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I've been wanting to share some of my thoughts about marriage on facebook for a while, but I've been keeping quiet.

There is an article in The Atlantic from 2003 that cites MWD's Sex-Starved Marriage that I was reading back in November or December that I wanted to share, so I left that tab open in my browser. For 6 months. Anyway, I shared it, but my introduction to the article broke my silence on the issue of marriage.

This is what I wrote:
Quote:
Caveat: This is not about *my* marriage, per se.
I've done a lot of reading and a lot of thinking about Marriage in modern America. There is a lot of dissatisfaction on the parts of both genders, and it worries me that seemingly fewer adolescents have access to married parents, a stable home, and a model of a healthy working marriage. I think that children of all ages need those things, but teens have the least chance of their parents' marriage having lasted that long.

This is upsetting to me. Marriage and the lack of conviction and commitment around it now common in our culture is something that I think more people ought to be thinking about, especially those people in marriages themselves. I haven't seen an authoritative figure, but all the books say half of all marriages end in divorce - and they've all said that for over 20 years. My gut tells me that number is higher now.

Couples are woefully uneducated on what causes the deterioration of marital relationships, how to know when it is happening, and how to restore that relationship to health. After saying, "until death do us part; I do", it is so easy for one spouse (or both!) to take his or her commitment for granted and stand by, unaware, until their partner or their relationship is bent past the breaking point.

The article I'm sharing today isn't about all of that directly. It is about sex-starved marriages, which are an increasingly common phenomenon, according to marriage counselors. The relationship dynamics referenced here, though, are from the same pool of over-stress, role confusion, resentments, and detachment that are driving many marriages to dissolution.

This isn't exactly where I would plan to start this discussion with anyone, but I've had a browser tab open with this article in it to remind me to share it since before Christmas. It's time to close that tab.

There is no doubt in my mind that part of the problem we face as a nation is that in the rejection of standard gender roles, marriage has suffered. You conservatives out there are probably saying, "Well, duh!", but I'm glad misogyny is no longer something you can air in polite company. I'll argue there isn't anything wrong with gender equality, in all areas of life, and for the sake of future generations of boys and girls, I would not at all like to see it regress. I'm glad to live in a society where I am not expected to be unavailable to my wife and children's inner lives, and I am proud to have spent more hours rocking my children to sleep than many mothers ever do.

I believe, though, that in the wake of the confusion, resentment, and loss of a certain "mojo" brought about by haphazard redefinition of these roles, we as a nation and within each couple need to spend some more time thinking about how we ensure the new roles we choose preserve the magic of a secure marriage.


Article:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2003/01/the-wifely-duty/2659/


- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
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Realizing I may have insulted some people, I followed that up with:

"Note: I am not associating conservatives with misogynists. I merely mean that watering down gender roles, which most conservatives would argue against, has been linked hand-in-hand with reversing some profound wrongs, even if it has done some harm to traditional marriage structure. I think that in time, more marriages choosing a wide range gender roles will will find healthier balances that benefit all parties."

Which probably didn't help at all.


- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 209
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If you have a thought, I might offend someone, why the hell would you post that? No it didn't help. You need to control your urges to telling everyone your views on marriage. You need to be the better man. Forget about the preaching. Worry only about you and your actions. Detach and control your urges.


H 37
W 38
M 11
T 18
D 4
S 10
Bomb 27/11/2010
Separated still living in the same house 1/1/2012
No D Papers No Separation Papers
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Damn. I've been holding that in for more than 6 months. That wasn't long enough?

I really do think there is something wrong with marriage in this country and I want to talk about it. Do I have to wait until mine is resolved?

That wasn't to my wife or about my wife. Is it really that bad? I haven't had a blog in years. When I want to tell people what I'm thinking about, Facebook is where I do it. I'm 10 months into my sitch and have said nothing to anyone yet.

The fact that I'm willing to talk about this thing openly when I know it might be upsetting to my W is a sign of my current detachment. That post had very little to do with her and I wasn't thinking of her when I wrote it.


The truth is that I'm a little less concerned what my wife's reactions to things are now.

Maybe I'm off on the wrong path, but I feel more honest and whole to be saying this stuff to my friends.


- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 243
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I'm feeling more and more comfortable with whatever the future holds.

My wife told me in our last few heart-to-hearts that what she wanted all along was to be separate for a time and see if reconnection and reconciliation were possible down the line - 6 to 12 months. All along I was against it because it is just outside the boundaries of what I think marriage is supposed to be and far outside the bounds of what I want to do for my kids.

I have pushed hard to give my wife some more distance since the last time we've talked. I asked to go home early on her birthday instead of enjoying our friends' company as usual. I didn't try to see her or make any grand gestures for Mother's day. I stayed out of the rooms that she was in Friday night when I stayed at the house. (That was hard because W was hanging out with my D15, that I rarely get to spend time with and I felt depressed in general). I haven't called or texted except in response to her.

