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#2240312 - 04/24/12 01:39 AM Re: Unidentified MLC, phase 2 - can I get it right? [Re: Kimmerz]
TSquared2 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 2232
Loc: Rocky Mountains
lol, Thanks Kimmerz!

I did and am processing those feelings and trying to get used to an awkward sit...I have this fear of screwing up just as I am reaching my goal (and justified...I have seen me do it!)

Having been "dim" for so long and it's built in stress (and now a habit) I find I am unsure of how to proceed sometimes/a lot of times (stir the pot? stay back still? what's my intuition say? is my intuition wrong?, etc). When I know what I want, usually there is little to stop me from pursuing that which I want, except now...I DO KNOW...but my usual MO may not be useful, may even be counter productive, so there sits my sword of Damacales....

This whole in-house separation has been very awkward, and I am tired of awkward, yet to have any hope of R, I must continue to be in an awkward state...ugh...that doesn't come pleasantly for someone who likes some stability, some ability to plan long range, likes some predictability (but not too much...lol...that has been one of W's complementary poles of our R, her unpredictability, and, though she may not admit it presently due to MLC/whatever, I believe she actually appreciates these things about me, as long as I don't over do it.)

Attraction? Yes, time, and definitely trust, I agree with you. For me, I also am sure there is a "look", a facial expression, a vibe... that is intimately involved with me being attracted and able to "overlook" flaws...I thought I saw "it" last week a couple brief moments. But then she has her "alien MLC" facial expressions/vibe that are a total turn off.

I never thought of attraction being related to feeling safe, I thank you for that insight, it rings true...have to ruminate on that some more.... smile

I am pretty sure I am ready for the swim, awkwardness and all...and as I have read here so many times...you will KNOW it, when they are ready to walk the road home...and even if I am wrong, I can risk that swim for our kids...I was told recently that they know what I have done here, the example I have shown...so, yeah, I can do this. Funny how they pickup on things and really know what's going on...

Op Feral Cat status improving...

smile

T^2
_________________________
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus

Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm


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#2240315 - 04/24/12 01:58 AM Re: Unidentified MLC, phase 2 - can I get it right? [Re: TSquared2]
TSquared2 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 2232
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Oh, and I did do a couple of small pursuing things I guess...

I left a card, not too emotional/pursuing, thanking her for being a big influence in my life and that I wouldn't want it any other way (it took her a couple of days to find it...and I did check the trash and recycling...its not there...).

A couple of small vases of flowers from the yard have shown up without a word from me, or anyone...

The "old" me would have been sniffing about looking for recognition...the new me just does it because...I just do that.
_________________________
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus

Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm


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#2240329 - 04/24/12 07:46 AM Re: Unidentified MLC, phase 2 - can I get it right? [Re: TSquared2]
Kimmerz Offline
Member

Registered: 09/26/11
Posts: 831
Loc: West Coast
T^2,

I am absolutely amazed at your dedication and committment to your W, and Dbing. The patience you've shown is just amazing. You took this time to reflect upon yourself and make changes you wanted to and saw fit. And you've stuck to your plan. Well done!

I have to compliment your wife as well. She's not running, she's still there. She's still talking to you, and she's still communicating to you on her own accord. You know I look at you and how you handle this so beautifully and at first see that I could never do this because I don't have the patience. But then I realized that you have one BIG thing working in your favor, which many of us LBS don't. A spouse that didn't leave, is actually taking this time to reflect upon herself, and share it with you. And then you who has learned all you can about MLC and how to handle it.

Things are looking good!
_________________________
M=42 XH=44
M=18 T=21
D14 D11
Divorced 4/2012
XH marries OW 6/2014.

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#2240424 - 04/24/12 02:15 PM Re: Unidentified MLC, phase 2 - can I get it right? [Re: Kimmerz]
TSquared2 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 2232
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Thank you Kimmerz, I appreciate your compliments...!

As far as the "in-house" vs. physical separation...there are pros and cons to each, as I have learned here, such as this from snodderly:

Quote:
Like I mentioned earlier, it is difficult when your mlcer is around because you never know what is the right or wrong way to "handle" them.


She is exactly right on with this, it is a fine dance on a razor's edge, and emotionally tolling. But, the WAS has a chance to see the LBS changes daily, but then again the WAS doesn't get the reality bounce and/or smack of moving out, the pain of hurt kids, etc...

