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#2250386 - 06/01/12 01:14 PM Re: Turn another page.... [Re: labug]
ces67 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 1024
True Bug, it didn't make sense to start now knowing she is going to be gone. However, it would be a good time to get some appointments on the calendar ready for when she comes back.

I will bring it up. We had done counseling over a year ago. But W really didn't take part. She showed up but didn't really engage. Our MC told us that it was like taking piano lessons but not practicing between lessons. Basically W ended up saying she felt pressured to attend MC but didn't really want to so we cancelled all remaining sessions.

So my point now is, don't do it if you really don't want to because it will just repeat the history of what frustrated us both...Her going to MC she didn't want to and me attending and hoping for progress that wasn't going to happen. I want her to be sure she is ready for it and to know that I am supporting her decision.

But we are in a different place now than a year ago and since W is saying she is looking for a place to start, I feel more comfortable offering this as an option.
_________________________
Me:45, W:44
S:15, D:12
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
2 attempts at MC-stopped 09/13
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms

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#2250391 - 06/01/12 01:25 PM Re: Turn another page.... [Re: ces67]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 8880
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Quote:
So my point now is, don't do it if you really don't want to because it will just repeat the history of what frustrated us both...Her going to MC she didn't want to and me attending and hoping for progress that wasn't going to happen


I get this because that's often the sort of hard line I took but I try not to these days. Don't self-sabotage. No expectations.

If she goes to counseling-great! If she engages and does the work-great! If not, that's her stuff.

Interview the counselor before so you don't have a bad experience and turn her off the idea completely.

Good luck, you know I wish the best for you.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2250393 - 06/01/12 01:33 PM Re: Turn another page.... [Re: labug]
ces67 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 1024
Thanks Bug, I'm trying not to be hardline but rather sensative to what I've seen in the past. I'll bring it up again and see what I can get on the books for August after the kids are in school.

How do you go about interviewing a counselor?
_________________________
Me:45, W:44
S:15, D:12
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
2 attempts at MC-stopped 09/13
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms

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#2250396 - 06/01/12 01:39 PM Re: Turn another page.... [Re: ces67]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 8880
Loc: Sonoran Desert
I think a lot of it is how comfortable you feel with the T.

I read an article about this, I'll get you the link. Elsewhere.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2250397 - 06/01/12 01:50 PM Re: Turn another page.... [Re: labug]
sayitaintso Offline
Member

Registered: 11/04/11
Posts: 951
I think you are spot on CES that right now is a time that requires great patience. And it is very difficult to not get what you are seeking (reciprication, affection, remorse, positive intent, etc..)

As you said, things have moved in a much more positive direction just over the past month. Focus on those and keep at it one step at a time. Next month will be even better than this month and so on....
_________________________
Me- 34 W-33
S15 S10 S6
Married- 11 Together- 18
Bomb- 6-2011
WAW moves out- 8-2011

"Nothing in the Universe can stop you from letting go and starting over at anytime"- Guy Finley

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#2250408 - 06/01/12 02:45 PM Re: Turn another page.... [Re: sayitaintso]
zig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 1855
Loc: KS
hi ces - i see where you're at - teetering a bit - patience versus moving forward.


could you approach this with the understanding that the pace will be so slow as to not be noticeable almost at all? then you won't get impatient?

how much are you reading about in the piecing threads - maybe someone could suggest reading some of the threads that describe where you guys are at right now, and you could see that this beginning part is very slow and arduous?

i'm hearing you wanting to set boundaries, push C etc - basically things that would give YOU proof that she is serious about what she's saying.

in other words, you want actions from her instead of words. it's too much too soon. i would say, let her go on this trip, just back off and let the small little good things happen, let her gain more and more confidence in being with you - a month is no time at all, after all that's taken place.

she needs lots and lots of repeated reassurances that being with you is non-threatening, non-confrontational, before she can take these sorts of steps. so if you push things like counseling etc right now when it's so fragile, it may make her pull back hard even though she doesn't really want to.

25yrsmlc had written somewhere - about establishing non-threatening conversations, where there is no pressure at all - can't remember exactly how it was put.

my analogy of the week - fishing - if you fight the fish that just bit the line by tugging too hard or trying to yank it in.... as opposed to gently guiding it towards you, by just holding your ground until it exhausts itself out by struggling...

it's really hard - but you said you were up for it - now be up for it - this is what it is about

hope you have a sweet weekend

zig

ps. you're not the only one in this ces - we are all learning through you. stay strong!!
_________________________
me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"


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#2250413 - 06/01/12 03:03 PM Re: Turn another page.... [Re: zig]
RoRoinMD Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 871
This is very good advice.

Originally Posted By: sayitaintso

As you said, things have moved in a much more positive direction just over the past month. Focus on those and keep at it one step at a time. Next month will be even better than this month and so on....


As is this:

Originally Posted By: zig
in other words, you want actions from her instead of words. it's too much too soon. i would say, let her go on this trip, just back off and let the small little good things happen, let her gain more and more confidence in being with you - a month is no time at all, after all that's taken place.

she needs lots and lots of repeated reassurances that being with you is non-threatening, non-confrontational, before she can take these sorts of steps. so if you push things like counseling etc right now when it's so fragile, it may make her pull back hard even though she doesn't really want to.

it's really hard - but you said you were up for it - now be up for it - this is what it is about


ces, I think at this point you need to keep repeating in your head "slow and steady". You really are doing great. We think DBing is hard. I think piecing is really when the hard work starts.
_________________________
Me:34
H:38
SS:19 - lives in NC with his mom
M:3
Bomb #1: 1/3/12 - We're not compatible. I want out.
Bomb #2: 1/12/12 - Found out about EA/PA
H moves out 10/2/12

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#2251168 - 06/04/12 07:44 PM Re: Turn another page.... [Re: RoRoinMD]
ces67 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 1024
OK, so hopefully you all can get some good learning out of this post. I'm still trying to learn myself. smile

I sort of dropped off the DB plan yesterday. After going over the bills, I noticed that my W's statement about not sending a pix txt last Sunday morning was less than accurate. She did send & receive a txt to a number I didn't recognize. So since she confessed about some things lately I confessed about seeing her call activity and what appeared to be a contradiction of what she told me.

