Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 15 of 20 1 2 13 14 15 16 17 19 20
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 661
G
Member
OP Offline
Member
G
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 661
Thank you all for the "thumbs up." Kimmerz, to answer your question, my H said nothing. I have often wondered if he just puts the phone down when I'm talking. When we're arguing he has plenty to say, but when I'm controlled and unemotional he seems to listen (note to self). Something has been puzzling me since yesterday. I thought it was odd that my H referred to US saving money. He has to pay me what he's legally required to so it really doesn't benefit him to refinance. Last Friday our blow out was over the amount his attorney estimated that he would be paying me each month which was quite a bit lower than my attorney estimated. Anyway, at no point yesterday did he say anything about making it easier for me to afford the mortgage. He only referred to us paying less. I'm also wondering about a conversation that he had with our accountant between Friday and yesterday. I know the accountant has felt badly about our separation and had told me that he wanted to talk to my H. He's divorced and remarried and said he would definitely try to persuade others from that choice. A while back I posted about the lack of mentors in our communities. Well, I'm so glad that the accountant tried to be one to both my H and me. I don't know that he got through to my H, but it sure is interesting that Friday he was spewing, then he met with the account, followed by his initiative to refinance the house at absolutely no benefit to him unless we stay together. I guess I'm just looking for even the slightest bit of hope. Regardless, I'm standing firm with NC. After re-reading parts of Love Must Be Tough I realize that pulling back and expecting respectful treatment is my best chance for reconciliation, and even more important, rebuilding my self-esteem.

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,294
Likes: 112
job Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,294
Likes: 112
golf mom,
Whenever you speak a calm and controlled voice, he will listen. When we are all over the place, pointing fingers and trying to tell them that they are making mistakes, etc., they will spew and it's like backing them into a corner, i.e., they come out swinging. Now, you will need to keep your boundaries in place and continue as you have been. Do not back down or, just like a child, he'll walk all over you.

I'm glad you have a good accountant. However, the only thing that your h will listen to is if there is a benefit to his "cash" pocket about the refinancing of the home. However, keep your expectations at zero. Mlcers tend to say "we" often and it's not meant that they are thinking of reconciling. It's out of habit. Keep in mind, he could very well plan to refinance the home and keep it the loan/mortgage in both names and yet live separately. Some of them do this. A good friend of mine who use to post here is in this particular situation and there is no indication that her h has ever woken up and he's been on the Mother Ship for approximately 12 years. Yes, he's gotten friendlier and spends time w/her, but not indication of wanting to reconcile.

Golf mom, I want you to have hope and keep the door ajar, but also keep your expectations at zero. I don't want to see you set yourself up for more disappointment if he suddenly does something different.

You are a strong and independent lady and I know that, in time, you are going to be okay. Please do not doubt yourself...you are doing just fine and are exactly where you should be at this time. You are learning about yourself and what boundaries you need to put in place to gain respect. All I can say is "go, girl"!


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 889
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 889
Hi GM,

I speak from experience in regards to what Snodderly said about speaking in calm, controlled voice, or texts or emails. It's very true! A few times during the first month or two after BD and him moving out I had a few of my "spews" of my own. I figured that I had taken all his spew it was time he hear some of my own. It would just make him start in more, and more, and more. As much as I wanted to verbally tear right back into him, I realized it was fighting fire with fire, two wrongs were not making a right, and someone had to get a grip.

At this point in the game Im beginning to think that when we speak to them and the spewing stops, they're actually listening to us. They may not even respond back to us or completely drop the conversation, but I think we've been heard. That was a hard one for me to really understand. Im an assertive person and my expectations are for people to treat me assertively back. Quite frankly most civilized people in everyday life do act that way towards others! I just took it that if he wasn't responding to my emails, texts or comments, he wasn't reading them or listening. Later down the road he told me he always reads my emails, it's just he didn't know how to respond or even if he should. AVOIDANT PERSONALITY!


At any rate Xh's way to let me know he's irritated is to just make remarks with underlying tones of irritation, sarcasm, or just come right out and blast me now that MLC hit. If I can tell he's hinting about something I just nip it at the bud, and ask him what's really going on. What's different now, is he will actually communicate with me and tell me. Before he'd just sit in the corner and pout and say "never mind".

If he starts in on a personal attack, what I do is really, really listen to what his POINT IS, and address that. That nips it at the bud too. I got a lot of spew from him at Christmas. D12 was having a very hard time at his house, overnight for the first time with OW. She isolated herself in her bedroom crying the entire time talking about how much she missed me. My god this was her first Christmas in a broken family, she was absolutely heart broken. Yet who's fault was it? Mine! all mine! I got spew texts that she was fine up until she text me and then she fell into tears and was depressed all night and day. yes it was me that made her feel guilty for having fun.

