expected!

I was struggling a little with my emotions but doing okay. You know how you look at each other and connect and in the past there would have been a hug and kiss? But now there isn't? It was like that.

Then he asked how much I thought we could sell the house for. So we got into it -- what would I do to support myself if he leaves, where would I live, etc. He is convinced the boys would be unaffected by a divorce. But he's worried about me. Doesn't want to leave me alone. So he cried. I cried.

He said he doesn't want to be married is all. He said all relationships dissolve after a while. He said his life isn't that great without me either.

So more tears ... And you guessed it ... Crash & burn ... Cuddling, holding, all of it. Very emotional for both of us.

I told him, "it was just the moment. I won't think any differently because of it!"

He said that he is going to MC tomorrow just because I asked. He has no agenda.

Going on this forum sometimes feels like going naked in front of a bunch of strangers.
I guess it is baring all emotionally.

I wish I could say...I wish I knew what to do. Because I think I know what to do.
Just don't want to do it. frown

H is out with S18 now trying to teach him how to drive a manual transmission car.

PART 2:

I'm considering the thought of spinning my wheels. I'm considering by clingy, needy behavior I have not brought H's heart closer to my own.

At this point, it's almost like I have nothing to lose by really DB'ing.

He just left. He said he doesn't know what to do sometimes. I reassured him that just because we ML it doesn't mean I think his feelings have changed. He looked relieved.
I said we have always used that as a way to connect, that's all.

Then we talked about where to meet for MC tomorrow.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2252937 - 06/11/12 01:52 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
I'm chugging on the roller coaster up! I'm ready to kicka$$ DB'ing!

I thought for a while how if only I could return to who I was when H & I first met. But I can't.

Then, I thought, well, I'll just be the awesome wife that I wasn't all these years. But I can't do that either when he doesn't want to be my husband.

Then, I thought, I need to compete with the girls that are in his "drinking buddies" group. But that's a ridiculous idea.

So...now I think...I want a "new and improved" version of who I really am, right now. Who I could be, with my own dreams and goals. That seems like the best solution!
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2252939 - 06/11/12 02:01 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
S.S. You are absolutely right. We will cling to the known, fearing the unknown. The loneliness is so difficult. Especially at night!

jks - if only my absence made his heart grow fonder!! Lol! I guess that's sort of the DB idea. Letting him miss your love.
I appreciate all the things you wrote. You have a lot of wisdom.

Labug -- thanks for the post. Except where I messed up today; the rest of it was great! I like the quote. It leaves you with a sense of peace.

Tin man -- such an encouragement! Thanks so much! I wasn't strong at all times today. But I'm growing. We all are!
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2252944 - 06/11/12 02:31 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
sophiedaphne Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/12
Posts: 293
Your situation seems so similar to mine. His emotions. Wanting to hold you and hug you and cry to you. What he has said. It all sounds so much like what I am going through right now, too.

I haven't gotten to the point of improving myself yet, though. I'm happy that you've found things that you like that you can do for yourself.

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#2252947 - 06/11/12 02:39 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: sophiedaphne]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
s.d. I haven't read your thread. I'll do that. It'll help me to know I'm not alone.

I had an idea here tonight while I'm in a PMA. When H doesn't call or text or show the level of desire I want him to, each time I have looked at it as a reject letter from him. You know? What if I looked at it as an opportunity each time?

If I'm growing, and (appear most of the time to be) happy, each time he chooses not to share in that he is missing out!

PLUS, I have the added bonus of a measure of peace about the situation if I'm not obsessing about him.

I just so want to get control of me in this situation!

Thanks for your post!
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2252948 - 06/11/12 02:48 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
jks Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 623
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: reachingHigher


I had an idea here tonight while I'm in a PMA. When H doesn't call or text or show the level of desire I want him to, each time I have looked at it as a reject letter from him. You know? What if I looked at it as an opportunity each time?

If I'm growing, and (appear most of the time to be) happy, each time he chooses not to share in that he is missing out!


Exactly, he IS missing out. He will feel that sooner or later. And, if you continue this way, I'm sure you'll start to notice changes in him.

I keep telling myself... there's no way a person can spend 10+ years with another person and not miss them at all. It isn't possible. They never would have spent all that time with you if there weren't some good times. And there always is good times. Right now, they just can't remember... or choose not to remember.

You being happy will help him remember.
_________________________
Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.



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#2252951 - 06/11/12 02:53 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Quote:
I just so want to get control of me in this situation!


Put your energy here and your life will change.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2253064 - 06/11/12 03:12 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US

Had a small dip down in the roller coaster ride going up this morning when S12 complained about breakfast. Why do little things set me crying? I wanted to say, it's not about breakfast, it's about missing H.

But, I had a great workout this morning so the endorphins were still kicking in.

I'm totally together now, looking forward to MC this afternoon with H.

I'm thinking about my part in why our M fell apart. I'm thinking it's the same reason it's not coming back together. Needy, clingy behavior. I had it during our M too. I find it repulsive in other people. I am starting to find it repulsive in myself also.

I want to be confident, cocky even. Get my mojo back. I had it when H & I started dating. I get to drive H's convertible to the MC and that is always super fun for me.

I was thinking about being me, a confident happy me. And if M doesn't work out, I'll still be the confident happy me.

