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I made a mistake last night. I think I was mis-reading my H actions. He kept reaching out to touch me during the day, hug me etc. Kept saying how good I looked. We were actually closer in many ways than we had been in so long. After the kids feel asleep I tried to initiate sex, and got turned down. He said he didn't want to "confuse things". I guess I was confused by his actions. Now I feel stupid, I wish I could take it back.


M 37, H 37
M 10, T 12
S 4
D 2
3/14/12 ILYBNILWY
4/2/12 H consults a L, files nothing
4/26/12 H moves to his new place

I do not want to have regrets
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Tuck that knowledge away for next time, the past is past, learn from it and move on.

We all do those things that make us cringe.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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thanks bug


M 37, H 37
M 10, T 12
S 4
D 2
3/14/12 ILYBNILWY
4/2/12 H consults a L, files nothing
4/26/12 H moves to his new place

I do not want to have regrets
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This is the thing to remember: when you initiate and pursue you take away H's chance AND your chance to find out what he wants.

There is no chance of reconciliation until he has the space to figure out what HE wants.


Best,
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Good one, OT!


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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Hey Fifi,

Glad that OT weighed in, because she's right about the physical affection...

Quote:
I am confused, is he just saying goodbye? Is he just feeling guilty so he is trying to be a good dad?


Here's where I step in and say stop trying to figure out what he's thinking or doing, or analyzing his motivations and intentions. It's not productive.. period. That clearly belongs in the pile of "his business".

Quote:
What about that statement made you bristle? what is your take?


Oh, I have an opinion, Fifi. But what matters the most is what you feel. What I'm thinking is this: are the kids going to be confused? Is it going to prevent you from learning how to get balanced through transition? And to a lesser degree, is it a good boundary for him to be able to maintain status quo? I don't think this would matter AS MUCH if your children were older. But they are basically toddlers and not able to grasp what is happening.

So what I'm really trying to say is that there might have to be some new boundaries created (and enforced) if you feel that this is counterproductive to what is best for the kiddos and for you. At some point, he needs to realize... at the least, acknowledge... that he can't pick and choose what consequences HE wants without first getting input from you. Does this make sense?

I say this should be very individual for your family. My kids were a little older than yours and I was able to reason with at least my oldest (my youngest is developmentally disabled but very aware). And yes, my XH came over for dinner at least once a week way back when simply because they understood that it was just a meal and a way for them to have a little extra time with him at their house (my house). So please know I'm not standing in a hypocritical box, because I understand this one well. I just think the little kids are more disadvantaged in this situation. And then it makes more work for you trying to navigate those murky waters.

Again, do what YOU feel is best for yourself and the kids. I want you to know that I think that while you should take their perspective into consideration, don't be a martyr if this confuses you more. Your feelings come first, Fifi. So don't martyr yourself by doing what others think you *should* be doing if you clearly feel that it is not good for you.

Another boundary for you to consider:

Quote:
He is asleep in S4's bed, said he wanted to stay in case one of the kids woke up tonight since I am feeling a little under the weather.


Well... that was nice of him under the circumstances, but... if you are feeling ill and can't take the kids, then ask him to take them back with him so you can recover. This is something he's going to have to do without you, Fifi. Just mull on that a bit. Part of the consequences of wanting out is actually BEING out. You can enforce boundaries lovingly. "Thank you for being there for the kids while I'm not feeling well. I really appreciate it. Would you mind taking them back to your place so I can get rest?" I think it allows for your confusion when he's dictating the terms of how he engages with you and the kids. Hell, it's even unfair.

Try to get what you need out of all this too. You are going to be the primary caretaker for awhile so it is imperative that you take care of yourself, Fifi. That's the one thing I really learned from this process. Right now, you have to look out for yourself and the kids first.

Make sense?

smile Betsey


"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."

Albert Einstein
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I still cringe when I think of what happened last night. I walked into my IC appointment today and I said I made a huge mistake last night. She said, "I think I know what you are going to say." And she did. She said that would be a very normal response to the way he was acting during our session, because we really seemed to be connecting.

I spent most of the day trying to get it and him out of my mind. I really had felt detachment on some level until yesterday, but he was acting so connected I let my guard down. Lesson learned. I hope.

I have not texted, called or emailed him anything today. Pulling way back after yesterday.

Betsey-
I have been thinking a lot about what you wrote. Thank you for taking the time to give me such thoughtful advice, I appreciate it.

I think that I said ok to the family dinners for 2 reasons.

1. I want to give him a little "taste" of what he is missing, the kids are at such a cute age and they love dinnertime because they get our undivided attention, it has always been a bonding time for us, we used to do it every night.
2. The kids do really seem happier when the 4 of us are together. We haven't officially told them yet, so I am not sure how they will act after they know he has moved.

As far as the other stuff, I hear you. I feel like he hasn't had to miss anything yet, because he is making the rules. I get confused on this because before the bomb he says I controlled everything, so me being flexible is a 180. But like many people express here, when am I a doormat and when am I effectively DBing? I am not sure yet, still a newbie.

Today I guess I am feeling so confused. I need to detach and set boundaries. It is easy when I don't see him, but when he is here being a good dad and engaging me in conversation and grabbing my hand as he walks by me, it is hard not to get sucked back in.

Sorry if this post is scattered, but that is how my brain is right now...


M 37, H 37
M 10, T 12
S 4
D 2
3/14/12 ILYBNILWY
4/2/12 H consults a L, files nothing
4/26/12 H moves to his new place

I do not want to have regrets
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 50
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I just found your threads and read all of them. There were some similarities in our situations, so I was interested.