I did consider moving out late last fall and winter, and my IC suggested it (omg, those days were the worst, the spew, the hate from W, the pain of the kids, etc)and thanks to the posters here I realized that I wasn't going to leave our kids, our house, our bed...I didn't ask for this, I didn't want this, and I got my priorities straightened out and knew what I wanted...and the $ wasn't there anyway.

Come January I wanted to kick W out, I was "there". I was done. I even spent a week on a singles site (we all do this, don't we? My self-esteem needed some reality checking and re-assurance after the holidays with alien spew monster, and yes, I was totally up front about my sitch). There I kinda re-discovered that I am a good man (I knew this deep inside, but wanted/needed external validation), and there are women who would value me, especially with all the learning and changes I have done for myself. Funny thing is, they were all around my age or older...I guess one of my "requirements" in a new R is that they have been through menopause and also have been through their MLC, if any...I don't want to go through this again if possible, so that excluded the under 35 crowd. smile A self-discovery note: I found that I was capable of malice, as I took brief evil pleasure in the thought of asking W for her webcam for my use ...I didn't like this about me, and worked through it and never followed though, and killed my week of "single-ness".

I also learned that I wasn't "done" yet with W and our R...just didn't feel right, that I did still love her, deeply. I wasn't done and would fight for us.

So I manned-up, got some more focus, determination and some more detachment and here I am.

As far as W, I do know that she wanted to run, escape...and for a while it was probably only the kids that kept her at home (and oh did she ever cook up some scenarios to completely cake walk forevermore in her alien mind)...

At the same time, I have never really believed she truly wanted out, deep down. I think she wanted escape from her pain and responsibility, those demons from her past...and she wanted me to change, and I wasn't getting it, wasn't listening for so long.

There would be times that she felt I was getting close to done (yeah, she can read me VERY well after 20+ years, and I have never been able to hide my feelings well, and have ALWAYS lost at poker) and I could swear I saw fear...fear that I didn't have the fortitude to see her through this, that I was going to leave or whatever. In some of her breaking moments, her words skated around this, but the underlying feeling was there, however cloaked.

I think that by my changes, letting the A(s) run their course and the OMs to show their true selves as they eventually do, and by sticking it out that she may be or is including me in her staying now, and hopefully not as a second-choice, chopped liver option because the OM didn't work out (lol, my ego does not need that bruising on top of everything else, though in all reality it may have been/may be part of the decision/deciding...like the details of her A(s), I don't really need to know right now, if ever... sick ).

I didn't think, many, many times, too numerous to count, that I had the patience either, Kimmerz...but I kept finding it, one hour/day/week at a time. I know that some of the tools of DB made that patience appear...the solutions journal, the gratitude journal (there was one day where my only entry was that one of our cats napped with me, it was such a bad day with everything in life!), the GAL, the forum...I also have been setting dates in the future where I reflect on where I am at, if I want to continue, etc...after those dates, whatever I decide will be followed through until the next self-check in...the last one was March 21st, the next this summer. That has helped me stay on track and put the "deciding" stress out of my head (mostly)... smile

W's self reflection started surfacing shortly after the time when I was "done", though I know it has been going on underground throughout. Interesting how when I was "done" is when W started opening up.

One thing I do know now...I am going to make a great H for some woman someday with all I have learned and grown in addition to my built-in kindness, dedication and other good qualities...I want it to be W.

Wow..(no, not THAT WoW)...guess I got opened up and wrote a novel...

smile

T^2
_________________________
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus

Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm


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#2240659 - 04/25/12 11:41 AM Re: Unidentified MLC, phase 2 - can I get it right? [Re: TSquared2]
TSquared2 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 2232
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Thinking some more about the "in-house" separation thingy, one of the disadvantages is that not only do you have to continuously figure out how to deal with WAS in the moment, but also "keep" yourself all.the.time (or try to...), not let them see the pain, the longing, the anger, the frustration...unless I left for a walk or whatever, I never had "down" time to just let it out without W knowing (besides the closed door double flip-offs...lol). That does get tiring, and is stressful, especially for as long as these things go on, and on. Those/these days after I finally got me some detachment were/are like gold.

I do give W a lot of credit for staying, and eventually starting to open up, especially given her upbringing and old MO of "run". I am thankful, and thankful I haven't had to encounter her moving out, that would have been horrible for the kids...so I AM thankful.