Long story, short, we got into a heated argument about my challenges in trusting her based upon all the deceit and secrecy she has shown. This included more conversation about her involvement with OM and our differing opinions on "flirting" vs. an EA. (at this point we agree to disagree).

I rarely get visibly angry but I did last night but was able to reign it in quickly. I even used a technique from the "Hold Me Tight" book of recognizing a bad communication cycle. I called it out and told her we were falling into bad communication practices again and I wasn't going to allow myself to do that. I actually walked away for a while.

I upset her because I questioned her integrity. But I stood my ground and explained why I felt challenged to trust her. She told me that being with me was draining and made her feel bad about herself. I listened and did not respond at that time.

We stopped & started a few times throughout the night. I never did get a full clarification of who she sent the pix txt to. But she knows that I'm aware of it and she'll have to decide if she's holding out on really working on our M for herself.

Today, W has been texting me and even called and talked to me. This is very surprising. Her demeanor towards me was the same as its been the past few weeks which is more positive. Trust me when I say it WAS NOT positive last night.

My approach was direct and I put on the table some issues she has created. That in no way was comfortable for either of us.

So far it appears that while this was a set back in the process, it may allow for additional forward movement based upon her actions towards me today. She also agreed to go back to our MC when she returns from her trip. Rather than question whether or not she really was willing to do it this time, I'm just going to set up the appointment and plan on going.

I think we're still piecing things. At one point last night I truly felt I was done and that I could never change the negative view of me that she'd adopted. However, she ended up not running away. She stayed and dealt with her own anger and then returned today to practices that promoted casual communication. I was pleasantly surprised by that.

3 days till they leave. W is suppose to close her own account this week and join our finances before she leaves. I think I need a name for my own roller coaster....
_________________________
Me:45, W:44
S:15, D:12
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
2 attempts at MC-stopped 09/13
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms

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#2251690 - 06/06/12 01:56 PM Re: Turn another page.... [Re: ces67]
ces67 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 1024
Journal stuff:

Last night W volunteered with me at a fund-raising concert. I had the opportunity to introduce her to a lot of people I work with. She seemed to enjoy herself and pitched in an helped.

A few introductions seemed awkward (at least to me). A few people were very complimentary of me and said things about W being fortunate to find a good catch or whatever. She was pleasant but I wondered (past tense) what she was thinking about during those interactions. Oh well, doesn't matter.

We worked late and didn't get home until after midnight. S13 at to be somewhere at 8:00 so I volunteered to take him so she could sleep in. This morning I noticed some note she had written on a post it note on the table where she does her work. They read as follows:

-Ask questions to make a connection
-Endear yourself with kind small gestures
-Respect each others house rules
-Handle your own family members
-See something, say something

Not sure what she may be reading or where she's getting it from but it at least appears she is trying.

W & kids leave tomorrow for there 6 weeks back at our previous home. I'm heading up for a long weekend for Father's day. Yesterday W txted me asking if I had enough points that we could get a hotel room to stay at while I'm there. My parents are watching the kids that Friday and W and I are going out for our 20th anniversary dinner. Then I'll get a room for us to stay at that evening. I bought her a dress she liked as an early anniversary gift. She asked if I wanted her to wear that when we go out. I agreed.

Its interesting how even in these positive steps I feel the need to stay somewhat detached. I think there is a balance though. I need to take a risk to allow myself to be open and attempt being close. I just have to realize and accept that at any time W can pull away and forward progress can be halted or reversed based upon anything that might trigger her. That's just the way it is and the more I accept it, the easier it seems for W to feel safe to come close again.
_________________________
Me:45, W:44
S:15, D:12
M:22, T:25
Bomb: July 2010
2 attempts at MC-stopped 09/13
Continue to live in same home-separate rooms

Top
#2251695 - 06/06/12 02:07 PM Re: Turn another page.... [Re: ces67]
zig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 1855
Loc: KS
"Its interesting how even in these positive steps I feel the need to stay somewhat detached. I think there is a balance though. I need to take a risk to allow myself to be open and attempt being close. I just have to realize and accept that at any time W can pull away and forward progress can be halted or reversed based upon anything that might trigger her. That's just the way it is and the more I accept it, the easier it seems for W to feel safe to come close again."

of course you do - you've been through a lot of hurt and anguish and you can't just jump in like a switch turned on, and neither can she.

to me it seems as if your description above is the right place to be.

just make sure you catch the very tiny moves she's making. that list you found - i think that's really positive - it was 'given to you' so you can see better where she's making the efforts and then you don't miss a chance to reinforce them - so it's easier for her to make a slightly bigger one next time.

she needs to feel success at this on every tiny step, as much as you do.

i imagine it's so overwhelming for both of you at this point , that you both need encouragement and at the same time the tiniest things could make either of you feel very discouraged and hopeless.

i look forward to reading your updates ces and hope things get better and better

zig
_________________________
me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"


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