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#2248646 - 05/26/12 03:16 AM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: 25yearsmlc]
Navyguy Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/11
Posts: 349
Loc: Northern VA
Still here. Sorry I haven't posted, things have been really busy at work and things with W have been pretty bad.. Things have been getting worse. I am 99% sure that W is an alcoholic now. She told me tonight that she hasn't been able to keep any food down lately, then told me that alcohol helps her feel better. Every night w sits outside on the deck and drinks and smokes alone. I am so sick of her and her nonsense. I don't deserve this and I will not be treated like this anymore.

W's parents will be here this week. After they leave, I plan to tell W that I am not willing to continue like this. I'm not sure I would even accept her being willing to work on things at this point. I know this is going to be extremely difficult, and i plan to spend next week getting ready for it and contacting a lawyer.

Sorry I don't have better news...although some of you may see this as exactly that. smile. I actually feel like there is a light at the end of the tunnel now.

Between W and the girl i chased for most of college before meeting W, I have spent the better part of 14 years being abused...giving love and not getting it back. It's time for me to find happiness and a woman that loves me as much as I love her.

I will try to post more about the specifics of the past few weeks soon. It just makes me so angry when I talk or write about it...I feel foolish.
_________________________
BITS
M: 34
W: 33
T12, M9
D7, S5
ILYBINILY: June 09
Unofficially Separated (long distance): 1/2/11
W came home: 3/17/11
EE: July 2012
Official Member of the Rope-Dropping Club: Oct 2012
Piecing: April 2013

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#2248848 - 05/27/12 01:07 AM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: Navyguy]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10725
Loc: west coast
Don't feel foolish. Feel resolute.

We are all pulling for you, Navy.

Truly There really are good women out there, who are ready to risk their hearts and put it on the line for a good loving man. Healthy women, oh sure, they will come with flaws like we all do...

but fundamentally healthy women are willing to work on the flaws and are mainly just

HAPPY TO LOVE, AND BE LOVED...
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

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#2248849 - 05/27/12 01:08 AM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: 25yearsmlc]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10725
Loc: west coast
PS

Navy, if you have been in r's with women that pretty much both sukked -

may I suggest you talk about it with a good c?

God knows you don't want to find yourself here again.

Keep us posted please.
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

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#2249092 - 05/28/12 01:45 AM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: 25yearsmlc]
greenblue90 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 685
Navy
We are happy for you really, you two will finally have the reasons you need to truly change. Your W is effectively killing the goose the lays the golden eggs, she seriously needs to learn that lesson. If she doesn't well she never would have been a good W then and good riddance.

I think for you it's important to learn that you can give 1000% and still not get even 1% of what you gave.

Here's a little game theory example that worked wonders for me.

Ok so you have 2 prisoners, if neither confesses most likely both will get set free since there won't be enough evidence. If one confesses then he gets a light sentence and the other goes away for life, and vice versa. If both confess they both get medium sentences.

In this scenario it seems that it is in the best interest of both to tell on each other, if you try to play nice and keep your mouth shut you'll most likely lose out, because the other will most likely take the plea deal.

Ok so what does this have to do with marriage?

You can be nice to each other, or you can be jerks.

You can both be nice, and you get marital bliss.

Or you can both be jerks and hate your lives but most likely divorce.

Or (as is your situation) one can be nice, and the other a jerk. In this case the jerk wins because they get love and affection in exchange for nothing.

Ok now imagine this game is played millions of times in a marriage. Its called adding repetition. Navy, you've been losing out big time.

Ok so we know there will be repetition, and in the last game you were nice and your W was mean. She took advantage of you.

It is in your interest for the next time you "play" to NOT be nice. So if she is mean you in turn be mean (within boundaries of course). Let her know that when she plays nice you will be nice.

See in the past whenever she was mean she'd get nice so she had no incentive to change, so if you are "not nice" her mean will not get rewarded but rather punished.

On the other hand if she is nice, then next you return with nice, so she is rewarded and encouraged.

She now has an incentive to be nice because mean got her nothing, and nice got her everything.

In a nutshell nice guys get taken advantage of.