I pictured the kind of girl H wants to fall desperately, passionately in love with. I know from our conversations he is ready for that. And he wanted it to be me. And I know I wasn't being that girl. I know I can be that girl. And that's who I want to be -- not for him --for me! But, hey, if I could have him back, that would be exciting!!!! And if he's not ready for that with me? His loss!
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2253066 - 06/11/12 03:16 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
vera be fierce Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 934
Originally Posted By: reachingHigher
I want to be confident, cocky even. Get my mojo back. I had it when H & I started dating.

I was thinking about being me, a confident happy me. And if M doesn't work out, I'll still be the confident happy me.

I know I can be that girl. And that's who I want to be -- not for him --for me! But, hey, if I could have him back, that would be exciting!!!! And if he's not ready for that with me? His loss!


A+ wink

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#2253073 - 06/11/12 03:33 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
needgrace Offline
Member

Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 1345
Originally Posted By: reachingHigher

And that's who I want to be -- not for him --for me!


Love your whole post but especially love this part!
_________________________
Me(f): 51 W: 41
DP:8 M:3 T:10
"W not happy" 7/11
D final: 8/13

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#2253085 - 06/11/12 04:24 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
RoRoinMD Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 871
Originally Posted By: reachingHigher

I want to be confident, cocky even. Get my mojo back. I had it when H & I started dating. I get to drive H's convertible to the MC and that is always super fun for me.

I was thinking about being me, a confident happy me. And if M doesn't work out, I'll still be the confident happy me.

I pictured the kind of girl H wants to fall desperately, passionately in love with. I know from our conversations he is ready for that. And he wanted it to be me. And I know I wasn't being that girl. I know I can be that girl. And that's who I want to be -- not for him --for me! But, hey, if I could have him back, that would be exciting!!!! And if he's not ready for that with me? His loss!


THIS IS SO GOOD!!!
_________________________
Me:34
H:38
SS:19 - lives in NC with his mom
M:3
Bomb #1: 1/3/12 - We're not compatible. I want out.
Bomb #2: 1/12/12 - Found out about EA/PA
H moves out 10/2/12

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#2253246 - 06/12/12 12:31 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: RoRoinMD]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Had the MC. H did most of the talking. We were able to hit the major high/low points of our relationship.

The three of us agreed for me to continue to see C as IC weekly. We all agreed it was a good fit. We also agreed there is no point in H coming back to MC until he is ready to make a commitment to want M to work.

There were no surprises. H was very affectionate with me the whole time. We even "debriefed" -- sat outside in the shade in a sort of courtyard on a bench and talked about the session.

I had forgotten that H had told me recently that like a year ago he practically hated and resented me. Felt no love. He said he didn't know why he didn't leave then except he wanted me to agree with his decision.

He now feels much compassion for me, although no romantic feelings. H sees this as a good thing, although is still not ready to come back now or in the future as he sees it.

He did say he has changed so much to come to feel the way that he currently does, he doesn't see why he couldn't change again.

So there is a lot if open-ended-ness to his feelings.

Those with more experience than me can see much more here than I can.

Would it be wrong to say I love driving H's convertible partly because it so reminds me so much of him? It's cute, it's clean, it's an older model, it's in perfect condition, it's fun, and it pulses with testosterone!

He rode his motorcycle to meet at MC. We are so much alike. We both arrived 20 minutes early, both arrived in the wrong place looking for the office. It was comical.

When we left and I rolled the car top down, he looked over at me appreciatively. He had just told the C he wants people to look at his wife and think she's attractive. He gave me the you are looking that way signal. Good note to end on!
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2253257 - 06/12/12 12:59 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Labug, Vera, NG, and RR, Thanks so much for your posts.

I'm not on the high I was this morning. It was an emotional MC this afternoon.

But it's been replaced with a solid, I have a plan feeling.

I had to interrupt this post to go with S12 to the chicken coop. There was a snake in one of the nesting boxes. S12 brought his tomahawk. Times you want H around. But if I DB I don't call H. So I didn't. And the snake got away.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2253366 - 06/12/12 01:48 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
When we were at MC yesterday, H mentioned to C that I had already told him I don't want a divorce. That really wasn't mentioned at all other than that.

Then, at the end C said we would talk (she and I in IC) and we would work everything out whether it comes to reconciliation or D. It pained me so much. Why do I feel that is such a death sentence?

I picked her because she said she was solution-oriented. I figured it meant like DB methods. Wouldn't that mean she was on my side? Like if I change, he changes?

Separately, For this weekend, I saw a large outdoor live music event in the city that had a meetup group available. I thought I might like to go to that rather than just attend alone.

It would be a HUGE 180 for me. It would be condemned by the church we had attended (music, alcohol, etc.). But it's something I would enjoy.

My question is: what do I do about H? I don't ask what events he attends. Sometimes he tells me. But I don't want to ask if he is going to that nor tell him I am going. What if I see him there? Surely other people here have run into that problem. Advice?
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2253369 - 06/12/12 01:55 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Smile and say, "Isn't this fun? Hope you're enjoying it as much as I am" and go back to the group.

Divorce isn't the real death of the R, it's usually just the symbolic throwing of the handful of dirt. But it is a death and it needs to be grieved.

Ask your T if she's read the DB books. SBT does not mean she's on board with DB.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2253382 - 06/12/12 02:13 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Labug, it's the kind of place where most likely I would see him walking around, don't know. You're saying walk up to him and greet him and then return to my group? Or just nod and smile from a distance-type thing? That is soooooo far out of my comfort zone it's scary. But I'm willing to try. It's a 180.

About the T. I'll see her next week and we will talk about DB.

She did ask some good questions. Like asking us what a typical day looked like for us.

