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UKVA Offline OP
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So to get things started some history.  We met in 1987 and got close really fast. W was 24 at the time, me 28 and a little over a year since I had arrived in the States. She was coming out of a D at the time, had basically married to get out of her parents house, grabbed the first guy who showed any interest in her. He was a jerk and it lasted less than a year.  W was filing papers when we met, and I was of course the knight in shining armor coming to her rescue. Soon we fell in love and our time together was wonderful. Her marriage prevented W from finishing college, so I helped her correct that and get her full teaching degree.  That meant she had to move away in 1988 and we drifted apart because of distance and a few other reasons. W says now that looking back that even though she loved me she wondered if she could trust me in the long run.  

We did get back together in time to celebrate her graduation in 1989, but our time was short lived since her teaching practice was overseas.  I did manage one trip to see her during that period, and we committed ourselves again then, deeper than before.  When W returned she moved in with me and found a job teaching but in pre-school, not grade school as she really wanted.  That caused some friction since she was having to choose between being with me and doing what she loved. 

In 1990 my father died suddenly at the age of 57, removing one of my major props when I was 31 years old. A few months after that W decided that she had to leave me for various reasons, most obvious was to pursue her career objectives, but there were other underlying  issues that she choose not to share with me. I was stuck sort of as the LBS even though we were not married, we had been living as if we were.  The obvious question that one asks, why not married?  There was never a good time of stability in our R, or maybe too many things we could both us as excuses not to commit.  When she left I was as helpful as I could be, but she made it clear that for the time being we were apart.  I did well with the GAL tactic, although I did not know it at the time.  Had a couple of PAs during that period, but as she made it clear we were apart I thought nothing of it. For all I knew she was doing the same. 

Over Christmas 1990 I made an extended trip back to Europe and called her just to pass along seasonal greetings, but ended up talking for 2 hours (expensive in those days!) leading to our R being rekindled.  When I returned stateside we met up and had several wonderful romantic weekends and things started moving along nicely.  But then another bombshell, I was laid off from my job which again put our future on ice. I was enrolled in a part time Masters program at the time so I converted to a full time student to get it finished.  Graduated in May of 1991, she was with me during that time, and soon after I sold my condo, packed my stuff in a u-haul, and moved in to her small apartment. We spent the summer traveling across country visiting friends and learning more about each other, good and bad bits. 

When the summer ended she went back to work, and I started the job search.  Remember, this was recession time (not like this most previous one) so jobs for a non-citizen were few and far between. Eventually I landed something in 1992, but needed to relocate again, and once the school year ended she moved to be with me.  This was the start of us being at least physically in the same space until very recently at least, about 20 years!  That December we bought a house together and once we moved in, started talking about marriage again.  However, she started at least an EA, her job had her traveling and there was this other guy, he would call the house late in the evening and she would talk with him about "work" for way too long.  This rocked my boat too and I embarked on an EA of my own.  We were in coupes therapy at the time, but it was not of much use since neither of us seemed to understand the process or why we were doing it.  Just before her 30th birthday we both came to our senses and reconciled, which lead to use getting married the following March in a courtroom on a small Caribbean island. We decided on a small wedding for ourselves since our families were so distant physically it seemed impossible to find a venue that would work.  She also changed jobs getting away from the EA, and the source of my EA left for another job, and soon after that I found new employment. 

Our S was born in October of 1996, and things were great.  We had a kid who slept through the night well, W was working at something she loved, and I was enjoying my job.  S was in day care during the week, and we enjoyed the family dynamic, our friends and our love was strong.  We were enough!  

In 1997 the bank I was working for got swallowed up in one of those banking consolidations that were common then, and ultimately that meant my position was eliminated. We weathered that storm; W had health insurance and I was able to fall back on my network and outside interests to run my own business for a few years, something I always wanted to do, but not for my entire life. Also I used connections to get some consulting work, but it was never going to be lucrative enough long term.  In early 2000 W was pregnant again and said she wanted to stop working when our child was born, so it was up to me to, as she put it, to get a "grown up job" again.  Managed that in February of 2001, with the employer I am still with today.  We also moved house in the summer of 2000, while W was pregnant. 

W will tell that things started to go wrong for her after our D was born.  The story she tells is that she came home from the hospital and I immediately asked her what was for dinner.  Actually as I remember it I asked her what she would like for dinner, but I am past worrying about being right about those things, and she will not change her mind on that one anyway.  Our D had some health issues in the first 5+/- years which was hard on my W. Also she had quit work, a source of adult validation and affirmation, leaving her alone during the day with a kid in pre-school, one clingy toddler, and not much in the way of family support. Our D really wanted nothing to do with me during that period, so I was not really able to lighten the load much. Job changes internally kept me pressured so I was getting it from both sides.  