Now I realize it may be to late for your W, but hearing that your ex was also terrible shows that the common denominator is YOU. Consider changing it up in your future dealings with your W and other women.

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#2249144 - 05/28/12 12:46 PM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: Navyguy]
Starsky309 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 5017
Loc: Florida
Navy,

I'm as pro-marrige as anyone, but "good riddance," I say. You've given this your best shot -- hell, to a fault at times, if you'd listened to hardasses like me sometimes smirk -- and your wife has shown no change in her destructive behavior, and in fact has gotten worse.

"Hitting bottom" is the ONLY chance she has of saving herself, in my opinion. There comes a time when you have to save yourself, first, and I believe this is now one of those times.

Starsky
_________________________
At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)

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#2249266 - 05/29/12 12:18 AM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: Starsky309]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10725
Loc: west coast
Navy,

I'm with Starsky on this.

IF she wakes up, it's ONLY going to be b/c you moved on. And even then, I doubt it would happen very quickly, based on her history.

But it might happen - and if it does, we can all support the restoration of your marriage if that's what YOU want.

And if it doesn't, then you'll know you've given this your real true most patient best. Your choices are few. And please, please

think about this-


Sometimes, "trying again" and "staying on..."

is a form of giving up.
It's giving up on yourself and a happier future b/c at some level you are more comfortable with a miserable present day life

then a future of the unknown.

I believe with all my heart that a man like you on his own, will heal and then will look for love in a healthy woman, &

will be a lot happier eventually, than a man in your shoes now, just taking it, day after day - w/no change likely EVER.

And your kids matter too.

What are they learning by witnessing this nasty loveless marriage?


What else could you teach them instead?

Just Think about it.

((( )))
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

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#2249329 - 05/29/12 04:32 AM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: 25yearsmlc]
greenblue90 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 685
Navy
25 and Starsky gave me the same advice less than a year ago. It's good advice it really is. That being said I didn't take it. At least not 100%

Here's what I did:

I opened all the doors, let her know she was free to leave, that I wasn't going to chase her once she did.

I slowly and systematically let her know what my unnegotiables are, held fast to them.

In essence I slowly and consistently held her to task, and let her know she was free to walk if she disagreed.

So far the results have been encouraging.

The path has been hell. Lots of sleepless nights, when you think you finally pushed too hard and she will leave tomorrow.

But the point is you have to push, and every time you push it'll feel like she will leave, heck she may even do it, and that's not bad. What type of woman is she if she leaves for you demanding respect?

The saying it's always darkest before dawn holds true here. It may get real ugly she may say and do some pretty mean things. If you hold on to yourself she'll realize she can't stay and treat you like she does.

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#2249330 - 05/29/12 04:42 AM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: greenblue90]
greenblue90 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 685
For the record I agree with 25 and Starsky.

It's time for you to open the door out for her, we differ in the pace of how fast. That's not to say they are wrong and I am right.

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#2249341 - 05/29/12 07:36 AM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: greenblue90]
25yearsmlc Offline
Member

Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 10725
Loc: west coast
Originally Posted By: greenblue90
Navy
25 and Starsky gave me the same advice less than a year ago. It's good advice it really is. That being said I didn't take it. At least not 100%

GB, you know, this ^^^ rendition of factss varies so much from mine BUT truly it does not bother me, and I'm NOT angry, okay GB? It's a little funny b/c it's soooo NOT how I recall that exchange.

I know I never told you to give up or to leave your wife.


I thought your "rules of engagement" (my choice of words, hope they don't offend) were structured for failure to start with.

I never bought into your open marriage concept and did not think it could work
I have heard and seen ONE marriage do it and lasted quite a few years, but there were kids to bond them. They were both very secure in their relationship and their sexuality and they got along well in all other areas.

Still, eventually, one of them "Fell in love" with a lover and left the spouse. It was the wife who left. Only on TV have I "seen" it work.

I never believed an open marriage would work or last w/you or your wife.

WAY too many sexual issues existed within your marriage to invite others into it, or so I felt then. Plus her anger and her quasi medical reasons/conditions or excuses (I don't know which, honestly) for no contact...

