Spinning, neglect, loss and the bomb

[breakdownbill]

On the days my reservior of grace and humility is running dry, like today, sometimes I find myself getting really angry. Especially when I'm alone.

I feel so incredibly betrayed, used and attacked. I'm so angry about what's happening to my family and my kids. It's as if someone stole something from me right in front of my face, and is just standing there.

I find myself having *irrational* thoughts about retribution. For example, maybe I should flirt/date some random OW, or go have a physical fling. I found myself having a very irrational and fleeting vision that I was in a serious car wreck--and I confusingly got some minor pleasure out of the vision in that it would hurt W that I was physically injured and would leave her to have to take care 100% of the chores/kids.

Some days are better than others.

Hi Ouroboros

You do get days like this & I've had many of them, but that's what this forum is for, venting your frustration & allowing others to show you how to see things differently.

It's OK to have thoughts about retribution (it's natural), but I'd advise you not to, because the last thing you need right now is any more confusion in your life. You are hurting, feeling angry and at a stage where you are looking outwards for answers.

When people say detach and GAL on here, they mean it, because we can only control our actions, our feelings our choices. It took me over a month to start believing it and to stop feeling like a victim, and you know what I feel a lot better.
There is a lot of uncertaintity in my M, is my W still having an affair? Will we have a separation? Will my Kids be OK?

But all of these questions, I cannot answer, if I think about them I know I will get anxious, depressed and not be someone you'd choose to be around. Honestly, you have to let go of all the doubt, the guilt, the blame & just focus on 2 things right now. Firstly - YOU - if you want to stop feeling bad and start having good fellings and be happy again, you can't wait for them to happen, you have to take action. It can be anything - walking, running, gym - your friends a hobby - do something YOU enjoy for YOU. Secondly - you have to be a great Dad and be there for your kids, no matter what, the happier they are, the happier you will be.

I realised that our spouses choose to be with us, they don't have to be with us. You really do have to just be the best YOU - for YOU and if it wins your W back in time, it's an added bonus. But you have to do these changes for YOU and for your happiness.

I act like I've started a new relationship with my W, now because I don't want to go back to my old M, that's how I rationalise all the horrible, scary stuff in our sitch's.

Don't overthink the what IF's, just work on you & be patient.

Bill

[ouroboros]

Have any of you used the DB coaches?

I had one DB coach meeting which was instructive.
Specifically, I'm trying to figure out when it would make sense to have a second session.

Any advice?

[ouroboros]

Yea in a way we do give birth to our own situations. But the day we realize that, we will be able to heal and move forward. Referring to RD, be like the "Cat", not like "Rimmer"!

Most days, I think I'm more like Lister...
Waking up in a surreal situation filled with distractions to keep you going.

[ouroboros]

Oh nice. W had a lunch date with OP.

I'm thinking that I should find a way to bring up her EA/PA during counseling.
Thoughts?

[breakdownbill]

If it's individual counselling - knock yourself out and it would be good to get it all off your chest.

If it's MC and you are together, your W will not thank you for bringing it up in that environment and won't help your situation. IMO if you are going to bring it up and want to talk to her about it, do it at home.

But before you do ask her - ask yourself some questions.

How do you think she'll react?

Will it do anything to benefit you situation or the way you are feeling?

Am I ready to handle this difficult conversation without it doing any more damage to my sitch?

She might have been on the fence about seeing this OP again, but will my conversation influence her choices in the way that you want?

Just think about it, before you decide to confront her or not.

Bill

[ouroboros]

If it's individual counselling - knock yourself out and it would be good to get it all off your chest.

If it's MC and you are together, your W will not thank you for bringing it up in that environment and won't help your situation. IMO if you are going to bring it up and want to talk to her about it, do it at home.

I've talked all about it in IC. After the past week, I'm wondering about finding a gentle way to talk about it in MC.

But before you do ask her - ask yourself some questions.
How do you think she'll react?
Will it do anything to benefit you situation or the way you are feeling?
Am I ready to handle this difficult conversation without it doing any more damage to my sitch?
She might have been on the fence about seeing this OP again, but will my conversation influence her choices in the way that you want?

I'm just having a ridiculously hard time with the deceit. I asked her directly the day after the bomb and she said there was noone else.

But, I'm thinking that this has become a rather serious EA and if I can somehow get it out of hiding, at least she'll have to own up to it. I guess what I'm wondering is if I can get it out there and open, it would be a little more "real" to her I think and less of a special secret fantasy?

It would be a very difficult conversation, which is why I was trying to get ideas how to bring it to light in MC.

[breakdownbill]

I've talked all about it in IC. After the past week, I'm wondering about finding a gentle way to talk about it in MC.

I'm just having a ridiculously hard time with the deceit. I asked her directly the day after the bomb and she said there was noone else.

