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Denver/Navy

Just my quick uptake okay, so of course I could be way off...but in Navy's situation he's NOT done many bad things. Maybe I missed something in Navy's past, but if I recall it right,

We're talking Navy's "failures" as "too much computer" and 'Not enough help at home or w/the kids"..... which ended I think 3 YEARS ago... Denver, no offense buddy, but Navy doesn't have a lot of blemishes on his h record...

Since Navy's wife has gone inward, she decided Navy's to blame or SEEMS TO be, for "abuse" she got as a kid, or thinks she got. Every bad thing done by MEN TO HER, or as she sees it, is somehow combined in one pile and Navy is the scapegoat for it....as well as

anything else unfair in her life, which she says she hates.. b/c her life sukks" etc/

when I read comments like that, from a mother with healthy children, I know it's not Navy...it's her...


She Lumps it all in together placing Navy in a real SOB/jerk's position,

in the "all men are alike AND are abusive or exploitive" and it's patently unfair to him.

She's made NO progress toward forgiving or letting go.

She actively seeks out validation for her anger even now....So I fear that even if he totally changed, imo, she is not interested...


and Denver, she didn't say any of the positive loving things your w has said, when there was some positive movement in your sitch. Navy's wife has offered, at best, to co-parent under one roof

AND to be miserable while she's at it AND

to treat him like crap too...so i don't see how it's a decent deal even for the kids, let alone Navy...(or his wife for that matter.

She sounds terribly miserable, but is like someone circling the drain and taking those near her, down with her.)

Those are big differences between the situations to me.

But I know you both have been in limbo for a long time. And that does sukk. And you have both dug deep and made REAL changes in yourselves as men and partners. Someday a woman will find you, and feel blessed.

Originally Posted By: bustorama
NavyGuy,

Starting to read through your threads again.

I know you are getting tired from the (apparent) lack of progress, but stop trying to talk her out of her feelings/convince her that she should not resent you.

Let her resent you all she wants. The issue is whether or not you allow yourself to be subjected to acts of resentment. That's your choice.


DITTO to THIS^^^Navy


If she is to stop resenting you and choose to get over her hurt (or come to you saying she wants to work with you on getting over her hurt), it will have to come from her.

If you are getting tired of her resenting you, the solution is not to tell her to stop resenting you or that she should have stopped resenting you by now. Telling her what she should be feeling or doing "by now" is a sure way to get her to keep resenting you.



I've been on Navy's thread a long time. This is an extreme case. I have seen no movement from her towards him in a real way.

All I recall is that she's blaming him for ALL her own issues and making no effort to work on them so she is voluntarily stuck and wants no one else to move forward either, I guess...

So they've been in limbo for YEARS now.. is it 3 years now? And Navy's pulling all his weight at work and at home and getting nothing back...

and the longer they are married the more benefits she accrues along with a higher % of his pension...not that it's the reason she's still there b/c she also has nowhere else to go...but I think she's biding her time.

And I think he's wasting his, albeit in an honorable effort for his kids.

Navy, what do you think your children see, when they see your m?


Would it be the worst thing in the world for them to see change? You making a choice to be happy anyway you can and that means without her, PROBABLY...

What if you found someone down the road, who loved & respected you and treated your kids like her own? And loved you well - so they could see that?

Those women exist Navy...

for the past 3 years your w has not been one of them.

Honestly Navy, with things as they have been for years now, I don't see your marriage substantively improving, do you?

What will it take for you to change this? Since she is fine being stuck in misery

she won't make a move to improve things. She would have by now and she hasn't.

I can only hope/pray that she might move towards you IF she feared losing you
, maybe to some OW who would see you AND your kids in a loving way, and replace your w as the source of nurturing in the family...

b/c for awhile now, your w has been pretty self centered, and miserable oftenat least when you describe her...

So maybe that's what it would take for her to get off her butt and be in charge of her own life/happiness

and END the longest marital BLAME GAME I've seen in a long time...fearing the loss of you to OW....

IF you have one more round in you for DBing, that's all I can offer you. Fake Date or something...

if she confronts about it, you can "hypothecate" that in the event you were to date,

you want to reassure her that you'd "never have the kids meet OW... unless it was serious"


You are empowered in this, as much as you choose to be. Seriously.


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
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No offense 25. I know. I also agree with everything that you just said. Navy's in a very tough spot right now.

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

I can only hope/pray that she might move towards you IF she feared losing you[/b], maybe to some OW who would see you AND your kids in a loving way, and replace your w as the source of nurturing in the family...

b/c for awhile now, your w has been pretty self centered, and miserable oftenat least when you describe her...

So maybe that's what it would take for her to get off her butt and be in charge of her own life/happiness

and END the longest marital BLAME GAME I've seen in a long time...fearing the loss of you to OW....

