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Originally Posted By: labug
She has a lot of anger but I don't have to tell you that. Has she ever tried AlAnon? Not that she would take that suggestion from you but it might help her. I don't think you should raise it with her as that would probably fan the flames.

Just memorize "I feel disrespected when you talk to me that way.If you continue to talk to me in that tone, I will leave." And then leave if she continues. It won't make a difference the first time or maybe not the 10th time or maybe never. But you can remove yourself from the situation.


I just wanted to add, when you make boundaries, it's not to control someone else or teach them a lesson, it's to protect you, to keep you safe.

Also, never set a boundary you don't intend to enforce.

Cool about the Highland Games!


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
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brit-

thank you for taking the time to read my ramblins. i am glad i found this board. it has helped me to look at myself from different points of view.

i read a book on controlled separation. i got the idea for a separation agreement that we made up. it is for 4 months, to be re evaluated and extended if needed, at the end of that time. one of the thimgs is we will not date other people. i know that requires trust on my part. the problem is, i have been getting lied to about everything, so my trust just isnt there. she has not done anything she said she was going to. yes, i have insecurities. i do not fear the OM. i fear my wife is leaving me for any guy that isnt me. she has repeatedly said she is going to date if she wants. sometimes i think she does it to make me mad.

as far as the proof...i dont think it will "satisfy" me. it would help me make an informed decision. then i question myself. why does it matter? if i am done, i am done. if not, im not. i am not sure i will be able to trust or respect her. i have a big problem respecting someone who treats me like garbage. i would love for her to want to be with me, and me only. this is the 3rd EA that i know about. it is hard to trust, even though i want to.

i am a "nice guy" to a point. i will do alot for people. when they start taking advantage of me, i stop. sometimes i tell them off, sometimes i dont. i have felt like i didnt deserve my wife for a long time. the things she has said to me really hurt my self esteem. being on this board has helped me see that i do deserve her. i am a good person and she is hurt, so she is saying things to hurt me.

i havent got a nice haircut in a long time. i try to look nice with what i have. i do pretty good. as for new clothes, does the clearance rack count? lol.. i spend money on my kids, that makes me feel good. i love watching them play sports and they can be very expensive. especially hockey. it is all worth it.

thank you for the list on how to build self esteem. there are alot of things on there i should be doing.


m:31 W:32
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Divorced: 12/12/12

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bug-

thanks again for the feedback. i enjoy hearing questions from people. i really do want to be a better person. i am trying really hard to work on me. some days are better than others but i keep working.

as far as the proof. i will need it. i am not trying to have her make a decision. this one i am going to make. i dont want to make the wrong one. if the OM is more important than me and our family, that is her choice. my choice is to not put up with it. if she really is not talking to him, then we can hopefully move on to work on things. i still dont really know what to do. i am not going to share my wife with other men. if thats what she wants, she will have to find someone else. she doesnt like me talking to other women, and i respect that.

i think i do know what i own in the break down. i have spent alot of time figuring it out. at least what i percieved. she still will not tell me.

the boundries thing is something i am working on. i am not trying to have them to control her. i am having them to protect me. i am so sick of being treated like i have been. that kind of treatment makes me not want to be around her. even now that she is moved out, she is still treating me like sh1t. i dont get it. the reason she was miserable is because she had to see me all the time she said. now she doesnt and is still the same with me.
she is not happy, and still trying to blame me it seems. not mindreading, just how it appears. i could be way off so i am not trying to focus on it.

the highland games i am looking forward to. beginning of september. training should be fun. it goes with my exercise routine nicely. i am going to be in good shape again. i am liking that alot.


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Originally Posted By: Dakota
as far as the proof. i will need it. i am not trying to have her make a decision. this one i am going to make. i dont want to make the wrong one. if the OM is more important than me and our family, that is her choice. my choice is to not put up with it.


Salvation lies not in the action of another but in your reaction to it.

Your W is choosing right now to compromise her vows. She probably has some very good reasons in her head to back up that decision.

She might have told you some of those reasons.

If you walk away because of that you will be compromising your own vows yes?

When you said your vows did you say:

"I will love and honor you all the days of my life

Unless you don't do the same for me?"

You didn't say that did you?

But that is what you meant isn't it? That is what you're saying up there isn't it?

How does her betrayal make you feel about you?

If you walk away because of her choice you allow that choice to define you

You allow her to dictate what your vows meant to you.

I am not here to convince you to stand for your vows and your M

That is your choice and yours alone. just do it or not do it for the right reasons.

it is the difference between being a victim and victory.

Your victory.

Your success does not depend on your W unless you allow it.


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Quote:
the highland games i am looking forward to. beginning of september. training should be fun. it goes with my exercise routine nicely. i am going to be in good shape again. i am liking that alot.
This is what I meant when I suggested haircut and a new shirt. When you look good you feel good. And working out will certainly give you an energy release!