H did say something I kind of knew but hadn't considered. He said he is tired all the time and he agreed with T that he is way out of balance. He had to cut back his going out schedule due to exhaustion,

Also, she asked him what his "ideal" life would look like. He said that he would live somewhere in the city and come and go as he pleased (like now) and the three of us would be taken care of (by him) without me having to work and none of us being affected emotionally by his decisions or actions. La la land, if you ask me! But at least he was honest. That's what he wants. And that's how he acts.

Is this MLC? Do I just wait it out doing GAL, the MLC recipe, 180's and tons of patience?
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2253388 - 06/12/12 02:23 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
New convertible, motorcycle, suddenly needing to change his life, partying, drinking, wanting to "feel unfettered and alive" (Joni Mitchell-Free Man in Paris)-sounds like MLC to me.

H told me at one point after he left that he liked not having to ask to do things. He NEVER asked me for permission to do things and that wasn't an expectation I had. I encouraged his hobbies and when he seemed to drop them, I pushed a little to get him back into them. They rewrite history to fit what they are feeling rather than looking deeper.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2253431 - 06/12/12 04:28 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Question: I looked at the meetup list to join for the event Sat. night and 37 people are going. I saw a pic and name on the list of one of the primary girls H parties with. I had forgotten H had said some of his new buddies met at meetup clubs because they are all single.

I saw she has her name (+ two guests). Do I go anyway?

I was starting to get excited about the thought of going. I thought maybe planning on staying two hours would be a good start. I don't want to get home too late because I like to have a long bike ride Sunday morning.

I was thinking what will I wear, etc. It's been sooooo long since I did anything of this nature.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2253434 - 06/12/12 04:31 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
vera be fierce Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 934
Not going would be letting your H/his friends control your emotions. Be excited to go, get out of your comfort zone, get a new outfit, look amazing. Can you bring anyone with you?

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#2253442 - 06/12/12 04:40 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: vera be fierce]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Hmm...that's a thought. I don't have many friends but I do have a treasured friend in the city, about age 33 or so, like a daughter to me, that might be able to go. She has spent a lot of time at our home and knows H & me really well. It could break the ice if we see H.

IF she is available. It's only Tuesday. If she would be willing even to commit for an hour it could get me started at the event.

And she knows H & I are separated. All four of us had lunch at Chilis last month with the boys. Let me work on that.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2253445 - 06/12/12 04:47 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
jks Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 623
Loc: USA
Do it! Do it! Doing something you don't normally do is empowering. You will feel so much better about yourself and it's a start to getting H off your mind. I'm rooting for you!
_________________________
Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.



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#2253460 - 06/12/12 05:35 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: jks]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Ok, I sent her a message. She has tons of friends in the city. Maybe she can set me up with one of her girlfriends if she can't make it. Or maybe she is already going! Lol!

I like the idea of a new outfit. If H does see me, it would make more impact with a cute new outfit! But...truthfully, it will give me more mojo! And my mojo right now needs some infusion!!!

(H just called me now to see how I'm doing. It's sweet. But I'm learning much better about NO expectations. I noticed if I don't ask him what he's doing, he usually tells me. I say things like he says to me. I say, "so...what else is going on?" or words similar)
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2253552 - 06/12/12 09:49 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
I've been thinking a lot today since we just had MC yesterday. After all I probably got to hear H talk to an unbiased party for probably 45 minutes explaining why he was unhappy with our M and what he wants now.

I figured while it was still fresh in my mind I should analyze it.

I saw 7 basic areas of unhappiness (of course he had some positive notes too -- maybe two, lol! )

Three of them I have resolved, but as he noted, it's only been in the last six months. Two of them were resolved just by the fact he moved out. And the other two I haven't changed.

Trying my best to look at it from his point of view, there's not a lot of "better than it was before" to come back to. I found it very enlightening. If I want to save this marriage, I've got a lot of work to do and NO MORE MOPING!!!

I think I could get a honorary degree in moping. I'm so good at it sometimes!!!
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2253776 - 06/13/12 06:43 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
I'm so discouraged today. H called me to tell me he is going to a "real estate investors meeting" with one of his new friends tomorrow. That is an interest he and I have had for a long time although we don't have investment property.

He wants to buy a house for himself to live in when he's done with this apartment (soon) It will really complicate our finances.

He's not exactly cold to me, but certainly not warm. He's not a warm & fuzzy person but there's no spark there. Like soda without the fizz.

Somebody tell me DB really works! I feel like there is no hope for this marriage!
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2253778 - 06/13/12 06:52 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
MrBond Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/08
Posts: 11152
It does work but you have to detach yourself from what he's doing. That's his GAL and it's sucking you in. It should be the other way around.

Did he call to brag or just talk about what's going on with him? Either way, don't answer his calls as often. What have you been doing to show him that you've been GAL?
_________________________
M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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#2253785 - 06/13/12 06:59 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: MrBond]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Depends on what your definition of *works* is.

If you want a guarantee that your marriage will be saved, you won't get it. But your race is far from over.

I agree with Bond. H doesn't want to be married to you, the R is over, you don't have to answer every call.

Did you talk with a L about protecting you and the boys financially?
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2253795 - 06/13/12 07:13 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: MrBond]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
He called because the investors meeting is tomorrow and he had been planning on coming out to the house then so he had to coordinate another time. I had to tell him our truck won't start also, as of this morning, I have his car I can use. I told him the truck could wait till Sunday when he comes out for fathers day, but he wants to look at it now; he's just like that.