I recall you saying She's cut you off for "any reason or for no reason" and,

off the top of my head, I don't know if I ever heard of that much sexual manipulation, or using it as a weapon to the extent your w did. Plus she was just mean to you at times.

If I recall correctly, she flat out told you she wasn't attracted to you. I have to hand it to you, Those are harsh words to ever hear in a marriage. (and I think they're off limits. NO ONE ever needs to say that).

Despite the hardships we have faced - that's one of those "too deep for me to heal from" wounds, so I'd have not been able to hang in there. That's JUST ME and my stuff, but hey, more power to you if you can work thru that.

& I Don't know about how things are now...

ANYHOW I never saw that specific issue as being similar in this marriage of Navy's (though his m too, lacks intimacy).

What hits me as most similar is the abuse both women give/gave to their spouses and


from the way you two describe your own behavior, which is probably biased-you're human-

but you both sound reasonably objective when you post here,

so the abuse was just NOT understandable or okay or acceptable then or now.
Or ever. Both wives seemed to believe you h's had unlimited patience and that in a way, since THEY were in pain, you were acceptable scapegoats.

I don't know where or how they learned that, but there's no chance of them UNlearning it by you still accepting it.

How to make it stop? since you only control YOU, that means YOU cannot change THEM

so you may not be able to make them stop, so THEN,

you have to go. They need to KNOW you will leave, for good

if they don't shape up. For some, ONLY ACTUALLY LEAVING or inviting THEM TO GO (Navy I hope that's the choice you make b/c your wife is too depressed and alcoholic to get custody...you need to get it)

Or you can live with an unacceptable level of anger, & ugly behavior directed towards you the rest of your life...

Here's what I did:

I opened all the doors, let her know she was free to leave, that I wasn't going to chase her once she did.


GB, How is this ^^ different from our advice? (He has children, bear in mind). Seems like what Starsky and I are saying.

Except I believe she'll bolt and stay gone for awhile whereas your w has no legit means of support outside of you. But if Navy's wife leaves him for now, so be it.


I slowly and systematically let her know what my unnegotiables are, held fast to them.

How did you "hold fast to them"?

Did you leave when she did them?

OR somehow did she never ever break any of your non negotiables again?

This is the meat of it.


In essence I slowly and consistently held her to task, and let her know she was free to walk if she disagreed.

So far the results have been encouraging.

The path has been hell. Lots of sleepless nights, when you think you finally pushed too hard and she will leave tomorrow.

But the point is you have to push, and every time you push it'll feel like she will leave, heck she may even do it, and that's not bad. What type of woman is she if she leaves for you demanding respect?

good question



The saying it's always darkest before dawn holds true here. It may get real ugly she may say and do some pretty mean things. If you hold on to yourself she'll realize she can't stay and treat you like she does.



I don't know what "she'll realize" but the fact MUST be, that "she can't stay AND treat you like she does."

Are you ready to demonstrate that Navy?
_________________________
m:51 H:55
M: 30 yrs
S25,D23,D15
H goes ALASKAN, solo,2005
I file Sep 2/06
Piecing 7/07
Retrovaille Weekend 8/08
M Restored 8/08

Be Happy OR be "Right"

FORGIVENESS: Your way out of hell

Top
#2249368 - 05/29/12 01:38 PM Re: The Climb - Thread #6 [Re: greenblue90]
Starsky309 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/11/10
Posts: 5017
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: greenblue90
Navy
25 and Starsky gave me the same advice less than a year ago. It's good advice it really is. That being said I didn't take it. At least not 100%

Here's what I did:

I opened all the doors, let her know she was free to leave, that I wasn't going to chase her once she did.

I slowly and systematically let her know what my unnegotiables are, held fast to them.

In essence I slowly and consistently held her to task, and let her know she was free to walk if she disagreed.

So far the results have been encouraging.

The path has been hell. Lots of sleepless nights, when you think you finally pushed too hard and she will leave tomorrow.

But the point is you have to push, and every time you push it'll feel like she will leave, heck she may even do it, and that's not bad. What type of woman is she if she leaves for you demanding respect?



What type of woman is she if you have to do all of that, to get her to stay? confused

"Never treat someone as a priority, who makes you an option."


Starsky
_________________________
At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)

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