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#2242736 - 05/04/12 01:59 AM Re: this path is MY path [Re: oldtimer]
zig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 1855
Loc: KS
But, more important, a child should not ever have to try to manage the emotional welfare of a parent. Not good

is that what you understood that i was doing yesterday, because i said that i cried in front of him for a few seconds? because i acknowledged that i was having a bit of a tough time coping yesterday.

i have been very careful to be really strong in front of s throughout all of this time. except for yesterday

yesterday when i was emotional, i said to him very clearly that it was okay for me to be a bit sad, and he could give me a hug, but he didn't need to feel in anyway that he needed to make me feel better - that was my job,

in the beginning of this sitch i noticed that he was trying to take over h's role in taking care of me as h had done, and i explained very clearly to him that that was not his job, that i was his parent and i would and could take care of him very well. he relaxed and stopped doing that completely.

it is very clear to the family and our friends that he feels more stable and is more comfortable and at home with me during the week he is with me. even after 8 and a hlf months he only sees this as home - still refuses to take even one toy or book to h's house - only has his clothes and a couple of books that h got him there. he refuses to have play dates there and only one of his friends knows that his father doesn't live at home

all the writing that i do here - i only vent here - not in front of him or anyone else except my mom, mil and one friend. i have been ultra careful to make this as safe and secure a home for s, and even though i might not be too great in my mind with all of this, i feel that i have done a good job with s

if there is something that i wrote that made you sense that i was using s as an emotional support, i hope you will point it out to me, so that i can be more aware of what i'm doing.i would hate to think that i was doing that with s and putting that sort of pressure on him

i really appreciate your input, old-timer - i must be in bad shape here for you to have come to help me

it's time for me to calm down and just read old posts and realign myself with my goals and stop freaking out every time h withdraws.

thank you
zig
_________________________
me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"


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#2242769 - 05/04/12 03:30 AM Re: this path is MY path [Re: zig]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9117
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Wow, a lot can happen in 14 hours!

The email you wrote-too much information, cut it to the facts.

Also, how about you have a moratorium on H's family?

TOO MUCH DRAMA!

It seems you go into spin mode after contact with them.

((()))
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S 3/11-12/13

She could never go back and make some of the details pretty. All she
could do was move forward and make the whole beautiful
~Terri St. Cloud

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#2242777 - 05/04/12 04:00 AM Re: this path is MY path [Re: labug]
zig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 1855
Loc: KS
hi labug thanks for stopping in - it seems to go in cycles - with all three of them,, i swear. and you're right - i spin off and flounder real badly. starting to see it really clearly now. as for 14 hrs - yeah - it seems that every time i get to a good place in my mind, they sense it and one of them makes sure that i land up being nuts again (big grin - that was meant to be a joke - i am fully responsible for my own reactions. but seriously i'm starting to see a bit of a pattern here!!)

the positive thing is that even though i really vented here on the board, i held it together much better than before - i could see more clearly what was happening and control my emotions much more - so quite a bit of improvement for me compared to before when i would really fall apart for days,

probably missed what i wrote in the last post - because it was way too long - that i've decided to back off - and just leave things - no emails,no calls nothing - he's really in full withdrawal this week - it is the week before finals so i know he's crazy busy, but it could be because of last weekend, either way it doesn't matter why.

i want to just gather myself and get to a good place - we leave next wednesday on this group camp trip with the kids and i real need to be as grounded and centered as possible so that i can be well around him.

what's having a moratorium? i really don't know.

hope you're well
zig
_________________________
me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"


Top
#2242784 - 05/04/12 04:16 AM Re: this path is MY path [Re: zig]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9117
Loc: Sonoran Desert
Don't see or talk to them.

OK, I looked up the official definition: a suspension of activity

and now for this because there are a lot of weird vibes around:

Mercury is playing around with Mars and Jupiter today, which causes conflicts in relationships and communications.... It should level out tomorrow when Mercury aligns with Venus. Saturday's full moon is the "super full moon" of the year (Wesak Moon) and its said the Buddah discovered enlightenment under this type of full moon... It only happens once a year and is said to be the most powerful for positive interactions.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S 3/11-12/13

She could never go back and make some of the details pretty. All she
could do was move forward and make the whole beautiful
~Terri St. Cloud

Top
#2242864 - 05/04/12 02:18 PM Re: this path is MY path [Re: labug]
zig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 1855
Loc: KS
Don't see or talk to them.

done! kind of - the contact has been way less this past month - mainly because they are struggling a lot with their own stuff, especially their conflicted feelings about buying the house for h.

i've also been focusing more on NOT talking about it so much all around, especially with mil.

your words hit the spot - labug - i wasn't ready before, but i can see how much more i am now. besides my horoscope said yesterday - listen to what someone else tells you - well, between you and old-timer - i am listening! and acting on it.

mil and i have been best friends for years - but i think we both realize that this situation is difficult. we've talked about it a lot in the past couple of months, how we want to stay close in spite of - but it's time for me to move away a bit.