My response " well if I made her feel guilty about it, she will let me know."

It takes alot of patience because when they start throwing those personal insults left and right, its our instict to defend ourselves and throw it right back.

But I've learned a person can adequately defend themselves without having to personally attack anyone.


M=42 XH=44
M=18 T=21
D14 D11
Divorced 4/2012
XH marries OW 6/2014.
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 661
G
Member
OP Offline
Member
G
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 661
I'm definitely going to have to stay very calm when I talk to him and, quite honestly, I don't trust myself to do that all of the time. Friday showed me that he can easily push my buttons. I wish I would have just printed the email and given it to my attorney rather than try to defend myself. Kimmerz, it is interesting how they seem to listen when the conversation is unemotional, even if the topic is negative. On Tuesday, because I was in a work mode, my professional, distant way of talking to him had created much better results. I was cordial, but very matter of fact. I also ended the conversation first before things turned hostile and he hung up on me again. I really do have to be in the right frame of mind though, since most of the time I want to let him have it. I feel like most days I either feel flat, angry or sad. I'm just waiting for the joy to return. I can put on a smile in public, but at home I'm still struggling.

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 661
G
Member
OP Offline
Member
G
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 661
I am such a fool! Why do I continue to look for signs of hope? I really thought that our conversation earlier this week was positive and maybe even indicated that there was a possibility that we'd reconcile. I was really wrong. Today I got an email from my H (thought I had blocked his work email as well) outlining his terms for me to give to my attorney. Now he's back to wanting his name off the mortgage as soon as possible. The refinancing is pending, but I figured out why he initiated it. He wants to save himself money until the divorce is final since he is continuing to support me beyond what he will eventually be required to do. And, get this, it's all about preserving his credit since I'm the one who pays the bills. Never mind that I had pleaded with him months ago to take the house off the market and refinance. At that time he could have cared less about where the boys and I live. Now he's fine with refinancing so he can save money until everything is finalized. I can't believe I let myself believe there was hope in his actions. You all warned me and you were right. This was just another self-serving act. Once I realized it I sobbed for an hour. I'm better now after talking to a friend. No way will I contact him or in anyway acknowledge his email. I'll print it for my attorney to address. In the meantime, I need to block his email and continue with no contact. I have a question. We basically agreed to everything that he outlined in our conversation on Tuesday and I told him that I didn't want further contact with him, so why is he continuing to contact me?

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 661
G
Member
OP Offline
Member
G
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 661
I just read this about passive-agressive spouses and it really hit home, especially how they are attracted to co-dependents. Are a lot of MLCers this personality type? I feel like our marriage was a farce and doomed from the start.

http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/abusiverelationships/a/Pass_Agg.htm

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 889
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 889
Hi Golf mom!

Been thinking of you today wondering how things were going. Your sitch really hits home, so many things are similar. Where you are now on this journey is where I was 9- 10 months ago.

First of all DO NOT beat yourself up for getting signs of hope, ok? I mean if they're dropping sigs of hope, we're going to see that. Believe me, we've all done it! Get some signs of hope to only find the complete opposite happened, and then feel foolish.
I know...believe me I do.

BTW, have you gone to The Hero's Spouse website? If you haven't heard of it already it's a website totally dedicated to MLC and it's every detail...and I mean every detail. I strongly suggest you go there and bookmark this in your favorites. This woman that created this site should have a doctorate in MLC by now. I go there often, because it's there I get answers to many questions, like the one you have now. Infact this same question was brewing in my head today...why on earth did he continue to have contact in such strong spurts....and leave cookie crumbs of HOPE? Especially after it's been made clear to BACK OFF?

Why does he continue to contact you? From what I understand it really is their way of staying in touch, even if it appears strictly business. What Im learning is just how emotional these MLCers are, and that all their actions are based on whatever emotion their having at that time. Which in a sense I find a good thing and a bad thing. A good thing...meaning if it's positive, they do mean it. But then again if it's negative, they do mean that too...even if what's negative is NOT THE TRUTH.

I've also realized out of my own defensiveness, I've falsely accused my Xh of doing things spitefully to hurt me, when he really wasn't. I feel that the strongest when he would do things to show he cared, or missed me, then turn right around and be nasty and spew about something. When these MLCers zip from one emotion to the next, and one random act of kindness and caring to the next nasty spew tactic, it's only normal to think and feel that they're purposely trying to mess with our minds!

