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AJM #2248183 05/24/12 04:30 PM
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Yup, AJ, that pretty much sums it up. We had a great, GREAT life together. Fantastic. Pursuing and achieving things we both wanted in life. And I know he wanted them too because it's been confirmed by so many people. My family and friends loved him.

But I know now that I never really knew him. Whenever he said "the past is the past it doesn't matter" I just accepted it and figured today and tomorrow are new. Although I said to him "it's important to understand the past because it informs how we live in the future," I accepted that he just didn't want to go there. OK. Let's go fishing.

The extent of his hiding is more visible to me now, and I suspect that what I know is only the tip of the iceburg.

Reconciling our great life with the fact that I never [i]really[/b] knew him is challenging.

It's funny. When I initially implored him to stay all he could say was "I f'ed up again and I can't f up any more." I replied with "you'll do things differently for some new thing but not for your wife and our life together?" "No," he replied, "because you'll never change." Project much?

I seriously doubt he's told her any of the things he hid from me, which is at the heart of the matter. Right alongside it, I think, is a great big sack of anger shoved right down to both sets of toes.

Until he is able to open up, own his past mistakes and take responsibility for life and decisions in it, the record will keep skipping. I REALLY don't want to be part of that. But that's the intellectual part of me. The emotional part sees the boat as symbolic of us and for it to sell means all hope is extinguished. Plus the debt thing...one more stab.

I have my theories as to why he makes the choices and behaves as he does, and it goes right back to family of origin. I've waxed on about it in other posts and won't go there now. Zzzzzzz.

I'm thinking Monday after work will be boat/chat day. He can wait until tomorrow for my email though. My paranoia says he might have been planning to go out on the water this weekend, but I truly don't think he'd do that. I can simply call the marina to verify that the boat is there on land.

Thanks, Folks!


me 45
H 46
T 5
M 2.5
BD Sept 6 2011
OW Sept 8 2011
Threw him out Sept 8 2011
AJM #2248334 05/25/12 02:53 AM
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Hi AJM,

I never have believed it is my job to make anybody happy except possibly myself. However I believe most MLCers have some pretty serious personality 'traits' that externalise their unhappiness and look externally for the source of their happiness.

They will go from relationship to relationship hoping to meet that 'magical' individual.

I am moving on, filing for divorce, like I said in my last post I am concerned that my STBXW will spend the rest of her life looking for that unobtainable person. A sad waste of an intelligent woman's life, when she could look inside for the reasons for her unhappiness and hopefully deal with it.

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So I sent H and email saying that Monday after work is OK to come and get the boat, but that it will be a bit longer to get the rest of his things since I'll have family in for the next couple of weeks. Which is true. I plan to recruit them in getting everything else of his packed up and organized into the garage so he can just take it away.

He replies later in the day with : "Hi W. Monday should work but I may not get there until after 5pm because I may need to go and pay for the boat. I hope this works for you. Thanks for getting back to me."

My understanding from last year is that as long as the boat is for sale under the broker there is no fee, just a commission upon sale. Except in winter, which is why it stayed at my house but was listed on their website.

So it sounds to me like he's planning on using the boat this summer.

Yes, he's been making the payments but he wouldn't qualify for the loan without a co-signer. My name is still on the ownership, the loan, and the insurance. If he uses it, he benefits from what I did for him as a wife and the sale price continues to drop. So far there's been no discussion about any of this.

It felt like a kick in the guts with a steel toed boot. My bff suggested that this is because he is taking what was ours and making it his. Part of it, too, is because I've said to myself that once the boat sells, we're done. I never counted on him using it while my name is still attached, or on him finding someone else to co-sign, should that be the case.

I wrote back with "What do you mean pay for the boat? You're putting it there to sell, aren't you?"

Nothing back yet.

If my suspicion turns out to be correct, how should I handle it? That boat was his pride and joy, but he could only buy it because we co-borrowed.

Is there a way to DB this that won't make him truly hate me?


me 45
H 46
T 5
M 2.5
BD Sept 6 2011
OW Sept 8 2011
Threw him out Sept 8 2011
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Yup. I was correct. He "still hopes to sell the boat" but wants to use it in the mean time and has to pay for docking.

How do I respond?


me 45
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OW Sept 8 2011
Threw him out Sept 8 2011
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H called. It was a surreal conversation in a lot of ways.

I asked him how he was doing, how the heart was, etc. It's all good.

I told him that I wasn't sure I was comfortable with him using the boat while my name is still on the loan, etc, because as long as it's on the water it's going to depreciate and if something happens it will be even worse.

His position is that he's sunk a lot of money into it (agreed, but I did too prior to the split), it's going to depreciate anyway (have no idea about this), and it's fully insured so if anything does happen it's covered.

I asked if he could take on the loan himsef. He said he'd look into it again, but probably not until child support is finished.

I asked if his mother could take over the loan guarantee for him. He said he'd look into that too.

He said he'd be OK with me using the boat and that he'd even bring me fish.

He said he'd even take me out in the boat but I probably wouldn't go. I said I might if you asked me. He said it might be nice to just go out and sit and talk.

He didn't ask me one single thing about how things are with me, the job loss, etc.