We moved again in 2004, to a larger house in the suburbs (we were always city dwellers before) both of us thinking that this would solve the problems that were starting to surface between us.  SL waned, she was always tired and with two kids scheduling time for just us two became hard, then we just stopped trying since all our efforts went into kids stuff (cub scouts, soccer, brownies etc.). I am also to blame, around this time she became more critical and complaining, I started to withdraw into things I felt competent doing, one of which was NOT being emotionally open, available and vulnerable.  My efforts became more about being a good provider, and an active involved father, I was not a perfect husband. 

Time moved on.  We had the perfunctory family vacations, birthdays and Christmas celebrations, but I was always wondering where my soul mate was. W felt the same but we could not talk about it.  She started sending me notes that were scathing and basically stating that something had to change.  I would step up with household chores for a few months, but over time the same patterns would resurface.  We stumbled through a few years like this, and I guess the resentment started to grow in her.  She would spend more and more time with her friends, and her emotional energy was reserved for the kids then her friends, none for me, which I started to resent.  

In 2010 two important things happened.  First, her old boss finally persuaded her to come back to work.  This had been going on for a few years, and I told her that the kids were old enough and yes, she should consider it.  So she agreed to start again in the fall of 2010. In June we had a huge row, during which she told me she was done.  I tried to understand what she meant by this, being a man and looking for the action behind the words, but nothing was forthcoming. The row followed an incident where I was pretty rude and disrespectful of two friends without any justification.  For the next few months I upped my game in the household chores department, and everything seemed to be fine, but I now know she was content because the exit strategy was being formed. 

This is a long post. I will add another that details the last 12 months and where we are now.  Thanks for reading! 

M 53, W 48
T 25, M 18
S 15, D 11
"I'me done!" 6/13/2010
Exit started 8/21/2011 ILYBNILWY
W consults with L 9/2011, no papers filed
Separated 1/16/2012


M 53, W 48
T 25, M 18
S 15, D 11
"I'me done!" 6/13/2010
Exit started 8/21/2011 ILYBNILWY
W consults with L 9/2011, no papers filed
Separated 1/16/2012
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 77
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UKVA Offline OP
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 77
Where are we now

In August of 2011 my W's 30 year high school reunion was scheduled. I will keep the location out of this but it involved a 5 am drop off at the airport which of course I dutifully obliged. No big deal for me, I am an early riser anyway. She had reconnected with some of her classmates via FB during the months prior, and had discovered that one girl lived locally so they arranged to travel together. I took vacation to spend time with the kids, and we kept up with W via phone and texts, and by all accounts she was having a great time. Of course, I did not know how good then, and will probably never really get the truth. When the kids and I picked her up from the airport 4 days later she exited with this other girl who looked at me like I was something that got stuck to her shoe while walking across a farmyard. I put it down to travel fatigue and really paid it no attention. W seemed distant as we drove home but I put it down again to fatigue. Over the next few days she shared her adventures and showed me the pictures taken. My impression was a group of middle aged people pretending to be high schoolers again, but I do not judge. W also shared with me how epidemic big D was with this group.

About 3 weeks later I went to work on our computer, we were selling kids DVDs on e-bay, when I saw a FB message string between W and some guy from the reunion that looked like a tennis match of "I love you, no, I love you" back and forth for about 12 exchanges. We all know that sinking feeling, but added to that was the fact that my kids use this computer all the time. Thank heaven I saw it first. I closed it down and went to find W. When confronted she did not deny (how could she?) but said it was just words, so I guess that made it alright then? When I pushed her on it the floodgates opened and she basically told me her time thinking in the hotel room told her that something seriously needed to change, and she thought we were done (that phrase again!). I offered that we should try couples therapy, and she readily agreed, which I took as her wanting to work on the R, silly me! For me, I did what my professional training called for, get data, analyze then formulate a solution. The therapist suggested Sue Johnson's book Hold Me Tight, which I went right out and bought, hoping W would want to read along with me, again, silly me!

About this time someone recommended DR and MWD. I bought the book and read it in one weekend. It made so much sense to me, as an action oriented male. I regret now that I continued with traditional therapy and did not start with coaching right away. Even though I have read maybe a dozen books since, and have grown considerably from them, I go back to DR all the time.