I suggested a controlled separation after I had a change of heart and he rightly said that was about control. Well he didn't say that he just said there was no way he was going to agree to something like when I'd had my months of doing whatever I wanted. I think that you are a lot like me in that you'd rather have an answer NOW even if it's not the answer you want. But you know what if you DEMAND an answer you might be changing the real one...does that make sense? The last thing a WAS wants is to feel like they're being put in a corner or forced to make a decision.

Someone on here (maybe it was Bug) said that when you want to cling or control the most that's when you need to detach more. This is very very difficult to say you love someone enough to let them have the time and space to be themselves without lording it over them or manipulating the sitch. Like my Dad says, "if it were easy, everyone would do it"

I take comfort in the fact that at the very very very least in 20 years I can look back and say I made have chosen to end my marriage without going to MC, or exploring every option or reading every book...but then I tried to make things right and I gave it my all and during that time I learned a lot about being the best partner I can be to whoever is lucky to be at my side.

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TG-

that is a valid point. i did say i would honor her, no matter what. that is something i must figure out. i would like nothing more than to be together again. i do want salvation. i want my family again. my mind and heart are all over the place. i am easily confused. i am confused over what you meant by victory. i dont know if i can ever look at her the same way. so

the betrayal hurts. so bad. it has me feeling like less than a man. i wonder why i was not good enough. why she had to go outside of our M to get what she needed/wanted. what i could have done differently. why there is so much hate and anger. whenever i have been betrayed by someone before, i cut all ties. now whenever i look at her, it hurts. i feel the betrayal over and over and over again. i choose not to think about it. then it sneaks up on me. i know i will never get an apology. i dont really want one.

how do i trust ever again? is it a decision i make? is there something she will do to get me to believe her again? these are rhetorical q's i know.


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brit-

i do know what you mean about the answer. that is exactly how i feel. i do want it now, but i do feel if i get it now, it might not be the real answer. i do not want to put her in a corner. i am in that place and it isnt a place i would wish on anyone. i dont like how i feel.

your dad has a valid point. it would be nice if more people would do it. i also want to be able to look back and knew i did everything i could to save us. i need to stop fighting for it. detach is the key. it is so easy to say. i feel incapable of it most of the time. i am not contacting her. when she contacts me i respond if i need to. then she says i dont leave her alone. its a lose lose.

i am having such a hard timr understanding her thinking. i am the type who needs to understand things. i am having problems with the 180 thing too. the behaviors i try to change end up making me feel like a doormat. so that is no change. patience is the only thing i can do. i am so not good at that. she is planning on coming here tomorrow to get kids stuff. i dont want to be here. but if im not, she will take stuff that she is not supposed to.

that is also not fair to my kids. they deserve to have their parents get along for their sake. i want my kids to be able to have the chances they deserve. maybe i am a lost cause. i dont know. maybe i am just a super slow learner.


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My dad says that about anything that's really tough. If it were easy everyone would do it.

All those things that you say are hard...that's the 180. I've been doing it for 2 weeks. The first time you're just proud of yourself that you did it! Then it feels easier the next time...staying in that uncertainty. At some point you'll see a return because when your behaviour changes other people's change. It's natural cause and effect.
You see it if you're in a great mood you walk into work and someone is really upset and negative it changes how you feel.
Anyway once you see a return it will motivate you to keep or up.
I used to look at that list of 37 and think that's too hard I can't do that I'm proactive, I take charge, I go after what I want....but everything H says he wants means I can't do that. His number one reason for not working on us is my "strong personality" so I'm stepping back!

Just try it!

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Quote:
now whenever i look at her, it hurts. i feel the betrayal over and over and over again.


this is what i meant by victim.

This is a process and maybe you should read Cat's thread on here about the stages of the LBS

I'll bump it up for you.

You are having raw emotion right now and that is no place to make important decisions from.

I would venture this is likely the biggest decision you may make in your life. It will effect the rest of your life and the lives of your children

And your W.

Victory is when you reach your goals. Is your goal to feel betrayed by your W the rest of your life?

this won't come to you in a day but over the course of many days, months and years. You will never stop leaarning when you decide to make the tougher decision.

So what do you control?

What are your goals here?


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brit-

your feedback is very helpful. i have nothing to lose sticking to the 37 rules. i am going to fake being happy for now. eventually i will be, im sure. you are right about how moods can affect other people. i need patience. desperately.

if you dont mind me asking..what made you decide to want to work on your M? how long had you given up before you left.


m:31 W:32
M:8 T:11
S:10
D:5
Bomb:1/07/12
Separated:4/23/12
Divorced: 12/12/12

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