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#2243854 - 05/08/12 11:48 PM Re: Hello, WAW. Is anyone there? [Re: AlwaysTrying]
vera be fierce Offline
Member

Registered: 04/23/12
Posts: 934
Originally Posted By: AlwaysTrying
One thing W mentioned during our DB call was frustration that my clothes were in her room, so I came home on lunch today and took most of them out. There is no way she did not notice it, but she didn't mention it. It's possible that helped put her in the happy mood I mentioned before, but I think that was already going and not really related.


Well, it probably didn't hurt, right? She may never say anything, but if the payoff is a happier mood, that's worth it. Glad you had a good day!

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#2243883 - 05/09/12 08:03 AM Re: Hello, WAW. Is anyone there? [Re: AlwaysTrying]
sandi2 Online   content
Member

Registered: 06/27/07
Posts: 10713
"She feels that it isn't enough space because I come over to the house several days a week to be with the kids."

However, you persist on being there. Yet, you ask her how or when you can show her more space? I think she told you pretty clearly.

Look at the response when you did stay away for just a few weeks:

"I did spend a month mostly leaving her alone, but she would text me and I would text her back about casual stuff. One night she decided to stay up late and watch tv with me and seemed to enjoy being closer. That night I touched her arms as she was going to bed. She stopped in her tracks and said, "I'm so lonely."".

That is exactly what she needs.....to miss you and to think of how M with you can be. She won't do it when you're there so often b/c she feels resentment towards you.

I hear all this talk about the house cleaning. Of course she likes having dinner cooked and the house straightened up! But a maid could do that....and your W would be just as appreciative. But for you, it's not making brownie points as a H!.

She has filed for a D, but she doesn't know how a D feels b/c you are there in her house doing her work and helping the kids with their work. She might prefer to have a life without you being there (since she did file) and she needs to see what it would be like if you still lived there.

Yes, as parents, we owe it to our kids......but sometimes things don't work out like we wish they would, so we have to get another plan in action. You are still trying to play H & daddy there in the house, and it's making your WAW crazy and pushing her farther away.
_________________________
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!

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#2243951 - 05/09/12 12:04 PM Re: Hello, WAW. Is anyone there? [Re: sandi2]
AlwaysTrying Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/11
Posts: 243
I am of two minds. Basically, "How can she do this (to me)?" and "How can I do this (for us)?".

First, how can she do this:
Sandi, you say she needs to see what it would be like to be divorced to see if she wants to keep it that way. Now, I'm going to appear like a control freak, I guess. Here goes...

I don't understand this as a need. I understand it as a selfish "want" that disregards the actual needs of our children. I get that she is resentful.

I don't believe that 20 or 30 years ago this would have happened. I believe I would have spent a few months on the couch and we would have worked it out. I hate this world of disposable marriages. That is not what they are for! Why is this OK? Why does my wife have a chorus of women cheering her on for "being strong"? So many women are clamoring to see another one of their sisters out from under the boot of a man. Women don't need men, except for child support payments, it seems. Where is the friend cheering for "Way to let him show you how he's grown!" or "Way to ask for what you want in your marriage and receive it!"? "Way to foster your children's relationship with their father, sister!" "Way to support your children's needs by working on your marriage!" "Way to honor your vows in a difficult situation! You go, Girl!"

Grumble.

I'm a libertarian-leaning liberal almost democrat ex-objectivist(Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged, etc). That's a load of contradictions, but why do I sound like some self-righteous conservative patriarchal authoritarian? That's the last thing it should add up to.

Part of me still bristles and wants to deny that she has the right to do this. I will concede that actually, anyone has a right to leave their marriage, and the reasons can be quite complicated. But not someone married to me!!! I'm not a bad person! I care so much about those kids and about my wife! I didn't know the trouble I was causing her was so hard on her. I'm so deeply sorry. I can't even conceive of how giving our marriage another shot could possibly fail. I would never let it!

I'm ranting. smile Thanks for coming this far. In summation: It's not fair. Whine. Pout. Stomp.

Maybe she agrees to a certain extent: She has no right to ask me to leave my home and children within the context of our marriage, so she has to end it. Because she does "need the space". And she believes I can't give it to her.

I'm baffled by the idea that an adult is going to "try out" not being married to see if maybe that is better. That was no where in the vows. Maybe it should have been.

I take you to be my wife, for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, for richer or poorer, until death do us part - unless I become unhappy for a time. In this case, let's get divorced and see if I miss you.

I wish we could have got this out right in the beginning. I would never have agreed to that. I would have asked for a provision spelling out how to notify the other party that the marriage was becoming unhappy and steps that would be taken to save it.

