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#2244634 - 05/11/12 10:05 PM Re: Learning, Unlearning, Doing it Differently #2 [Re: bustorama]
bustorama Offline
Member

Registered: 06/26/10
Posts: 519
My post from 05/01 is still about where I think you should be. Maybe even a bit more distant now since you have pressured/pursued her more since then.

Originally Posted By: bustorama
Crimson, my friend, you are as anxious about getting things "right" as I was. I still think your big picture is that you need to relax and let life come to you more than you need to worry about if you are getting things "right."


Originally Posted By: bustorama
The problem is that the more that YOU try to open their heart actively (by pursuit/pressure/asking about R/working on R), the more they defensively shut off to you -- because they see it as your ulterior motives -- it being about you and your needs, rather than about her hurt and her needs to feel safe and loved again.


Originally Posted By: Crimson
And if it IS trust that needs to be rebuilt (assuming that she is honest about the postives she's stated above) how to I do I help her get that back over time? I know that it is a matter of being consistent - and I think I have been doing a reasonable job there. But what more is there to it? If anything? And what if being "consistent" has a "pursuing" feel to it?


Originally Posted By: bustorama
See above. You just be a damn good guy living your life with your S and treat her well when she approaches you. The most powerful thing you really can do is to really listen to her and be emotionally there for her. So much of attachment is about that. Don't overdo it or feel compelled that you need to initiate anything or flatter/pursue her or it will backfire.


Quote:
Which brings me to my next point - "work on things". What does that mean for a WAW? She kind of pulled the plug on MC and I have not reintroduced the topic in awhile....should I?


Originally Posted By: bustorama
No, don't reintroduce MC. Don't try to control what "working on things" means. Let her define it. You simply agree, say, sure, I'm all about working on things. Then get busy with yourself and live your life with your S. Let her initiate whatever she means by "working on things." You want her to be the one to initiate the steps. Just be ready to reciprocate with mojo. If she doesn't initiate anything to "work on things," then fine you have your answer. Her clock will be slower than you would like things to be, so you need to GAL and be busy with yourself.

She's got alot going on before she can get back into a relationship with you since she is in the midst of a divorce.
_________________________
Me-41
W-37
D10, D6, D3
T-Since 12/2001
Married-9/2004
She Moved Out-5/28/2010
Piecing begins-04/2011
Now-back together
My Thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304

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#2244697 - 05/12/12 11:04 AM Re: Learning, Unlearning, Doing it Differently #2 [Re: bustorama]
Crimson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 1163
Thank you for the responses, Busto.

I know how the LBS feels changes seemingly day by day, but today I feel like just waving the white flag. Maybe tomorrow or next week or next month will be different, but today that's where I am.

I went to the Diamond Backs - Giants game last night with a dear friend from grad school. We were talking about my sitch and the my w stating that we shouldn't communicate until the conclusion of legal proceedings. Then, *poof* - she texts me a picture of s with a big smile on his face - like she never said not to communicate. I didn't respond.

I hope I have the strength to be done for awhile. I feel as though if she had a choice between reading something I do as negative or positive towards her she would take negative every time. For now, I just can't take it anymore. God knows I have done nothing but try to be positive, supportive and present.



Crimson
_________________________
M: 40/W: 40
T:8 M:6
S: 3
Bomb: 9/10/11
W Files: 9/22/11
D: 7/12
W Moves out: 11/10/11

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#2244703 - 05/12/12 11:55 AM Re: Learning, Unlearning, Doing it Differently #2 [Re: Crimson]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Crimson, I realize that we try to not label a WAS with MLC... the reality is, the work is the same, regardless...

I do think that you might get some insight though, to take a closer look at MLC...

I know, I know, vets... but the confusion she appears to be showing... Crimson, if this is MLC...

Again, detach... GAL... get out of your W's head... and be prepared that this could be a much longer path, yet...

IDK, I would love to hear from a WAS regarding this confusion... does a WAS really "forget" boundaries and send these types of "mixed messages"...?

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#2244706 - 05/12/12 12:28 PM Re: Learning, Unlearning, Doing it Differently #2 [Re: ~ kd ~]
Crimson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 1163
KD-

The thought has crossed my mind a million times but I have dismissed it because, as you said, the work is the same. Moreover, there is nothing I can do about it. And lord knows don't dare introduce the topic to her.

Holding arm on minute, yelling at me the next, wanting a D, wanting to go through IVF again, saying we shouldn't communicate, then sending text messages.....I could go on.

I don't know for sure what MLC looks like, but like I said - I have wondered. Regardless, it remains a path I should probably stay off of - because really, what can I do about it anyway if that is what part of this is?
_________________________
M: 40/W: 40
T:8 M:6
S: 3
Bomb: 9/10/11
W Files: 9/22/11
D: 7/12
W Moves out: 11/10/11

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#2244707 - 05/12/12 12:41 PM Re: Learning, Unlearning, Doing it Differently #2 [Re: ~ kd ~]
2thepoint Offline
Member

Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 1692
Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
IDK, I would love to hear from a WAS regarding this confusion... does a WAS really "forget" boundaries and send these types of "mixed messages"...?


I'm not a WAS but I'd say the answer to your question is a resounding, YES!

One minute my W says she is DONE, the next she is talking about wills, vacations, boob jobs. One day she says she needs space, the next she is planning whole weekends together with the family. One month she is going away for awhile, the next she is asking to go to the movies, out to eat, etc.

