Hmm. His reaction today (crying?) was interesting. Maybe best in the future to give him a quick warm arm squeeze as you're walking away instead of asking if he's crying?
Honestly, I really don't know if he was crying or not... and it caught me off guard so I guess you could say I panicked. LOL!!
As for the gift... an album seems to be a bit heavy given your situation. What about a single picture of the kids together? If he's receptive to that, then maybe the album sometime later. I'd say go ahead and maybe design the album now if you have time, as a creative outlet, and hold it in your pocket for a bit.
You're probably right, the album is a bit much but I do like your way of thinking by creating it now anyway for the creative outlet. It really is the main reason I wanted to make it. I mean, it's pictures of my kids, why wouldn't I want to make something beautiful of them? Actually, the more I think about it, I should just make the album for myself!!
One 5x7 of all of them would suffice... or maybe he'll get nothing at all. I'll think about it.
I wanted to mention something else that happened today that I had forgotten about... I ran to S4's side of the car and I was barefoot and the road was insanely hot so I had to jump in the back of the car with S4 to stop my feet from burning. My D6 had run back into the house to grab something so I just sat there with S4 waiting for her to come back out and my H is just standing by the door talking with us.
S4 suddenly says, "Daddy, when are you going to live with Mommy again?" And I don't remember hearing anything from H. Then S4 says, "remember last time you said that you were going to live with Mommy again?" And my H says, "I did say that."
Then it was the funniest thing... nothing was said for a minute and he blurts out "AWKWARD!!" I about died... this kid is 4!! I didn't even know he knew what that word meant. My H started laughing and I turned to my little boy and said, "Do you even know what that means?" I guess he must because his timing couldn't have been any more perfect.
Me: 32 H: 32 M 9 yrs #1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2 Bomb 8/12/11 H moved out 8/14/11 PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12 Got my own place 8/25/12 H & OW move in together 9/15/12 Still married.
I agree with verab754 re: the gift. A single picture of the kids together seesm more than enough. You can always give more later, but if its too much now, you can't take it back and that could result in moving the sitch backwards a bit.
You seem to be doing well though. He is reaching out to you. Keep making that happen.
((( )))
TPS Me: 44 H: 42 M14 T17 S10 D7 10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month 21/04/12 H is 'DONE' 04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010) July '14 H ends affair May '15 H moves back home
As heartless as it may feel, I would suggest giving him nothing. Encourage the kids to make cards for him but that's it.
Remember that when he feels you pulling away, he will do what he needs to do both consciously and unconsciously to rope you back in and get you to pursue. Asking for a hug was an example of that.
When he starts to get uncomfortable your instinct will be to comfort him. To benefit your sitch don't do that. Be nice, be cordial, be detached. He has no right to ask you for a hug based on how he's acting, don't follow that up with a gift. It will raise your expectations and you WILL be disappointed.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
I shut the door to the car and H was waiting behind me and said, "can I have a hug?"
I said, sure. It seemed like he held on longer than usual. And then when I pulled away he looked like his eyes were watery. I started to walk away and then said, "are you crying?"
I see a lot of myself in your sitch. I really need to read the whole thing and soak up other's advice.
but this jumped out at me. He always does this...even after the last bomb he gave me a BIG hug almost like he was holding me and kissed me on the cheek. It wasn't a "friendly" hug. I once told him he was giving me mixed messages.
Few things feel better than knowing someone loves you / desires you / wants you / needs you. Letting go of that is extremely difficult, regardless of what else is going on. If you can keep it going with minimal effort, it's easy to do, despite the terrible toll it takes on the other person when you don't reciprocate.
Your pursuit and knowing that you're "there" provides them with great comfort. If you can make them begin to question that, you shake their foundation and they need to start to think. When you shake their foundation, they will wage an all-out campaign to keep you on the line, and that often feels to the LBS like a first step toward reconciliation. You get your hopes up, you pursue harder (give them gifts, make overtures), and they disappear.
That's the rollercoaster, up and down. It feels great and so hopeful when they try to pull you back in, it feels very real, and is so very much what you want to believe. Then they pull back and you're left alone again. The only way to win is not to play UNTIL there is NO QUESTION that they want to reconcile, and you'll know when that is.
