Thank you for the thoughtful reply, Busto. If I may ask, what did it take for your wife to thaw her heart over time? I may have already asked this - and I know that there is no "formula" to it. I am just curious as to what things help.
With regard to not be able to or not knowing how to have feelings again - isn't it often said that love is a choice? At some point would she have to actively choose to have feelings or at least remain available for them?
I am doing the best I can to be a good guy when I am around her. There have been fleeting moments when I have bouts of sadness in her presence - no tears or anything - but just kind of inwardly quiet. There are days when I am for sure acting "as if". I think I have done a much better job relative to the past listening and being more emotionally present when I have an opportunity to do so.
I think my feelings get hurt at times when she doesn't initiate much. When I have our S, she seems more willing to do so - but as I have said before - I never know if it is because she wants to see him, me or both of us. When SHE has him - she does not initiate much. Maybe this is a function of her clock being slower as you mentioned.
Honestly - should I ask her to do NOTHING? I know I seem transfixed on "getting it right" - but when you say relax and let life come to you, in a relaxed state I WANT to ask her to do things. Part of her complaints included the fact that we didn't DO much together (granted, we had been through 3 years of infertility $$$ and 16 months of being new parents). I feel as if I continue to not offer things up - then I am dropping the ball in a certain respect.
When I invited her to the comedy shoe last month - she initially accpeted - then cancelled because she thought I was treating it as a "date" and she didn't want the pressure - then said she regretting cancelling and decided to go. We had a really good time (as noted, she even held my arm as we left - that was the most affection I have recieved in 8 months - maybe it was the Ketel One?). So how do I approach activities with her? How did you handle it with your wife?
How do I show her that I care? That I am evolving and that I am committed even after the D without looking like I am pursuing?
Thank you for the thoughtful reply, Busto. If I may ask, what did it take for your wife to thaw her heart over time? I may have already asked this - and I know that there is no "formula" to it. I am just curious as to what things help.
I'm honestly not sure what were the critical things in my sitch. See, I completely stopped doing all the destructive things I had been doing in our R and started being attentive to her with words of affirmation, acts of service and giving. Taking care of myself, being fit, being active and GAL, reconnecting with friends and our kids. I did this consistently for awhile during regular contact with her (8 months?), but that didn't seem to change anything -- just slowed her march to divorce.
In my GAL, I also hung out with women and got flirted with and propositioned, so I regained confidence in myself and sort of re-learned how to flirt with women. I ended up flirting with my W at the same time that I ultimately rejected her and told her that I was moving on. Don't know if that self-confidence played a role.
I ultimately told her that I had had enough of the separation, and I accepted that she didn't want to be with me. I said I didn't want to be with her either since I wanted to be with someone who wanted to be with me. I told her I wanted NO CONTACT with her except for emergency stuff about kids to make it easier for me to move on. And I held to that (fairly well) for a few months. Then I told my W I was going to file for divorce, that it was time for me to move on legally.
It was during the months of No Contact and me initiating the push for divorce that things started to change for her (I was oblivious to all of this as I was busy with my own life, I certainly wasn't actively thawing her heart). She has told me since that she realized during that time how much she missed me, how important a part of her life I was to her, that I was her best friend and that she had lost me.
It may have been necessary for her to have seen evidence that I had changed and could treat her well before I pushed her and the separation away, I'm not sure. But, I honestly think what ULTIMATELY opened her heart back up to me was HER feeling that that she was losing me. And missing me and the things she loved about me. (along with the passage of years from the times that I had hurt her most).
Even when she first started to come back, I don't think she really trusted me yet. But the feeling of losing me outweighed her fear of being hurt enough so that she chose to love me and work on rebuilding trust, despite her residual hurt.
Your W is operating on her feelings. It is her own feelings and choices that might guide her to open her heart back to you. Not anything you do -- you aren't strong enough to open her heart. In my case, I think it was my W's feelings (her fear and experience of losing me from her life) that led her to re-open her heart to me.
Originally Posted By: Crimson
I think my feelings get hurt at times when she doesn't initiate much. When I have our S, she seems more willing to do so - but as I have said before - I never know if it is because she wants to see him, me or both of us. When SHE has him - she does not initiate much. Maybe this is a function of her clock being slower as you mentioned.
I remember this very well. It's painful to feel that way. Try not to do this to yourself -- to let yourself be in a situation where you feel like this.
Originally Posted By: Crimson
How do I show her that I care? That I am evolving and that I am committed even after the D without looking like I am pursuing?
You can't do anything to open her heart. You aren't strong enough to control her -- don't try. Live that way because it is the right way for you to live, not in order to manipulate her.
Me-53 W-49 D22,D18,D15 T-Since-12/2001 Married-9/2004 She Moved Out-5/28/2010 Piecing start-04/2011 Now-together Thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2079304
Thanks again, Busto. Given where I am right now, I don't know if saying "I am done" is the right move to make. As much as it hurts to say, that day may come - and perhaps even this moment I need to become a *bit* more scarce, but I don't know if I should do a total Houdini just yet.
I don't know how any of this is going to play out, but I am hoping that consistency in change will eventually help her open back up some. That, along with the staying consistent even after D. I have said this multiple times, but I think she honestly believes that I am going to wave the white flag and revert after divorce. And, based on other WAW feedback - it is a legitimate fear to have.