now the last couple of days i've found myself sensing that i am going dark - not as a deliberate conscious decision as in ok, follow the rules, go dark, but more in that it is just starting to happen naturally - as if since i am ready for it it is going to happen anyway - more in my mind .

i'm seeing more clearly how i am not DB'ing well enough and where i slip up in the most subtle ways - but most of all i am seeing more clearly where i need to really work on myself and that is the most important thing of all.

hope you have as brilliant a day as i'm deliberately planning to have. off to photograph my shawls - the sun is beautiful after the thunderstorm during the night and i'm going to take advantage of that

zig

ps. i am SURE that we are all going to reach enlightenment tomorrow - no doubt about it!!!

as for the moon - h is a cancer - and they really get affected deeply - in fact, i'm pretty sure his withdrawal pattern is following the moon - it's literally every 3 weeks. he was always really moody - either really high or then withdrawn, and it was during the withdrawn periods that we always had crazy arguments and fights - wish i'd realized how cyclical it was - it always did confuse me why we would do really great for 2 or 3 weeks and then it would get nutty. he always blamed it on my PMS - but guess what - haven't had any "pas symptoms" for 8 months!! wonder what happened to them...
_________________________
me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"


Top
#2243222 - 05/06/12 01:10 PM Re: this path is MY path [Re: zig]
zig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 1855
Loc: KS
conversation came up yesterday about packing for the camping school trip leaving on wednesday.

h suggested taking the large tent

WTF?

i think he thinks we are all going to stay in the same tent?

s was there - we were all very tired after the May Festival at school. i just said we'll talk about it later.

any thoughts on how to deal with this scenario? i wasn't expecting it at all. i was assuming that i would be on my own in a little tent.

i mentioned that i had arranged with our friend to borrow a super warm sleeping bag - he immediately insisted we could take his dad's as we used to in the past.

how do other's handle trips together during these sitches - part of me so does not want to go -

thanks
zig
_________________________
me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"


Top
#2243233 - 05/06/12 03:01 PM Re: this path is MY path [Re: zig]
labug Offline
Member

Registered: 11/25/11
Posts: 9117
Loc: Sonoran Desert
This has not come up for me but I would certainly take my own tent and sleeping bag.
_________________________
Me 57/H 58
M36 S 3/11-12/13

She could never go back and make some of the details pretty. All she
could do was move forward and make the whole beautiful
~Terri St. Cloud

Top
#2243237 - 05/06/12 03:45 PM Re: this path is MY path [Re: labug]
zig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 1855
Loc: KS
thanks labug

yesterday was a bit strange - it seemed as if he spent the whole day coming toward and withdrawing - cycled in and out of it several times.

right when i was getting ready to leave the festival - i went to say bye - and he brought up stuff that is difficult for me to listen to. i let him go on for a minute or so, then said to myself - i don't need to get pulled into this, and just said calmly, well i have to get going i have stuff to do.

he and s brought stuff back to the house a couple of hours later and to pick up s's things as he went back to h's yesterday - and instead of taking off he sat down on the couch -he hasn't done that in a while and seemed to want to hang out a bit, in spite of constantly saying that they were trashed and needed to go get cleaned up and grocery shop (it was late!). then he brought up the tent thing

it seems as if, when i don't participate in the "crazy conversations" then he makes attempts to move towards me in some indirect way. last fall when we camped for a night at a party - he said what so we can't sleep in the same tent? that seems silly.

i'm in such a different place now - pulling away a bit myself, that no, we can't sleep in the same tent.

i think he wants to give the impression to the other families that all is good on the home front - two tents would obviously show that it isn't.
i'm ready to show that it isn't = i'm having a hard time carrying this story that we're not separated in certain specific aspects of his life.

don't want to push the issue either. and as for s - don't know what he's going to make of it - in either scenario - all three of us in the same tent, or two separate tents in front of all his friends - it upsets him terribly that they may find out. do i hold the secret for s or just be hard and not - i'm torn on this one.

mil told me yesterday that at first she thought s was fine about h's new house, but then the other day something happened which showed her really clearly that he's very upset about it and it's hit home for s that i'm not a part of that picture.

yes - i know - no contact - but she and fil were at the festival all day - and i had to hang out with them - we did talk through what happened earlier this week with fil - and resolved it. she is respecting completely my issues with the trip and not taking s with them, and asked if i would agree to her suggesting a separate trip with just the 3 of them and if she could tell s that. i agreed .

we also decided that from now on they would email both h and i at the same time for any plans they want to have with s, and h and i could discuss and decide together, and then they could let s know.

so we are in a good place now, and i think that i won't have too much problem for myself to detach a bit from them also

thanks
zig
_________________________
me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"


Top
#2243278 - 05/06/12 10:39 PM Re: this path is MY path [Re: zig]
zig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 1855
Loc: KS
practicing being more assertive in this sitch with h:

parts of this evening's conversation.