Sounds exactly how it unravelled for me too, I was told there was noone else & that it was all my fault & that she had felt unhappy for ages.

You can check out my 1st thread as to how I handled that conversation - it was far from gentle - a lot of hurt - pain & tears. Look your W is hiding it from you because she recognises that it is wrong (believe it or not that's a relatively good thing in this scenario), the reaction you don't want to get, but might is if she knows you know about it, she says she doesn't care & that she will carry on seeing them whatever you think. Prepare yourself for the worst case scenario in these conversations.

But, I'm thinking that this has become a rather serious EA and if I can somehow get it out of hiding, at least she'll have to own up to it. I guess what I'm wondering is if I can get it out there and open, it would be a little more "real" to her I think and less of a special secret fantasy?

I can see your logic, but I doubt the outcome you are hoping for will be acheived. When people say detach and let go this is a prime example. You don't see it this way yet, but you are trying to figure out a way to control an uncontrolable situation. The only way you can make this a difficult decision for your W - is by becoming a man that she would be a fool to leave. Work on yourself, you can't afford to wallow anymore, you have to do positive things to create a positive state of mind for yourself. You can do it, look at it from another perspective. Lets say you don't stay together with your W - would you stay the way you are forever? No, you would pick yourself up & live a life that makes you happy. You have to do this now, if you do it now you have an outside chance of saving your M - but your motivation has to be for a better life & better happiness for you regardless of what happens - otherwise these changes won't last.

It would be a very difficult conversation, which is why I was trying to get ideas how to bring it to light in MC.

Seriously, why do you want to bring it up in MC? Would you want to be confronted on something like this in that environment? I know I wouldn't - if you want to save your M - you have to show your W that you will protect your R no matter how fragile it is now & that her feelings and happiness is important to you. Bringing this up in MC, does neither of these things & will make you look weak to your W.

Trust me, you don't want to do this

Bill

[ouroboros]

Sounds exactly how it unravelled for me too, I was told there was noone else & that it was all my fault & that she had felt unhappy for ages.
You can check out my 1st thread as to how I handled that conversation - it was far from gentle - a lot of hurt - pain & tears.

Oh man, I read your story and I empathize--this really is the club none wants to join.

Look your W is hiding it from you because she recognises that it is wrong (believe it or not that's a relatively good thing in this scenario),

That's one of the things I need help to understand. What's good about it?
I think there's definitely a shame factor--she's been very explicit about not letting ANY of our friends know about this. Which is why, separately, I'm motivated to let the cat out of the bag to the right person to let her get pressure from someone outside the M.

the reaction you don't want to get, but might is if she knows you know about it, she says she doesn't care & that she will carry on seeing them whatever you think. Prepare yourself for the worst case scenario in these conversations.

The thing that's different here for me-and what I'm trying to work through-is that I'm 99% sure that the OP dumped/spurned her.

Seriously, why do you want to bring it up in MC? Would you want to be confronted on something like this in that environment? I know I wouldn't - if you want to save your M - you have to show your W that you will protect your R no matter how fragile it is now & that her feelings and happiness is important to you. Bringing this up in MC, does neither of these things & will make you look weak to your W.

That's exactly my frustration--I do want to show her I'll protect our R--and her--to the ends of the earth. If I didnt think that OP dumped her, I don't think I'd be going down this road.

The reason for doing this in MC--and importantly, to do it in a way that was somehow indirect--is because it's the only time she's really been honest with me in about a year. It's a safe environment. We have no discussions about M or D outside of MC at this point, in part because of the DBing, but also I think because of her secrecy.

I definitely don't think it would be productive to just blurt out an accusation. So by indirect, I could ask in MC about getting a better understanding of "why now/what changed/what pushed you over the edge"? The closest thing she's given me as a reason for the D, "before one of us has an EA/PA."

I think that's W's code for "I'm having a EA/PA and I'll be ashamed if the kids and my friends find out that it was my cheating that caused our D". If the OP dumped her, and noone knows about her EA/PA, I guess I'm thinking that if she fesses up, it would be an act of trust on her part to maintain the secret between us.

Trust me, you don't want to do this

I know it sounds it, but I'm not disagreeing with you!
I'm REALLY trying to work this through.
I need help getting convinced that it would be a good idea to just ignore the whole EA/PA.
I need help on this because it SEEMS like I might be able to short-circuit her fantasy--and maybe the EA/PA--while still working on my detaching...

Man, this is wringing my soul.

[breakdownbill]

Hey

Just seen your reply and I'll try & answer a couple of things from your post.

That's one of the things I need help to understand. What's good about it?
I think there's definitely a shame factor--she's been very explicit about not letting ANY of our friends know about this. Which is why, separately, I'm motivated to let the cat out of the bag to the right person to let her get pressure from someone outside the M.