After a couple of months of therapy W announced that she did not want to share a bed with me anymore, so I moved into the spare room. I was getting what sleep I could grab on the couch anyway, so it was mainly symbolic. I wanted everything to seem normal for the kids, but W did not see things that way, and made it obvious what was happening. Then she decided the kids needed therapy because of the tension in the home (which only she could feel) and guess who had to tell them. About a month after that W announced that she wanted a separation. Both of these bombshells were dropped in our couples therapy, a place I thought was supposed to be about working for a reconciliation. Again, I had to be the one to tell the kids, she just sat there silent, this was New Years Eve, 2011. Happy New Year!

In the middle of January we started the nesting separation, one week in the house with the kids, one week in a shared apt. I agreed to do this with the implicit understanding that we were to spend the time apart working on ourselves to the benefit of our R. I drew up separation guidelines that detailed how finances, kids, etc. were to be managed. We needed them, she could not do it.

Two weeks ago she had her reunion friends in town and spent time with them instead of the kids. In our next couples therapy session she inadvertently blurted out that she was not coming back, ever. It was not hard to imagine her friends standing on a chair, pumping the fist and shouting "you go girl". I am sure they think very poorly of me, probably that I am a complete jerk. I don't expect objectivity when you only hear one side of the story. She tried to retract the statement, claiming she did not mean to say it, but it was out.

So where are we now? I have started coaching through the DB web site. I continue my reading to discover what went wrong, how it could easily be saved, and how to avoid the same thing happening again. Just finished the 5 Languages. There are close friends, both male and female, who support me and keep me sane. I see my kids most everyday, and it is for them that I keep working for my marriage, them and my W and I. Through my work I am covered for IC and I start that soon. One of my passions is cycling, and I am immersing myself in that very supportive community. Luckily I have a very understanding boss who knows what is going on and gives me freedom to work flexibly just as long as stuff gets done. So the GAL tactic is under control. But truth be known, I have made some mistakes in the LRT (Valentines Day, wedding anniversary on 3/30) which I would not have had I started coaching earlier.

And my wife? She fits the mold of the WAW to a tee. Friends have commented how angry she is at everything, but mostly at me, and not just things that are my fault. And I am not surprised, if she lets go of the anger then what excuse does she have for all the pain she is causing. I know that I have made mistakes and have not been a perfect husband, but she refuses to see her part in any of this, and while she claims to be done with the blame game, she is not. I am giving her the space she needs and I am patient, willing to go as far as going to Boulder for a 2 day personal intensive. Question is, how do you make someone who is hard hearted and determined NOT to work on the marriage to even consider some of the obvious choices she could make to bring us back together. In the last therapy session she admitted that process was just about her getting enough backbone to "ask for what she wanted", so really not making the marriage the client.

Last week in an e-mail she said we had things to discuss, and suggested either a public place or a return to our couples therapist, but I responded that since I did not know what we would discuss, I could not decide on a venue. And left it at that. My plan is to buy as much time as I can to let the LRT work.

Any feedback or advice welcome.


M 53, W 48
T 25, M 18
S 15, D 11
"I'me done!" 6/13/2010
Exit started 8/21/2011 ILYBNILWY
W consults with L 9/2011, no papers filed
Separated 1/16/2012
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 77
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UKVA Offline OP
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Quick update. Had second DB phone coaching with Cheryl last night. I can highly recommend. I am now so focused on my short and long term goals it makes the baby steps really easy. If anyone out there can see parallels to something they are going through, please, any advice or feedback would be a gift. This is such a supportive group dedicated to a noble cause. Having read other chains I know I am not alone and should never give up hope.

Thanks


M 53, W 48
T 25, M 18
S 15, D 11
"I'me done!" 6/13/2010
Exit started 8/21/2011 ILYBNILWY
W consults with L 9/2011, no papers filed
Separated 1/16/2012
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 4,866
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Hi UKVA and welcome to the DB forum.

Your posts are lengthy and will take some time to read through. So from this point, a great "strategy" for this board and to get advice is to make shorter posts a little more often. It will help engage other members and they will offer support and DB suggestions.

Best advice right now is, no matter what you think right now, things will get better for you. One foot in front of the other and do the DB work to improve yourself so you become a person that only a fool would leave.

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Kaffe

Thanks. I did post something shorter late yesterday in reference to my DB phone coaching. Working hard on myself through IC, reading and making sure to follow 37 rules and be the 4 Cs. I have some W encounters coming up that require thinking through and I will post about them later.

