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#2249427 - 05/29/12 03:30 PM Re: this rocky path WILL smooth out [Re: Brit45]
zig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 1855
Loc: KS
thanks brit - the thing that upset me is that i rarely ever remember my dreams and really am happy when i do remember one - and this was not one that i would have chosen to remember!!

i'm a bit reassured that others have had the same experiences - sometimes i feel that i am over the top i n my reactions and how i am emotionally dealing with my sitch - that i'm "abnormal", and then ir sad here, and realize that no - everyone goes through the same thing

hope you're well today.

zig
_________________________
me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"


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#2249430 - 05/29/12 03:39 PM Re: this rocky path WILL smooth out [Re: zig]
needgrace Offline
Member

Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 1345
Originally Posted By: zig


i don't know if i'm exactly "skipping along" - what i am trying to do very hard is stay in a good place as much as i can - by turning my focus to other things, even if it is just for a little while. i'm learning that when one does that it creates space, which allows for more insight and healing.

i guess when one turns the focus AWAY from what one is resisting (and we all know what THAT is) and instead towards something that one doesn't feel any resistance or angst about, it allows us to relax and then the real stuff can find it's way to the surface. then i deal with it and get back to a good place.

when that stuff rises though - i'm a sobbing mess, but it's less intense each time, and what's beautiful is that after i get through it, i feel a bit more space that is lighter. it's like you're allowing yourself to release the really deep stuff when you don't focus on the current cause of angst.



This is such a great description of how I feel too, Zig. Beautiful, both honest and hopeful. Thank you.
_________________________
Me(f): 51 W: 41
DP:8 M:3 T:10
"W not happy" 7/11
D final: 8/13

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#2249434 - 05/29/12 03:54 PM Re: this rocky path WILL smooth out [Re: needgrace]
zig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 1855
Loc: KS
thanks need grace -

i'm sorry for your sitch - this back and forth and final cutting off as described in your tag line , must be very painful for you.

i wish you great strength - and hope that you are in a good place and feeling strong .

have a peaceful day

zig
_________________________
me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"


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#2249436 - 05/29/12 03:56 PM Re: this rocky path WILL smooth out [Re: needgrace]
Brit45 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/03/12
Posts: 1108
yes I am having a good day thank you.

I am so grateful for this community. I felt really loss before and it's so comforting to know you're not the only one. In our society D is so common that I felt like I should be able to just get through this and pick myself up. And that just made me feel worse because I hated that I wasn't handling it better. anyway I'm so happy to be here get support and know that we're not going it alone.

Quote:
i'm a sobbing mess, but it's less intense each time,
My IC said this was grieving and needed and that I shouldn't suppress it.

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#2249736 - 05/30/12 01:58 PM Re: this rocky path WILL smooth out [Re: Brit45]
zig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 1855
Loc: KS
In our society D is so common that I felt like I should be able to just get through this and pick myself up. And that just made me feel worse because I hated that I wasn't handling it better.

I struggle with this terribly too. especially since my core values about marriage and children are strongly about making it work.

i didn't grow up knowing anyone who was divorced etc. in india it just wasn't common back then.

now as i talk to people, i am finding out how many and how common it is. and all these remarriages and stuff. and all i see is that people aren't happy and how children, who are now adults carry all this stuff about it

one of the books i read a while ago, talked about how the WAS or person in MLC should make their decisions based on their core values , not on their current feelings. I look forward to the day when h is able to do that - base his decision on his core values. he feels as strongly about families as i do, and i really wish that he will get to that in the future - that it is worth it to make another effort before giving it up altogether

zig
_________________________
me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"


Top
#2249937 - 05/30/12 09:49 PM Re: this rocky path WILL smooth out [Re: zig]
zig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 1855
Loc: KS
hi everyone

i'm finding in the last few days that i need to develop my listening skills better.

things have come up in conversations between me and h - in the past few days, where now that i have stepped back a bit, i see stuff i couldn't see so clearly before.

obviously i am not LISTENING to what he's saying. some small response of mine will set him off.

i see more and more clearly that certain conversations go well - these are the ones where we stick to talking about s, or his school etc., about how great s is and general stuff like that. also conversations where something happened at school, like someone messed up, and then he's like his old self really getting into the details of it, laughing together and criticizing what they did.

the conversations that do NOT go well are the ones where we are discussing co-parenting issues. like what we want to decide for him etc. (R talks have stopped completely, thank God)

i think the message that i am getting from him is - "don't go there (broach the subject) unless I do, unless I feel like it, unless I'm in the mood. If you bring it up, i'll be pissed, because it's too much pressure"

so one day, he's coming to me and saying things like "let's decide together what s does this summer"
and then if i call him and say "i'd like for you and me to take care of taking s to swimming lessons, not your mom" i get a very angry response.

in the same let's decide together condo, he talked about how guilty he felt that he had never thrown a baseball with s.i suggested that maybe we could go play frisbee together or go bike riding (things I nEVER did )

believe me i saw right away - big WRONG MOVE!! that was such a HUGE amount of pressure for him that the conversation that was going pretty well, just slid downhill into the ditch - his whole demeanor changed and he got tense and pulled back and withdrew completely.

i attempted to "save" the situation by pointing out that i had only suggested that because on our Boulder trip, when he suggested dealing with s together , the consequences had been really positive.

so clearly - any suggestion of us doing anything together (3 of us) freaks him out totally

anyway back to the listening thingie -

anyone have good reading suggestions or links on line about how to listen better?
or if thy've come across some good posts here about discussions about listening better to your spouses?

on the other hand, it hasn't escaped my mind that the reason i cannot clearly understand and hear what he's saying is because he's saying everything and nothing and is not consistent with his words and his actions, so how do i deal with that?
_________________________
me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"


Top
#2249940 - 05/30/12 09:56 PM Re: this rocky path WILL smooth out [Re: zig]
vera be fierce Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 934
Well, now you know not to suggest doing things with the 3 of you, let him bring it up, eh?

