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#2246020 - 05/17/12 04:54 PM Re: this rocky path WILL smooth out [Re: zig]
zig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 1855
Loc: KS
oops the editing feature doesn't work - didn't meant to underline those last 2 paragraphs, which were my response
_________________________
me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"


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#2246027 - 05/17/12 05:07 PM Re: this rocky path WILL smooth out [Re: zig]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
[quote=zig]That's a good part of it in a nutshell... but it's not that simple...

there you go again -giving out tidbits, but not the whole story (grin)

so KD what's the "not simple" part - want to give it a shot:)/quote]

lol... well... got some time...? grin

Let me just peek around and make sure 25 isn't watching... wink She's been a great support for me and I know she constantly challenges me to refrain from thinking in terms of MLC and WAS because the focus needs to remain on us... we know this of course, but when one's mind has idle time... well... grin

So using me as an example... let's say that I've done absolutely no "work" on myself...

of course that's not entirely true, but I remain pretty much the same person I was when this all began... I just got out of MY OWN depression and found my footing to move forward...

It's not so simple as a WAS wanting to D and therefore drops the bomb, goes through all the emotional stuff that happens during a D, and pushes through in order to get the desired D and move on with their life...

Because a MLCer may do the same... file D, carry it through completion, and move on with their life...

According to my W, she had made her "decision" (which would be about 2 years ago by my count)... I noticed that she became very distant at that time and it was DIFFERENT than the spew that I was getting prior to that point... but no more "comfortable"...

My "official" bomb drop was mid Oct/10. Well, sort of... there were a series of bomb drops (kinda like those chinese fire crackers with 100s all strung together), but Oct. was the one that was most relevant to me.

My W gave me the whole "I don't FEEL M"... "I don't love you like a wife should love a husband"... "ILYBINILWY"... "I'm only going to MC so that we can better co-parent"... that Nov.10 I announced that I was leaving... she told me "You don't have to leave, I'm not asking you to move out"... Later, I got the "I'm happy living the way we are"... in reference to not carrying whether we D and not wanting to file legal separation...

and on and on and so on...

So I of course did the whole "blubbering idiot" thing... and the opposite of DBing... until I found DBing... and then as we all do, there was a lot of "mistakes" along the way... but eventually, I am "better" now... wink

but... I'm the same person I was when my W M'd me... same morals, ethics, behaviours... I've begun to do some upgrades and do some things that I hadn't been doing at the time, but now... almost 12 years later... I'm doing the "jbnati"...

Where it doesn't make sense is... after two years and "no change" in me... and a legal separation now in place (which was like pulling teeth to get to happen, in lieu of the D that I had asked her for and which would have been probably the same cost, legally)... there's no reason why we need to be M... yet my W has no interest in discussing D... about a year ago my W didn't even want to talk about it... about 6 months ago, my W (when I pressured discussion about it) finally said that she was "OK" with saying she'd be "OK" with D... about three months ago indicating that her life was "great" now, aside from a few "bumps" (financial concerns)...

and about a month ago in response to me indicating that I'm now looking to file, saying "so long as it is cheap and quick".

This above I thought was quite humorous... as we were discussing the SA, my W said that D would be up to me to pay for... so I just find it slightly entertaining that my W would even suggest that the D should be "cheap", since I'm the one who would be paying for it... and "quick"...??? well, two years to D...? So far there's nothing "quick" about it...

Anyhow, like I said, it's not so simple...

because IF my W is MLC... then she's high functioning, low energy... in MLC circles, this is known as a "low energy" MLCer... they want out... but they're in no rush... they are clingy... and they aren't prone to "boomerang" (pursuit/distance - distance/pursuit) patterns... they aren't "vanishers" because they don't just disappear for months or years at a time... they aren't low functioning, so no one else gets to see how crazy their behaviour can be... and they aren't high energy (well, there might be moments, but...) so they aren't buying that red sports car or quitting their job to become monks and nuns... or spending themselves broke (well, not true with my W as she's always been a paycheque to paycheque kinda girl...) or having wild and various affairs... at least, not out in the open...

As you see above, MLC comes in many and varied flavours... each one unique of course, but there are certain "patterns" of each type... and some will even transition from one type to another over the course of their MLC...

I think one of the things that makes the most sense to me is the understand that in (I think it's safe to say) that:

+ MLC = flight

MLCers tend to avoid anything and everything that is uncomfortable.

Parachutist # 1 embraced the experience and let it wash over them, taking it all in with open eyes and open mind...

Parachutist # 2 wanted with every cell in their body, to be out of the experience... the only experience they had was...

aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

no, no, no...

aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

this isn't happening...

aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think that a WAS is willing to do some of the tough work to get what they want.