Thanks again.


M 53, W 48
T 25, M 18
S 15, D 11
"I'me done!" 6/13/2010
Exit started 8/21/2011 ILYBNILWY
W consults with L 9/2011, no papers filed
Separated 1/16/2012
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 77
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UKVA Offline OP
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Posts: 77
For those who have read so far, thanks. I now have a more immediate issue that requires a DB tactic. My W and I are “nesting” during our separation (one week in house with kids, one week in shared apt) which means when I am out of the home kids see me very briefly first thing when I pick up my daughter for her school car pool. School is ending soon, so that will not be required anymore. Added to that, my W is a teacher so will be off for the entire summer. As things stand right now once summer starts I would not see the kids AT ALL every other week, whereas my W will have access to them every day since she will be off work. I have consulted with kid’s therapist and my IC both of whom say that situation is unacceptable to the kids. My W, in her defense, has asked me what we are going to do about the summer. I am going to ask her to give up the nesting and allow me to stay in the house full time which she may not like very much but the only other alternative is for us both to be in the house, not a good idea right now. So my question is, when thinking this through from a DB perspective, how and when do I make this proposal? One thought I had was just to ask her to come up with a solution, since me coming up with answers is our norm and not very 180 of me. Should we meet face to face to discuss this, which would require me to exhibit the 4 Cs, or could this be done via e-mail? I was going to give her 2 weeks notice of this, which would be June 3, to allow her to either agree or come up with an alternative,. Or should I do it earlier?
Any advice or feedback would be very welcome.


M 53, W 48
T 25, M 18
S 15, D 11
"I'me done!" 6/13/2010
Exit started 8/21/2011 ILYBNILWY
W consults with L 9/2011, no papers filed
Separated 1/16/2012
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 77
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UKVA Offline OP
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Posts: 77
Update. Next week see W for 1st time in 4 weeks. Daughter has Girl Scout event we both have to attend. Will practice 4 Cs. I have backed way off helping her with scheduling screw ups she has with kids. She is an adult, use a calendar. Getting so much stronger with friends, coaching, reading, goal setting & working on myself. Think I will blow her away next week. Also will be telling her to leave the house for the summer on 5/25, so need strength that day. She will ask what happens after the summer, I will shrug my shoulders & say I don't know. But I will expect her to be out by 6/17, Father's Day.


M 53, W 48
T 25, M 18
S 15, D 11
"I'me done!" 6/13/2010
Exit started 8/21/2011 ILYBNILWY
W consults with L 9/2011, no papers filed
Separated 1/16/2012
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 77
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UKVA Offline OP
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Maybe 6 weeks or so ago my e-mails to my W would be long and full of superfluous information, thinking that I was maintaining good communication. Recently I learned to edit down to the bare minimum, and guess what, now my W's messages are becoming longer. I am trained to notice what she needs to communicate and what she wants to communicate. Question is, does this constitute reaching?


M 53, W 48
T 25, M 18
S 15, D 11
"I'me done!" 6/13/2010
Exit started 8/21/2011 ILYBNILWY
W consults with L 9/2011, no papers filed
Separated 1/16/2012
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 77
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UKVA Offline OP
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Goal setting.

Short term goals are 1) stop all talk of divorce, buy some time 2) I will be communicating in her love language and she will notice 3) be successful at the May 16 & 29 events when W & I must meet (4 Cs)

Long term goals are 1) get W to Boulder in August for 2 day PI with MWD 2) have W make the choice to try again to come back to a new relationship. 

Comments?


M 53, W 48
T 25, M 18
S 15, D 11
"I'me done!" 6/13/2010
Exit started 8/21/2011 ILYBNILWY
W consults with L 9/2011, no papers filed
Separated 1/16/2012
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 77
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UKVA Offline OP
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 77
Can you detach too much? After the last few days, great socially and work wise, I wonder now if a reconciliation would be the best thing. For the kids, yes, and if my W decided that she had things to work on I think it could be great. But right now I have options for the first time in months, and I am not sure I want to give them up. Not for what we had. Must be what is meant by divorcing the old marriage and getting a new better one.

Tomorrow night first time in 30 days WAW and I have to meet, D's Girl Scout event. I take D, W will be late (another of her schedule screw ups). I wonder what will happen?


M 53, W 48
T 25, M 18
S 15, D 11
"I'me done!" 6/13/2010
Exit started 8/21/2011 ILYBNILWY
W consults with L 9/2011, no papers filed
Separated 1/16/2012
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