As for listening - I think Al Turtle has some stuff on his site, if you google his name it should be the first thing that comes up.

If he broaches the idea of deciding what S should do for the summer, could you say, "that's a great idea, S would really like that, he recently said he was interested in XYZ (or leave this part out) what would you suggest?" The way you phrased your response above sounded more like a demand that he interpreted as pressure. Alternately, you could suggest that you will take S to, e.g., swimming, and is there anything H would like to take him to?

Just a thought.

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#2249950 - 05/30/12 10:16 PM Re: this rocky path WILL smooth out [Re: zig]
zig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 1855
Loc: KS
more thoughts:

i see my own role here that is an old pattern, that i'm trying to change now that i am more aware of it. i think it is a combination of expectations , hope disappointment and confusion.

here's how it goes

h throws out some idea or suggestion, talks about it in detail and gets me to agree. I believe and am convinced that this is how he wants to do it. then i expect him to follow through because he has spent time and energy convincing me about it.

As time passes, he doesn't seem to follow through, if i ask i can see he takes it as pressure, so i don't say anything.

after a while i am struggling with disappointment and in the past it built up to resentment (not anymore)

and then i'm just confused because i simply can't figure out what he wants.



so now, of course i realize that it's my own expectation that created my downfall in the situation and so i'm starting NOT to expect, even if he suggests something.

but here's where it gets screwy for me - in the whole co-parenting arena and that's really all i want to focus on right now

i simply do not know where he stands, on any issue - maybe he doesn't either, and i'm just going to take it for granted from now on that unless he makes it really clear, i'll assume he's not interested!

right - sounds like a good way to go BUT

that's what we did before, and i REALLY REALLY want to change that dynamic between us.

i know that i get excited when he suggests something, because i really want him to suggest it and want to try it his way, but then he pulls back and doesn't want to commit to it. i'm thinking that even showing my pleasure at his suggestion makes him uncomfortable

so if anyone has any thoughts on how i could change in this, i would really appreciate it.

maybe to add - this is one of h's MOST sensitive areas - he felt i controlled every decision to do with s. from where i was standing - i hated it, and wished so much that he would be more active himself. i only decided because a decision eventually had to be made. (i do confess also that in the past, i was pretty adamant about doing things a certain way, and even went to the extent of doing something that he totally disagreed with but allowed - taking s to an alternative med doctor)

now , decisions do have to be made - we've managed to sort of go along in some kind of limbo -with doing things very separately, but i feel as if we are transitioning into a new place, where he is at least allowing a discussion to begin about talking about s together.

so i want to get better at hearing what he is trying to say, and to learn to back off better and wait for him to be more clear for himself

thanks
zig
_________________________
me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"


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#2250035 - 05/31/12 04:29 AM Re: this rocky path WILL smooth out [Re: vera be fierce]
zig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 1855
Loc: KS
thanks verab

groan - i knew the second it came out of my mouth that i had said the wrong thing.

actually no - he first agreed quite happily - yeah that sounds good. and over the next minute or so, his whole demeanor changed completely..


oh well - live and learn.

i have a lot to learn about how to ask or say things - it's still fake for me, in the sense that i know what i want to ask, but apparently the way i ask it comes out as control or pressure.

i have felt so much pressure over these last months, trying to figure out how to say things in a way so that it is not taken like that. the sad thing is that my intention isn't at all to pressure or control, but that's how it comes out.

this was something interesting i read today from an astrology site i frequent which gives information in terms of long and short term influences - i'm copying it here because it is entirely about this, which i thought was very interesting

This influence indicates a general reworking of your relationships with others, and you may not always be happy about the outcome. In general, others are resisting your efforts to control the relationship, which you may be doing in spite of your best intentions. But your partner will not ask that the relationship be totally destroyed unless you are so rigid and unwilling to change that there seems no other way out. All your partner wants is to redefine the relationship so that he has a greater say and more room to move. It is possible that these effects may work the other way, that you are the one who is struggling to gain control in a relationship. In either case, the relationship has to express each of you more appropriately than in the past.

there is so much truth here - and it is put so clearly.

if i am indeed "controlling the relationship, in spite of my best intentions" or did do so in the past (and that's how h sees me still, and it gets reconfirmed by the little things i say ), then i have to say that i DON'T at all want to be "rigid and unchanging in my ways"

i feel i have changed a lot, but still keep finding stuff within myself that i need to work on - and this listening/controlling thing is definitely at the top of the list this week

thanks for your response and i will go check Turtle out. also thanks for the example of how to rephrase questions - i need to practice.

zig
_________________________
me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"


Top
#2250061 - 05/31/12 12:30 PM Re: this rocky path WILL smooth out [Re: zig]
vera be fierce Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 934
It does take practice, zig, but I think once you're more aware of it, it will come easier to you. I have some training in mediation and I have used some of those techniques well in my interactions with customer service reps when things go wrong rather then going crazy on them. This includes always thanking them for their help even if they weren't necessarily that helpful and asking questionins in a neutral, open way like, "Can you tell me more about that?" rather than demanding an answer or dictating the direction of the conversation.

Now that I think about it, part of our training was learning how to validate. I always struggled with that in practice. It's not natural, but if you can slow down your brain to process the information that comes in, and add in that step before you jump to the next thing (i.e. what you think should be done), it might help.

Once again, I need to take my own advice! wink

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