I didn't think he was trying to brag. It almost felt like he wanted my approval since that was an interest we had together (real estate investing). Three years ago we even paid the $5K to have a personal Robert Kyosocki (sp?) coach to learn real estate investing. We never went through with it. Too scared of losing too much. I signed the papers at H's request to get a loan on our house (we have no mortgage) even though I was uncomfortable with it. I figured he makes the money, let him make the decision. He got cold feet and didn't buy any property, but at least I felt like I supported him.

About GAl, he hasn't seen ANYTHING from me except I joined a photography meetup club and the first meeting is in a week and a half. H saw it on my FB page and said HE is interested in photography! I guess thats how you mean "the other way around". He really doesn't see any other changes in me, I'm sure! Time to make some. smile

thanks so much, MrBond! I really need that encouragement this afternoon!
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2253807 - 06/13/12 07:29 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
MrBond Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/08
Posts: 11152
"he's just like that."

But YOU don't have to. You have to show him at a certain point that he can't just come and go as he pleases. In the future, if there's something wrong with the car, try and find a way to get it fixed yourself. I know you're tight with funds, but if he's gone you're going to have to figure out how to do it on your own anyway. Might as well start now.

The support you gave him was fine, but you really have to start GALing. It's good that he sees your FB page because it means he's seeing what you're doing. It's a little sneaky, but here's what I would suggest. Start posting about the places you've been or are going to without any specifics. Something like "Going to try out the new Mexican restaurant with a new friend. Can't wait! Yum!"

Then balance it out with posts about your photography and show your photography. Maybe take a photo of a dozen roses and put a smiley face in the comment section. Let him draw his own conclusions. If you're going out, show what a good time you're having and how killer you look. Let him see what he's missing. Let him read the positive posts that people leave for you.

That will show how YOU are GAL without him.
_________________________
M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

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#2253844 - 06/13/12 08:19 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: MrBond]
scaredsilly Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 1219
My first thought was financial, too. You have a hard time paying for things and he's talking about "investing" in real estate? With whose money? Are you protected?
_________________________
M:63
H:53
S:41, SS:28, SS:25, SD:23
M:15
T:16

Bomb:12/17/11, "I think we should go our separate ways."
H moves to his mother's house, 4/1/12
12/21/12: H moves back home, piecing


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#2254239 - 06/14/12 07:05 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: scaredsilly]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
It's such a roller coaster! But I'm trying to get off and just watch H on the ride!

Labug & SS, I havent seen a L yet, just got busy this week but plan on next week (truthfully my mind rebels against it, but I know I need to know the facts).

Money actually isn't a problem at all. We have no bills, no mortgage, no car payments, nothing. Lots of expendable income. I have just been trying not to spend extra in case we need it in the future.

I love MrBond's suggestions. Plus, H & I share two credit cards. We put certain types of expenses on each one. Since our separation, I'm constantly seeing entertainment charges that make me wonder. So....if I start going out, he'll see the same from me and wonder.... He always asks me about expenses I incur. Good opportunity to be vague.

Our visit last night was the FIRST time I didn't try to touch him physically at all (hold hands, stand too close to him, seduce him, etc.). I can see so clearly how I've been pursuing him physically if not by words.

When he first arrived he gave me a perfunctory hug. I thought to myself, this is how he hugs other people.

But then mid-visit he came up and really, really held me. Then later I asked him if he wanted to walk with me around our property. He hesitated and asked if I had an issue I needed to discuss. I said no, I just thought he might like to see the wildflowers that were blooming now,

So he said, okay, just a short one. But it was so low-key, so no pressure for him. We delighted together in our back acreage. The occasional bunny rabbit. The willow tree sweeping over the edge of the glassy pond. The prairie flowers.

At one point, I was talking about something I have a real passion for --growing flowers (I also love photographing them). He put his hand affectionately on the back of my neck and held it there for a while as we were walking. I mention this because it's the first time in many months I haven't been chasing him, and I exulted in the free expression he had.

That was it, I actually really did DB!
And when he left, I felt really, really good about myself.

Regarding day-to-day activities, next time I'm going to handle little emergencies without him. This morning he kind of p!$$ed me off the business way he handled getting our truck towed. And when I examined my feeling--I am going to embrace it! I need a little more anger to him and less pity. It will help my new attitude.

So...as I was going to type this post, he called just now to coordinate buying tickets for the family to go to a large water park in the city and later an amusement theme park. Within the next 2-3 weeks. I'm acting as a friend. We can all go. But I'm staying OFF the rollercoaster!
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2254270 - 06/14/12 08:02 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
unbidden Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/12
Posts: 647
Great news. Sounded so positive and genuine.

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#2254662 - 06/16/12 02:44 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: unbidden]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
I had some open flirting with H (both of us) on FaceBook this evening which was kinda fun.

Tonight, I'm going to read the section in "the Passion Trap" suggestions for what one-downs can do. Someone suggested it on this forum.

I found an interesting set of papers as I was cleaning today. Last fall H & I did some marriage surveys I printed off the Internet. I forget from where. One survey was to identify the "love busting" behaviors your spouse has.

The love busters that he had that annoy me are "independent behaviors", "dishonesty" and "selfish demands". The ones that I bust his love with are "disrespectful judgments" and "childish behaviors such as sulking and pouting".

It was somewhat of an eyeopener for me in our current sitch. I can see any time we get together and I don't do DB (like I pry with questions about his behaviors or get upset and start to cry) -- it destroys any chance for regaining a spark of love between us.

