Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 13 1 2 3 4 5 12 13
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
LBS work = Nothing the LBS does will matter during the MLC to directly affect positive change in M, let alone the MLCer.

The one other point that I might clarify is that on the suface what KD wrote may be correct however the journey of the LBS and MLC'er are tied together.
Those who refuse to make their changes who continue to beg, plead and cry will cause the MLC'er to STICK in the crisis.
We must get on with our lives and live "as if" they are never coming back.
Adhere to DB principles and rules as that is what will help to lead them through their crisis.
So no matter what kind of crisis they are in the LBS must DO the same thing.
In a nut shell, stop pursuit, work on self and let the other person "twist in the wind and crack their heads".
Nothing that we do will speed up the crisis but we can slow it down.

What the DB coaches, 25yearsmlc and others preach is what works.
That I am sure


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
Z
zig Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
wow - what a great discussion - and i hope that the vets and everyone else adds their bit. KD - everyone, thanks for responding. i need some time to reread and process it all myself

heck i was off line for a few hours and came back to all of this - it's great, i love it!

and KD - use my thread for a public discussion, all you want. this is where it's at - i'm finally GETTING it that it's not the everyday details that i need to chronicle here (though i'm sure i'll fall in that ditch every so often!!!)

it's these types of discussions that i think would be much more beneficial, as opposed to focusing on what he said, i did, i said he did - that is for sure the roller coaster. stepping off means seeing the bigger picture and finding one's way through it.

one thing that i have noticed over the last months as i have read through older threads in the archives - there was a lot more discussion along those lines in the threads than there seem to be now. now on most threads , people are writing about the details and others are supporting them and encouraging them to keep the faith, but these sorts of discussions are much harder to find currently.

what i'm finding that helps me the most to keep the faith and all the ingredients of the recipe at the forefront (as opposed to continuously worrying about every detail of the sitch), is when i read discussions such as these - where the bigger picture allows for empathy, understanding, patience and courage to stay still and stand where we are while AT THE SAME TIME gal and get our own life moving forward.

in fact - every time i think about the courage i need to stay the course, i start to cry. i guess i'm going through my own transition here. it's not that i don't trust that i can do it, i think it's more a combination of "wow, i didn't know i could be capable of this, and it touches me deeply" and "is this something that i can do and come out okay on the other side"

i guess until this sitch, i had no idea what i was truly capable of. and i'm sure that could be said of everyone else here, too.


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 934
V
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 934
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem

oh sorry, did I sneeze...? grin


Gesundheit! wink

What I perhaps should have said was thank you, as this is a helpful condensation of a lot of themes that have come up recently on individual threads for which there was no concise response.

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,676
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,676
zig, I've notice the same about reading posts in the archives. There did seem to be a lot more discussion and exchange of ideas-more meat. But maybe it's that we're drawn to the threads with the discussions.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 13,533
Likes: 78
Originally Posted By: labug
But maybe it's that we're drawn to the threads with the discussions.

Or the other ones have been deleted.
They do purge them here from time to time.


Me-70, D37,S36
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
Z
zig Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
journaling

i've been reading intensively - jacks thread, the stages of the LBS and the MLC'er, these last few days - it's been heavy.

i had read the stages of MLC and HB's sermons twice in the last few months, and am now amazed at how much of it i didn't get then, and how much more i get now.

I can also see more clearly where i am in my own process, and understand why what i read before didn't "get through" as it does now. it leads me to believe that in another 2 or 3 months i could possibly be in the same situation - going through another level of understanding that is deeper and more freeing.

i am finally getting it, once again - that keeping my focus on h and what and why and how he's doing whatever, is more about taking the focus off myself and avoiding facing and working through my own issues.

i am now, with this slightly newer understanding, able to turn my focus toward myself just that little bit more.

yesterday was a great day - for the first time, i felt a bit free of this sitch and h. several little things happened, and came up in my mind - and they all had to do with getting a stronger sense of myself and what I could do and what I could be - without him.

i am finding out how entangled i was in how he wanted things (and recognizing how he was the same), and that now i truly do have the freedom to do certain things my way - not because i want to feel control, in any sense, but more because i am feeling MYSELF so much more strongly.