I think I'm not alone among LBSs in having thought that married is married. Done deal. Nothing is going to change that. Yes, I know there are things that make you, wife, unhappy. And things that make you happy. Pluses and negatives for me, too. But it all balances out to the positive, right? I wish I had seen the balance sheet. I had no idea how bad it was. I didn't realize that unhappy with certain things meant unhappy with the marriage and looking for a way out.

I know that there are terrible marriages and people married to terrible people, but I didn't imagine I was in that category.

So, part 1 "How can she do this?":
- She is an oath-breaker and untrustworthy
- She doesn't care about the well-being of anyone else
- She doesn't deserve what she's asking for
- I don't deserve to have to deal with this


Part 2: "How can I do this?"

I believe (on faith) that my marriage can be healed.
I believe that I have a responsibility to do what I can to heal it.
I recognize that I have to do things that are painful to make that possible.

I can see that the core problem is really that I'm afraid of losing the kids or of damaging the kids. There is a history of bipolar disorder (and worse) in my family. Becoming bipolar is the result of genetic predisposition and childhood trauma. I'm trying to avoid childhood trauma. My oldest daughter (D15) has dealt with the breakdown of 3 marriages now (her mom and I, her mom and step dad, and now her dad and step mom) and it has torn her to pieces. She literally has dozens of 1-to-3-inch scars where she cut her body to manage the pain and feel some control. Many dozens. It's difficult to know. She is in treatment, and has stopped the self-harm, but she still struggles hard with just getting by day-to-day.

S7 is too much like me. I worry about him becoming bipolar. He is already struggling with ADHD which has gone into overdrive since I've moved out.

So, my compromise with my wife has been: Let's keep the kids in their home and let me step out long enough to give you space. But I guess it's not really working and I need to figure out how to give her more space without hurting the kids.

I can stop spending Friday nights at the house if it helps. I've been thinking of sending her an email that says, "If I don't spend Friday nights at the house, what do you think that would look like? How would you want to do that?"

I can't just surprise her and stop doing it. She needs more planning than that.
_________________________
- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room

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#2243952 - 05/09/12 12:10 PM Re: Hello, WAW. Is anyone there? [Re: AlwaysTrying]
AlwaysTrying Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/11
Posts: 243
Sandi, is there somewhere I can read about your situation and how you were able to see your H in a different light?

I get the feeling that maybe I'm getting on your nerves. Maybe I'm too dense. Maybe I'm doing everything wrong.

I really just want to save my kids. And my marriage. Maybe I really do have to give up on the latter.
_________________________
- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room

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#2243966 - 05/09/12 12:44 PM Re: Hello, WAW. Is anyone there? [Re: AlwaysTrying]
hangten Offline
Member

Registered: 01/13/11
Posts: 209
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Be careful with your rants. You sound a little too righteous. You sound like you want to be right. Try to empathize with your w. Stop with the sanctimonious preaching. Listen to what your w is saying.
_________________________
H 37
W 38
M 11
T 18
D 4
S 10
Bomb 27/11/2010
Separated still living in the same house 1/1/2012
No D Papers No Separation Papers

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#2243990 - 05/09/12 02:17 PM Re: Hello, WAW. Is anyone there? [Re: hangten]
AlwaysTrying Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/11
Posts: 243
I don't think it matters if I'm right or not. She disagrees and I can't make her see my way. I don't want to be right. I am right. The way things are hurts the fabric of society. A Strong America needs Strong Marriages!!!! (that's self parody, guys) I know I bear most of the fault in the run-down of the marriage and that I'm being hypocritical.

I think DB is great, but I really wish there was a way to reach future LBSs and clue them in on what is happening. Or how about a book for future WASs called, "How to fix your marriage by divorcing your clueless spouse and watching them SQUIRM!" Or something. :P

I do believe that Walk-Away Spouses did want to fix their marriages but couldn't reach their partner. My wife said that I became a brick wall to her and she just kept hitting her head against me and it hurt too much.


I did just think of another thing I can do to back off, though. I have my cell phones on W's account and that has been a pain point for her. (afraid that I'll run out of money and she'll have to pay the bill.)