It helped me to see why/how DB'ing would work wonders in our sitch. Just takes self-control for me.

I had a really good day. I got some cleaning in house and garden I had been meaning to get to for a while. My emotions were steady all day, which was great!
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2254799 - 06/16/12 06:47 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
This afternoon, I'm going to meet H for a late lunch and beer and shooting some pool. We had arranged this yesterday.

I spoke on the phone with him just now. He asked what I wanted to do. We explored several options verbally. He asked if I wanted to go to a certain festival in the city, which I do. But he doesn't want to go there with me.

He's got Mr. Nice Guy syndrome. People, including me, can talk him into a lot of things he doesn't want to do.

For the first time, I really explored what he really wanted to do. I didn't want him to go at all if he didn't want to. It ends up he wants to do the pool and beer.

Its a relief for me to know he's not only okay with it, he wants to do this.

So now....to want him but NOT to need him.

I have enjoyed the feral cat analogy of the WAS (TSquared2 in MLC forum).

So...this afternoon I'll practice being cheerful (a quality H has always liked in me), not asking anything personal, and just enjoy the time together. That would be a great success.

And, after, I may go shopping by myself, and meet my girlfriend for a drink. All a 180 for me. But now...S12 just injured his foot jumping off the furniture (yes, true) so I'll have to make sure he doesn't need me to come back early. I think he'll be alright.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2255114 - 06/18/12 01:36 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
I had a basically good weekend. H & I connected yesterday really well when meeting to shoot pool and drink beer. There was a lot of spark between us. He wanted to sit and talk in the car for a while afterwards.

I did GAL activities Sat. night, and that went great.

Today he came for several hours for Father's Day. It was good, but it reminds me of the feral cat syndrome that Tsquared2 talks about on his thread. H wasn't exactly withdrawn today, but not looking for connection. I worked on doing my own activities in the house, not following him around.

Tomorrow I have an appointment for IC with the C that we used for MC a week ago.

How do I approach this therapy? Do I let her tell me what she thinks I should do? Or do I go in and tell her I'm using DB techniques and want support for that? Or do we talk about whatever comes up? Ideas? Suggestions?
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2255117 - 06/18/12 01:43 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
jks Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 623
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: reachingHigher

How do I approach this therapy? Do I let her tell me what she thinks I should do? Or do I go in and tell her I'm using DB techniques and want support for that? Or do we talk about whatever comes up? Ideas? Suggestions?


I'm curious to know this as well.

Who's idea was it to go out together? Just curious... smile
_________________________
Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.



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#2255130 - 06/18/12 02:18 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: jks]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Ok, so the truth comes out. I know I wasn't supposed to do it, but it was me that suggested it!

I told him if we were not going to be "dating" I think it would be great to meet just as friends sometimes and hang out and catch up on what's going on in our lives. I asked him what he thought about that idea. He liked it.

So that's why it was critical we go somewhere HE felt totally comfortable.

I didn't act in a pursuing way AT ALL while there.

After we were there eating for a while, he says something like, "this is as good a time to tell you as any, so...."

My little brain started up in high gear. Whatever he says, don't judge him. Just validate. Don't react. Etc. Etc.

He said in October he is going on a two week vacation with two of his new guy friends I haven't met. They look like decent enough professionals from their FaceBook profiles and what H has told me about them.

I was quite shocked but acted supportive for this is giving him space!

So after that, and me not doing ANY pursuing behavior but being cheerful and happy, H seemed quite, quite interested in me. Also he knew I was going to do GAL activities after I left him and it was interesting to see his face.

We have such a long road to go. I get discouraged often, but my lows aren't as low, and I feel I have a lot of tools,

Today went great, but he might've felt some pressure being it was Fathers Day and all. Our boys made beautiful handmade cards, one with a poem, one with a letter.

When H said he was leaving, a little earlier than usual for a Sunday, I was about to go wash my bike and then the car. He said "are you sad? You are acting like you do when you are sad."

How well they know us. I didn't cry or say anything, but he just knew. Hmmm....
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2255137 - 06/18/12 02:37 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
jks Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 623
Loc: USA
I'm glad that your activity together went well. However, it may be in your best interest to back down even more. To ask him out even as friends is still pursuing. Ultimately, you want him to be the one to ask you out. You're in a state right now where everything he does affects your mood/outlook on life.

I know this, because I get in these phases too. I've found that acceptance is key. The more I accept that I may be without H in my life, the more I'm able to look forward and do things TRULY for myself. Not just to get H's attention or make him think differently about me.

Just some things to think about. And don't expect it all to come at once. It definitely does take time to get there.

You're doing great, though.
_________________________
Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.



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#2255153 - 06/18/12 03:16 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: jks]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US


I appreciate your caution, advice and encouragement.

I really wanted to have a good time with him (not at home) without me physically pursuing him. It's like it kind of told me he can still have romantic feelings for me, even though I didn't know it would go that way.

When we left, I followed him on the highway for a while till we went our different ways. Before we split, he had already texted me saying he was confusing things but he really enjoyed the time with me. Trying my hardest not to mind read!!

So...in light of that, I will do my best to not suggest other activities with him.

Next Sunday we will take S12 to a large waterpark. That sort of evolved too.

I told him a few days ago I was planning on taking both sons to this waterpark. (tell him plans but stop short of an invitation). H says, that sounds really fun. (we agreed before the separation, that he wanted to be asked to do family activities together but not expected to do them. Leave it up to him to decide. Giving him space.)

