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#2245352 - 05/15/12 04:50 PM Re: Recently Seperated Part 11 [Re: ThisDayForward]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
It seems fairly common that a WAS is hoping for the most amicable split. In many cases, it appears that what ever reasons the WAS decides are worth D over, they still will feel guilt...

So as they plan their exit strategy (in a way that benefits them, based on the level of offence they feel has been their plight), they are working out how to "play" the bomb drop, so there is the least amount of emotional damage for all involved.

That would be what I meant by the WAS planning for a "joyous" surprise... notice the word joyous in quotes, as they are certainly aware that there will be nothing joyous about it...

Hope that makes sense for you....

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#2245367 - 05/15/12 05:17 PM Re: Recently Seperated Part 11 [Re: ~ kd ~]
ThisDayForward Offline
Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 2124
So the thing I struggle with and why your post made so much sense is this. If the roles were reversed and I wanted a D I would make a phone call, get a L, and serve her papers. Takes 5 minutes.

My confusion really why isn't she doing this. Is it possible she is having second thoughts on the whole process. That she acts only on the emotions she is currently feeling. 5 days goes by and she thinks what am I doing.

Is it possible she may tell neighbors one thing. Like she did the other day. I want a L but the costs etc.. Then same night invite me over to eat for pizza and next day invite me over for mothers day bbq. She may tell the neighbor this to get her off her back.

I guess Mr. B is right. Stop trying to figure out craziness.

I have the lease to the new place in my inbox. I'm going to take the place. It is perfect spot for me and kids. Plus bigger. 1800 sq feet compared to 690. Condo. It is a year lease but I like have the insurance of having the place. I would hate to lose the place and in 4 days get served papers etc..

I figure it this way. The only way I could move back home is if she was willing to work on M with me. She shows no signs of this so I have to prepare for the worse and hope for the best. The lease could be broken.

So I do think it is a good step to get a nice job (keep hamster busy during day) and have a nicer place.

Yes "joyous" surprise makes sense. She always said that she wants things to be amicable. That is why she invites me over to eat and to bbq's. she states "FOR THE KIDS ONLY". the 2 times we were hanging out more I pursued her. Remember I tried to get laid once and the other time I hugged her. That is when she said "see I can't be nice to you because you interpret it as us getting back together.

So I've learned from that. Even this weekend hanging out. I had zero expectations. I will tell you this. That night leaving BBQ was very tough on me emotionally. Usually I would load up the car and take family home. This time I had to say goodbye to everyone and leave.

KD. I swear to god I feel I could only detach by using some OW. Am I crazy for thinking that???? I feel like that would be the only way for me to ever fully detach. It almost makes me sick thinking about it. The scary part is that my W is so detached nothing I do even bothers her. I swear I could show up to the house with 2 women 1 in each arm and she wouldn't even notice lol

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#2245525 - 05/16/12 02:23 AM Re: Recently Seperated Part 11 [Re: ThisDayForward]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
Originally Posted By: netmaster
So the thing I struggle with and why your post made so much sense is this. If the roles were reversed and I wanted a D I would make a phone call, get a L, and serve her papers. Takes 5 minutes.


I honestly have to say that while no one can tell me that my W is MLC (because as mentioned, one really can't be 100% sure until they are through, and even then... ???), and I did have a couple good members tell me that it was quite likely, it was 25's comments to me that struck me the most.

+ The work is the same.
+ Would it make a difference to you.

One thing does not make someone MLC, but I will agree with you... Unfortunately I have not had a WAS tell me yet that they waffled at filing... that is, if they were absolutely determined to D.

While I have to say that I have seem progress in you, that it is still an uphill battle and long distance for you. So I say completely tongue in cheek... it's unlikely that your W is waffling on the D because she has seen remarkable, positive change in you... grin

That being said, do not stop or slow down on the work you are doing for yourself. The benefits will be tremendous in all aspects of your life and IF your W is MLC, she still will notice the changes. And MLC or WAS, that is a good thing... because it MIGHT lead to their change of heart.

Originally Posted By: netmaster
KD. I swear to god I feel I could only detach by using some OW. Am I crazy for thinking that????


No, NM. It is not "crazy" thinking, if in that context our idea of what crazy is, is similar.

Most people, while they may enjoy sleeping alone, either by habit or by preference... like a warm body to be with, now and then... sometimes more now than then...

Nothing good comes out of an OP... Unless you are appropriately detached, have done a good portion of the work to help yourself, and you are truly done and ready to move on with someone new.

Because you cannot undo something like that. Even if your W never knew, YOU would... and you would probably feel extremely guilty if you and your W reconciled.

Best thing to do about those thoughts is the same as you are to do with your W...

GAL so you don't have time to think about them... you're too busy enjoying everything else that is non-destructive, in life...

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#2245586 - 05/16/12 01:22 PM Re: Recently Seperated Part 11 [Re: ThisDayForward]
ThisDayForward Offline
Member

Registered: 01/16/12
Posts: 2124
When my wife gets in her mood and says "I want a divorce and I want out of this marriage" my goal is to no react or engage . Is there a simple non reactive response I could say to her.

Like "sorry you feel that way and dismiss myself"

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#2245626 - 05/16/12 02:57 PM Re: Recently Seperated Part 11 [Re: ThisDayForward]
~ kd ~ Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 4866
Loc: Canoe'k-land
You want to indicate empathy and you are thinking in the right line. Funny thing about language is almost every word in the dictionary is either directly or in a specific context, subject to (mis)interpretation.

Would you really be sorry that your W would feel a certain way?

Would you be saying that you somehow feel responsible, so you are apologizing to her?

It is often suggested by members on this site to use the phrase:

+ "I understand how you feel that way about (insert topic)."