I do, however, see your point about giving her time to miss me. It's just so hard to do when there is a little one in the mix. I would fear that I would be coming off as a jerk. Not sure.
The road to hell is paved with both good intentions and LBSs.
So I had to drop my S off at w's condo today after I picked him up. She had asked me to bring a spare land line phone (I cancelled mine) because hers had stopped working. I brought it, set it up for her - no problem at all. Was happy to do it.
I am scheduled to have him this weekend beginning on Friday and return him to her the coming Tuesday. As I was standing in her kitchen, she said "I was hoping maybe I could see him this weekend." Which, to me, is always a good thing because it gives us a chance to spend time together as family - which I enjoy. So just as I was about to reply, she said "my sister and the guy she's dating are going up to Sedona (ironically, the site of our wedding) to celebrate her birthday and I was thinking we could go up an meet them for the day". Instantly, I was shocked - I looked at her and said "Do you mean all three of us or were you just referring to you and S?". Clearly I thought it was the former, since it was my Saturday with him. She snapped at me "I DON'T LIKE THE PRESSURE!!!".
I was taken aback a bit and told her that was not at ALL my intent - I was just trying to clarify. Honest to God, I was not trying to pressure whatsoever. In a huff, she just looked down and said "we can just talk about it later". I left feeling awful - I had NO intent of pressuring her...not an ounce! I was just asking to clarify. Clearly she was referring to taking my Saturday with him and driving up to Sedona to spend time with her sister and her boyfriend. I was thinking she meant the three of us and wanted clarification to be sure.
I feel like I walked out of there looking like a jerk - and I really don't think I did anything wrong. Granted, I guess she has a HIGH level of sensitivity to these things.
Now I would imagine the pending question is going to be can she have him all day on Saturday. Part of me wants to say "sure", to do the 180. And part of me wants to stand ground and say no. Keep in mind she booked her June vacation with him to include one of my custody days without even asking me.
If we are really working on things together, I mean REALLY trying - my capacity for flexibility is almost infinite. But if our M is not just a matter of the courts - and we LITERALLY have temporary court orders dictating our time with him - then we have to abide by it. I kind of feel as if she wants it both ways - to have a divorce, but to have unlimited flexibility in scheduling at my expense.
I feel trapped. Do one thing and you're a doormat. Do the other, and you have not changed at all....you're still the same....everything has to be your way.
Ugh. I pray that I do not have a lifetime of this ahead.
You know, GM, no - not since this whole rigmarole began have I asked her for a minute of her scheduled time with him. Based on the inflexibility I've received over holidays and even his birthday, I do not think such requests would be received well. TOTALLY speculative on my part - and I am kind of in a bad mood about what happened, so my objectivity in analysis is probably compromised a bit at the moment.
Thank you for validating. I didn't feel as though I did or said anything wrong. For sure nothing to warrant the quippy response that I received.
She has said that she is having a hard time dealing with anything outside of her normal routine right now, so I think even the slightest inference of stress that hits her radar is noticed. If it's something tied to me, it's a flaming arrow lodging itself in her living room wall.
The sad part it, I really have been sensitive to this ^^^^ in most everything I do.
I'm not sure my advice is worth much at all - I'm not having success in my own sitch yet!
But... it seems she's given you some interesting feedback on how she perceives your sitch - she feels enormously pressured and this seems to be related to what she perceives as pursuit on your part.
So, although hurtful (and wrong from your POV), this is what she feels.
Given that, and given that your goal is to show your changes, i'd say let her take him for the day. It's a special day (birthday) and probably wasn't planned in advance.
It shows that you are the bigger person, and can be flexible (this will pay off for you in the long run, too, I'd imagine).
And as you are not yet working from court-imposed visitation orders, no need to act as if you are.
I know it seems unfair and wrong to act like a doormat - but.... which action is likely to get you closer to your goal of showing consistent change?
Also, it means you get to see her when you drop off and pick up that day. Two more opportunities to show the new you.
You are in a really tough spot. I agree with Busto, you need to become unavailable. You keep thinking that if you are there for her she will have a change of heart but I'm telling you its not going to happen.
Don't let her make all the rules. Don't let her take your son on your day, she wouldn't let you do that.
I'm actually thinking maybe she is just being nice to you just to get through the divorce, I hope I'm wrong because I really want you to work it out.
I know you don't want to do this but I would try to make her jealous and hang out with other guys and women, throw a couple pic's on facebook having fun without her, she will see them and freak out.
What do you have to lose, she not there for you as a wife and what you have tried for the last 8 months hasn't changed her from stopping the divorce.
Shaky
M 42 W 41 S 10 D 7 M 15 Years T 20 Years Divorce busted
I kind of agree on the becoming less available. There are moments when I struggle to see if I my w is noticing changes or just realizing I am not really into fighting or arguing over things anymore.
However, I don't think that I could deliberately set forth sight the intent to make her jealous and wave my life in her face. If I GAL and she somehow gets drawn into it - so be it. But I don't think I could live my life for punitive reasons. That's probably more old me than who I'm striving to be now.
And though nothing I have done in the last 8 months has haulted the divorce things have gotten better. If there is to be a R, it will take a lot of small steps, but I can't revert back or into something I never was in the first place.