But I guess their emotions are so out of control, well what you're getting it what you're getting at that moment.


So if your H was in the mood to have a good talk with you last week, thats where his emotions were at the time. Then, if it suddenly changes and he hangs up on you, well that's his emotions at that time too. If he's spewing, well that's what mood he's in. If he's friendly the next day, well that's what mood he's in. Their emotions literally have total control over them right now....not vice versa.

In regards to your conversation you mentioned.....I've had the same experience. Perhaps they sense we're in control of ourselves and are focused, and we're not in the mood to mess around. WE have control over our reactions and emotions at that particular time. Perhaps they're drawn to that in a way because quite frankly their emotions are just running so amuck they don't know what to do.


M=42 XH=44
M=18 T=21
D14 D11
Divorced 4/2012
XH marries OW 6/2014.
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 661
G
Member
OP Offline
Member
G
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 661
Kimmerz, I go to The Hero's Spouse website daily. You mentioned it on your thread a while back. I have found it really helpful, so thank you! Unlike our husbands, it seems that while MLCers often threaten divorce most don't file. So why do/did our H's feel the need to see it through? Is it your understanding that they believe that ending the marriage is the quickest way to the happiness they're seeking?

When I was reading about passive-agressive personalities I was reminded that these people need to feel a since of control. I wonder if that's why my H felt the need to send a follow up email outlining his requirements for the refinancing. When we spoke Tuesday I was very business like which is a 180 for me. Since I have continued NC the house stuff seems to be his excuse for contacting me even though I've made it clear that he needs to go through his attorney from now on.

My emotional episodes are getting shorter, thank goodness. It helps a lot to come to this board or cry it out with a friend instead of contacting my H when he does/says something that sends me into a tailspin. It's one less conversation to ruminate over.

Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,294
Likes: 112
job Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 28,294
Likes: 112
golf mom,
I hope you don't mind my responding to you recent posting...

The need for divorce is because they view us as the enemy and, in their eyes, they feel they are entitled to happiness, which they do not believe they have had w/us for a very, very long time. They feel that if they are divorced, they will find that greener grass and the land of happiness. Of course, we all know that the issues will go right along w/them and that happiness comes from within.

Many will say that they are afraid to come into the house, they feel smothered or they feel that they are dying. It is all part of the anxiety and guilt that they are feeling at the beginning of the crisis. Confusion plays a role too. In order to alleviate those feelings, they run like little children from the bogey man. I did a thread many years ago on why they run. There were many excellent postings by membes of the board. You may find this thread helpful.

Also, keep in mind, they want to control their own destiny and they look at us as authority figures. People who know them and expect them to be responsible human beings. We know them like the back of our hand and the new friends/and ops will not know them like we did.

As for the follow up email your h sent to you, this is typical of them. They want to be in control and tell us what to do and think. They have completely forgotten that we do know how to think and do things on our own. Control is a major issue w/them, just as entitlement is.

Continue the NC because it appears to be helping you. You are definitely getting stronger by doing so.


Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to.
The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 661
G
Member
OP Offline
Member
G
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 661
Thank you so much, snodderly! Please, jump in any time. I'm sure lots of us are learning from your experience and wisdom. I think the most painful part of this for me comes from the knowledge that I've gained about MLC. I really wish my H would not have filed for D since it's likely that it will become final before he is even out of the replay stage. It seems that it may be several years before he realizes what he's done and that his decision to leave didn't result in the happiness he is seeking. I would have been fine, at least for awhile, to let this play out while I focused on me and the boys, but my H just couldn't let it be. He was adamant that because his feelings hadn't changed, and they probably won't change, the logical next step is to file for D. However, he always throws in that we have six months to think about things and change our minds.

You're right about NC. I feel more in control of my emotions when I don't communicate with him. When I have a weak moment and let him know what I want or how I feel I end up feeling powerless. Making a conscious decision to not respond to him gives me some control and subsequently helps to restore my self worth.

Regarding what you wrote about their feelings of coming home, my H has told me that he feels a lot of anxiety when he is here (although that has been several months now). He has blamed that on me and the resentment he feels (his loss of manhood while in our marriage, etc. - again that's all my fault) but from your understanding is it really that being here brings up all the terrible feelings he had which made him flee? In other words, while here he felt helpless and out of control, but away he has the illusion that he has escaped what troubled him. I would really like to read the thread that you referred to. Please post a link to that and any others you think would be helpful. I truly appreciate all of you help!

Page 15 of 20 1 2 13 14 15 16 17 19 20

Moderated by  Cadet, DnJ, job, Michele Weiner-Davis 

Link Copied to Clipboard