i can be late to a party because that's when i feel like going. i can buy teacups that i like (we were NOT allowed to buy any plates, mugs etc, since we were ceramic artists and should make them ourselves. mil and i broke that rule, and i was never forgiven for it)

so yesterday - i went to 2 parties - late as i liked, when i was ready to go - and hey nobody cared, or noticed and i had a great time. the second party - h and s had been there for 3 hours already - h couldn't wait to ask me why i came so late - just shrugged it off and said i'd been at another one first and had been having fun...

so the best thing that happened yesterday - in the afternoon was - i did a really good long session of yoga - without him in my head, and then a really long meditation right after - and he wasn't in my head for the first time. i could just feel myself, and who i was - and it made me so calm and peaceful

i'm dropping the rope here - after reading crimson's thread over the last couple of days - i feel that i am ready. there is NOTHING to resist, nothing to work for, except myself and who i am and what i want.

i don't need to fix anything, i don't need to take care of anything, except myself. my actions are already showing it - suddenly i am not volunteering to do stuff for h - not offering to pick s up to make his life easy, not trying to say or do things through wondering - is this the right thing to say or do.

i feel relaxed - in a different way. twinges of doubt come up, and they are suddenly really twinges (as opposed to putting me in a panic state of whether i DB'ed right or not)- and i find myself saying oh well, whatever - it's done, not going to worry about how he might be taking it - let's get on with other stuff.

when i let go - i am finding that good things happen. in the last weeks (and many of you read my long rants about SIL and her affair) - i worked hard on separating her out of this sitch, and accepting what she is doing and coming to terms with it and making peace with it - and then, surprise surprise - events led to her emailing me yesterday and telling me what a mess things were and how she and the woman she is having the affair with are having terrible completely unresolvable problems. contact was made and we talked on the phone and were reconnecting a bit. life just keeps going on, doesn't it....

so the secret is for me to find out and to let go of any and all resistance to what doesn't feel good around me, and to just find and stay with what feels good. each time i really do that, i FEEL myself more, good things happen for me and i can feel the possibility of other things than just this, that i want right now

oh and another good thing yesterday - i really felt for the first time, that OTHER things - good things were also a real possibility in my future - it is not something that i have really been able to even begin to feel until now.

i know this was long - but there is so much more that i am discovering. the vets are right , even though i knew that all along - it is one thing to agree with what they are saying - but quite another to genuinely get to that place where one can start and really BE it. and as has been written on this boards - too many times- you just can't do it unless you are ready to.

if one considers the "stages of the lbs" i think that i am going into acceptance, along with the depression and a twinge of resentment. to recognize it for what it is and to understand that it will pass and then i'll be in another stage - that is where the patience and understanding really starts to come for me.

i am so grateful that the amazing people here have spent all this time and energy documenting all of this, so that the ones that come next can make good use of it when we are ready to.


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 227
L
LIO Offline
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 227
Originally Posted By: zig


oh and another good thing yesterday - i really felt for the first time, that OTHER things - good things were also a real possibility in my future - it is not something that i have really been able to even begin to feel until now.

Absolutely! Now is the time for you to shine!

Originally Posted By: zig

i know this was long - but there is so much more that i am discovering. the vets are right , even though i knew that all along - it is one thing to agree with what they are saying - but quite another to genuinely get to that place where one can start and really BE it. and as has been written on this boards - too many times- you just can't do it unless you are ready to.

I am finding that right now as well. I am reading all the old timer's threads, then get into the archives. It's amazing what is on here, and how hopeful it is to see other people's situations, and then see that there is STILL hope, in a R or not. For yourself.


Me& h + S
M: 13 t: 14

H moved 2/12. Own apt 05/12, EAs, PAs, gfriends, oh my!
I'm done. 12/12

"I get knocked down, but I get up again.. you're never gonna keep me down" Chumbawumba
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
Z
zig Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
yes LIO - i'm just getting a real sense of that - HOPE - not for the marriage being saved , but for myself being saved.

i will admit i am not fully there yet, if i am to be completely brutally honest - there is still hope for the marriage to be saved by what i am doing. but also the acknowledgment that even that will pass as the main goal with time, ask go through my changes.