But he did say "I don't hate you, w. " I said that's a strange thing to say. He asked why, and I told him because I don't think he hates me, that I've never done anything for him to hate me. He then said "I just don't want you to think I'm trying to $crew you over because I hate you."

*******just stepped away to answer a call from H********

He wanted to know the name of the lender for the boat.

Then he asked me if there was any chance for a transfer at work (he might have remembered this from a previous convo), and I said, with great glee in my voice, "I'm going to be liberated!"

So I told him a little bit about my plan, and how it gives me cold shivers to talk about it, how everybody tells me a light goes on inside when I talk about it, and how I've only now realized how miserable I was at work for so long, that this is an opportunity to do something I've always wanted to do. I told him a little bit about it and he actually asked a couple of questions.

His whole tone changed, in a good way, and he was really happy for me.

He again brought up taking me out in the boat, and said jokingly, the way he used to, that he won't push me out. I said I'd take him up on it, that it would be nice to go for a swim in the river...."but wait! You might drive away!"

He VERY seriously responded with "Never say that. I would never do that. I don't want you to feel scared around me." I said I was joking, and asked, lightly, if he'd lost his sense of humour. He said no, but that's not something he can joke about.

Then we talked a bit about his D, and I told him she and I went for sushi and that she actually ate it! He and I used to do that all the time; step D was a very picky eater; a lot is different.

So...about the boat. In a year and a half when step D is finished her degree he'll be able to take on the loan. He's managing to make the payments on his own. As long as it doesn't sell I don't have to pay my share of the balance.

Part of me thinks it's in my best interest to let him do as he wishes with the boat, as long as I can be emotionally detached from it.

I would love to get:

1. your sense of our conversation

2. your thoughts on not disagreeing to his using the boat.

Thanks!


me 45
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M 2.5
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Threw him out Sept 8 2011
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Sounds like the conversation went well. He didn't have any problem talking to you because you were not bringing up the relationship and him returning home. He felt comfortable in talking w/you and that's good and he was flirting w/you just a bit. Just be careful and keep your expectations at zero.

I don't think you are going to have an issue w/him as long as he's getting to do what he wants. If you have put your foot down about him using he boat, etc., he could have gotten pretty nasty about it. He's right...boats, just like cars, do depreciate in time.

"So...about the boat. In a year and a half when step D is finished her degree he'll be able to take on the loan. He's managing to make the payments on his own. As long as it doesn't sell I don't have to pay my share of the balance." This doesn't make sense to me. If he's paying the loan balance, then he should be able to take on the entire loan now, not a year and a half from now. Is he gaslighting you on this?

For me, personally, I would have an issue w/my name being on the loan, as well as on the insurance. For me, he would either have to remove my name from the loan, refinance it and buy me out. I wouldn't want to be responsible for a boat that I am a co-owner w/my xh. But, keep in mind, that's me...you will need to decide how you want to handle the boat situation.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2248591 05/25/12 11:57 PM
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Thanks, Snodderly, for your great insight.

That will be my mantra: be careful and keep your expectations at zero.

The boat loan business... I co-signed the loan because he would not have been able to get it himself. It was meant to be a long term luxury investment so the payments are only $100 every two weeks. He won't be able to get the loan on his own - his only hope is to find another guarantor / co-signer, which is also unlikely to happen. His credit rating was in the toilet when we met. My top tier credit rating is helping him raise it, but it's still not where it needs to be. He promised, and has demonstrated quite clearly over the past 8-9 months, that he won't default. I believe him.

My gut tells me to not get in the way of this. We both acknowledged how much he loves the boat. If his attachment is allowed to grow, then it's more likely that he'll hang on to it and buy me out next year.

I just needed to process the emotional aspect of it and am pretty sure I have. I had told him Monday, but I think I might just call him tonight and let him know that he can come take it when I'm out tomorrow.


me 45
H 46
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M 2.5
BD Sept 6 2011
OW Sept 8 2011
Threw him out Sept 8 2011
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If you feel that you can trust him, then by all means work w/him concerning the boat. I do hope that he can sell it sometime in the near future so that this will be one more thing that has been completed and your name cleared off of it.

Keep your emotions in check when you call him. Again, this is another business deal and you will do better if you remember this when communicating w/him.

Good luck!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
job #2248696 05/26/12 12:47 PM
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I decided not to call H last night, and to wait until this morning to email him with my thoughts re: the boat. I wasn't sure what to say, how to put it. It wasn't permission I was granting, and I don't necessarily agree 100%.

The answer came to me when I read Brookie's new thread, which brought me to tears.

This is what I wrote:

"Hi H. I slept on our conversation and all I can really say is life is short. Please do enjoy the boat. It's your pride and joy - I know how you love it and what pride and peace it brings you. I trust you with this."

As Blue Rodeo says, "love and understanding are the best answers I've heard yet."

I thought hard yesterday about the boat thing. My angst wasn't about the boat at all. It was about letting go, or hanging on rather. And control. I know this, and have let them go.


me 45
H 46
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BD Sept 6 2011
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Threw him out Sept 8 2011
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Heard back from H.

"Thank you W. I do look forward to fishing with you. We will need to find some dates so you can join me on the boat. Take care and thank you again. H."

I'll leave it to him to find some dates.


me 45
H 46
T 5
M 2.5
BD Sept 6 2011
OW Sept 8 2011
Threw him out Sept 8 2011
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