Accuray
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
He has no right to ask you for a hug based on how he's acting, don't follow that up with a gift.
Accuray
You seriously have the best perspective, Accuray. It's true, why would I want to reward him, so to speak, for continuing on with his affair while still staying married to me? I wouldn't.
What I'm realizing is I'm allowing him to have everything he wants. He isn't being forced to face any consequences for his actions. And I'm not saying I need to teach him a lesson, but I cannot let him have me (as in, the vulnerable me) when he isn't willing to give me him. He's giving that part of him to another woman.
I received some books in the mail over the weekend...
The 5 Love Languages Co-dependent No More The Solo Partner
I've already started The 5 Love Languages. Amazing how easily one little difference in how we interact with each other can change everything. I would suggest this book to everyone. I'm learning that it doesn't just help your marriage relationship but it can also help your relationship with your children. (or any relationship for that matter)
Brit45, what did your H say to you after you told him he was giving you mixed messages? I'm curious as to why they do it.
Me: 32 H: 32 M 9 yrs #1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2 Bomb 8/12/11 H moved out 8/14/11 PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12 Got my own place 8/25/12 H & OW move in together 9/15/12 Still married.
Ha, ha. You just answered my question before I even posted it. Nice. Thank you for your great advice, as always, Accuray.
Now I just need to figure out how to handle these situations in the future. I feel like I need to be prepared beforehand so I'm not caught off guard by his advances. Thoughts??
(It really does feel so strange to pull back because I am so used to being engaged with him by talking and by affection... and to go against that does feel very unnatural. But I can see the need for it.)
Me: 32 H: 32 M 9 yrs #1 D7 #2 S5 #3 D2 Bomb 8/12/11 H moved out 8/14/11 PA started w/H & OW in 1/12 - found out 3/24/12 Got my own place 8/25/12 H & OW move in together 9/15/12 Still married.
Grrrrr JKS, if I were in your shoes I'd be very angry and frustrated.
You are pursuing him under the belief that you can convince H to end this affair, when in fact, only he can decide to do that on his own.
He's feeding you little scraps, little bits of hope, that keep you on the line. He reels you in and then pushes you back away. That works well for him, he has the best of both worlds -- OM to live with and you to take him back any time he wants.
He will keep that cycle going as long as you let him.
How do you break it? You make him wonder if you have moved on. You make it apparent that you no longer *need* him. You're willing to engage with him, but you don't need him. When he sees that, he'll really start to hurt.
Read the post that Brit made to CV on her thread, it might be on page 10, a long post from the perspective of a WAS -- read particularly about what her H did after she left and the impact that had on her.
I think you'll find that instructive.
I really would like for you to stop initiating or engaging in R talks with H completely. This will not unwind on your schedule, and all you're doing is giving yourself whiplash, bouncing between hope and despair.
Accuray
This cracked me up. I've been reading your sitch and I was thinking on this post YES I need to do that and then Accuray says read Brits post...err maybe Brit needs to read Brit's post! I need to not rely on H so much and I'm trying!
but I cannot let him have me (as in, the vulnerable me) when he isn't willing to give me him. He's giving that part of him to another woman.
This is spot on jks. Wow. You are so right. When I think about it this way it somehow seems possible to keep going.
How are you doing? I went of the 5LL website and did the quiz for myself and tried to do it for my H (from my perspective). I sometimes feel like I never ever really listened to him at all.
TPS Me: 44 H: 42 M14 T17 S10 D7 10/10 H moves out after death of his father-same month 21/04/12 H is 'DONE' 04/05/12 OW/PA confirmed (rumors from 2010) July '14 H ends affair May '15 H moves back home
Glad to see you picked up those books. I would recommend reading them in that order and also picking up the Passion Trap if you have not read it already (I did not read Solo Partner as some reviews I read indicated it seemed more geared toward a slightly older generation than ours but I believe the Passion Trap covers much of the same pursuer-distancer dynamic discussion).
As for handling situations in the future - sometimes the best thing you can do if you don't know what to do is do nothing. If he asks you a question, you can tell him you'll get back to him on it because you need to think about it. Etc. Don't feel pressured to act on everything in the moment.
