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Well I looked at the building permit inspection record today.....for OWs house. Guess what? there was an inspection today. Guess whose name was listed as the contact? H's. Guess who denied it when I asked? He did. so I went back to work. Pretty upset. He said his name gets on all kinds of lists. Do you agree that he wouldn't lie unless he had something to hide?


Me - 49
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D - 20
Married 25 years
H moved out 10/11/13
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So - let's imagine for a minute that you gave me his photo and I went and staked out her building site and got you proof that he is building her house.

What would you do with that information?

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Originally Posted By: kml
So - let's imagine for a minute that you gave me his photo and I went and staked out her building site and got you proof that he is building her house.

What would you do with that information?



My guess is nothing.


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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How do I even attempt to get at the truth, have an honest conversation when all he does is lie and deny involvement with OW? All of my attempts to discuss this have been met with deny deny deny. I am at a loss. how can we discuss what he refuses to admit to?


Me - 49
H - 56
S - 23
D - 20
Married 25 years
H moved out 10/11/13
H moved back in 10/13/13
H moved out again 8/1/14
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Abbey,

There is an old Polish proverb which says, "A truly wise man, never warms himself, in front of a PAINTING of a fire."

The rabbit doesn't need to admit to being a rabbit, for the fox to be ready to eat him. A fox is always a fox, regardless of the disposition of the rabbit. cool


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Does it matter if he admits the truth when you know the truth?

He may be lying to you but are you not also lying to yourself?


If you need concrete "can't deny it" proof, then hire a PI. But would that change how you react to him or change your path? If not, then it won't matter anyway.

What do you want, Abbey? I think that is the question that really needs to be answered.

((()))

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Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Abbey

I don't know his or your financial situation, other possible reasons for carrying on like this, kids, a home, etc

or if he's simply

a serial cheater, who likes to cake eat a LOT, and also feel good about himself.

My question is whether you really read and PROCESSED what we wrote to you?

I didn't feel that way. I didn't feel "heard".

Are you still mulling it over or what?

As far as confronting him, What is there to "prove"? Why bother?

He'll deny/deny/deny. OJ did that with his wife (before he killed her) and with the women he was seeing later. It is a philosophy many adulterers live by.

They will deny a photograph of them in bed w/OW, and say it was photoshopped.

You will not get them to admit what they've done. They will deny it, always.

So please do NOT expect him to own ANY of this.

IF you caught him in bed he'd say it was the first time, "a one time mistake" AND that you were neglecting him so in a way, it's not his fault...it's yours.

Your decision is whether a slice of attention now and then, like a sandwich when you're sick---and all the mind games you two seem to play,

is a marriage.


Do you feel his guilt is somehow empowering to you? Like it's leverage?

See, I don't get that at all.

But I do Hope you feel better.

(( ))


^^^^^ This.

Cheaters lie, otherwise they wouldn't be cheating. They would be in an open M.

Are you going to leave the M if he admits to the A?

Or are you going to continue to ignore the A and go on with life?

See, I think the only reason to get proof is if you're going to do something about it. Let set a boundary for yourself. If you are going to maintain the status quo, then what is the point?

In my opinion, he's not going to admit to the A. Why would he? It has gone on this long and besides, the proof you have already is pretty good.

This is a long-term A. It's a habit at this point. And so is the lying and the deceit.

And even if he does admit it....

You can't control him or his choices but you can control you which is why I ask again, what is it that you want? And are you willing to live like this for 3 more years?

If not, you have to make decisions based on your values and boundaries. If what you're doing right now is not working for you, change what you're doing.

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I think that what she wants is for him to admit the truth and then, as a result, to stop seeing OW. he feels that with the lying and denying he can pull the wool over her eyes and continue to be a "cake eater" with the social advantages of a "stable marriage" and the fun of a fantasy affair on the side. (and I realize that for the cheating spouse, the attraction of the affair is not so much any specific quality of the OP, often the LBS is a lot better person in many ways; but the affair is all fantasy and fun with no responsibilities and that is the attraction.)

and therefore, since the lying and denying are in effect enabling the affair, I think that what Abbey wants is for him to admit the truth and then stop the affair. the question is - if they do admit the past and if they do stop seeing the OW, how do we know going forward that they are now telling the truth, i.e. that they aren't continuing secretly with OW in some way and/or haven't started a new affair with some other OW?

I am throwing this out for all those who have been there & done that. I know there are some who are already divorced and who are saying that this is the only solution - but isn't that like cutting off your nose to spite your face? some participants in this forum have rehabilitated their marriages, and the question is how you can be able to confidently trust the cheating spouse again after what he has done in the past.


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I too find myself in a similar situation. But my W would rather divorce me than tell me the truth. Why do I want a M with a woman like that. Even my own son asks me that. I wanted to make M work. I almost hired a PI, but then thought "you dont do that to someone you love". I know its going to be tough for a while but I guess I just need to let her go. Abbey, dont become a doormat like I did. There must be something better out there for us. After 29 years I dont relish the thought of starting over or losing all my dreams. Unfortunately not all situations on this blog have happy endings.

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Originally Posted By: too trusting
the question is - if they do admit the past and if they do stop seeing the OW, how do we know going forward that they are now telling the truth, i.e. that they aren't continuing secretly with OW in some way and/or haven't started a new affair with some other OW?

I am throwing this out for all those who have been there & done that. I know there are some who are already divorced and who are saying that this is the only solution - but isn't that like cutting off your nose to spite your face? some participants in this forum have rehabilitated their marriages, and the question is how you can be able to confidently trust the cheating spouse again after what he has done in the past.


It's a fair question, and I can only tell you what I did. I continued to monitor intel ("snooping") and we had a mutual transparency period for an indefinite period of time after she returned to the marriage from her affair. It ended up being about a year, with me checking her e-mail and text messaging less and less over time.

Trust has to be re-earned, and the betrayed spouse needs to be able to feel safe. My wife understood this. About a year in, I gave her a shiny new pink laptop for Valentine's Day, and in my attached card I let her know that it was FREE of keylogging software, and forever always would be, and I thanked her for being open and transparent with me for the past year or so.

I'm from the Ronald Reagan school: "Trust, but verify." cool


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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