IF you have one more round in you for DBing, that's all I can offer you. Fake Date or something...

if she confronts about it, you can "hypothecate" that in the event you were to date,

you want to reassure her that you'd "never have the kids meet OW... unless it was serious"


That's where my money would be. Be ready for A LOT more yelling from you W though Navy. Mine blew me up in August for this! wink But it wasn't more than a month afterwards before she was telling me that she hadn't given up on our M. So I actually think that what I did had a huge positive effect even if it was a bit misguided.


M 43
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W moves out of home 11/2010
Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012
I request divorce 5/2012
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All
Let's not forget that Navy is active duty, and a flag officers aid. Any suggestion of an OW would definitely hurt his career. His boss may relieve him of his duty as soon as any hint of impropriety arises.

On the other hand....

I think navy needs to cultivate the skills and looks to be able to pull other women. Dress better, work more on specific muscle groups, be more charming and comfortably talk to other women by yourself and around W. Make her aware that you have the skills to snag an OW, but don't let her have an inch to stand on with allegations.

In my case it took buckling down and completely opening the door for my W to come around. W almost walked out a couple of times too. Each time I let her, it was gut wrenching, but W needed to feel she was with me out of choice not because I somehow co-opted her into it.

I recommend a mature game of tit for tat. If she's nice, be nice if she's cruel, then call her out and create distance. Notice I call it mature since you shouldn't do childish things like screaming or playing silly accusation games. Just tell her you disagree and walk away.

I really think you only stand to gain from playing hard ball with her. At worse she'll walk (which I think some of us here think that's not necessarily bad). At best she'll maybe snap out of it. Call her bluff. Really do it.

It's leadership 101 people hate to be forced into anything, so don't force her to stay.

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After reading DB for emergency care in my marriage this article is probably the second most helpful thing I read. I think it may help out.

http://www.marriedmansexlife.com/2010/10/why-and-how-nice-guys-strategize-to.html?m=0

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I read that article GB...

it's sad to me if this is how it is with other couples,

b/c when my h plays the "nice card" I give you my word

I feel more loving to him and i get on board with it.

It's his temper that worsens things when I'm not up to my game. But when I am, and when I DB in the face of his temper, it usually ends up lowering the temperature in him too.

So the love is met with love, not taking advantage of. THis article seems like a lot of measuring would happen and that's not so cool to me.

Also my gut says somehow in the article, "nice" reads as weak. Am I off there?

JMO.

also, I seriously doubt the idea of Navy dating would hurt his career at all. I told him a remark he could make to his wife...there are subtle ways he can get the point across without risking a charge of adultery.


if his w freaked and called his boss to report supposed affairs, she would not be the first crazy w to call a boss with that complaint.

The commanders I dealt with tended to take their soldier's side of things unless violence was in the home. And most wives don't like hearing this but adultery is a very rare charge. There are almost always aggravating circumstances such as "in exchange for an honorable discharge", which was the only time I had an adultery client out of 300...fwiw.


Navy, the consistent theme here is what matters. She has to fear losing you, so whatever that means...figure it out.

YOu Realize she may say "fine, go!" AND if she does, then nothing you do will get her to come around, so you may as well learn that now...

to just get to the other side of this, that much faster and stop wasting time.

OTOH, you may have a reaction like Denver had...in time. To consider GB's remarks, sure, be discreet.

but you have to DO something NEW and DIFFERENT...in a big way

Sorry you are in this situation...
((( )))


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
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Hey Navy,

Thx for your recent update. I check in on the Board every couple of months to see what is going on. I am going on 2.5 years in my situation. My wife is not as angry as yours but does have the same lack of engagement. There is also OM lurking in the background.

25's advice is very interesting and is similar to what my friends are telling me. We deserve better, our kids deserve more and there is a better option out there. Like you, for some reason I just can't throw in the towel. Not sure if it is the fear of leaving her or the fear of what my kids future will be.

I would almost be glad if my wife came forth and asked for a divorce. It appears that neither one of us has the where with all to make this happen. She continues to have contact with OM and I have told her that if she wants to be with him, then go. Our last discussion on this was 3 months ago and she is still here.

Good luck with your situation. At some point both you and I need to take back control of our future and start putting what's left of our lives back together.

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Punchy

what do you think it would take for you to make the move?

If she still has contact w/OM, along with NO work on the marriage,

I have to wonder how much worse it would have to get before you'd act.

I don't mean to push you at ALL...but am hoping to help you clarify and maybe improve your situation...

If it were going to get better by "leaving it alone" and "not discussing it" then by now it would have resolved.

I find few, if any, conflicts like this just fade away...you have to resolve it Or it worsens.

If standing now means that your kids see you treated this way for that much longer and the end result is the same (she goes)
then
all you've done is hurt your legal case (probably owe her more for a longer marriage)

and exposed your kids to a lousy marital situation.

Do you have daughters seeing how your w treats a man? What are they learning about men? What would you tell them if they treated their h's the way your w is treating you?

Do you have sons who see the situation?

What would you tell your SON to do, & for how long, if he came to you with this very problem?