HB had written in one of her sermons about how she felt when they were reconciling about where she stood in the relationship with her h. that because they had gone through each of their changes, they were in a sense, independent of each other - just coming together because they wanted to, and that she was confident that if they didn't stay together they could easily continue on their own paths without it being difficult.

i suppose the short translation of achieving that state in a relationship is the concept of "i will be okay no matter what"

ithanks
zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,239
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,239
Originally Posted By: zig
if one considers the "stages of the lbs" i think that i am going into acceptance, along with the depression and a twinge of resentment. to recognize it for what it is and to understand that it will pass and then i'll be in another stage - that is where the patience and understanding really starts to come for me.


It is a nice place to get to! smile Do not be surprised if you get there several times. In my experience I cycled through several times. Each took less time than the previous. Perhaps we learn to recognize cycling and move through more naturally

As for MLC, vs. WAS, vs. WAS in transition I would suggest not focusing too much upon how to classify the alien. It is natural to do so in the beginning. I certainly wasted time and energy upon it. I am not saying to discount these as they can come in handy if our spouses ever begin to move toward us. Sort of the same kind of confidence litmus paper offers “Yep thought that was acidic”, but it is all subjective, subject to our perceptions.

So I suggest not focusing, for when I ceased focusing upon her and what stage she was in, and began to focus on self, was where I can begin to count real progress.


BITS
Me 55, ACK, when did that happen? Doesn't feel like 55
D 30
S 27

You create your own universe as you go along - Winston Churchill
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
Z
zig Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
Z
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
It is a nice place to get to! Do not be surprised if you get there several times. In my experience I cycled through several times. Each took less time than the previous. Perhaps we learn to recognize cycling and move through more naturally

thanks just stunned - oh, i am beginning to get that, for sure - the cycling for me that is. i think i've been here before, but not along with the detachment that i am experiencing now, so it is a new level.

i tested myself a couple of times today - big grin, here!! i imagined him never coming back, and even thought of him staying with OW, and i didn't get that hole in the pit of my stomach, like i've always done before.

i do realize that i may cycle back into that again, but i believe if i do, it will be shorter and more temporary.

while reading the older threads i came across the "splitting" phase that HB describes.

very interesting,because there is NO DOUBT in my mind that that is what h has started to do recently. i'm writing about it here not because i am staying focused on him, but because it has been instrumental in my reaching this new place within myself.

i noticed that i was beginning to become way more resentful towards h these last 3 weeks than ever during this sitch - i was quite confused about it, because i have focused so much energy towards seeing him and his actions as compassionately and empathetically as i can - often being criticized for being too soft about him.

but his behavior (which is described by the 'splitting') was starting to really make me peeved - he was becoming so inconsistent, that it was getting intolerable - he seems to cycle back and forth through different personas sometimes several times a day. i found myself getting disgusted - but also realizing that i don't really understand what is going on. (i asked mil about it this morning, to confirm that i wasn't imagining it and she confirmed that she too has noticed that each time she sees him it's like a completely different person has walked in the door)

then i read the stuff about splitting and it was an aha moment - and suddenly the light bulb clicked on for me - and i got it. he is just in his own world, totally disconnected (and yes, now i am seeing why so many refer to their WAS as the alien - there are times where there is no resemblance whatsoever to the original!) and it really has nothing to do with me

alongwith the discussion we had in the last couple of days with cat and kd and others, reading about what stage i was at and what he is doing - it suddenly seems so simple - it's okay to let go, walk away myself for a little while.

HB and others are right when they say that the more you read and understand what they and yourself are going through, the more empathy and patience you will be able to acquire. and so suddenly i feel, at least for now, that i have this bottomless well of patience available to me, which is totally different from the patience i thought i had before.

i'm still DB'ing but it feels different now - more about myself than about him.

it's the fear, along with the resistance that does us in along this path. the more i work on and resolve my inner deepest fears, the less threatening the picture of h not coming back seems to be.

how interesting it is to find out how our conscious and subconscious minds really work

oops, sorry this got so long
thanks
zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

Page 3 of 13 1 2 3 4 5 12 13

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard