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#2244520 - 05/11/12 04:18 PM Re: Learning, Unlearning, Doing it Differently #2 [Re: jks]
Crimson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 1293
Well Sandi, and others - the path is becoming more clear. Allow me to share the last 15 hours of my life.....

So last night I texted W to see if she was around. I asked her to call after she put S down for the night if she could. She texts "what's up?". I just respond that I just wanted to talk - nothing threatining, no arguments. Again, she texts "what's up?". I replied just trying to get a better understanding of things. She replied that she was exhausted - I said that I could relate and that when she had time to talk I would be available. I told her that there were some things that I would appreciate her unput on that would help me figure some things out (bad word choice?) and told her specifically that it was not about the legal stuff at all.

After that, she never replied and did not call.

This morning, she called me as I was pulling out of our edition. I didn't feel that her being at work and me being on the road would be the best time to discuss - but clearly she wanted to know what was going on in my mind - so I decided to go for it.

I asked her, essentially, what she felt/thought working on our relationship looked like to her. Told her that knowing that would be helpful to me. She never answered.

She immediately started to question why I was even asking. I can't dictate the whole conversation, but the gist of it was this -

She feels that I am applying some kind of pressure to her because of the settlement hearing on Monday - that the timing of me asking these questions is "suspect" - and then she said if she rewinds to the last time we had pending legal proceedings I wrote her that letter. So it is obvious she thinks that everything I am doing is some kind of ploy. I told her that it wasn't and that me reaching out to her had nothing to do with Monday....that Monday was going to happen either way. I said I hoped that she would trust me when I say that is not what I was doing. She reponded "I've told you before that I have very little trust in you - if I did we wouldn't be here".

She told me that she is not the one I should come to for advice or guidance in this situation. That I need to do what I think is right for me....that she never lead me on to think that there was some kind of "reunion" coming. Keep in mind, she was rather "passionate" with her delivery here, but I kept calm. I kept trying to re-ask the question - "what does working on R look like to you" - she still didn't give an answer.

I told her, calmly, that I had enjoyed hanging out with her, S - and doing things together. That even if it comes to D, I would want to continue doing that - continue working on the R.

In a nutshell, I think she was trying to tell me that

1.) She doesn't know what it would look like
2.) She thinks I am trying to run some kind of ploy in terms of negotiation of Monday (I told her Monday is going to be what it is)
3.) She still does not trust me

She said that it would be best that we have no contact until after the legal "stuff" is over. I will respect that. Don't know how much of that she meant and how much was said in the frustration she was feeling in the moment. Either way, I will respect it.

I came with the best of intentions, honestly. But she seemed to think otherwise. Sometimes I feel as though I just can't win. If I stay quiet I get anxious....if I speak up, then it's some kind of tactic or ploy. There is nothing you can do when the other person has no trust in you - despite the fact that I think I have done a lot to regain some of it.

She said again that she is still just trying to live things one day at a time, and struggling to do that. She felt that I was pressuring her.

I get it. It's time for me drop the rope and move on. It's just hard to do because I will miss her a lot - even though our interactions are limited.

Side note: I said in the conversation that I was trying to get a sense of what was best to do for my and S's life. She said rather firmly, "What do you mean by THAT?" - I explained, but still doubt if it registered.

Feeling rather defeated, but at least I have a better picture of what I need to do. Don't kow why I feel that pulling away will only make things worse (i.e. - "you were just making changes to call of divorce") - but I am thinking that is where I need to go right now.

Crimson

Crimson

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#2244523 - 05/11/12 04:25 PM Re: Learning, Unlearning, Doing it Differently #2 [Re: Crimson]
scaredsilly Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 1219
she will think what she wants and what justifies her actions. you know your truth.
_________________________
M:63
H:53
S:41, SS:28, SS:25, SD:23
M:15
T:16

Bomb:12/17/11, "I think we should go our separate ways."
H moves to his mother's house, 4/1/12
12/21/12: H moves back home, piecing


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#2244530 - 05/11/12 04:43 PM Re: Learning, Unlearning, Doing it Differently #2 [Re: scaredsilly]
vera be fierce Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 934
Crimson, that must have been hard to do that conversation from your car! Since she said she is feeling pressured and wants no contact until the legal part is done, it unfortunately sounds like that is what it may be coming to for you. At least she is telling you what she needs, for now. Can you see how she might think that reaching out at this point, so close to Monday, would make her suspicious? As SS noted, she will think what she wants and you will not be able to use your words to convince her of anything at this point. Take care of yourself this weekend.

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#2244556 - 05/11/12 06:27 PM Re: Learning, Unlearning, Doing it Differently #2 [Re: vera be fierce]
Crimson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 1293
Yeah - it blows, but I have no choice but to accept it. I still don't fully undestand what she is thinking long term - if anything. Seems like going day to day is about the best she can do.

I feel like all of the progress that we have made has been lost - like it never happened. What I was feared happening happened. I asked her about something, peacefully - and she iterpreted it as me pressuring her and was put off. I didn't pressure....I just asked questions.

When I told her some of my feelings - "letting things go will be hard for me", etc. - she responded "Listen to you, it's all me, me, me with you". I said that I can only speak about me and my feelings - not hers. I told her that me trying to tell her her feelings is part of what got us here in the first place. By the way, she does this ^^^^ a lot when I talk about my feelings.

Oh well - I tried, and I tried with the best of intentions. I can't control her, how she reacts to what I say, how she interprets what I say and what she does with it. I can control me - and that is about it.

Crimson

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#2244566 - 05/11/12 07:09 PM Re: Learning, Unlearning, Doing it Differently #2 [Re: Crimson]
2thepoint Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1692
Crimson - I'm sorry the conversation didn't go well. It would have probably been better to have had that conversation in person instead of over the phone, but that is water under the bridge now, I suppose.

Quote:
I get it. It's time for me drop the rope and move on. It's just hard to do because I will miss her a lot - even though our interactions are limited.


I'd say that yes it is time for you to drop the rope. Do you know how to do that? Go back and reread Sandi's post to you on the topic if you have doubts.

Good luck, Crimson. I'm really sorry things have turned out the way they have. You'll survive though. Do you believe that?
_________________________
Me48 W50 S15 S11
M20 T23
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife

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#2244569 - 05/11/12 07:22 PM Re: Learning, Unlearning, Doing it Differently #2 [Re: 2thepoint]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
One of the problems with initiating any conversation with the WAS is that the LBS has expectations.

Crimson, a lot of any of the decisions that you have made appear to have continued to be in an effort to save your M. A lot of conversations you have with her appear as though you feel you can change her mind with words, or some physical gestures which suggest that you are interested in or committed to her.

What we find is, until the WAS is wanting to R... they ARE NOT... and until they tell the WAS that they ARE... there is nothing the LBS can do... IF your W is willing and ready to R, then she will let you know in a way that you will know... generally with words that are similar to "I would like to work on our R and this is how I would like to do it".

The LBS words can be misinterpreted by and twisted by the WAS... this is witnessed time and time again...

ACTIONS will be very clear to the WAS. No words are necessary. Unless they ask about the actions.

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#2244574 - 05/11/12 07:55 PM Re: Learning, Unlearning, Doing it Differently #2 [Re: ~ kd ~]
Crimson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 1293
I agree with you, KD. And I was trying to show through my actions (being flexible with time with s, trying to be more thoughtful, etc.) because I believed actions spoke louder than words. I honestly was trying to signal signs of change.

Clearly, she is not really in a place where she can say she wants to work on things. I get that now, and I get that it is time for me to go away. If it is not about the baby and not urgent, I won't communicate.

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#2244575 - 05/11/12 08:06 PM Re: Learning, Unlearning, Doing it Differently #2 [Re: Crimson]
Crimson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 1293
Contd......

I will struggle with going dark. I will really miss her and feel as if I a setting things back. But I am really beginning to believe that being this available, this flexible has worked less in my favor than I would have hoped. I think it may have done some incremental good - we never fought, argued, and so on - and that's not bad. But at BEST she is confused, at WORST she is done.

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#2244579 - 05/11/12 08:23 PM Re: Learning, Unlearning, Doing it Differently #2 [Re: Crimson]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Yes, your actions were ALSO based on an expectation that your W would suddenly desire you (since your words weren't getting through).

And your actions were clear, even if your words were not... your W understood them loud and clear...

and said...

"I need space..."

and when she didn't get that space...

she "attacked"...

I know you understand that and I'm really just posting that "pattern" as a reminder to others that we see this, time and time again...

Both word AND actions, which the LBS uses with expectations of getting the WAS to "see changes" and desire the LBS back are seen as pressure...

if and until the WAS changes their mind...

which many WAS will say often doesn't happen until it is very clear to the WAS that the LBS has detached and moved on...

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#2244587 - 05/11/12 09:07 PM Re: Learning, Unlearning, Doing it Differently #2 [Re: ~ kd ~]
Crimson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 1293
I think that I got sucked in by her desire to go back to counselling and some of the things she said while there that even to a jaded individual sounded like she wanted to work on things. Hell, she said she was open to spending time together and that maybe she didn't try or communicate well enough. It really seemed like it was a soft yellow light for me.

Up until yesterday interactions were positive, we were able to go to church together, freindly texts - it felt light slow progressive growth. Fools gold perhaps.

So should I go back to a strict interpretation of the 37 rules now??

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