M: 57 H: 60
M: 35 yrs
S30,D28,D19
H off to Alaska 2006
Recon 7/07- 8/08
*2016*
X = "ALASKA 2.0"
GROUND HOG DAY
I File D 10/16
OW
DIV 2/26/2018
X marries OW 5/2016

= CLOSURE 4 ME
Embrace the Change
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Youre probably right about the charges not being common, they're usually involved when someone screams out rape, or if he dates a subordinate. I'm just saying Navy is a flag officers aide, he could go far, he shouldn't risk it IMHO.
YES believe me I do know a thing or two about crazy spouse calls. On the other hand I have seen commands fully support dating in cases where there is a legal separation in play. Most commands take into account how some states demand ridiculous long separation before divorce time, so will grant some leeway if the Soldier discloses this.

Personally I support walking away. The article does refer to nice as weak. Or rather guys who are soo nice that they walked all over. Sometimes you have to push back, otherwise you'll always get picked on. I think Navy needs to push back, of course in a mature adult way.

In my case standing strong on my boundaries and doing what he calls tit for tat in the article made my W respect me more, then respect led to affection, and we are better now than we were before. A couple of times when I held on she threatened to leave. I held steady and I believe it led to more respect on her part. (which if you remember she had none for me).

I certainly do agree he has nothing to lose and tons to win.

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re 25

For me to make the move, I just need to acknowledge and accept that it is over and there is no hope for a new relationship. Part of me is hoping that things will change based on the changes that I have made. She sees the OM at work as they have the same employer. He was putting pressure on her early in the New Year to make a decision and the fact that she still hasn't decided gives me some optimism that she sees value in staying where she is.

In terms of accepting that there is no chance for a new relationship with my wife, I am working towards giving myself a deadline of June 30. At that point, unless there is any improvement I will need to accept reality and move on. We can then use the summer to address things with the kids and allow my wife to find another place to live in advance of the new school year in the fall.

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Wow...thanks everyone. Lots for me to digest here (that is a good thing).

A couple quick things:

W is on her way to visit BFF in Ohio right now. She won't be back until Sunday, so I have 4 days to get a clear mind.

___________________

Kaffe & Karma - I agree that the liquid courage had a lot to do with her blow up and that she was setting me up with her comment about me and other H.

___________________

Denver - You are right...there is a lot of hurt there, whether it is all my fault or not. When I say I am not putting up with W, I mean that I point out that W and I have covered particular ground, that I have taken responsibility for your actions, apologized, and have taken steps to correct. I definitely know better than to invalidate her at this point...even if she is wrong, it's not going to do me any good to tell her that. The problem here is that I've been feeding into her victim mentality. By saying I wasn't as bad as other H, I was trying to draw a boundary on what I would and wouldn't be blamed for. You are correct that she probably took it as invalidation though.

That was the first time I've ever been the one to leave the bed. I honestly think that in this case it had the exact effect that everyone is telling me I need to create here. It made her fear that she had finally gone too far with me...and that is why she apologized the next morning. She has never apologized for getting upset with me in the past.

Awesome to hear you and W are making some real progress. I think we have both been at this about the same length of time...seems like we keep going back and forth as far as who has made the most progress. Must be that whole roller coaster thing at work.

______________

25 - thanks again for your posts and helping me and everyone else here. You rule. I think my biggest "crime", in my wife's eyes, was that I didn't listen to her when she was trying to tell me she was unhappy for quite a long time (as a result of the computer games and being out golfing/biking) She swears that she did...I think she definitely could have done a better job being clear with me...but it is what it is. I didn't catch on until she had a foot out the door. Typical WAW story from DB.

I know I'm not the problem at this point. I have had numerous friends of W and I ask (unsolicited) how things are going because they've heard things from other friends. I just say I'm hanging in there. Then they tell me what a great thing I'm doing and what a great guy I am.

______________

GB - the flag aide thing was only a temp gig for January. I'm back to my normal job now. I agree that I need to start pointing out when she's treating me like crap more often. The reason I don't is because when I have in the past, she gets upset and tells me she's tired of me making her feel like a jerk. Pretty sure she's beating herself up internally but doesn't want to admit it. Same thing for when she feels "judged". She's constantly judging herself and won't admit that to herself, so she blames me for her feeling judged.

I'm not sure about the whole Nice Guy philosophy. I've read that a couple times and while a lot of it definitely speaks to me, I'm not sure it would help me get what I want in my case.

______________

Anyways, I think I will give the fake date thing a shot. Tell W I'm going to grab a drink or something after work a few times over the next few weeks and see what happens. Can't hurt anything to try it.


BITS
M: 35
W: 35
T14, M11
D9, S6
ILYBINILY: June 09
Unofficially Separated (long distance): 1/2/11
W came home: 3/17/11
EE: July 2012
Dropped the rope: Oct 2012
Piecing: April 2013
Not piecing: April 2014
Stuck.
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