He said he had discount tickets available from his workplace. So I said, did you want to join us? He said yes, he'll buy the tickets. He also said he had discounts for a large amusement park. He s going to buy those too, for July.

I don't remember who said what. It's like when you've been together a longtime, you do the steps to the dance and don't really notice.

So, I'm not sure if I did the right thing there or not. We've been spending family times together twice a week during this whole thing, so it doesn't seem the same to me as H & me together alone somewhere.

I almost feel like I have enough confidence to start living the way I should.

Maybe I've been waiting for the "breakthrough" but it's more of a process, like you said, and a quiet acceptance.......of what is.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2255157 - 06/18/12 03:36 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
jks Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 623
Loc: USA
Last year around the holidays, H and I were spending a lot more time together as a family. It confused me more than anything. Looking back I realize at that time that I thought we were going to be totally fine. He's still hanging around and our interaction with each other is "good" so I got my hopes up.

I think the fact that I've held on to every little bit of something that he throws out to me, it has made it that much harder to detach. And that's why my process seems so much longer. And when I say process, I mean feeling like I'm ok without H and my life is my own now. Acceptance... like I said before. Sometimes continuing on like "normal" with H only prolongs the time it will take you to really get to that point.

Am I even making sense? I think the continued activities together is just making it harder for you.
_________________________
Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.



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#2255792 - 06/19/12 10:10 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: jks]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
What's up?
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2255988 - 06/20/12 02:10 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
I went to see the C Monday, first time seeing her alone. It was really good. We identified a lot of controlling behaviors from myself and other people in H's life.

Her advice was to continue a date night every week but alternating who plans it. I talked to H about it and he's not willing to do that right now. It reeks of being willing to "work on the marriage" and he's not willing to do that right now. He said to me "this is just where I'm at right now."

She also tried to get me to identify small ways in which I might still be controlling to H or taking care of him like a mother. Her advice, "back off!"

She also recommended a chapter in a book, "the dance of anger" which described the pursuer/distancer relationship. It described our sitch very closely.

H will be visiting this afternoon.

H is obviously very attracted to me. Its a battle for him because he told me he doesn't feel it's right to have a physical relationship with me if he's not willing to work on the marriage.

Here's a quote from the book that meant the most to me:

" When a pursuer learns to back off and put her energies into her own life -- especially if she can do this with dignity and without hostility -- the distancer is more likely to recognize his own needs for contact and closeness ... And begin to pursue. "
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

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#2255992 - 06/20/12 02:20 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
It's a great book, I have it in the pile at the side of my bed. smile

Sounds like you found a good IC.

Quote:
H is obviously very attracted to me. Its a battle for him because he told me he doesn't feel it's right to have a physical relationship with me if he's not willing to work on the marriage.


Believe him. It seems he's saying "Hey, this is just sex" but he knows it's more than "just sex" for you. The more he has to battle that in his head, the more validates to himself that he's doing the right thing.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2256081 - 06/20/12 07:46 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
I went back and read that section of the book-had to laugh, it is so like my M was.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2256256 - 06/21/12 01:33 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Labug, did you get the "I'm never coming back" speech?
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
#2256262 - 06/21/12 01:54 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Yes! A couple of times.

Because in the beginning I did all the begging, pleading, guilting, shaming I could fit into a conversation. crazy

He was like a drug to me, I'd go a couple of days and need a hit so I'd drum up an excuse to contact him. Nothing about the R, house stuff, kid stuff, money stuff.

I didn't find this site until a few months later. And even then I couldn't see that everything I was doing was just reinforcing his reasons for leaving. I went down fighting.

But some wise posters pointed out the error of my ways, the underlying messages in my seemingly innocent contacts.

If I had it to do over again...

The minute he said "I'm done, I'm not coming back" I would have said "OK, I wish you well" and would have only contacted him for emergencies. I realize that's a pretty evolved stance and it's taken me a lot of time and growth to get there but that's what I wish I had done.

Fear held me back.

My fear was, if I drop the rope, what will keep us connected, what will bring him back, how will I control this.

Then I finally realized that I can't control it, never could. If he doesn't come back, he was never going to come back.

If he does come back it has to be under his own steam.

Letting go of our perceived control is scary but it's very freeing.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2256284 - 06/21/12 02:57 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
scaredsilly Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 1219
^^^^^^love this. Took ms awhile to figure this out, too. I still fight the allure of the "connection" drug! But, I try to remember that he once told me (in a moment of weakness, I'm sure) that he thinks about our sitch "about 28 times a day! So, I really don't need to remind him I'm still around.

Quite the contrary. I need to let him see I'm venturing further and further out...
_________________________
M:63
H:53
S:41, SS:28, SS:25, SD:23
M:15
T:16

Bomb:12/17/11, "I think we should go our separate ways."
H moves to his mother's house, 4/1/12
12/21/12: H moves back home, piecing


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#2256290 - 06/21/12 03:16 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
bustingout Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 2572
Not to hijack, but labug does that mean now you don't contact at all? I ask just to further understand about dropping the rope, etc.
_________________________
TPS
Me: 43 H: 41
M13 T16
S10 D7
10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month
21/04/12 H is 'DONE' (email)
04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors began in 2010)
July '14 H says he ended his affair

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#2256299 - 06/21/12 03:31 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: bustingout]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
I sent him my work schedule in early May per an agreement we made about S19 (long story). Haven't contacted him since. It had probably been a month before that that I contacted him about an appt we had for S19.