An MLC... is willing to do the tough work... to avoid the tough work...

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#2246030 - 05/17/12 05:20 PM Re: this rocky path WILL smooth out [Re: ~ kd ~]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
oops, I said low energy are clingy, above...

I meant low energy are not (necessarily) "clingy"... they can be... but not at all "always"...

I think my W might be slightly clingy, because while she has had moments of N/C... more often than not, there seems to be some reason or another to communicate (in MLC parlance, that's an attempt to maintain a connection with the LBS) with me... often under the guise of kid discussion, which then wanders off to other topics that may not have anything to do with the kids...

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#2246038 - 05/17/12 05:33 PM Re: this rocky path WILL smooth out [Re: ~ kd ~]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Again, for those who are reading along and keeping score saying, "my spouse is doing that" and stuff...

Here's the reality of it... the stuff that a MLCer goes through is both "natural" and "human"... IOW, just because your spouse is avoiding talking to you does not make them MLC... just because they start partying, does not make them MLC... just because they have an OP, does not make them MLC... and just because they are avoiding the "tough work" does not make them MLC...

Even while they might appear "confused" about wanting to D... does not make them MLC...

A WAS has had enough with their life... with the status quo... They could very well be entering the more benign (albeit also life changing) sister to MLC, known as a life transition...

The WAS may very well be looking to remake themselves... and while confused as to whether they want to include their spouse in that equation...

They TOO need to GO THROUGH the transition...

And while they may be confused at times... they may not be rushing the D... they may be emotional... even with violent outbursts and spew...

Well... maybe I just described low energy MLCers... crazy

But with someone in transition, they tend to be able to stay more in their logical mind... things... actions... language... it "makes sense" in some ways... and they may not be opposed to talking about it... how they feel... what's bothering them, in a more calm and consistent manner...

They will avoid if something is uncomfortable...

but they are probably less likely to lash out at those who love them... their empathy chip... it's most like still, for the most part, working...

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#2246053 - 05/17/12 06:31 PM Re: this rocky path WILL smooth out [Re: ~ kd ~]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
ok, thought I was done but just one more thing and then I am done, for now... wink

I hope this puts things into perspective on a WAS type / LBS work results case basis:

MLC = (sometimes) some bizarre stuff and the LBS is pretty much to blame for everything... words like "always", "never", "you did", "you didn't", "I'm doing great", "you are messed up", "I've accepted", "you're in denial"... continuous projection and blame is par for the course... major re-writes of history occur. There will be NO sharing of feelings allowed in either direction. Very little to no empathy apparent from the MLCer to the LBS.

LBS work = Nothing the LBS does will matter during the MLC to directly affect positive change in M, let alone the MLCer. The results of the positive changes in the LBSer will be for the benefit of their own life, regardless of what happens... and possibly have positive effect in the R of the two some time in the distant future... how ever that might look... the LBS MUST understand and accept that the M may not survive this situation...

WAS (without transition) = The spouse feels they have been pulling the load far too long. They don't feel their needs are getting met and they want to get D and move on with their life... Complaints by the WAS of the LBS are valid, provable, and unhealthy for a M... in THEIR M... clear logic exists, even if it is not obvious. Pretty much everything in their life remains status quo because they are happy with life, just not their M nor spouse. They MAY re-write history to some degree, in order to feel a little less guilty and more justified for moving on without their spouse. There may be responsible actions and language as well as apologies and empathy, but their minds are made up.

LBS work = Anything the LBS does to "fix" themselves as per the valid complaints of the WAS will benefit the LBS and may have (relatively) immediate affect on the R and may result in the survival of the M if the positive changes continue, are consistent, and habitual...

WAS (with transition) = Life is passing the WAS by and they feel somewhat out of control of their life and their destiny. Although there are things that were bad in the M according to the WAS, it wasn't ALL bad. It is just that there is depression involved (an underlying aspect of transition and MLC) and so there is a sense of hopelessness in the WAS that things will never be as good as they want... or they deserve... they begin to remake themselves and that might mean having to leave the M... many changes of someone in transition will be subtle adjustments... more like course corrections... they are all independent of their spouse... most adult responsibilities are maintained in an appropriate way...

LBS work = Anything the LBS does to "fix" themselves as per the valid complaints of the WAS will benefit the LBS and may have (relatively) immediate affect on the R... but like MLC, the WAS must GO THROUGH the transition. That means that while the R is civil and maybe even friendly... the LBS is left to live in limbo. Only once the WAS has gone through most of the transition, while they are in the process of re-integrating the aspects of the life they want to keep, will the WAS consider keeping the LBS... this will likely be a direct result of how the LBS grew and conducted themselves during the WAS transition.