What you are saying is that you appreciate the reality that she may have a different perspective of something than you do. Nothing more, nothing less. It IS sincere because while she may say that your don't understand HOW she feels (which COULD be correct), that is NOT what you are saying because... well, because you DON'T feel what she is feeling. It might be the same as saying "I agree to disagree", but that statement is more aggressive and really indicates that you disagree so in some ways is saying that you think her opinion or feeling are somehow wrong...

You could stop right there. You do not have to dismiss yourself unless you feel yourself tensing up, suggesting that you may be prone to react soon. Get yourself away BEFORE you react. Have SOMETHING to do that you COULD do randomly, at any given time. That way, you won't be stuck with excusing yourself with something that could be a lie. Yes, it could be needing to go do laundry... or it could be going to the gym... don't use work as an excuse, because that is possibly one of the things that your W did not like, that you buried yourself in work to avoid her. Try to make it FUN stuff... or even things that your think might be interesting to her (but ONLY if it is interesting for you and something you want to do)...

IF you DO believe that it is some offence by you that might have been inappropriate, then by all means, apologize. If that is the case, then apologize ONCE and let it go. No one who is sincere in an apologize should need to apologize more than once. The apology should be sincere and then the offending individual should SHOW that they are sincere by not doing it again or "fixing" what ever behaviour was "broken".

Practice this stuff, NM... because you most likely WILL mess this up initially... but as time goes by and you practice this more and more (and you can use this with ANYONE, so opportunities to practice should be available to you), you will get better at it...

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#2245628 - 05/16/12 03:10 PM Re: Recently Seperated Part 11 [Re: ThisDayForward]
AlwaysTrying Offline
Member

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 243
Originally Posted By: netmaster
When my wife gets in her mood and says "I want a divorce and I want out of this marriage" my goal is to no react or engage . Is there a simple non reactive response I could say to her.


How is this for detached: "That must be really hard for you." I think you get a lot of points for not reacting to this. Let W see you in control of yourself and genuinely sympathetic to her. I think you're right that she does have second thoughts and this is not an easy decision for her. She might say she has made her mind up, but she probably has to convince herself of that on a regular basis. She probably feels guilty.

Her choice and actions hurt you and your kids, so anger and resentment are the obvious reactions. Your sitch probably won't get better if you can't move past anger and emotional reactions and muster some genuine compassion for her when she says those sorts of things.

Nota bene: I stink at divorce busting. I make my own sitch worse on a regular basis. frown My advice is suspect. What do you veterans think?
_________________________
- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room

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#2245631 - 05/16/12 03:22 PM Re: Recently Seperated Part 11 [Re: ~ kd ~]
AlwaysTrying Offline
Member

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 243
KD beat me to it.

Originally Posted By: Kaffe Diem
It is often suggested by members on this site to use the phrase:

+ "I understand how you feel that way about (insert topic)."


I think that sounds like great advice. I wonder if in this specific context it might make more sense to just say, "I understand how you feel that way." rather than "I understand ho you feel that way about our marriage"

Also, I wonder if "I understand how you feel that way. That must be very hard for you." might be a powerful combo. If you are detached enough to say that earnestly and calm enough to hear what happens next, those words might put her at ease to open up a little.

She might just respond to that with some of her genuine feelings which she probably won't talk about with you directly most of the time because she just doesn't feel safe doing so when you are so upset. At least, that's how my WAS is.

Quote:
Practice this stuff, NM... because you most likely WILL mess this up initially... but as time goes by and you practice this more and more (and you can use this with ANYONE, so opportunities to practice should be available to you), you will get better at it...


I strongly agree with this. Rehearse the response and figure out what you are going to do to get a break from the situation if you need to calm down.

I've been reading "High Conflict Couple". It suggests that no one ever questions you when you say you have to go to the bathroom. Close the door. Get some space. Calm down. At that point, it's up to you whether you choose to go back into the same room as your wife. If you choose to do so, at least you will be more in control of your responses.


This probably isn't a good idea, but it is something I would try with my WAS:
"I understand how you feel that way." -> bathroom -> "You know, that must be really hard on you." "What?" "Having to make that sort of decision." My wife has opened up to me after exchanges like that.
_________________________
- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room

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#2245633 - 05/16/12 03:25 PM Re: Recently Seperated Part 11 [Re: AlwaysTrying]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 8918
Loc: Sonoran Desert
The only catch is, I don't think he does understand how she feels about it.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2245635 - 05/16/12 03:37 PM Re: Recently Seperated Part 11 [Re: labug]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 8918
Loc: Sonoran Desert
And I don't mean that about just this sitch. I might be able to say to my H when he said I was controlling and it hurt him: "I understand that I hurt you by being controlling" because I'm a controlling fixer (in recovery) and I admit that. It's a fact.

But about getting a divorce after a long marriage without working at it, I don't understand that. I'm getting to acceptance of that but I may never understand it beyond it was his choice.

It's dangerous to say, "I understand how you feel" because there is no way we can truly understand how another feels. It negates the other's experience and feelings.

The more accurate response might be simply, "I understand that you want a divorce."

Leave the feelings out of it.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S24 S21
Bomb 3/11 Sep 3/11
Piecing 9/13 12/13 Reconciling

"We can make ourselves miserable, or we can make ourselves happy. The amount of work is the same"~Carlos Castenada

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#2245637 - 05/16/12 03:38 PM Re: Recently Seperated Part 11 [Re: labug]
AlwaysTrying Offline
Member

Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 243
Originally Posted By: labug
The only catch is, I don't think he does understand how she feels about it.


That's why the specific wording. "I understand how you feel that way." Not "I understand how you feel."

Also, if she happens to feel safer about opening up, he might start to better understand [i]how[/] she feels.
_________________________
- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room

Top
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