I have seen him, as he's been here to pick up S19 for a few outings. We talk like you would with a neighbor.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

Top
#2256351 - 06/21/12 06:06 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
bustingout Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 2572
Thanks labug. I get it.

Sorry rh for the brief hijack.
_________________________
TPS
Me: 43 H: 41
M13 T16
S10 D7
10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month
21/04/12 H is 'DONE' (email)
04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors began in 2010)
July '14 H says he ended his affair

Top
#2256576 - 06/22/12 03:57 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: bustingout]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
I tried a meetup group last night. It was a flop, for me. But that doesn't mean I won't try other activities. Even 20 years ago, I wouldn't have been comfortable going somewhere like that totally alone. I'm not discouraged about it. I find it refreshing that at least I know that activity doesn't interest me. I very much enjoyed touring one of the galleries where the event was held.

I'm starting, very slowly, to understand some things. I was reviewing a post I had copied (don't know author) that said about MLC:

"In his eyes, you are an authority figure, i.e., mom. He is acting out and rebelling against the mom figure."

This describes H and me exactly. It explains why any reasoning with H regarding our sitch doesn't work.

I noticed that H has also been distancing himself from his very controlling mom.

It looks like H is looking for an apartment or house to rent starting the end of next month. He'll probably move out of his corporate, fully-furnished apartment. That'll give us some expenses regarding furnishing the new place. He said he thinks it would be a poor idea to buy a place right now. I'm relieved about that. I'll know more next week.

We had a R talk a couple of days ago. He says in his mind most of the time he thinks it's "over" with me. But then sometimes he thinks it isn't over. He reiterated that he is NOT asking for a divorce. He said, in a very choked-up emotional way, he still cares very much about me.

I reflected on how he treats me emotionally. Within the last year he rarely showed emotion for me even though we ML regularly. Now, with the separation, when he holds me it is deep, fervent and heart-felt. Full of emotion. It's interesting.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
#2256695 - 06/22/12 11:28 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
I'm crying this afternoon. I just miss H so much.

This is the worst year of my life, but I keep trying to tell myself it's the best year because I'm learning so much. If I could only believe it!

Everything is going fine, as expected. Just the feelings are sad. frown

I'd like to live somewhere other than limbo land. But seems I'm doomed to live here for X amount of time.

Maybe I have to pay for living in fantasy land too many years. Lol.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
#2256748 - 06/23/12 03:09 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
I'm better now. No tears. No sadness.

Just enjoying a summer evening watching S12 catch fireflies. We brought our cameras outside to take pics of bunny rabbits in the grass & spiders spinning webs.

I have been reading resources over in the MLC forum. I copied and pasted a lot. There's a lot of great help there! It helps me to be much calmer and more understanding of H instead of frustrated with his baffling behavior.

I paste most of the advice in my electronic files in blue. Blue to remind me to be loyal and faithful.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
#2256754 - 06/23/12 04:03 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Try not to label it limboland, it's just where you are right now. You know where you are, right?

If you didn't want to be there you could change it, right?

Don't try to tell yourself something that's not true. If you are sad, you are sad. Accept where and who you are right now.

In 6 months you might truly believe this has been a great experience although very painful. I feel that way about my experience but I have tried not to deny my feelings.

They are mine, they are authentic.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

Top
#2256757 - 06/23/12 04:14 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Thanks, labug.

The truth is my emotions are on a roller coaster too. I'm rarely sad a whole day any more.

I'll cry for a while, very intensely. Then try to refocus and read something to see the big pic once again.

By nature, I'm generally a happy, sanguine person.

So....when I'm sad it destroys me and I hate it, I guess.

Limbo land must've been a bad choice. It just seems like "how long is this going to go on land?" Patience isn't one of my natural qualities. And, truthfully, I would like to be more of a patient, calm person. This experience will teach me that.....I just want to hurry up and get there!!!!
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
#2256802 - 06/23/12 02:06 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
jks Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 623
Loc: USA
Seeing the big picture is key. We must remember this... smile
_________________________
Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.



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#2256810 - 06/23/12 02:37 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: jks]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
I haven't been known as a patient person but my H has said to me a few times post BD "You have a lot more patience than I do."

What has helped me when I get that, I-want-this-to-be-over feeling is thinking about what I would be doing differently if it was over. I'm in no way ready for another R right now so I wouldn't be dating, I would still be working on myself, I would still be doing things I enjoy with friends, I would still be spending time with my kids, I would still be going to work.

So really, nothing within my control would be different.

So I change my attitude and keep working on myself.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

Top
#2256839 - 06/23/12 04:09 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
That's super helpful, labug.

Definitely a good solid place to put your mind. Thanks. smile

And (jks) that helps me get the big picture too!
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
#2256859 - 06/23/12 06:25 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
sweetbabyred Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/12
Posts: 513
Loc: Texas
Labug,

That's really good to keep in mind. Sometimes I think it might be easier to go ahead and get divorced because then I might qualify for fin aid for grad school, but that's really the only thing that would change. I'm nowhere near being ready to date and I've got a lot of personal projects I'm working on.