h: are we okay about this trip? (after i let him know that i'm taking my own tent)
me: actually, i'm a bit uncomfortable and apprehensive about it
h: can we talk about it?
me: i'm not sure what to say. i feel that when we are together, i have to make this enormous effort to keep the peace. but each time, you seem to take the opportunity to do or say something that is difficult for me, and then i have to make huge efforts to keep myself okay with being with the two of you

h: i have no idea what you are talking about

me: well, i'll give you a specific e.g.. at the last potluck we went to together, when i asked you why you gave our extra ingredients to the host, your reply was "we're not together any more, why should i give them to you"

h: there's no way i said that, why would i say something that awful?

me: well i guess we can't go any further in this discussion if we are stuck at a point where you say you didn't say it and i say that's what i heard

h: well that was not nice of me to say, are those the type of things you are referring to?

me: yes. i can manage for a few hours, but the thought of 3 days of that sort of thing makes me worried

h: you and i should learn to get along better. we already get along great
me: silent
h: we can do this - you and i are good friends - and we should keep being good friends
me; silent
h: i guess that could be pretty hurtful for you to hear?
me:silent
h: i suppose i should promise that i'll be on my best behavior then? - laughs a bit nervously
me: i join in and laugh and say lightly "yes, you'd better be".
h: okay - lets make this trip about just having fun and the three of us being together. i promise i'll behave.

other parts of the conversation started off not so good, but turned into a surprisingly good result. the issue was when he and s come over to pack our gear. his work schedule had changed unexpectedly and he wanted to do it tomorrow - which wasn't the best for me. i got a bit vague because i didn't want to decide on the spot, and then offered that s and i would take care of it. he got abrupt and pissy and started to get off the phone after offering again to get his dad's sleeping bag to which i had replied, i can take care of myself

i stopped him and asked what the matter was - his answer:you don't have to be so offensive.turned out he was upset that i wouldn't let him come and pack and not let him get the sleeping bag for me - that he wanted to do it together. i apologized and said that i didn't realize that was what he wanted - i had got the impression he was stressed about doing it and that's why i suggested s and i could do it

in the end i offered they could come first thing in the morning, and we'd pack together and it would be done. and the conversation ended on a good note.

i also got the opportunity to thank him for taking s shoe and clothes shopping. he was worried that i wouldn't be happy with s's choices (he was apologetic) and i got to say that i would be happy with whatever they had chosen- -a 180 for me because i used to be really particular about what s wore.
_________________________
me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"


Top
#2243280 - 05/06/12 11:00 PM Re: this path is MY path [Re: zig]
zig Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/12
Posts: 1855
Loc: KS
journaling

what i learned for myself from this phone conversation

1; it's okay for me to say when things are difficult and not just "take it"
2. i'm so defensive about everything to do with h, that i assume first that he doesn't want to be around me, and am always setting it up to be that (for e.g.. saying i could pack the stuff even when he was offering to do it together)
3. when he gets pissy and abrupt he's hurt about something and if i give him the opportunity, he can tell me what it's about
4.i can ask for us to both to behave in situations like this and expect it

i feel much more enthusiastic and positive about this trip. i really want to go for son - and for both of us to be there for him.

s is struggling though - the moment he switched over to h yesterday - it was difficult for me and him - for most of the day. h and i need to figure out how to help him to be okay with both of us present at the same time.

he was really hurtful to me during the morning at the festival - his class was performing with their violins and he had forgotten his at home. he came to me and told me accusingly that i had forgotten his violin . i replied that i didn't even know that he needed to bring it, and he insisted that he had told me. i asked if he absolutely needed it before i jumped in the car to go home and get it and he said yes. when i brought it back - 45 mins of driving - and told him it was on the stage - his reply: "Finally" and off he went to warm up and later perform.
after the performance when he came to us i reached out to hug him and he turned away. when h did the same he went and hugged him

i was proud of my reaction - in the past this type of thing has made me really emotional - but now i understood what was going on with him. when he left the house with h, he was struggling so much with switching over that remembering his violin was probably too much. then he felt so bad about it, that he couldn't come to me. i let it go, and many hours later he did approach me and was a bit warmer.

so i'm learning better each day how to deal with my boys in better more healthy ways.

i also saw another thing that i do that i didn't realize (it's defensiveness that makes me do it) - when i was going in to talk to the teacher about how bad he did need his violin, h caught up with me , ready to deal with it together - i immediately told him not to worry and that i would take care of it and kept walking. he went back andsat down and it was only later as i was driving back to school that it hit me what i had done - there was h trying to be involved TOGETHER in the situation and i blew him off and made him redundant.

in the moment, i was reacting to what s had said to me and how obnoxiously he had spoken to me and was feeling hurt and confused about why it had to be that way. i didn't want h to see that, so i wanted him to just go away.

i'm feeling pummeled by the two of them. it's like i just can't get it right with either, even though i understand that s is in a hard place right now and is probably a mess in his head with what is going on around him.
_________________________
me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"


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