W was distant and avoiding eye contact again last night, and of course my monkey-mind gets creating all sorts of theories...just processing? backslide on contact with OM or cyber? just "one of those days" ?...ugh, and, *sigh*...

W called this a.m. with a question, and while I was looking it up, she said there was a fireman in line with her, maybe he knew the answer, and made a joke that "could" have been taken sexually (maybe it was a test??)...that hit me wrong and stirred up jealousy and mistrust (but I did not let on that I was bothered)...that was never a part of our relationship...before that would not have bothered me at all...I hate having lost that trust! The old controller in me wants to confront and get some answers (damn these old ways die hard). I do know that that trust issue and loss needs to be addressed by me internally, and eventually in MC if we make it...idk...gotta find me a stick of detachment around here somewhere...
_________________________
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus

Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm


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#2240718 - 04/25/12 02:17 PM Re: Unidentified MLC, phase 2 - can I get it right? [Re: TSquared2]
WenikiTiki Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/11
Posts: 1073
Loc: Hawaii
Oh T^2!

Just by recognizing the feeling you had you did great!

My in house separation isn't working so well for me, either.

Here is some detachment for you:

DETACH<DETACH<DETACH<DETACH<DETACH<DETACH<DETACH<DETACH

Now just break off a chunk and use it whenever you need it!

Aloha,

Wendy
_________________________
Me 54 XH 55 Sons age 29 & 24 M:32 T:33
D final 9/12
Sold the house, Progress is being made!

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#2240726 - 04/25/12 02:45 PM Re: Unidentified MLC, phase 2 - can I get it right? [Re: WenikiTiki]
TSquared2 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 2232
Loc: Rocky Mountains
lol, Thanks Wendy!

From what I have read on your sitch, you have the in-house tribulations thing WAY, WAY worse than I do...if W acted like your H, for as long as he has, I don't think I could have handled it, at all, omg...someone would have been moved out for sure.

It is funny how we can be going along all detached and coping okay, then some little thing sets off a trigger and bam! it is all in front of our face and taking over our minds and hearts, again.

Breaking off a piece of detach....back to trusting God, the universe, etc. (oh, AND trusting ME!).

smile

T^2
_________________________
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus

Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm


Top
#2241101 - 04/26/12 11:17 PM Re: Unidentified MLC, phase 2 - can I get it right? [Re: TSquared2]
TSquared2 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 2232
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Well, since I seem addicted to analyzing everything, I think that her backing off after the big hug and ILY last week was just like a feral cat coming closer to your hand...maybe she came close, then realized what she was doing and backed off a few steps to re-assess. Love the feral cat metaphor, it seems to fit soooo well.

Good thing is that she seems to have taken a couple steps back towards me...last night we were working on the kids homework and in close proximity, I really worked on my communication, and knowing that one of her issues is lack of validation growing up, I kept validating her good ideas/solutions, whereas the old me would not have, only just because if it makes sense, I didn't feel the need to say much....not any more...I just didn't know, now I do, so no excuses.

We also had a great phone conversation today (just general life things, no R things), almost like the old days...I could hear it in her voice. Funny thing is she abruptly said that she felt the need to go when things were going so well...hmmm...more cat backing off? I ended the conversation without issue or hanging on, respecting her need for controlling the distance.

Another thing is whenever I say or do something that she likes or works, she says "I don't know if I should tell you, but <insert what I did/said here> works/I like/etc"...she said the same line regarding going through withdrawal from cyberA/OM posted previously...am I being messaged?

T^2
_________________________
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus

Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm


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#2241109 - 04/27/12 12:01 AM Re: Unidentified MLC, phase 2 - can I get it right? [Re: TSquared2]
TSquared2 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/23/11
Posts: 2232
Loc: Rocky Mountains
Ok, I can answer my above question fairly confidently...I just don't get the "I don't know if I should tell you" thing...
_________________________
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus

Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm


Top
#2241235 - 04/27/12 02:52 PM Re: Unidentified MLC, phase 2 - can I get it right? [Re: TSquared2]
WenikiTiki Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/11
Posts: 1073
Loc: Hawaii
Okay..... the "I don't know if I should tell you" thing feels to me like she is pulling back towards you, and that scares her that she is doing the wrong thing.

More feral cat stuff.....

And again, be glad she can see that she is having feelings that confuse herself. Recognizing feelings is a big step.
_________________________
Me 54 XH 55 Sons age 29 & 24 M:32 T:33
D final 9/12
Sold the house, Progress is being made!

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