So as hard as it is to be in limbo for so long, nothing would really change, so I'll just let H take his time so he can decide if/when we need to D.
_________________________
M36 XH34
M-5 T7
4/11 H confused
5/11 ILYB
6/11 OW discovered
7/11 I move out, OW over
5/12-OW2,done->new EA, but H wont file
9/12 H "best bf ever" to EA/OW3
3/13 H/OW break up
H files 4/13
D 6/18/13

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#2256879 - 06/23/12 08:43 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: sweetbabyred]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9091
Loc: Sonoran Desert
It's only limbo if that's what you decide it is, otherwise, it's just life.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

Top
#2256880 - 06/23/12 08:45 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: labug]
bustingout Offline
Member

Registered: 05/15/12
Posts: 2572
Labug that's a great way to look at it!
_________________________
TPS
Me: 43 H: 41
M13 T16
S10 D7
10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month
21/04/12 H is 'DONE' (email)
04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors began in 2010)
July '14 H says he ended his affair

Top
#2257073 - 06/24/12 10:07 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: bustingout]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
I think I need to read the MLC recipe every day.

We took S12 to a waterpark for the first time. it was really fun.

But there were points during the visit I really struggled with my emotions. S12 didn't notice but H did. He kept asking me if I was upset, or what's wrong.

I did all the big slides with them. In the past I would've ben too afraid so that was a 180.

So kind of a mixed up day.

I want to detach "with dignity and without anger" and that seems such a tall order. I go to see the IC tomorrow so maybe we can work on that.

I want to have more sympathy for the struggles that H is having. Not just feeling the victim all the time. That's how I always feel. "he did this to me".

I think there's love buried deep in his heart for me and I don't stand a chance with him if I don't detach.

I really, really didn't believe Cadet's beginning advice about it being a long road. I still don't want to believe it. But I'm starting to think it's true.

Part of me just wants to give up sometimes. That's scary. But I want to be a stronger, better person. I did make vows to him, too. So I'll keep holding on. Holding on to heart and home.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
#2257075 - 06/24/12 10:17 PM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
I took a really good pic of him and S12 and he asked if he could post it on FB. I said "of course" and he tagged me that we were all at the waterpark together.

He wanted a pic of the three of us but when we were ready to take it we couldn't find someone (who wasn't wet!) to take it.

He initiated taking us to lunch too. That was really nice.
But I was struggling so much.

I hard a hard time finding my PMA this morning. I decided, since I couldn't find it, to pretend. But I need a little more practice, I guess!
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
#2257700 - 06/27/12 01:16 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
H came by for a visit. He took S18 with him to HP to stay overnight so H could take him to the airport in the morning.

While H was here, we talked about our lives, NOT R. I remembered to let him have a "safe" place with me. He told me a lot of details. Things, which if I had heard in the past, I would have been critical. And he would have withdrawn. It's the dance we used to engage in.

Today I actively listened. No judgment. H seemed safe with me.

I experienced the "feeling of detachment". You can observe the other person better when your feelings aren't engaged.

Separately, I saw my IC yesterday. I made a series of goals for myself (not involving H, R, or kids) for the next six months, and for the next six months after that.

I'm figuring I'm going to be in this for a while.

IC is encouraging me to make sure and not control H in any way.

It's really been helpful to see someone face-to-face. Thank you, labug, for encouraging me to do that!

My parents (who live far away) have decided to exclude H from the family. I felt annoyed/angry about that. IC said it's difficult for the inlaws in these situations. She suggested instead of reacting in anger, ask for their support. I did just that. My parents have decided not to support him/us, but I feel really pleased I did the right thing. Another example of -- I can only control me --not them!
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
#2258468 - 06/29/12 03:32 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
After the great time we had a couple days ago, H feeling safe with me, I didn't hear from H for a day and a half which is quite unusual.

I thought of the analogies here on the forum: the feral cat, the picnic outside the castle, etc. I kept myself busy, too, so as not to think about it too much.

At one point yesterday evening, I felt like I HAD to contact him. Then I remembered one poster here saying it took every ounce of strength she had not to contact her H. And I thought, if she could do that, so could I! The community here is great!

So then today, we had lots of texting and some funny issues came up and we sent pics back and forth with S12 and it was all lighthearted and enjoyable.

I'm being VERY careful with H. I don't exactly act like a co-worker because I flirt with him when I can, but I've definitely changed my stance with him. No wondering where he is or what he's doing (out loud anyway), no suggestions of "us" or anything. No sadness.

And now I have goals for myself that don't include him or kids, so when he asks me about what is going on I can be exuberant about my life. Because I am! My life is something that can move forward during this time of standstill. Strange, huh?

When I start to slip during the day, I take out the DB quotes, advice and wisdom I've copied into my notes and read them. And review my goals. Sometimes I have to do this several times a day and it seems to be working for me to stay on track.

AND, I'm not expecting a quick turnaround. I'm in it for the long haul and I think I'll call my next thread that.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
#2258480 - 06/29/12 04:48 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: reachingHigher]
jks Offline
Member

Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 623
Loc: USA
You are doing great! I was actually really wondering about you tonight because I hadn't seen you post in a while. So I'm glad you did.

I love all of your goals that you're setting for yourself. The smallest little things can make the biggest difference. And good for you for not contacting H. Keep that up. No more pursuing. It helps you just as much as it helps him. Believe me.
_________________________
Me: 32 H: 32
M 9 yrs
#1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2
Bomb 8/12/11
H moved out 8/14/11
PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12
Got my own place 8/25/12
H & OW move in together 9/15/12
Still married.



Top
#2258898 - 07/01/12 02:57 AM Re: Just spinning my wheels [Re: jks]
reachingHigher Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/12
Posts: 1680
Loc: Southwest US
Please lock this thread. I'll start a new one.
_________________________
Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway

Top
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