I'm going to see if I can get that switched up today.
_________________________
- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room

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#2244004 - 05/09/12 02:49 PM Re: Hello, WAW. Is anyone there? [Re: AlwaysTrying]
hangten Offline
Member

Registered: 01/13/11
Posts: 209
Loc: Ontario, Canada
You can only control your actions. You can't control your w. What are you advocating hitting on her head and dragging back to your cave? You can not convince your w of anything. Every one of us has free will. If you have a libertarian streak than you will know what that is.
_________________________
H 37
W 38
M 11
T 18
D 4
S 10
Bomb 27/11/2010
Separated still living in the same house 1/1/2012
No D Papers No Separation Papers

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#2244101 - 05/09/12 09:24 PM Re: Hello, WAW. Is anyone there? [Re: AlwaysTrying]
totallydevoted Offline
Member

Registered: 04/05/12
Posts: 90
Originally Posted By: AlwaysTrying
I don't believe that 20 or 30 years ago this would have happened. I believe I would have spent a few months on the couch and we would have worked it out. I hate this world of disposable marriages. That is not what they are for! Why is this OK? Why does my wife have a chorus of women cheering her on for "being strong"? So many women are clamoring to see another one of their sisters out from under the boot of a man. Women don't need men, except for child support payments, it seems. Where is the friend cheering for "Way to let him show you how he's grown!" or "Way to ask for what you want in your marriage and receive it!"? "Way to foster your children's relationship with their father, sister!" "Way to support your children's needs by working on your marriage!" "Way to honor your vows in a difficult situation! You go, Girl!"


I couldn't have said it better myself...society today makes divorce too easy. But, the fact remains that we can only control what we do...no one else. We can only be responsible for our own happiness. if my W would realize this she would stop expecting me to be her sole source of support...not to expect me to be perfect.

But it is what it is...and we must play the hands we're dealt. sounds like the detaching is working...and if not, then hopefully while you detach you GAL and make you the best you can be. If she still cares for you...and there is a little doubt in this D...she'll want you back. Unfortunately...for these WAS...by then...it's most likely too late. Which is their loss, not yours. Timing is everything...what's meant to be, will be.
_________________________
Me:44, W: 39
D:16, D:14, D:11(special needs)
M:17, T:21+
Bomb:3/18/12
W contacted mediator for D:3/27/12
Separate since bomb
Mediation, signed agreement 5/17/12
No talk of D since mediation

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#2244214 - 05/10/12 10:46 AM Re: Hello, WAW. Is anyone there? [Re: totallydevoted]
hangten Offline
Member

Registered: 01/13/11
Posts: 209
Loc: Ontario, Canada
I can't remember who posted this. I am reposting because it helped me.

reaching out" to her now = pushing her away.
Don't forget.

Your Consistent changes + Time = change SHE CAN believe in.
She MAY not choose to believe in the changes, but she sure as heck won't believe you if you keep drawing lines in the sand
and then crossing them.

*Be the best Dad I can-spend quality time with them not just exist in their presence; hug them and tell them I love them; help them learn, and grow; share as many experiences with them as I can; teach them self respect and respect for others; teach them to chase their dreams

*Learn to express my feelings and be vulnerable-say things that I feel don’t just keep them to myself; share my fears; tell people I love that I do and show them

*Be happy-look for the positives in every situation; minimize my negative thoughts; enjoy other people’s joy especially my sons; live for today but plan for tomorrow; do things that I enjoy
_________________________
H 37
W 38
M 11
T 18
D 4
S 10
Bomb 27/11/2010
Separated still living in the same house 1/1/2012
No D Papers No Separation Papers

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#2244344 - 05/10/12 04:13 PM Re: Hello, WAW. Is anyone there? [Re: hangten]
AlwaysTrying Offline
Member

Registered: 10/26/11
Posts: 243
My goal right now: Have W wait and observe before marching ahead with the divorce, and for her to use MC sessions or any other opportunity to explain areas that need improvement (more space, conflict resolution, etc)

I need to set my sights lower. frown

We W and I talked to the DB coach, W put some stuff out there, some of which I could act on right away and have. I am going to strive to reduce contact and give space.

I took most of my clothes out of the room and I'm going to finish the job this weekend if I can. I took my cell phone off of her account (which she thanked me for). I'm not sure what else.

I have a feeling W will meet me at the MC's office on 5/21 and we can discuss progress and what her other needs are.

W's birthday is Saturday. I was thinking about not attending, but I don't know if that's really possible. I've been debating on whether to get her a present. I thought I might skip out on Mother's day.


In other news, I got a message from the lawyers that the divorce is back on the books and they want to schedule a preliminary hearing. I did not let this derail my day and I was quite productive at work.

Now, I *really* don't want to be there for Mother's day. WAW fails at mothering in my book. I care about her. But I don't know how much I can ignore how much she is hurting our children with this malarkey. That's right, I said malarkey. I want to act like I'm not angry. But I am angry. And there is a primative reactive part of my brain, with a quiet but persistent voice saying, "I hate her.". It may not be mature, but it's what I'm feeling. I love her. And I hate her.
_________________________
- All for the kids -
Me:34, W:35
M:7, T:13
S6, D3 + my D15 from previous marriage
July 2011 "I think I need a separation"
W filed D September
Currently living apart - she has the house, I rent a room

Top
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