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Hang in there, Navy....sending prayers your way, buddy.


M37, S5
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Navyguy Offline OP
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Starsky/GB:

I have tried implementing your suggestions, but am having a tough time doing so - mostly because there really isn't any opportunities to do so. W doesn't "go into a rage" very often - seems to be only when I initiate a R discussion. As 25 said before, this really seems to be more of a "cold war". I have tried going out for a bit after work a couple times, but that hasn't seem to have had any effect.

Anyways, here's what's happened lately:

W seems to be going deeper into her depression (and probably pulling me down with her). I am hanging in there, but things are definitely getting harder...not easier.

W has told me that she hates school and needs a break from it, so she plans to take the summer off from school. I found this interesting because a year ago she was miserable because she "didn't have anything to focus on" - now the pendulum has swung the other way.

W's drinking seems to be increasing. I have noticed quite regularly (3-4 days/week) that she smells like booze when I get home from work lately. She has been buying handles of Rum and going through them herself in about 1 week. I am getting really concerned about this and it has made me reconsider what happened the night of the "wine bottle incident" a couple months ago. I almost think that W did want me to tell her she has a problem. I dunno. Anyways, I'm starting to get very concerned about her drinking - it is becoming daily binge drinking - aka alcoholism.

As I posted, yesterday was our 8th anniversary. I went back and forth numerous times about whether to do anything or not or to even acknowledge it or not. I decided I'd give W a gift.

I know the following goes against the DB principles, but I think I'm to the point where I had to try something different. For the newbies out there - the below is not a good example of what to do when dealing with a WAS - but my situation is pretty extreme at this point.

A couple months ago, when I thought things were on the right track I booked us a family vacation to the Carribean for October, with the intent of "giving" it to W on our anniversary. I really debated doing so, but at the last minute (about 5 pm yesterday) I decided to go ahead and do it. On the way home I picked up a white cotton beach cover-up for W (8th anniversary gift is linen) and a card and I put a brochure for the place in the Carribean in the card.

When I got home, W had again already had something to drink. D6 stayed home sick yesterday and W had spent about 3 hours at the doctor's office with her. Things were pretty "normal" but there was definitely a tension in the air - like we both knew it was our anniversary but neither of us wanted to say anything. I waited until after the kids went to bed to give W her gift.

I handed her the box and said "Happy Anniversary", she replied "thanks". Then she opened it. She looked at the cover-up and again just said "thanks". Then she opened the card and read it and saw the vacation - I could tell she was getting upset, but I didn't say anything. She also didn't say anything. She went outside to smoke and when she came back in it was obvious she had been crying. Again, I said nothing...I was not going to be baited into a fight on my anniversary. After a bit I was convinced that she wasn't going to talk to me, so I told her I was going to bed, and I did.

She stayed up for quite awhile - I ended up sending her a text: "I hope you are ok. I didn't want to upset you...I didn't know what to do about today...I just couldn't bring myself to ignore it. I don't know. Anyways, good night, and if you want to talk I'm here to listen".

W did not respond, nor did I talk to her before leaving for work this morning.

I am afraid that I am getting to the point where I am really questioning why I am doing this and why (if?) I still love her.

I think she has shown me how she feels over and over and over - and that she's not open to changing her feelings.

We'll see how things go the next couple days. I am going to Chicago this weekend to see my cousin graduate from boot camp.


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Whoo boy. Where's that "face palm" emoticon, anyway???

Navy, you are what, THREE YEARS into this now? And you're still operating based on your EMOTIONS and FEELINGS, instead of what you intellectually KNOW (and have learned) are the things to do (and not do).


Quote:
I know the following goes against the DB principles, but I think I'm to the point where I had to try something different.



Honestly, I don't see anything "different" about what you did. Can you HONESTLY say that this was part of something you THOUGHT OUT, maybe got some wise outside counsel on, and then decided to do it as part of your overall plan? Or did you do it because you FELT like it, out of maybe some combination of wanting to make her feel guilty about what she was doing and maybe come running back to you?


C'mon, man . . . I call bullchit on this one. cool


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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I'll put it another way:

Line up ten of the wisest posters you know on this forum, of all stripes -- male, female, "hard", "soft," former WAW former BH, etc. Imagine you polled them about whether or not you should give your wife such a gift.

What do you suppose the "vote" would have been?

I'm not saying there's not a time for you to carefully weigh everyone's advise, and then do what YOU feel you need to do, based on your own morals, ethics and knowledge of the situation. That's certainly appropriate. But I don't think that's what this was, do you?


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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yeah, I'd be concerned about 10oz/day avg. alcohol consumption.

She's certainly "at risk"... hopefully this is just a momentary point of "self medicating" for her... hopefully she will seek help for what is certainly depression that is showing up with the alcohol consumption...

You can mention it to her or others if you are concerned... but I think you know... there's nothing you can do about it...

Wishing you and your kids the best through this...

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Originally Posted By: Starsky309
Whoo boy. Where's that "face palm" emoticon, anyway???

Navy, you are what, THREE YEARS into this now? And you're still operating based on your EMOTIONS and FEELINGS, instead of what you intellectually KNOW (and have learned) are the things to do (and not do).


Quote:
I know the following goes against the DB principles, but I think I'm to the point where I had to try something different.