NB: In ANY of the above cases, it appears quite consistent that there WILL be a revisit of the R and the M in the future. It is just a matter of when. AND in the cases where the M does not survive (and maybe it should not, at least not in it's past form) there may be a new R form and possibly even a new (literally) M.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

zig, you're the one that asked... grin

I hope you don't mind if I invite others / vets to review and clean up the above here, on your thread... smile

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#2246056 - 05/17/12 06:46 PM Re: this rocky path WILL smooth out [Re: ~ kd ~]
vera be fierce Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 934
^^ Bless you, KD.

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#2246060 - 05/17/12 07:03 PM Re: this rocky path WILL smooth out [Re: vera be fierce]
RoRoinMD Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 871
I need to read through this. Seems like some vital information I needed. Thanks KD!
_________________________
Me:34
H:38
SS:19 - lives in NC with his mom
M:3
Bomb #1: 1/3/12 - We're not compatible. I want out.
Bomb #2: 1/12/12 - Found out about EA/PA
H moves out 10/2/12

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#2246062 - 05/17/12 07:05 PM Re: this rocky path WILL smooth out [Re: vera be fierce]
Cadet Offline
Member

Registered: 11/24/09
Posts: 5279
Here is HB's six stages of a MLC as originally written by Jim Conway in the book Men In MLC.

HB's husband was a clinging boomerang and the stages fit that type of crisis very well.

Please note that stages do not always go in order.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=97846&page=1
_________________________
Me-60, D28,S27

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#2246067 - 05/17/12 07:19 PM Re: this rocky path WILL smooth out [Re: Cadet]
needgrace Offline
Member

Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 1345
Hi Zig, you sound so strong ((( )))

Great info on this thread.

Is there a link to more info on the types of MLC?

Thanks.
_________________________
Me(f): 51 W: 41
DP:8 M:3 T:10
"W not happy" 7/11
D final: 8/13

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#2246079 - 05/17/12 08:09 PM Re: this rocky path WILL smooth out [Re: Cadet]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Originally Posted By: verab754
^^ Bless you, KD.


oh sorry, did I sneeze...? grin

You are welcome, of course. I hope this is making sense for people wondering what work they (the LBS) needs to do.

Originally Posted By: RoRoinMD
I need to read through this. Seems like some vital information I needed. Thanks KD!


You are welcome, of course! Just trying to help people.

I really believe in the benefits of empathising with people (the WAS/MLCer) as well as forgiving, letting go anger, and conducting oneself with unconditional love.

I know that my viewpoint on "what" love is differs from others here, but I do believe that love comes from within as a feeling we create in ourselves, before we can present it to others in actions.

In THAT way, love is a choice. But I believe it MUST begin IN US as a spark of feeling we nurture. And if we have baggage in the way, then we may never allow it to shine and BE in a way that is altruistically beneficial to others.

Originally Posted By: needgrace
Is there a link to more info on the types of MLC?


It can often be said that the spouse of a MLCer is a hero... you know... like a "hero spouse"... which is a phrase you could always search your favourite search engine for... which might provide you with some further info regarding MLC stages...

Of course, Cadet (who's W was low energy, I believe) mentioned the Heart's Blessing post of MLC stages, above your post, NG. smile

Originally Posted By: Cadet
Here is HB's six stages of a MLC as originally written by Jim Conway in the book Men In MLC.

HB's husband was a clinging boomerang and the stages fit that type of crisis very well.

Please note that stages do not always go in order.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=97846&page=1


How ARE things with you, Cadet?

BTW...

Time frames of the above WAS types would be as follows:

WAS - a while, but not so long. Most of the work they have done is prior to bomb drop so it's more like a "get'r'dun" time frame

WAS with transition - longer... they need to process and figure their life out... grab a magazine and GAL and give it a good amount of time to "bake"...

MLC - much longer... don't panic, though... yes, there are suggestions that some people never get out of MLC. Maybe that's true, but I am starting to believe that they DO... it's just that the change in them is so drastic and different than the LBS is willing to accept or believe, that it appears the WAS is in perpetual MLC... when they have simply settled into their new life and things are once again consistent and emotionally stable with them...

There are also similarities between all of these "types" that I think can cause a LBS to question what type of behaviour to anticipate from their WAS. But that's another story... lol...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I also think that an LBS needs to be wary that they could be at risk of having their own MLC during this time. It certainly appears this can happen, from some of the stuff I've read and feelings I've had, personally...

I would recommend that IF you feel yourself slipping into chaos and wondering what life really is all about... DON'T PANIC! And... prevent the chaos of crises...! take the time you might need to have your own, controlled and conscious (mini)transition if you would like...

God knows you probably have time for it... grin

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

back to you, zig... wink

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