I am at the beginning of this journey too, we've been going through this about 4 and a half months. I have really started researching and trying to follow divorce busting techniques for about a month and a half, maybe, too. I keep messing up though. Our lines are very blurred on how he says he wants a divorce, he is setting up everything to get a divorce, but he lives like he is going to be with us all the time, over every day, take trips together, more like best friends though. It is confusing for me and I feel like I am always trying to figure out how much is too much. I also feel like I want to encourage as much home time and contact as he will go for, in the hopes he will come around or decide against this choice he has made.

I just wanted to say hi and I'll be reading.


M 36
H 36
D9,S6, Expecting D in August 2012
M 13
T 18
Told me he wanted to separate 12/31/2011
Moved Out 2/2/2012
Didn't want to work on things, wanted divorce 4/20/2012
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Fifi,

I guess I had assumed you guys have told the kids by now. Wow! Really? (I totally understand now why you would say yes to dinner for the time being.) When are you going to tell them?

Quote:
I get confused on this because before the bomb he says I controlled everything, so me being flexible is a 180.


Great conflict, isn't it? Only you know the answers. But in general, try to separate stuff into buckets. You can't control things that are his to control. But if there are issues and situtations that are clearly hurting YOU, then you need to state your boundary and enforce it.

For example, I tend to agree with you on the dinner thing. You wouldn't have this as a boundary merely to hurt him. If that were a consequence because it wasn't good for you or the kids, then it would be okay. But the real reason is that it confuses you and the kiddos.

I'll give you a personal example too. In the first 6 months of my separation, XH used to just drop by and walk in my house, and start doing chores... like maintaining the hot tub we used to have, doing yard work, etc. While I totally appreciated the acts of service (his love language), it bothered me. He WAS doing it out of guilt and then would use it against me about how he still does all these things for me and blah, blah, blah. Although he was helping out the family, it became a resentful, bone of contention for him that came back to bite ME in the butt. I had never asked him to do those things, and having him just drop in when it was convenient for him really put me and the girls off kilter.

So after that, I thanked him for doing things for me, but that he did not have to do it. (A choice.) I would get someone else to do it or do it myself. And I also asked him to please ask me before coming over. That took much longer for him to do. But we eventually got there. Once I started taking reasons for resentment away from him (because it was his crutch in blaming me for controlling him), he slowly had to deal with the choices that HE made.

So be careful of those traps for your H to manipulate situations to suit his cause. Address them with loving detachment. If you can't do it now without injecting emotion, invoke the 24 hour rule.

I don't know if your DB coach suggested you keep a solution journal, but Laurie did with me and it was very helpful in monitoring and changing my behaviors and tactics. I would journal situations, how I handled them, and the results. If they didn't work well, I'd change things up. It held ME accountable for how I operated with him. I employed the 180s that worked and ditched stuff that didn't. I use those things with him today. In fact, that whole P/A thing with choices was borne out of my solution journal.

Because of my reactive, controlling tendencies, I employed the 24 hour rule. I forced myself to wait 24 hours before addressing stuff that wasn't working for me. I'm telling you without hesitation, that it was the best thing I had ever done. I STILL do it... with him, my work people, my clients and parents in the volleyball club (parents are bothersome things). It literally forces a fresh perspective, calming down, rationalizing things, and diffusing emotions. BUT - and this is important - if after 24 hours I still needed to address something with him, I gave myself the green light to do so. I worked on script outlines so I stayed on task and took it from there. And I monitored the results. I monitored the verbal and nonverbal cues he gave me. THAT was MY 180, Fifi.

Quote:
but when he is here being a good dad and engaging me in conversation and grabbing my hand as he walks by me, it is hard not to get sucked back in.


I do not want to discourage you from allowing physical contact when he chooses it. So please don't read into what I'm going to say next. For early on purposes, until you get the hang of things, IF him touching you leads you to jumping to conclusions or confusion or even getting sucked into reciprocating and you find that it sets you back with him, you clearly have the right to stand up for yourself. (Again, I'm only saying this if you find that it leads you to emotions and behaviors that hurt your overall cause.)

A loving way to do this would be to say to him, "Can I ask for a favor?" (Hopefully he says yes.) "When you touch me or hug me without my consent, I find myself wanting to reciprocate and then I feel confused. Until I can respond appropriately, can you ask me if it's okay first? Thanks."

You own your feelings for it. Ask him for help. If he's willing to do this for you, that indicates respect for you. So don't be afraid to ask for what you want and need. You just have to do it in a way that you own your feelings and don't point out that his behavior is bad... because it isn't.

Crap, does any of this make sense?

Hopefully, you find something here that you can use...

smile Betsey


"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."

Albert Einstein
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Hey Betsey- Thanks for the long reply. I am super confused right now on the boundary thing. He let himself into the house this am because he wanted to be here when the kids woke up. Seems like he is reaching out. Seems "nice".

At lunch he texted me that he got a new phone so he got a new plan, I could take him off our old one. It was a family plan of 2, he and I. So either he doesn't want me to see who he is talking to or he is trying to irritate me, show me he is in charge of himself. I really don't think there is an OW because he looks like hell and he is always hanging around here too much.

Tonight was "his night" to be with the kids (at our family home). He feel asleep in my bed with our S4, I had to ask him to get up and leave about 4 times.

After the phone incident this afternoon I called and scheduled a phone coaching session in the morning. Hopefully that will give me some clarity. I can't think straight right now. I will post again after my coaching session.


M 37, H 37
M 10, T 12
S 4
D 2
3/14/12 ILYBNILWY
4/2/12 H consults a L, files nothing
4/26/12 H moves to his new place

I do not want to have regrets
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