Maybe after a few weeks, this will make some difference and she'll be less inclined to move out of the house and move forward with the divorce.

But I'm not sure that's what I want any more.

I face two very different possibilities right now. One is to continue to be a doormat, let her have almost everything she wants, give loads of space, and employ squirrel-taming techniques to slowly lure her back into considering continuing or M.

There is more than a 50% chance that will fail, I figure at this point, and I don't think it's something I want to do (at least not for long) without some re-assurances on her part that she will either cool it on the divorce proceedings, attend some counseling sessions, or both.

The other possibility is accepting and acting as if I'm going to move on without her. That means moving back into the house (but still giving as much space as is possible.), putting the ball in her court for finding a separate place to be, spending a ton on my lawyer to begin the fight for equal custody of the kids during the school week, and coming after her for the tax money.

If she really needs to move out before we can have improvement, I don't see why option 2 isn't for the best. If we are never going to reconcile, option 2 seems the best. The main strike against option 2 is that moving back home back in August is what shot down my wife's hopes that we could separate and potentially heal in the first place.

She decided that when I moved home that I was never going to give her space and she had no option but divorce. She's really sore about this and acts traumatized when she thinks it might happen again.

That actually really annoys me about her. She acts traumatized a lot of the time. She looks panicky, hunched over, can't look people in the eye, shakes, and nearly every statement that comes out of her contains distorted thinking. (literally every one of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_distortion)

Obviously, she's not faking it. I feel bad for her. But it's not like I've ever hit her or yelled at her or threatened her. I'm willing to look at and change just about anything about the way I interact with her or anyone else to make the marriage stable, but I think her heightened emotional reactivity has more to do with her than it does with me. And, I guess, that's why she needs the space. Maybe she does need to detox and figure herself out before we can have a real marriage.

We have a counseling session scheduled for Monday the 21st. I'm not saying I'm going to move back in, and if my counselor thinks it's a bad idea, I just won't, but I would like to discuss it.

But it may be time to stop worrying about what will upset her and push her away and tend to myself and the life I want to have with my kids.


- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,602
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"One is to continue to be a doormat, let her have almost everything she wants, give loads of space, and employ squirrel-taming techniques to slowly lure her back into considering continuing or M."

Why the hell do you think you're being a "doormat". Listen, you made a choice which in itself is empowering. The doormat mentality is just a state of mind. You give her loads of space and what she wants because you WANT to. If you don't, then don't. She doesn't see you as a doormat. She just chooses not to see you at all. As much as you choose to get her attention.

If you're going to do things to ease things at home, there's nothing wrong with that. You just don't go out of your way to do so. You allow your W to make you feel the way you do. There is no such thing as a "doormat". You made a choice based on your values, convictions, whatever. Take strength in that.

However, if you consider to see yourself, again SEE YOURSELF as a doormat, then you will do nothing but gain resentment in the end towards your W.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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"doormat" = risking losing (some) access to my kids because it is a contentious issue and fighting for them makes her very sensitive.

Maybe letting her feel that she has all the power in the relationship isn't all that good for it anyway. I think I have to draw a line. I'm not willing to lose my kids, and that is where she says she wants to go.

I will tell you that I am nearly 100% certain she does not want to lead me on. But I will also tell you that coded in her actions or things she *very* rarely says, I think she does think about having a separation that might allow for repairing our marriage. When I am patient and quiet, she does come closer.

When I say very little, eventually (weeks) she does open up to me a bit.

So that makes me want to tread very carefully. I don't want to scare her away.

But right now, I'm starting to feel that I'm not really being responsible for my long-term interests.


- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 243
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losing (some) access to my kids =

I want equal custody, at least. I'd be happy with full. She wants to have the kids during the school week and for me to have them part of the weekend.

I know that means me becoming disconnected from the teachers, the day-to-day business of raising kids, and really makes me a parental 3rd wheel.

I say no. Go ahead and tell me that I can still be a good dad even with less contact with the kids. To that I respond, "Kids are resilient. They bounce back from divorce." People say that to comfort themselves because they are "doing the best that they can do."

I'm not a weekend dad. It's not in my DNA.


- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 12,602
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The issue between your kids is separate from you and your wife.

You are their father, so are entitled to certain rights and decisions as much as her. Fighting for your kids doesn't mean that you let her do whatever she wants. You do what you feel are right for your kids. Right now she's not putting the kids' welfares first. She's only thinking of herself.

This is why I usually never suggest the LBS to leave the house. All it does is empower the WAS to believe they can do whatever they want.

"But I will also tell you that coded in her actions or things she *very* rarely says, I think she does think about having a separation that might allow for repairing our marriage. "

Mindreading. Don't interpret what she's doing. Just do what you need to do from the idea that you want to do it.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 243
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Originally Posted By: MrBond
Mindreading. Don't interpret what she's doing. Just do what you need to do from the idea that you want to do it.


Caught me.

I forgot not to do that. :P


- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room
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