OK, firstly what's good about this situation is that your W recognizes that this is wrong & why she has hidden this. It might not seem like she is thinking of you, but if her actions became common knowledge, this would hurt your pride even further & damage your ego.

Secondly wanting to put pressure on your W, will not achieve anything except rash decisions on her part. You need to give her space to work out what she wants and stop trying to force something that isn't what she wants right now. Imagine this woman wasn't your W, and you were trying to get her to go out with you, do you think what you are doing right now would work? No, of course it wouldn't, plus you are old news to her right now & she thinks that you are the sole reason for her unhappiness.

What you need to do, is exactly what people are telling you to do, detach. Work on yourself, be happy and live your life to the full. She will notice, even if she doesn't say anything. Every positive 180 you can acheive, consistantly will give her reason to doubt herself. You need to make sure that you stop pressuring your W and make the interactions and time you spend together more relaxed, without any expectations of getting anything in return. You have to do all the leg work right now, and every day you need to get up & dust yourself off & keep up your changes.

About bringing up the EA/PA it's totally up to you, but if you are convinced it is over, what good of it will come from that situation. Peace of mind for yourself? There are other ways you can get passed all of this.

I think you need to get a list of mini goals, post them here & work on them & monitor your progress.

You have to start making positive changes now & stop pressuring or pursuing your wife. You need to buy time right now , space = time , pressure = get me out of here.

Don't be to down on yourself we are all going through something similar on here, you have to do this for yourself and on your own, but people on here will help you along the way.

Take care

Bill

[HollyAnn]

Sounds exactly how it unravelled for me too, I was told there was noone else & that it was all my fault & that she had felt unhappy for ages.
You can check out my 1st thread as to how I handled that conversation - it was far from gentle - a lot of hurt - pain & tears.

Oh man, I read your story and I empathize--this really is the club none wants to join.

Look your W is hiding it from you because she recognises that it is wrong (believe it or not that's a relatively good thing in this scenario),

That's one of the things I need help to understand. What's good about it?
I think there's definitely a shame factor--she's been very explicit about not letting ANY of our friends know about this. Which is why, separately, I'm motivated to let the cat out of the bag to the right person to let her get pressure from someone outside the M.

the reaction you don't want to get, but might is if she knows you know about it, she says she doesn't care & that she will carry on seeing them whatever you think. Prepare yourself for the worst case scenario in these conversations.

The thing that's different here for me-and what I'm trying to work through-is that I'm 99% sure that the OP dumped/spurned her.

Seriously, why do you want to bring it up in MC? Would you want to be confronted on something like this in that environment? I know I wouldn't - if you want to save your M - you have to show your W that you will protect your R no matter how fragile it is now & that her feelings and happiness is important to you. Bringing this up in MC, does neither of these things & will make you look weak to your W.

That's exactly my frustration--I do want to show her I'll protect our R--and her--to the ends of the earth. If I didnt think that OP dumped her, I don't think I'd be going down this road.

The reason for doing this in MC--and importantly, to do it in a way that was somehow indirect--is because it's the only time she's really been honest with me in about a year. It's a safe environment. We have no discussions about M or D outside of MC at this point, in part because of the DBing, but also I think because of her secrecy.

I definitely don't think it would be productive to just blurt out an accusation. So by indirect, I could ask in MC about getting a better understanding of "why now/what changed/what pushed you over the edge"? The closest thing she's given me as a reason for the D, "before one of us has an EA/PA."

I think that's W's code for "I'm having a EA/PA and I'll be ashamed if the kids and my friends find out that it was my cheating that caused our D". If the OP dumped her, and noone knows about her EA/PA, I guess I'm thinking that if she fesses up, it would be an act of trust on her part to maintain the secret between us.

Trust me, you don't want to do this

I know it sounds it, but I'm not disagreeing with you!
I'm REALLY trying to work this through.
I need help getting convinced that it would be a good idea to just ignore the whole EA/PA.
I need help on this because it SEEMS like I might be able to short-circuit her fantasy--and maybe the EA/PA--while still working on my detaching...

Man, this is wringing my soul.

I know. So many of us have been there.
Detach, drop the rope, let her flail and feel consequences.
Do not get into The Friend Zone with her. You are her HUSBAND, not her GIRLFRIEND. Do not take the WAW script and/or spew to heart. Water off a duck's back.
I don't see anything "wrong" with bringing up possible infidelity in MC; as long as you do it in such a way as stating a boundary: "I'm just not the type of man who would ever share his W with another man..."
You can state that as a boundary without confrontation. It is a fact, right? Just state your fact and shut up. No lectures, no expanding. Short, declarative statements come across as strengths.
She wants out? Show her the door and wish her well. Do not try to cling; it is weak, and we like strong men. We have no respect for neediness.
Don't beg her to stay, let her feel the loss of you by her own hand.
Hang in there.