It is a wall of confusion!!
_________________________
Me48 W50 S15 S11
M20 T23
Bomb-9/11; A-11/11; I move out 11/11

It's easy to find our bottom, it is our top that requires cultivation.

Every rough spot adds to our emotional constitution. -Barney Fife

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#2244708 - 05/12/12 12:47 PM Re: Learning, Unlearning, Doing it Differently #2 [Re: Crimson]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Well, the one thing that IS different Crimson...

With MLC... even though they might "notice" your changes... they do that back and forth thing and there are a lot of mixed messages if the LBS focuses too much on the MLCer...

A WAS might notice the changes and if there is a move towards you... they are moving towards you...

An MLCer... they appear to move towards the LBS... then they panic and attack... and then they send gifts... or invite us to be friends... only to tell us they want no contact...

No 180 or any effort on your part would stop your W from moving towards... or moving away... from you... she will do that... she talks about a future with you, yet is continuing on the D path...

the work is the same... but... the results are different... you can not make ANY assumptions on the MLCer words NOR actions... and certainly expectations due to perceived patterns... don't even go there...

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#2244709 - 05/12/12 12:50 PM Re: Learning, Unlearning, Doing it Differently #2 [Re: ~ kd ~]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
2tp, I understand what you are saying... although... from the WAS's I've read here... I'm not too sure about that...

I don't think that Sandi or Brit said to their H's that they wanted to get D and have another child with their H's... crazy

I'm not sure that either of them decided to break it off with their H's thinking that the world would be rosy... and I don't think they went out and got boob jobs... lol smile

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#2244711 - 05/12/12 01:05 PM Re: Learning, Unlearning, Doing it Differently #2 [Re: ~ kd ~]
Crimson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 1163
".....then they panic and attack".

Interesting. I can see some of that pattern. The glaring moment was, again, the night we went out together and had a great time and then we are in the car for 5 minutes and she goes OFF on me because I said I wanted our son to have a sibling some day and "I never say I want it to be with her".

Wasn't going to post this, but a few Sundays ago at dinner she let me know she was no longer taking her antidepressants. She has been on them since we met - and long before. Depression runs in BOTH of our families. I don't think that that decision on her part is really going to help things much - especially at a time like this.

Sad thing is, at this stage I really don't think she has done a lot of looking inward to figure this out. Yes, she has said she was possibly mirroring communication problems she witnessed in her parents relationship - which was a good step, but I haven't heard much beyond that. I am still of the belief that if one was to ask her what caused all of this she would spend 80% of her breath on me.

Does MLC ever END? Is it possible to be there at 38-39 years old?
_________________________
M: 40/W: 40
T:8 M:6
S: 3
Bomb: 9/10/11
W Files: 9/22/11
D: 7/12
W Moves out: 11/10/11

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#2244712 - 05/12/12 01:11 PM Re: Learning, Unlearning, Doing it Differently #2 [Re: Crimson]
Crimson Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/11
Posts: 1163
...just to add more clarity, w said in an e-mail a few weeks ago regarding our last frozen embryo that that "is something that we started as a married couple and need to see through".
_________________________
M: 40/W: 40
T:8 M:6
S: 3
Bomb: 9/10/11
W Files: 9/22/11
D: 7/12
W Moves out: 11/10/11

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#2244718 - 05/12/12 01:42 PM Re: Learning, Unlearning, Doing it Differently #2 [Re: Crimson]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
MLC is named such because it (the namesake) generally occurs "mid life"... this same type of crises can occur at any period in a person's life when they might normally go through a "controlled transition" ie. they KNOW they are having to deal with a change of life... and they work through it consciously...

it occurs more often in mid life because they often didn't do any or all of the "needed" work during prior transitions... something often triggers the crises... that trigger could be something as far back as two years prior to the stuff that becomes blatantly obvious to the spouse (or other loved ones and close friends)...

Does it end? Yes, I would say usually... although the person who comes out on the other side of the transition may not be the person we knew... transitions are about remaking ourselves... if prior transitions were not completed, these changes can be abrupt and vast... there are those who appear to be in perpetual MLC, although they could simply be people who've made it through and are simply just vastly different people who we still expect to be the "old" person so our cognitive dissonance cannot be resolved and we don't "like" them in their new form... (and they don't like us much, either... biker / ballerina type differences...)

There are milder MLCs it seems, and those people may have gone through prior transitions in a more functional or complete way...

Anyhow, just putting that out there. There are just some things that your W is doing that IS confusing... and that's a pretty good indicator of MLC... not the "do I want to leave, or stay and try"...

For example, my W knows my mom is an alcoholic... my dad a recovering alcoholic (about 7 years dry)... and my W hides a box of liquor chocolates along with D9's stuff... doesn't say anything about it to me... tells D9 that it's for "someone over there if they want like, Gramma or Grampa..."... ??? crazy Of course yesterday was my b-day... so for all I know she might have meant them for me... but I've never liked those things and she USED to know that...

Not all the confusion is that obvious...

Again... IF your W is MLC... all you have is time... even if you are D... but you only have your life to live... detached from any thought of M or R... or thinking that anything you do at this time will help... but it is good stuff for the future... what you do now, like planting a bamboo... will yield noticeable results in the long term...

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