Honestly, I don't see anything "different" about what you did. Can you HONESTLY say that this was part of something you THOUGHT OUT, maybe got some wise outside counsel on, and then decided to do it as part of your overall plan? Or did you do it because you FELT like it, out of maybe some combination of wanting to make her feel guilty about what she was doing and maybe come running back to you?


C'mon, man . . . I call bullchit on this one. cool


Starsky


Well, I had a feeling this was coming, and I am glad it did.

I honestly don't know what I'm operating on right now. What I know to be the right and wrong things to do and doing/not doing them hasn't seemed to help my sitch.

Did I get unbiased counsel on the gift? No, I didn't. I talked with a few friends (not familiar with DB principles) that thought it was a wonderful idea. I think 10 out of the 10 old-timers would have told me not to give the gift. I probably do deserve to be smacked for that.

But I will say I didn't do it to try to make her feel guilty (which I think is why she was crying) or come running back (which she certainly didn't).

I did it for 2 reasons (both of which I admit were probably driven by feelings more than thought, but also were about me taking charge of my life):

1) It has been 5 years since W and I actually celebrated an anniversary. For our 4th and 5th anniversaries I was deployed, 6th we went out but W drank a lot and got sick, 7th was right after W came back last year and we didn't do anything, and now the 8th. I am tired of not being able to celebrate my anniversary with my W and having to worry about exactly how she's going to react to whatever things I do or gifts I give her. I know someone could call me selfish for thinking this - I put my feelings before hers - I understood that and I consciously made that decision, because I am tired of constraining my love. It has gotten me nowhere. This trip is something I wanted to do for my family (the trip is for all 4 of us), and is long overdue. I am sick of having to hold back, and I am sick of walking on eggshells, and I am sick of this facade we call a family.

2) My M has been stuck in this rut and it only seems to be getting deeper. No secret there. Whichever direction this thing goes, I know I will end up ok, and I will make sure my kids end up ok. But it's gotta start moving...we're not doing anyone any favors by living like this. Maybe this will lead to me having the opportunity to "let W free" like GB talks about...I'm certainly not getting the opportunity in the limited routine interactions we've had lately.

That is my no-BS response. If it's crap, I'm more than willing to be slapped again.


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ILYBINILY: June 09
Unofficially Separated (long distance): 1/2/11
W came home: 3/17/11
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I'm going to go against the grain and say that there was nothing wrong with the present. With your W drinking there is something going on and it ain't the marriage. Your text to her was perfect. You didn't intrude, you left the door open if she wanted to talk, and most importantly, you gave her the choice.

Sure you were disappointed, but the fact that you were able to do that shows how much you've grown.

Withholding the R talks is good. Don't push them.


M-43 W-40
2D - 9 and 5

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet a new life.

RECONCILED AND WISER
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Originally Posted By: Navyguy
I know someone could call me selfish for thinking this - I put my feelings before hers - I understood that and I consciously made that decision, because I am tired of constraining my love. It has gotten me nowhere. This trip is something I wanted to do for my family (the trip is for all 4 of us), and is long overdue. I am sick of having to hold back, and I am sick of walking on eggshells, and I am sick of this facade we call a family.

2) My M has been stuck in this rut and it only seems to be getting deeper. No secret there. Whichever direction this thing goes, I know I will end up ok, and I will make sure my kids end up ok. But it's gotta start moving...we're not doing anyone any favors by living like this. Maybe this will lead to me having the opportunity to "let W free" like GB talks about...I'm certainly not getting the opportunity in the limited routine interactions we've had lately.

That is my no-BS response. If it's crap, I'm more than willing to be slapped again.



Actually? I liked your answer. It's GENUINE, and it's DECISIVE.

No 2x4s from me. Still not sure I would have done it, but I do see what your rationale for it is, and I respect your defense of your decision.


Starsky


M57 W 57; D30 D28 S24 S20 GD7 GD2 GD1 GD5m GD1m
BD 5/07; W's affair 5/07-8/07

At the end of every hard-earned day, people gotta find some reason to believe. (Bruce Springsteen)
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Originally Posted By: Starsky309
I'll put it another way:

Line up ten of the wisest posters you know on this forum, of all stripes -- male, female, "hard", "soft," former WAW former BH, etc. Imagine you polled them about whether or not you should give your wife such a gift.

What do you suppose the "vote" would have been?


A gift...of LUGGAGE to pack and leave with....

more later... Sorry Navy I'll post more later but it's a rare day when I think Starsky and GB are being TOO laid back....But that's today! Enough already.


. mad




Starsky


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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okay I calmed down a bit....

your text was perfect. Can you still go on the cruise but without her? I'm serious. Not to punish but to show your kids you can have fun without her. You have a sibling?

Your w is doing a good job of losing custody w/the booze, but if you know she's drinking while she's with the kids

and you leave them with her for long, then you can't suddenly raise the issue when it's time to talk custody. Either she's fit or she's not.

I would, and i mean this NOT punitively but to improve your life and move forward

at least consider


leaving her & taking the kids...you're already doing the childcare and housework and paying the bills.

Why let her mismanage the child support or worse,hurt the kids with her self medicated approach to long standing depression?

I'm NOT saying she's going to hurt them. But she is a lot like the women who do...sorry Navy. Truly...

The drinking would be my last straw...


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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